GT: 7/13 | Summer League | Raptors Vs Magic | 6EST | SN 360

[GLF]

I disagree on the bold-ed part. At the start of last season, Gradey did demonstrate this capability. This entirely based on me simply watching games, but there was a stretch of about 20 games at the start of last season where he was demonstrating this capability. I also felt through the course of last year, he was highly disrespected by the refs, which further hurt his non-three point shooting stats.

All subjective based on what I observed watching the games, but I don't think it is accurate to say he didn't demonstrate a more fulsome offensive game than Battle has, or to say that he was quite bad in this regard.

Dick certainly showed he can take shots, but he didn't really show he can make those shots.

I assume you are referring to the first 18 or so games before he got hurt. In those games he averaged 18ppg on .417/.342 splits (55.6TS%). His 3 point shooting was still fairly underwhelming. So yeah, it still is all theoretical at this point.


I hope he figures it out but I fear he is a guy who is just never gonna be a massive impact guy. Even if he gets his 3 point efficiency up, he has been such a target defensively that it limits his ability to play big minutes. His next contract is likely going to more strongly reflect his base box score #'s than his actual impact as well IMO

Dick is taking the most difficult 3pa of anyone on the team outside of IQ. His off-screen frequency is higher than Battle’s and he’s taking almost 65% of his 3pa from above the break. Battle is at sub 50% on his ATB frequency.

Battle has better 3pt shooting stats than Dick but he is unquestionably taking easier 3’s. Overall it’s tough to parse out who is really better. Wide open stats and c&s stats don’t tell the whole story as a player shooting off a screen (which Dick does more often and from more difficult areas on the floor) is lumped in with a standstill c&s (which Battle does more often).

I don’t know who the better shooter is but we know for a fact that Battle is getting easier shots.

Thank you. This was all I was trying to say. But I don’t believe Battle is a scrub. Love his game and happy we have both on our team. I will leave the back and forth to y’all lol

[MEDIC]

I like Battle because he knows his role and does it well. Opens 3s, pick and pops. Doesn't try to do too much or take shots that he can't make. There will be a role for him if he keeps shooting 3s at that kind of clip.

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

[bobbyp3588]

Why do people think Grady's minutes are linked to his defense? Is Ingram's? No. We added a bunch of cheap defensive players for a reason.

We need the offense.

Hmmm…. Nope. That’s not right at all. You can’t compare Dick to BI offensively. Dick is much more limited and the best you’ll ever hear spoken about his D is that he tries.

I’d argue we need net positive players more than scorers who give up as much or more than they get.

BI's a slightly taller, less athletic...more expensive version of the same thing. Just on a different time line.

Again…. Nope. BI is much better at literally every facet of the game. They’re not even similar.


I’ll give you Gradey being Jason Kapono on a different time line, sure.

[MEDIC]

Why do people think Grady's minutes are linked to his defense? Is Ingram's? No. We added a bunch of cheap defensive players for a reason.

We need the offense.

Hmmm…. Nope. That’s not right at all. You can’t compare Dick to BI offensively. Dick is much more limited and the best you’ll ever hear spoken about his D is that he tries.

I’d argue we need net positive players more than scorers who give up as much or more than they get.

BI's a slightly taller, less athletic...more expensive version of the same thing. Just on a different time line.

Man.......I pray that you are somehow correct on this one.

Gradey Dick......the next Brandon Ingram.

[tsherkin]

Man.......I pray that you are somehow correct on this one.

Gradey Dick......the next Brandon Ingram.

That'd be fairly sweet. A healthier, somewhat shorter Brandon Ingram would be an awesome turn-out for Gradey.

[OakleyDokely]

Gradey was projected as a shooter coming out of college, probably partly due to the fact he was white and he took 3s, but he's not really that guy. His game is more about slashing, finishing around the rim, playmaking. A lot of movement to his game. I think he will eventually figure it out offensively, because he isn't scared to attack or shoot, which is half the battle. But if he wants to be more than just a rotation guy, he needs to figure it out defensively. He doesn't have to be good on that end, but he can't be one of the worst in the NBA. To play important minutes in important games, you can't be a pylon.

