Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[Infinity2152]

Do I really to compile the long list of players who took contract offers personally? I could start with Scottie Pippen and how his contract affected him. The list would be entirely too long. You all are talking about a make-believe world, where everybody is logical and emotions don't get involved. Maybe get in a contract negotiation or two and see how often emotions get involved. All the time. Saying if Giddey doesn't understand it, that's on him doesn't stop us from having a disgruntled $30 mill player if we match. Or help us if he takes the QO. Cannot go into negotiations thinking a 22 year old coddled super athlete won't take his money personally. Contracts are status in the NBA, listen to any player talk about it.

Is there no difference in terms of performance between a motivated, happy, I feel appreciated Giddey, and a resentful Giddey who felt like he signed because he had no other real options? Are we better off with a player we had to force to stay here, or a guy we could have offered the same money to and he'd have been extremely happy? Is there any question in you guys minds the Bulls would match an offer up to $30 mill? Do you think Giddey doesn't believe that right now?

If we're at $22 mill, maybe stop playing and go to $25-$26 mill and get somewhere. Might get under that $30 but somebody has to blink, that's a long jump.

[dougthonus]

This is what's worrisome. If the gap is between say $20 mill and $30 mill, that's a 50% increase. Even $22 mill to $30 mill is a huge gap. Going to be hard to meet in the middle, both sides have to move a long way from where they are now. Could get really contentious. A gap between $25 to $30 would be way less worrying.

A gap of 20-25M would also be less worrying.

5yrs/22 mill AAV is $110 mill. 5yrs/$30 mill is $150 mill. $40 mill is a pretty big gap. Starting at $22 mill to get to $25 when the other party is looking for $30 is still a huge gap percentage wise. Party 1 is willing to go up $15 mill on a 5 year contract while asking Party 2 to come down $25 mill at $25 mill AAV. Not a sports agent, but been in a ton of contract negotiations. Often with agents who use that same logic, mispricing their offer for negotiating room. Offers that far apart rarely work. Like at what point do they offer the $25? These negotiations have gone on awhile and both sides know the other team's starting point. Seems almost like a game of chicken at this point, unless there's actually been some movement up or down.

It's definitely a game of chicken, except we're moving at 2mph and starting 200 miles apart. Nothing will happen until October most likely.

Utah could clear enough to make him a real offer pretty easily now. Situation is not the same. they can clear $22 mill in cap space just waiving non-guaranteed players, IIRC. Trade a player into some teams exception and it's on and cracking.

I mean that's likely lower than our offer that is currently on the table.

[Infinity2152]

This is what's worrisome. If the gap is between say $20 mill and $30 mill, that's a 50% increase. Even $22 mill to $30 mill is a huge gap. Going to be hard to meet in the middle, both sides have to move a long way from where they are now. Could get really contentious. A gap between $25 to $30 would be way less worrying.

A gap of 20-25M would also be less worrying.

5yrs/22 mill AAV is $110 mill. 5yrs/$30 mill is $150 mill. $40 mill is a pretty big gap. Starting at $22 mill to get to $25 when the other party is looking for $30 is still a huge gap percentage wise. Party 1 is willing to go up $15 mill on a 5 year contract while asking Party 2 to come down $25 mill at $25 mill AAV. Not a sports agent, but been in a ton of contract negotiations. Often with agents who use that same logic, mispricing their offer for negotiating room. Offers that far apart rarely work. Like at what point do they offer the $25? These negotiations have gone on awhile and both sides know the other team's starting point. Seems almost like a game of chicken at this point, unless there's actually been some movement up or down.

It's definitely a game of chicken, except we're moving at 2mph and starting 200 miles apart. Nothing will happen until October most likely.

Utah could clear enough to make him a real offer pretty easily now. Situation is not the same. they can clear $22 mill in cap space just waiving non-guaranteed players, IIRC. Trade a player into some teams exception and it's on and cracking.

I mean that's likely lower than our offer that is currently on the table.

The $22 mill is basically without doing anything. I said they could simply trade another player into an exception or for a cheaper player and make a real offer. Might cost a second or two, that would be a small cost to steal Giddey.

You all can put it how you want to. Prioritize savings over everything else. The Bulls have Giddey over a barrel and they both know it. His market price is depressed because of the market. If anybody thinks Giddey would easily get a $30 mill offer immediately if this was next summer, not even going to argue with you. If you think he wouldn't already have that as an UFA this summer, not going to argue.

Bulls have two major advantages and they're pressing the hell out of both, limited market and RFA tag. They can pay him fairly or they can try to squeeze every dime out of him. There are consequences to doing bad faith business with somebody you're planning to work with for 5 years.

