2025 Vegas Summer League Game 2: Toronto Raptors (1-0) vs. Orlando Magic (0-1) - 6pm

[Knightro]

what? rookie PG with 1 year of college experience not ready to be full time PG? I think you guys expect an awful lot from a #25 pick.

Not really, man. I don't have any expectations on what he should or shouldn't early be in his career. Simply pointing out what I've see out of him from a role perspective both in college and so far in the summer.

Izzo didn't really use him as an on-ball point guard in college and so far the Magic are not really using him as an on-ball point guard so far in the summer league either. In both instances, he's really been used like a shooting guard.

Somebody like Jeremiah Fears isn't ready to play winning NBA basketball either and is going to struggle a lot this season, but he's clearly being used as a point guard and the Pelicans are just accepting there will be major struggles along the way because he's so inexperienced.

[tiderulz]

what? rookie PG with 1 year of college experience not ready to be full time PG? I think you guys expect an awful lot from a #25 pick.

Not really, man. I don't have any expectations on what he should or shouldn't early be in his career. Simply pointing out what I've see out of him from a role perspective both in college and so far in the summer.

Izzo didn't really use him as an on-ball point guard in college and so far the Magic are not really using him as an on-ball point guard so far in the summer league either. In both instances, he's really been used like a shooting guard.

Somebody like Jeremiah Fears isn't ready to play winning NBA basketball either and is going to struggle a lot this season, but he's clearly being used as a point guard and the Pelicans are just accepting there will be major struggles along the way because he's so inexperienced.

which is fair. i just saw you say he is far from being a fulltime starting PG, and most PG's are that way

[Knightro]

Jase’s game is trending toward scoring and secondary creation, while Anthony Black holds the stronger playmaking upside thanks to his size, vision, and advanced court awareness. AB is positioning himself to challenge for Suggs’ spot in the starting lineup, while Jase looks poised to compete for a sixth man role. Different players, different trajectories.

Your thoughts on Black are - as always - loaded with a level of optimism that isn't particularly appropriate given what he's shown thus far in two NBA seasons.

But who am I to tell you how to judge these things

[Knightro]

which is fair. i just saw you say he is far from being a fulltime starting PG, and most PG's are that way

That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying he's not really even being used a point guard/on-ball player at all right now.

If they stuck Jase on the ball and said "initiate ball screens and figure it out" - he would struggle at that very badly because 99.9% of teenage guards aren't ready to step into the NBA and do that at a high level.

But it's really not about how good or bad Jase would be at doing something.

It's more about what the organization envisions with the guy and THUS FAR (this could change), it appears the Magic are content developing him as an off-ball player more than an on-ball player.

[eyriq]

Jase’s game is trending toward scoring and secondary creation, while Anthony Black holds the stronger playmaking upside thanks to his size, vision, and advanced court awareness. AB is positioning himself to challenge for Suggs’ spot in the starting lineup, while Jase looks poised to compete for a sixth man role. Different players, different trajectories.

Your thoughts on Black are - as always - loaded with a level of optimism that isn't particularly appropriate given what he's shown thus far in two NBA seasons.

But who am I to tell you how to judge these things

The optimism comes from AB’s proven role as a point guard, both in college and the NBA. He’s consistently been asked to initiate offense, run sets, and make reads as a primary decision-maker. His playmaking is not a projection, it’s already been tested at high levels.

The scoring still has to come along, no doubt. But in terms of passing vision, tempo control, and defensive versatility, he’s clearly ahead of Jase, who’s tracking more as a combo guard than a true lead.

I just want to keep the record straight. Everyone's calling Jase a point guard because he's small when AB is the one with the playmaking chops.

[Knightro]

The optimism comes from AB’s proven role as a point guard, both in college and the NBA. He’s consistently been asked to initiate offense, run sets, and make reads as a primary decision-maker. His playmaking is not a projection, it’s already been tested at high levels.

The scoring still has to come along, no doubt. But in terms of passing vision, tempo control, and defensive versatility, he’s clearly ahead of Jase, who’s tracking more as a combo guard than a true lead.

Yeah, except none of this is actually true to the levels you're claiming.

But you do you.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Jase’s game is trending toward scoring and secondary creation, while Anthony Black holds the stronger playmaking upside thanks to his size, vision, and advanced court awareness. AB is positioning himself to challenge for Suggs’ spot in the starting lineup, while Jase looks poised to compete for a sixth man role. Different players, different trajectories.

