Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[dougthonus]

He would just sign for the non taxpayer MLE, around $14M. There were 23 non-tax paying teams to start FA a few of them used it but there are still plenty left. If the Bulls push hard for a long term contract slightly above this say $20M, I'd easily take the MLE and hit UFA next season.

This is why there are a ton of suitors for Beal even though there is no cap space, still a lot of MLE's out there.

There are only 4 teams with the non taxpayer MLE left, and we are one of them.

https://www.salaryswish.com/mid-level-exception

The other three are:
Warriors
Trailblazers
Wizards

Would one of those three teams be excited about Giddey on a one year deal where he has a no trade clause and there are no bird rights afterwards? That doesn't seem super likely to me.

Beyond that, would Giddy be interested in taking a one year 14M deal now vs continuing to negotiate with us if we threw 3/70 and 5/125 on the table? That also seems unlikely to me. Doing a multi-year MLE is already considerably less than our offers and has no benefit vs taking one of our deals.

FWIW, the deadline to do this has passed, so this is only a theoretical.

[Dan Z]

I don't think Giddey will actually leave, but hypothetically let's say that he does. Where does that leave the team?

Probably pivoting to a full rebuild which is what I'd rather have them do anyway

It's interesting to think about where the Bulls would be without him. Top 5 worst team in the league? Better?

In a way he's the main driving force for the current roster.

[Stratmaster]

If you are saying you pick a number and stick to it there is certainly a ceiling number you do not go past. That isn't where you generally start negotiations from. The number I would like to get Giddey for is 25 mil. But my ceiling is 30 mil. I'm not going to lose him for anywhere in-between. Anything less would be a blatant "F U we don't have to pay you because no one else has money". That generally doesn't work well long term.

I don't think that's unreasonable, and it's probably quite reasonable for the Bulls given their strategic plans and lack of interest in doing any type of deep rebuild. It's hard for me to sit in the same boat, because I'd just make different decisions overall and wouldn't be tied to their strategic plan. Even that said, my ceiling is at least 25M. I'd probably push come to shove be willing to go up to 26-27M vs letting him walk away, but I'd go descending contract as part of that (which theoretically shouldn't be a problem because Giddey gets more money earlier which is better for him financially).

My range is probably like start at 23M and ceiling it at 27M, but I'd have no problem negotiating hard up until the deadline for a deal.

Interesting take on the Matas front. I couldn't bear to watch the gym teams, trying to lose, running up and down the court at the end of last season so I haven't seen enough of him. I didn't realize that is a role he is expected to play. I took him to be more of a cutter, rim runner and post against certain players guy. I look forward to watching some of that this season.

I don't know that it is a role that he is expected to play, but if you believe in Matas as a high upside player, it's a role he will need to play eventually. He has the ball handling to develop in that role, though I don't think it's a strength now, it's not hard to see how it might become one. Like compared to Pat Williams at the same point in his career, he's a radically better ball handler and is much faster with the ball in his hands with a quicker first step and change of direction. We spent a lot of thought thinking we should get Pat on ball reps despite being a dreadful ball handler, should be trying it with Matas whom is a good ball handler.

I agree on the front loaded contract to the extent the rules allow. . Makes sense for both parties.

And I just have to state, I was NEVER for giving Pwill more on-ball reps. I wanted him off the court completely.

[HomoSapien]

JOSH GIDDEY SIGNS!!!!!

Read on Twitter

[Infinity2152]

Want to make sure I have this correctly. See a lot of people saying their ceiling is 25, 27, 30. So if Utah comes with a $32 mill AAV contract, you guys would be in favor of just letting Giddey walk and not matching? Just want to make sure I have this straight. Assume no S&T, lose the asset entirely, get nothing but future cap space back.

[sco]

JOSH GIDDEY SIGNS!!!!!

Read on Twitter

Nothing say Bulls Star like Puma

[Ben Wilson25]

JOSH GIDDEY SIGNS!!!!!

Read on Twitter

Nothing say Bulls Star like Puma

This could set off a bidding war for Buzelis between British Knights, K-Swiss and Lotto.

[dougthonus]

Per someone on twitter, KC Johnson said Giddey is at 30M and he thinks the Bulls are below 25M (but has no direct knowledge on Bulls offer).

[Infinity2152]

JOSH GIDDEY SIGNS!!!!!

Read on Twitter

Nothing say Bulls Star like Puma

Any idea of the numbers? Can't find them anywhere? Imagine it's a pretty lucrative deal, he was with Nike till this year.

[HomoSapien]

Per someone on twitter, KC Johnson said Giddey is at 30M and he thinks the Bulls are below 25M (but has no direct knowledge on Bulls offer).