[DAcReator]

Gradey was projected as a shooter coming out of college, probably partly due to the fact he was white and he took 3s, but he's not really that guy. His game is more about slashing, finishing around the rim, playmaking. A lot of movement to his game. I think he will eventually figure it out offensively, because he isn't scared to attack or shoot, which is half the battle. But if he wants to be more than just a rotation guy, he needs to figure it out defensively. He doesn't have to be good on that end, but he can't be one of the worst in the NBA. To play in important minutes in important games, you can't be a pylon.

Here's the question. If his offense evolves into that slasher/scoring beset-case potential, and the defense becomes 'sub-par' but not the worst.... is his ceiling Monte Ellis? If thats the case, than he cannot be a starter on a serious contending team - as the warriors eventually figured out.
Now hell never be as ball dominant and egotistical as Monte and will also have a better off-ball game. But the warriors were only able to hide 1 defensive liability and that was a generational offensive talent in Steph Curry. Grady's offense will never be worth compensating for a Steph/Monte-level of defense.
Maybe i'm wrong, but im just trying to understand his best-case potential with a contending team at this point.

[Tripod]

I like Battle because he knows his role and does it well. Opens 3s, pick and pops. Doesn't try to do too much or take shots that he can't make. There will be a role for him if he keeps shooting 3s at that kind of clip.

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

[DreamTeam09]

I like Battle because he knows his role and does it well. Opens 3s, pick and pops. Doesn't try to do too much or take shots that he can't make. There will be a role for him if he keeps shooting 3s at that kind of clip.

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

Clearly ppl arent valuing movement shooters & don't understand the gravity they bring. Teams literally have GD in the scouting report telling the primary defender on him to not lose him at all, follow him around which brings gravity to our whole unit and offense. Battle and Ochai are stationary shooters so I expect their %s to be higher but gradey brings so much to our team/offense other than just spot up shooting. We don't ask battle or Ochai to come off pin downs, or curls, which opens up the offense because teams are focused on chasing GD around

[mtcan]

Watch on YouTube

I LOVE this interview with Ulrich. Clearly he hasn't done a lot of media and you can tell they literally plucked him off a farm and gave him a basketball because he has zero media training.

Great kid. Speaks from the heart. Very endearing to listen to.

This Kawhi-level of unintentionally funny.

I really wish the best for him.

[Buff]

I like Battle because he knows his role and does it well. Opens 3s, pick and pops. Doesn't try to do too much or take shots that he can't make. There will be a role for him if he keeps shooting 3s at that kind of clip.

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

RGM: he has to work on his shooting
Player performs poorly at shooting
RGM: Fcking scrub!

[bballsparkin]

Here's the question. If his offense evolves into that slasher/scoring beset-case potential, and the defense becomes 'sub-par' but not the worst.... is his ceiling Monte Ellis? If thats the case, than he cannot be a starter on a serious contending team - as the warriors eventually figured out.
Now hell never be as ball dominant and egotistical as Monte and will also have a better off-ball game. But the warriors were only able to hide 1 defensive liability and that was a generational offensive talent in Steph Curry. Grady's offense will never be worth compensating for a Steph/Monte-level of defense.
Maybe i'm wrong, but im just trying to understand his best-case potential with a contending team at this point.

GSW got back Bogut and Stephen Jackson. Bogut went on to be voted top 10 and then top 6 in DPOY votes and helped them win a tital. If Gradey doesn't figure it out defensively but puts together some pretty decent offence he'll be a valuable trade chip potentially.

[GLF]

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

Clearly ppl arent valuing movement shooters & don't understand the gravity they bring. Teams literally have GD in the scouting report telling the primary defender on him to not lose him at all, follow him around which brings gravity to our whole unit and offense. Battle and Ochai are stationary shooters so I expect their %s to be higher but gradey brings so much to our team/offense other than just spot up shooting. We don't ask battle or Ochai to come off pin downs, or curls, which opens up the offense because teams are focused on chasing GD around

