2025 Summer League

[KGdaBom]

Call me crazy but in my eyes Zikarsy is an equally interesting project as Maluach.

OK I'll call you crazy if you want me to. Interesting thought.

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This talk of Rocco over Joan is just going to look foolish.

[KGdaBom]

A1FromDay1's nickname for Beringer of Berricade is getting my full support, but let's make it The Berricade a la The Glove and The Mailman.

[jpatrick]

OK I'll call you crazy if you want me to. Interesting thought.

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This talk of Rocco over Joan is just going to look foolish.

Rocco is way way behind Beringer. People have to realize that Beringer was the best shot blocker in a fairly high level Euro league. To Rocco couldn’t get on the court in Australia, which is much lesser competition. Doesn’t mean Rocco can’t be an NBA player, Will just take time.

Yang and Beringer are so different. Yang is my favorite guy in this summer league, so I will say nothing negative about him. That said, Beringer is 1.5 years younger than Yang. He’s just got so much upside. He will never be an offensive hub, even on a second unit, but he legit could be DPOY if he hits his highest upside. And I think he will get Dillingham treatment his year. Playing backup minutes in games Gobert sits.

[TimberKat]

OK I'll call you crazy if you want me to. Interesting thought.

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This talk of Rocco over Joan is just going to look foolish.

At peak Joan is likely better but short term Rocco looks more like a basketball player and it's difficult to teach height.

[KGdaBom]

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This talk of Rocco over Joan is just going to look foolish.

At peak Joan is likely better but short term Rocco looks more like a basketball player and it's difficult to teach height.

We disagree. To me The Berricade looks more like a basketball player. Less confused compared to Rocco. More confident.

[BlacJacMac]

Call me crazy but in my eyes Zikarsy is an equally interesting project as Maluach.

OK I'll call you crazy if you want me to. Interesting thought.

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I don't see that at all.

I thought Beringer controlled the game when he was in yesterday. He didn't have the blocks, but Denver was clearly avoiding anything at or near the basket when he was in there. He was disruptive on defense and he bought the Wolves plenty of extra possessions on offense.

I thought Rocco was frequently out of position and was getting by on size alone.

Yang is super fun, but his conditioning is very poor right now. He has to get in much better shape. Joan would run him off the floor.

I absolutely love Yang's passing, vision and feel for the game. Its way more advanced than I thought it would be. But who is he going to guard? I think his IQ and understanding will help him guard slow bigs, but he seems like he has very stiff hips and very little bend.

[Nick K]

TSJ is definitely an NBA rotational player. Step down from NAW for this upcoming year? Yes. But longterm a similar player.

I think we sign a backup PG after summer league. Dilly was better today, especially the first quarter. But still doesn’t run the offense that well and, more importantly, is an absolute sieve defensively. I don’t see Finch giving such a net negative minutes consistently.

I was hoping that Clark would be more consistent with his shot. Had not through two games. If he hits that, had a shot to be our Dort. If he doesn’t, he won’t play.

I think Beringer is just a winning player. It’s going to take a couple years, but he’s a really smart defensive player. He also is smart offensively, not a ton of skills, but seems to play the right way. Also, he seems to catch everything. Great hands. Missed a dunk but caught some tough passes. They should have looked for him more.

The rest, including Miller, not NBA players. Rocco has a chance but that’s several years away.

" Step down from NAW for this upcoming year? Yes."

NO. Maybe a bit defensively but he more than makes up for it with his ability to drive to the basket. I was a big NAW fan since the Culver draft. I wanted to take NAW at #11 before the trade. JSJr will be the much better player.

[Nick K]

OK I'll call you crazy if you want me to. Interesting thought.

Watched the second game and Joan reminds me of some random athletic guys playing a pickup game. Zikarsy seems to have more basketball footwork. I won't be surprised he is ready to take a few NBA backup minutes before Joan. After two games, I see Yang is ahead of Joan.