Your thoughts on Black are - as always - loaded with a level of optimism that isn't particularly appropriate given what he's shown thus far in two NBA seasons.

But who am I to tell you how to judge these things

The optimism comes from AB’s proven role as a point guard, both in college and the NBA. He’s consistently been asked to initiate offense, run sets, and make reads as a primary decision-maker. His playmaking is not a projection, it’s already been tested at high levels.

The scoring still has to come along, no doubt. But in terms of passing vision, tempo control, and defensive versatility, he’s clearly ahead of Jase, who’s tracking more as a combo guard than a true lead.

I just want to keep the record straight. Everyone's calling Jase a point guard because he's small when AB is the one with the playmaking chops.

no one is calling Jase a PG, he's a small SG who has some playmaking abilities in making the right/next pass and not being a negative on the ball.

[Magic_Johnny12]

This is not really a knock on Jase because he's been REALLY GOOD at what they've asked him to do, but he really does appear to a 6'1" shooting guard right now.

And look, if he can score efficiently and not turn the ball over, there's a ton of value there no matter how tall/short you are.

But two games in, the Magic are using him a lot more like Michigan State used him. A lot of pindowns, a lot of zoom actions, a lot of dribble handoffs, they're making a concerted effort to get him the ball when he's already on the move to help make up for his lack of explosiveness/creating separation off the dribble.

I think he's pretty far off from being able to be a full time point guard at the NBA level, but the early returns on his ability to be efficient offensively, both as a scorer and a ball protector, are very encouraging.

Not sure if this was shared already

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=U-6BxaJHr50VVe8YqOpDSQ

[GelbeWand09]

Jase’s game is trending toward scoring and secondary creation, while Anthony Black holds the stronger playmaking upside thanks to his size, vision, and advanced court awareness. AB is positioning himself to challenge for Suggs’ spot in the starting lineup, while Jase looks poised to compete for a sixth man role. Different players, different trajectories.

Your thoughts on Black are - as always - loaded with a level of optimism that isn't particularly appropriate given what he's shown thus far in two NBA seasons.

But who am I to tell you how to judge these things

The optimism comes from AB’s proven role as a point guard, both in college and the NBA. He’s consistently been asked to initiate offense, run sets, and make reads as a primary decision-maker. His playmaking is not a projection, it’s already been tested at high levels.

The scoring still has to come along, no doubt. But in terms of passing vision, tempo control, and defensive versatility, he’s clearly ahead of Jase, who’s tracking more as a combo guard than a true lead.

I just want to keep the record straight. Everyone's calling Jase a point guard because he's small when AB is the one with the playmaking chops.

You mean he watched Paolo, Franz & Cojo do this, while he stood in the corner.

[Last Guardian]

Jase is already better than Cole. Getting two upgrades over Cole this offseason is some great progress.

Cole Anthony has more of a scoring mentality, while Jase wants to defer to others!

Cole was reckless and Jase is measured. Cole’s “aggression” wasn’t a strength.

I said this in the Cole thread but he is just too emotional to be consistent. Jase seems kind of unbothered and stoic, so it makes sense his game is a bit more measured and efficient.

[thelead]

This is not really a knock on Jase because he's been REALLY GOOD at what they've asked him to do, but he really does appear to a 6'1" shooting guard right now.

And look, if he can score efficiently and not turn the ball over, there's a ton of value there no matter how tall/short you are.

But two games in, the Magic are using him a lot more like Michigan State used him. A lot of pindowns, a lot of zoom actions, a lot of dribble handoffs, they're making a concerted effort to get him the ball when he's already on the move to help make up for his lack of explosiveness/creating separation off the dribble.

I think he's pretty far off from being able to be a full time point guard at the NBA level, but the early returns on his ability to be efficient offensively, both as a scorer and a ball protector, are very encouraging.

Not sure if this was shared already

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=U-6BxaJHr50VVe8YqOpDSQ

VERY encouraging to see his efficiency holding up in SL.

[Skybox]

This is not really a knock on Jase because he's been REALLY GOOD at what they've asked him to do, but he really does appear to a 6'1" shooting guard right now.

And look, if he can score efficiently and not turn the ball over, there's a ton of value there no matter how tall/short you are.

But two games in, the Magic are using him a lot more like Michigan State used him. A lot of pindowns, a lot of zoom actions, a lot of dribble handoffs, they're making a concerted effort to get him the ball when he's already on the move to help make up for his lack of explosiveness/creating separation off the dribble.