Exactly. And again stats were being used without context. Not all C&S shots are the same. If one player is just stationary and just has to catch the ball and shoot it that’s a lot easier and a lot different than a player like Gradey running around the entire court for a possession to come off a screen off of movement and then catching and shooting. One is much tougher and brings A LOT more gravity than the other. Which is why he has crazy gravity even though he shoots it at 35% or whatever. I believe we are plus 10 offensively with Gradey on the floor even if he isn’t hitting shots because of that gravity he provides to everyone else. I think that’s the highest on the team not named Jakob. The type of 3’s Battle and Ochai take are much easier to guard and much easier to eliminate by good defensive teams. It’s why movement shooting is so important. Gradey just has to improve at hitting these movement 3s he takes. But let’s not get it confused. The playoffs is where you see how much a movement shooter is needed over just a stand still shooter. Really good defences know how to guard that. And if youn run Battle off the line he’s not doing much of anything. And I don’t want to **** on Battle bc I love him as I’ve said many times, but he’s not better than Gradey and he doesn’t impact the team more than Gradey offensively. That’s all I’m saying

[S.W.A.N]

This is exactly it. Master Your role. Become elite at it.

Someone might be more skilled than you in various aspects of the game, but if they don't master those skills or become elite at them, they aren't all that valuable at an NBA level.

I would rather have a role player that is elite at a few important skills, than a player who is average at most skills & master of none.

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

Clearly ppl aren't valuing movement shooters & don't understand the gravity they bring. Teams literally have GD in the scouting report telling the primary defender on him to not lose him at all, follow him around which brings gravity to our whole unit and offense. Battle and Ochai are stationary shooters so I expect their %s to be higher but gradey brings so much to our team/offense other than just spot up shooting. We don't ask battle or Ochai to come off pin downs, or curls, which opens up the offense because teams are focused on chasing GD around

Yup we need to have more people comprehend the difference between a good shooter and a good movement shooter.

Dick and Battle shouldn't be in the same conversation. Maybe one day Battle will add movement into his bag, but right now they are leagues apart in how valuable they are to the team.

Players like Ochai who have a decent defensive skillset to go with the static shooting aka 3 and D have tremendous value, but you still need offense creators and guys that bend and change defenses.

Obviously Dick needs to get stronger and defend to be playable in playoffs but he has one of the highest upsides offensively on this team by far. If he can keep improving his whole game the way he did last year while returning to rookie percentages on the higher usg% he'll be a real weapon.

My biggest things I want to see is improved defense, rebounding, passing, shooting... In that order. I think with BI in the lineup his degree of difficulty on shots should go down so there should be a natural increase in percentage as he gets more open and uncontested shots. 18 5 and 3 on 0.600 TS is a realistc goal for next year.

[Tripod]

But that's not Dick's fault. He was ASKED to run around like crazy, around screens and take more contested shots. He was asked to do that for his development. And that's the right thing to do in a rebuilding season for a 2nd year player.

I think we are going to see a lot less experimenting next year and see them focus more on what works.

Clearly ppl aren't valuing movement shooters & don't understand the gravity they bring. Teams literally have GD in the scouting report telling the primary defender on him to not lose him at all, follow him around which brings gravity to our whole unit and offense. Battle and Ochai are stationary shooters so I expect their %s to be higher but gradey brings so much to our team/offense other than just spot up shooting. We don't ask battle or Ochai to come off pin downs, or curls, which opens up the offense because teams are focused on chasing GD around

Yup we need to have more people comprehend the difference between a good shooter and a good movement shooter.

Dick and Battle shouldn't be in the same conversation. Maybe one day Battle will add movement into his bag, but right now they are leagues apart in how valuable they are to the team.

Players like Ochai who have a decent defensive skillset to go with the static shooting aka 3 and D have tremendous value, but you still need offense creators and guys that bend and change defenses.

Obviously Dick needs to get stronger and defend to be playable in playoffs but he has one of the highest upsides offensively on this team by far. If he can keep improving his whole game the way he did last year while returning to rookie percentages on the higher usg% he'll be a real weapon.

My biggest things I want to see is improved defense, rebounding, passing, shooting... In that order. I think with BI in the lineup his degree of difficulty on shots should go down so there should be a natural increase in percentage as he gets more open and uncontested shots. 18 5 and 3 on 0.600 TS is a realistc goal for next year.