I don't see that at all.

I thought Beringer controlled the game when he was in yesterday. He didn't have the blocks, but Denver was clearly avoiding anything at or near the basket when he was in there. He was disruptive on defense and he bought the Wolves plenty of extra possessions on offense.

I thought Rocco was frequently out of position and was getting by on size alone.

Yang is super fun, but his conditioning is very poor right now. He has to get in much better shape. Joan would run him off the floor.

I absolutely love Yang's passing, vision and feel for the game. Its way more advanced than I thought it would be. But who is he going to guard? I think his IQ and understanding will help him guard slow bigs, but he seems like he has very stiff hips and very little bend.

I agree with every word of this. I could have wrote this but not as good.

[dschroeder01]

Seems like the Hansen Yang talk is really focusing on the clips of a few slick passes. They are surely nice, but his 8 assists are balanced by 8 TOs. He has 9 rebounds in 50 minutes. His 20 total points includes his only 3 that he banked in. Nothing about his mobility suggests he'll be able to defend anything at a pro level.

I'm skeptical of guys whose best attribute is passing when they don't have the other skills to leverage it. I'm way more willing to project a guy like Beringer who has shown flashes, but has the physical tools for the real thing as opposed to someone like Yang who has also shown flashes, but needs to prove his skill transcends his lack of physical tools.

[KGdaBom]

Seems like the Hansen Yang talk is really focusing on the clips of a few slick passes. They are surely nice, but his 8 assists are balanced by 8 TOs. He has 9 rebounds in 50 minutes. His 20 total points includes his only 3 that he banked in. Nothing about his mobility suggests he'll be able to defend anything at a pro level.

I'm skeptical of guys whose best attribute is passing when they don't have the other skills to leverage it. I'm way more willing to project a guy like Beringer who has shown flashes, but has the physical tools for the real thing as opposed to someone like Yang who has also shown flashes, but needs to prove his skill transcends his lack of physical tools.

I'm with you. I might trade them The Berricade for Yang if they included next years first round pick.

[winforlose]

TSJ is definitely an NBA rotational player. Step down from NAW for this upcoming year? Yes. But longterm a similar player.

I think we sign a backup PG after summer league. Dilly was better today, especially the first quarter. But still doesn’t run the offense that well and, more importantly, is an absolute sieve defensively. I don’t see Finch giving such a net negative minutes consistently.

I was hoping that Clark would be more consistent with his shot. Had not through two games. If he hits that, had a shot to be our Dort. If he doesn’t, he won’t play.

I think Beringer is just a winning player. It’s going to take a couple years, but he’s a really smart defensive player. He also is smart offensively, not a ton of skills, but seems to play the right way. Also, he seems to catch everything. Great hands. Missed a dunk but caught some tough passes. They should have looked for him more.

The rest, including Miller, not NBA players. Rocco has a chance but that’s several years away.

Not sure step down from NAW is the way I would put it. They have different strengths and weaknesses with different ways to contribute. TSJ will be a bit of a step down defensively, and is a little less willing/able to get up volume 3 point shooting. But TSJ adds a level of quickness in transition and foul drawing that NAW lacked. He also is more attacked focused offensive player, which allows kick outs to shooters like DDV, Conley, Ant, and sometimes Randle. I see TSJ as a guy who will likely get better as the season progresses. Give him most of NAW’s minutes, give the rest to DDV, and good things should happen.

Clark is more Josh Okogie than Lou Dort. Dort uses strength and physicality whereas JO/Clark use speed and hands to disrupt. Clark will be up and down offensively throughout his career, but his lack of guard skills force him to play the SF offensively, like NAW. I fear that Clark will likely be a 9th man type more than a Dort/Caruso fringe starter type, but time will tell.

JB needs minutes from day 1. Give that kid 10-14 per game and by seasons end either he hits the rookie wall or he will be much improved. Either way, it will speed up his development for next season, and seemingly offers us some extra opportunities this season.