Below $25 seems like we are just wasting everyone's time.

[dougthonus]

Per someone on twitter, KC Johnson said Giddey is at 30M and he thinks the Bulls are below 25M (but has no direct knowledge on Bulls offer).

Below $25 seems like we are just wasting everyone's time.

We'll see. I think there's plenty of reason to disagree with this statement, and I don't think the league pays on counting stats anymore when there are significant flaws that don't show up in very simplistic raw numbers. Either way, I'm glad we're negotiating aggressively.

My guess is we started below 25 to get to 25 rather than starting at 25 and forcing Giddey to give in 100%.

[waffle]

shorter big AAV
Longer closer to 25
take the QO

I think those are the options....I can see the rationale for all of em

[Infinity2152]

Per someone on twitter, KC Johnson said Giddey is at 30M and he thinks the Bulls are below 25M (but has no direct knowledge on Bulls offer).

Below $25 seems like we are just wasting everyone's time.

This is what's worrisome. If the gap is between say $20 mill and $30 mill, that's a 50% increase. Even $22 mill to $30 mill is a huge gap. Going to be hard to meet in the middle, both sides have to move a long way from where they are now. Could get really contentious. A gap between $25 to $30 would be way less worrying.

5yrs/22 mill AAV is $110 mill. 5yrs/$30 mill is $150 mill. $40 mill is a pretty big gap. Starting at $22 mill to get to $25 when the other party is looking for $30 is still a huge gap percentage wise. Party 1 is willing to go up $15 mill on a 5 year contract while asking Party 2 to come down $25 mill at $25 mill AAV. Not a sports agent, but been in a ton of contract negotiations. Often with agents who use that same logic, mispricing their offer for negotiating room. Offers that far apart rarely work. Like at what point do they offer the $25? These negotiations have gone on awhile and both sides know the other team's starting point. Seems almost like a game of chicken at this point, unless there's actually been some movement up or down.

Utah could clear enough to make him a real offer pretty easily now. Situation is not the same. they can clear $22 mill in cap space just waiving non-guaranteed players, IIRC. Trade a player into some teams exception and it's on and cracking.

[Stratmaster]

I can't help but have the feeling the Bulls will screw this up and either lose Giddey, or have a disgruntled Giddey. The goal should be a giddy Giddey.... sorry. It's never cute the 2nd time

[Infinity2152]

Imagine an offer for $30 mill actually comes in from another team. Don't say it can't happen. Bulls can do one of two things:

1. Let Giddey go to the other team.

2. Call Giddey, say "We know we've been saying you weren't worth $30 mill for weeks, and we made you go find it from another team you had a great meeting with in a horrible market, but we lied. We think you're worth it and you can't go there. Here. Hope you're happy. No hard feelings. At least we offered you $22 mill."

"Now go lead the team and put up All-Stars stats with All-Star defense. Because that's a $22-$30 mill player."

[meekrab]

Utah could clear enough to make him a real offer pretty easily now. Situation is not the same. they can clear $22 mill in cap space just waiving non-guaranteed players, IIRC. Trade a player into some teams exception and it's on and cracking.

If Josh signs with the Jazz for 22M starting salary the Bulls match and congratulate themselves for finally doing something right.

[Dez]

Imagine an offer for $30 mill actually comes in from another team. Don't say it can't happen. Bulls can do one of two things:

1. Let Giddey go to the other team.

2. Call Giddey, say "We know we've been saying you weren't worth $30 mill for weeks, and we made you go find it from another team you had a great meeting with in a horrible market, but we lied. We think you're worth it and you can't go there. Here. Hope you're happy. No hard feelings. At least we offered you $22 mill."

"Now go lead the team and put up All-Stars stats with All-Star defense. Because that's a $22-$30 mill player."

Number 2 makes no sense, every player knows that negotiations are about getting the best possible deal and that's true for team and player.

[Infinity2152]

Just for fun: Players between $22 mill and $30 mill in 2025:

Tyler Herro $30,000,000 Miami Heat
Jalen Suggs $30,100,000 Orlando Magic
Jalen Johnson $30,000,000 Atlanta Hawks
Julius Randle $30,666,667 Minnesota Timberwolves
Kristaps Porzingis $30,731,707 Boston Celtics
CJ McCollum $30,666,666 New Orleans Pelicans
Isaiah Hartenstein $28,500,000 Oklahoma City Thunder
Andrew Wiggins $28,223,215 Miami Heat
Derrick White $28,100,000 Boston Celtics
RJ Barrett $27,705,357 Toronto Raptors
Devin Vassell $27,000,000 San Antonio Spurs
Terry Rozier $26,643,031 Miami Heat
Tobias Harris $26,634,146 Philadelphia 76ers
John Collins $26,580,000 Utah Jazz
Draymond Green $25,892,857 Golden State Warriors
Nicolas Claxton $25,352,272 Brooklyn Nets
Myles Turner $25,318,251 Indiana Pacers
Trey Murphy III $25,000,000 New Orleans Pelicans
Fred VanVleet $25,000,000 Houston Rockets
Miles Bridges $25,000,000 Charlotte Hornets
Mikal Bridges $24,900,000 New York Knicks
DeMar DeRozan $24,570,000 Sacramento Kings
Jaden McDaniels $24,393,104 Minnesota Timberwolves
De'Andre Hunter $23,303,571 Cleveland Cavaliers
Aaron Gordon $22,841,455 Denver Nuggets
Damian Lillard $22,516,603 Milwaukee Bucks
Kyle Kuzma $22,410,605 Milwaukee Bucks
Dillon Brooks $22,124,110 Houston Rockets

Not fully updated. Missing a few guys, but enough to form an opinion. Where does Giddey place?

Long list, I know. Who on that list would you trade Giddey for right now straight up? 5 year contract.

[Dan Z]

Imagine an offer for $30 mill actually comes in from another team. Don't say it can't happen. Bulls can do one of two things:

1. Let Giddey go to the other team.

2. Call Giddey, say "We know we've been saying you weren't worth $30 mill for weeks, and we made you go find it from another team you had a great meeting with in a horrible market, but we lied. We think you're worth it and you can't go there. Here. Hope you're happy. No hard feelings. At least we offered you $22 mill."

"Now go lead the team and put up All-Stars stats with All-Star defense. Because that's a $22-$30 mill player."

Number 2 makes no sense, every player knows that negotiations are about getting the best possible deal and that's true for team and player.

It's a business. If Giddey doesn't understand that then that's on him.

[Pipp33]

Just for fun: Players between $22 mill and $30 mill in 2025:

Tyler Herro $30,000,000 Miami Heat
Jalen Suggs $30,100,000 Orlando Magic
Jalen Johnson $30,000,000 Atlanta Hawks
Julius Randle $30,666,667 Minnesota Timberwolves
Kristaps Porzingis $30,731,707 Boston Celtics
CJ McCollum $30,666,666 New Orleans Pelicans
Isaiah Hartenstein $28,500,000 Oklahoma City Thunder
Andrew Wiggins $28,223,215 Miami Heat
Derrick White $28,100,000 Boston Celtics
RJ Barrett $27,705,357 Toronto Raptors
Devin Vassell $27,000,000 San Antonio Spurs
Terry Rozier $26,643,031 Miami Heat
Tobias Harris $26,634,146 Philadelphia 76ers
John Collins $26,580,000 Utah Jazz
Draymond Green $25,892,857 Golden State Warriors
Nicolas Claxton $25,352,272 Brooklyn Nets
Myles Turner $25,318,251 Indiana Pacers
Trey Murphy III $25,000,000 New Orleans Pelicans
Fred VanVleet $25,000,000 Houston Rockets
Miles Bridges $25,000,000 Charlotte Hornets
Mikal Bridges $24,900,000 New York Knicks
DeMar DeRozan $24,570,000 Sacramento Kings
Jaden McDaniels $24,393,104 Minnesota Timberwolves
De'Andre Hunter $23,303,571 Cleveland Cavaliers
Aaron Gordon $22,841,455 Denver Nuggets
Damian Lillard $22,516,603 Milwaukee Bucks
Kyle Kuzma $22,410,605 Milwaukee Bucks
Dillon Brooks $22,124,110 Houston Rockets

Not fully updated. Missing a few guys, but enough to form an opinion. Where does Giddey place?

Long list, I know. Who on that list would you trade Giddey for right now straight up? 5 year contract.

There's good players on this list, but they also have to match a NEED for the Bulls.

Mikal Bridges is a great player, but Bulls need a play maker. D White is not the right age for where we are.

There's not many on the list I'd rather on the Bulls, for what we need right NOW.

Suggs has the potential to be a defensive stud (and shown some), but realistically, he's been injury prone and at best on the Magic, he's their 3rd best player, possible 4th (Banchero/Franz/Bane). You can see why Giddey and agent want a similar contract. Suggs is 18 months older and averaged approx 52 games/season and has shot the ball worse than Giddey overall. Yes, he's a much better defender, and Giddey is a much better play maker.

I comfortably see Giddey comparable with the upper tier on this list , considering age/team needs/growth/fast play