I think the pt total is unrealistic just due to how deep the team is.

There is only 2 ball and while we lack a superstar scorer, he have 4 starters who could average 20 pts between them. Then 15 from Yak. Etc...

There is going to be a bit of canabolism of points this year but if guys understand that, remain unselfish, and win lots, then who cares who scores.

I think for Gradey, if his efficiency gets better as well as better defense, that's a great step to make.

[S.W.A.N]

Clearly ppl aren't valuing movement shooters & don't understand the gravity they bring. Teams literally have GD in the scouting report telling the primary defender on him to not lose him at all, follow him around which brings gravity to our whole unit and offense. Battle and Ochai are stationary shooters so I expect their %s to be higher but gradey brings so much to our team/offense other than just spot up shooting. We don't ask battle or Ochai to come off pin downs, or curls, which opens up the offense because teams are focused on chasing GD around

Yup we need to have more people comprehend the difference between a good shooter and a good movement shooter.

Dick and Battle shouldn't be in the same conversation. Maybe one day Battle will add movement into his bag, but right now they are leagues apart in how valuable they are to the team.

Players like Ochai who have a decent defensive skillset to go with the static shooting aka 3 and D have tremendous value, but you still need offense creators and guys that bend and change defenses.

Obviously Dick needs to get stronger and defend to be playable in playoffs but he has one of the highest upsides offensively on this team by far. If he can keep improving his whole game the way he did last year while returning to rookie percentages on the higher usg% he'll be a real weapon.

My biggest things I want to see is improved defense, rebounding, passing, shooting... In that order. I think with BI in the lineup his degree of difficulty on shots should go down so there should be a natural increase in percentage as he gets more open and uncontested shots. 18 5 and 3 on 0.600 TS is a realistc goal for next year.

I think the pt total is unrealistic just due to how deep the team is.

There is only 2 ball and while we lack a superstar scorer, he have 4 starters who could average 20 pts between them. Then 15 from Yak. Etc...

There is going to be a bit of canabolism of points this year but if guys understand that, remain unselfish, and win lots, then who cares who scores.

I think for Gradey, if his efficiency gets better as well as better defense, that's a great step to make.

That's fair. I can see his minutes per game dropping until a big trade happens

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Hmmm…. Nope. That’s not right at all. You can’t compare Dick to BI offensively. Dick is much more limited and the best you’ll ever hear spoken about his D is that he tries.

I’d argue we need net positive players more than scorers who give up as much or more than they get.

BI's a slightly taller, less athletic...more expensive version of the same thing. Just on a different time line.

Man.......I pray that you are somehow correct on this one.

Gradey Dick......the next Brandon Ingram.

Dick's not 190lbs-ish like Ingram. He should be more durable. Ingram's a walking skeleton.

[causal_fan]

Watch on YouTube

I LOVE this interview with Ulrich. Clearly he hasn't done a lot of media and you can tell they literally plucked him off a farm and gave him a basketball because he has zero media training.

Great kid. Speaks from the heart. Very endearing to listen to.

This Kawhi-level of unintentionally funny.

I really wish the best for him.

Chomche is endearing and easy to root for - hope he makes it eventually to a Raptors rotation player. That head coach was embarrassing, just a terrible presser IMO, he said nothing of consequence and was terrible in his presentation.

[Boogie!]

Why do people think Grady's minutes are linked to his defense? Is Ingram's? No. We added a bunch of cheap defensive players for a reason.

We need the offense.

Hmmm…. Nope. That’s not right at all. You can’t compare Dick to BI offensively. Dick is much more limited and the best you’ll ever hear spoken about his D is that he tries.

I’d argue we need net positive players more than scorers who give up as much or more than they get.

BI's a slightly taller, less athletic...more expensive version of the same thing. Just on a different time line.

What the ****

[Boogie!]

BI's a slightly taller, less athletic...more expensive version of the same thing. Just on a different time line.

Man.......I pray that you are somehow correct on this one.

Gradey Dick......the next Brandon Ingram.

Dick's not 190lbs-ish like Ingram. He should be more durable. Ingram's a walking skeleton.

What the ****