[BlacJacMac]

Seems like the Hansen Yang talk is really focusing on the clips of a few slick passes. They are surely nice, but his 8 assists are balanced by 8 TOs. He has 9 rebounds in 50 minutes. His 20 total points includes his only 3 that he banked in. Nothing about his mobility suggests he'll be able to defend anything at a pro level.

I'm skeptical of guys whose best attribute is passing when they don't have the other skills to leverage it. I'm way more willing to project a guy like Beringer who has shown flashes, but has the physical tools for the real thing as opposed to someone like Yang who has also shown flashes, but needs to prove his skill transcends his lack of physical tools.

I'm with you. I might trade them The Berricade for Yang if they included next years first round pick.

Not me.

I think Beringer is going to be the guy people talk about how they missed on him for years. I see Yang as a guy who runs a 2nd unit, but I'm not sure he'll move the needle.

[KGdaBom]

Seems like the Hansen Yang talk is really focusing on the clips of a few slick passes. They are surely nice, but his 8 assists are balanced by 8 TOs. He has 9 rebounds in 50 minutes. His 20 total points includes his only 3 that he banked in. Nothing about his mobility suggests he'll be able to defend anything at a pro level.

I'm skeptical of guys whose best attribute is passing when they don't have the other skills to leverage it. I'm way more willing to project a guy like Beringer who has shown flashes, but has the physical tools for the real thing as opposed to someone like Yang who has also shown flashes, but needs to prove his skill transcends his lack of physical tools.

I'm with you. I might trade them The Berricade for Yang if they included next years first round pick.

Not me.

I think Beringer is going to be the guy people talk about how they missed on him for years. I see Yang as a guy who runs a 2nd unit, but I'm not sure he'll move the needle.

I said might. Shouldn't the TrailBlazers be lottery next year? The pick would have to be unprotected. Isn't it supposed to be a stacked draft. I'd have to look at Yang's upside a bit more.

[winforlose]

I'm with you. I might trade them The Berricade for Yang if they included next years first round pick.

Not me.

I think Beringer is going to be the guy people talk about how they missed on him for years. I see Yang as a guy who runs a 2nd unit, but I'm not sure he'll move the needle.

I said might. Shouldn't the TrailBlazers be lottery next year? The pick would have to be unprotected. Isn't it supposed to be a stacked draft. I'd have to look at Yang's upside a bit more.

They already have Don Clingan, I doubt they would part with a first in a stacked draft to further improve their backup C. Especially when both players are rookies.

[KGdaBom]

Not me.

I think Beringer is going to be the guy people talk about how they missed on him for years. I see Yang as a guy who runs a 2nd unit, but I'm not sure he'll move the needle.

I said might. Shouldn't the TrailBlazers be lottery next year? The pick would have to be unprotected. Isn't it supposed to be a stacked draft. I'd have to look at Yang's upside a bit more.

They already have Don Clingan, I doubt they would part with a first in a stacked draft to further improve their backup C. Especially when both players are rookies.

I'm not saying what the TrailBlazers would do. I'm just declaring my feelings. Yang was selected one pick before The Berricade. I "might" trade Joan for Yang if Portland would include their unprotected #1 pick in the next draft and I don't even know if I would.

[minimus]

Why Fleming is not playing?

[BlacJacMac]

Why Fleming is not playing?

"right knee soreness"

[dschroeder01]

JB needs minutes from day 1. Give that kid 10-14 per game and by seasons end either he hits the rookie wall or he will be much improved. Either way, it will speed up his development for next season, and seemingly offers us some extra opportunities this season.

The question that should always be asked in this situation is where do those minutes come from? Outside of injury and the rare minutes for Minott, last year's big rotation was Randle (32mpg), Gobert (33), and Naz (27) almost exclusively. Naz already feels like he deserves more minutes (likely true) so cutting that 10-14 from Randle and Rudy has all 3 of Rudy, Randle, and Naz as playing less than 30 mpg. We already have to be considering how we're going to deal with playing 10 after playing 8 last year and Joan would be 11.