I think he's pretty far off from being able to be a full time point guard at the NBA level, but the early returns on his ability to be efficient offensively, both as a scorer and a ball protector, are very encouraging.

+1

Everything possible to give it to him when he's already moving.

So…playmaking? Passing to a guy in a way that makes scoring easier for him rather than handoff at the logo and watch him cook? Good to hear

[Audi]

Cole Anthony has more of a scoring mentality, while Jase wants to defer to others!

Cole was reckless and Jase is measured. Cole’s “aggression” wasn’t a strength.

I said this in the Cole thread but he is just too emotional to be consistent. Jase seems kind of unbothered and stoic, so it makes sense his game is a bit more measured and efficient.

Funny you say this. As I’ve been watching him I’ve been thinking that in terms of temperament and control on the court - Jase gives off Fultz vibes.

[Skybox]

The optimism comes from AB’s proven role as a point guard, both in college and the NBA. He’s consistently been asked to initiate offense, run sets, and make reads as a primary decision-maker. His playmaking is not a projection, it’s already been tested at high levels.

The scoring still has to come along, no doubt. But in terms of passing vision, tempo control, and defensive versatility, he’s clearly ahead of Jase, who’s tracking more as a combo guard than a true lead.

Yeah, except none of this is actually true to the levels you're claiming.

But you do you.

The only “tempo control” I remember is picking up his dribble just over half court looking for a handoff to a player that wants to play offense. That gave the defense 10 free seconds to get set…that certainly controlled ORL’s tempo.

On those rare nights AB played angry and aggressive…I saw what eyriq saw- but is way too infrequently to call that his brand

[eyriq]

On those rare nights AB played angry and aggressive…I saw what eyriq saw-

And isn't it just glorious?

[RookieStar]

Oh of course we are, but it’s our last bit of basketball for like 3 months. So cut everybody some slack

I’ve been entertained by the rookies and TDS which is about all you can really ask for.

Isnt Franz TDS and Goga playing next month?

That doesn’t count

Besides… we’re all going to watch the first two minutes of the first Germany game, realize Franz’s 3PT form is still the exact same, and all start sobbing anyway.

It counts because Franz will have no hitch on his 3s anymore and will whet our appetites for next season even more

Also, goga will block some shots, show some low-post moves he copied from Hakeem's youtube tutorials and will have a thread on why he should be our starting C and not WCJ

[RookieStar]

Kelley had a real chance to earn a two-way contract. Game one was promising; game-2, not so much.

Im sorry but what SL games have you been watching? Even the 1st game I thought " who is this scrub" and " is this the best C we could find?"

[drsd]

Kelley had a real chance to earn a two-way contract. Game one was promising; game-2, not so much.

Im sorry but what SL games have you been watching? Even the 1st game I thought " who is this scrub" and " is this the best C we could find?"

I meant "had a real chance", before the summer league, he was in a position to earn a 2-way contract. After these two games, he has failed in that goal. We are agreeing with each other.

As of now, I am hoping for an Oscar Tshiebwe signing. Or maybe the Magic can bring back Colin Castleton.

[RookieStar]

I haven't really been overly impressed with any of the guys who have played outside of the three roster guys.

Santos terrible. Kelley terrible. Crutcher terrible.

Alondes Williams has been ok, but he's 26 years old and has been on the fringe of the NBA for several years now, so he really should be able to produce in a Summer League setting.

Wendell Moore Jr. had a good 2nd game, but he just doesn't seem all that skilled.

It's just unfortunate because there are multiple two-way spots up for grabs. Someone needs to take advantage.

you know...we could always grab those unsigned/undrafted guys playing in other teams...

[RookieStar]

which is fair. i just saw you say he is far from being a fulltime starting PG, and most PG's are that way

That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying he's not really even being used a point guard/on-ball player at all right now.

If they stuck Jase on the ball and said "initiate ball screens and figure it out" - he would struggle at that very badly because 99.9% of teenage guards aren't ready to step into the NBA and do that at a high level.

But it's really not about how good or bad Jase would be at doing something.

It's more about what the organization envisions with the guy and THUS FAR (this could change), it appears the Magic are content developing him as an off-ball player more than an on-ball player.

Seeing as we run our offense through 2 playmaking big wings, I guess we are making Jase into a position of need.