I 'm super impressed with the Barricade, but history says that rookies aren't good at helping you win games. Ant is awesome and even he didn't help win games as a rookie. He actively hurt us in games back then as most rookies do. It's really rare for rookies to make a winning impact surely even moreso for an 18 yo newer to the game. This team is now about winning games first and foremost and the margins are too close in these games to punt a few away in the name of development.

Of course if he's really actually good then you have to play him, but this can't be like how everyone wanted Dillingham to play last year even though the team was clearly worse overall when he was out there almost every night. You can develop players different ways. It's ok to set a standard that you have to actually do the right things before you get minutes. People complain that Shannon should have played more last year, but I honestly think it's going to be better for him long term that he had to wait. He learned that he has to be locked in on D all the time. He saw how important a reliable shot is to success. Any success he has this year will be coming from a place where he had to earn it and shaping a mindset like that is valuable.

Unless Beringer is the 1 in 100 that actually is good as a young rookie, I have no problem letting him learn by watching the vets, developing his body and skills, and even getting some time in Iowa.

[winforlose]

JB needs minutes from day 1. Give that kid 10-14 per game and by seasons end either he hits the rookie wall or he will be much improved. Either way, it will speed up his development for next season, and seemingly offers us some extra opportunities this season.

The question that should always be asked in this situation is where do those minutes come from? Outside of injury and the rare minutes for Minott, last year's big rotation was Randle (32mpg), Gobert (33), and Naz (27) almost exclusively. Naz already feels like he deserves more minutes (likely true) so cutting that 10-14 from Randle and Rudy has all 3 of Rudy, Randle, and Naz as playing less than 30 mpg. We already have to be considering how we're going to deal with playing 10 after playing 8 last year and Joan would be 11.

I 'm super impressed with the Barricade, but history says that rookies aren't good at helping you win games. Ant is awesome and even he didn't help win games as a rookie. He actively hurt us in games back then as most rookies do. It's really rare for rookies to make a winning impact surely even moreso for an 18 yo newer to the game. This team is now about winning games first and foremost and the margins are too close in these games to punt a few away in the name of development.

Of course if he's really actually good then you have to play him, but this can't be like how everyone wanted Dillingham to play last year even though the team was clearly worse overall when he was out there almost every night. You can develop players different ways. It's ok to set a standard that you have to actually do the right things before you get minutes. People complain that Shannon should have played more last year, but I honestly think it's going to be better for him long term that he had to wait. He learned that he has to be locked in on D all the time. He saw how important a reliable shot is to success. Any success he has this year will be coming from a place where he had to earn it and shaping a mindset like that is valuable.

Unless Beringer is the 1 in 100 that actually is good as a young rookie, I have no problem letting him learn by watching the vets, developing his body and skills, and even getting some time in Iowa.

I talked about this in a different thread. Quoting myself “Playing Joan means less minutes available for Randle and Naz, but I would do it anyway. Joan needs them, seems ready for them, and can give you something that Randle and Naz cannot. I think that means Jaden won’t play any at the 4, and might actually play some SG (Ant or DDV at PG, Naz at SF, Randle at PF, Rudy at C.) I think TSJ is clearly making a case to absorb the majority of NAW’s minutes, and Dilly will share the backup PG with DDV.”

The answer is he will take a little bit from everyone. Last season we ran an 8 man rotation, this season we will run a 9 or 10. TSJ is #8, Joan #9, Dilly #10. Joan as a backup C doesn’t need to contribute much outside of rebounding, some basic rim protection, and the occasional putback. Backup C is one of if not the easiest positions to play because so little is expected of you.

[KGdaBom]

Why Fleming is not playing?

"right knee soreness"

Right knee soreness can lead to General Soreness