Everybody has their own way. This lasting till October would be even worse. If they only think $22 mill is fair, fine. They're stupid imo if they think that, but fine. But if you're willing to match up to $30 mill, you think he's worth $30 mill. Offer the guy a fair contract, doesn't have to be $30, but $22 mill because you have leverage is just bad business, imo. I would never do business with somebody I'm planning on having a long term business arrangement and is extremely valuable to my business like that.

[dougthonus]

Do I really to compile the long list of players who took contract offers personally? I could start with Scottie Pippen and how his contract affected him. The list would be entirely too long.

Do you need to make a list of people that had long contract negotiations and then never worried about it again? Pippen is a terrible example because he begged for the deal he took, and we told him not to take it because we wouldn't renegotiate it. It wasn't a contentious contract negotiation. Beyond that, Pippen has more or less been shown to be pissed about everything in life for his whole life.

For someone who says they have negotiated a lot of contracts, your negotiation style seems to be bend over and give in to 100% of what the other side wants without even making an attempt.

Is there no difference in terms of performance between a motivated, happy, I feel appreciated Giddey, and a resentful Giddey who felt like he signed because he had no other real options? Are we better off with a player we had to force to stay here, or a guy we could have offered the same money to and he'd have been extremely happy? Is there any question in you guys minds the Bulls would match an offer up to $30 mill? Do you think Giddey doesn't believe that right now?

You really think Giddey is just going to play a ton better if we pay him 30M instead of 22M? Maybe we should give Pat Williams another 12M and see if he improves.

[dougthonus]

The $22 mill is basically without doing anything. I said they could simply trade another player into an exception or for a cheaper player and make a real offer. Might cost a second or two, that would be a small cost to steal Giddey.

ROFL. There's literally no reason to think Utah would even consider that. They can also only start at 18M by waiving their own guys, so would need to give up assets into someone's cap room just to make an offer that would likely get matched even if they did want him, which again, there's no reason to think they do.

[Dez]

Imagine an offer for $30 mill actually comes in from another team. Don't say it can't happen. Bulls can do one of two things:

1. Let Giddey go to the other team.

2. Call Giddey, say "We know we've been saying you weren't worth $30 mill for weeks, and we made you go find it from another team you had a great meeting with in a horrible market, but we lied. We think you're worth it and you can't go there. Here. Hope you're happy. No hard feelings. At least we offered you $22 mill."

"Now go lead the team and put up All-Stars stats with All-Star defense. Because that's a $22-$30 mill player."

Number 2 makes no sense, every player knows that negotiations are about getting the best possible deal and that's true for team and player.

It's a business. If Giddey doesn't understand that then that's on him.

That's what I'm saying, both players and teams know this.

Nobody is going to get their feelings hurt because they didn't get what they wanted immediately.

[Infinity2152]

Do I really to compile the long list of players who took contract offers personally? I could start with Scottie Pippen and how his contract affected him. The list would be entirely too long.

Do you need to make a list of people that had long contract negotiations and then never worried about it again? Pippen is a terrible example because he begged for the deal he took, and we told him not to take it because we wouldn't renegotiate it. It wasn't a contentious contract negotiation. Beyond that, Pippen has more or less been shown to be pissed about everything in life for his whole life.

For someone who says they have negotiated a lot of contracts, your negotiation style seems to be bend over and give in to 100% of what the other side wants without even making an attempt.

Is there no difference in terms of performance between a motivated, happy, I feel appreciated Giddey, and a resentful Giddey who felt like he signed because he had no other real options? Are we better off with a player we had to force to stay here, or a guy we could have offered the same money to and he'd have been extremely happy? Is there any question in you guys minds the Bulls would match an offer up to $30 mill? Do you think Giddey doesn't believe that right now?

You really think Giddey is just going to play a ton better if we pay him 30M instead of 22M? Maybe we should give Pat Williams another 12M and see if he improves.

That's an absolute lie. Bend over and give in vs offering maybe 40% of what the client is looking for is so far from the same thing, it's ridiculous. I specifically pointed out percentages and margins of difference for exactly that reason. I'm not even saying we should offer him $30 mill right now, lmao!!! Like you keep exaggerating what I'm saying.

You want to make fun of my negotiating, you tell me in your experience how many contracts go thru when the parties are 40%-50% different in value assessment? How many houses are listed at $300k, and the seller is ok with taking $200k? They have to be pretty desperate, and they damn sure don't want to do it.

I'm going to make this statement very clear. Try to twist it if you can. I don't know what the Bulls value Giddey at. If the Bulls are willing to match up to $30 mill, then IMO they believe he's worth $30 mill. I think it's disingenuous and bad business to start at $22 mill if you believe he's worth $30 mill. I believe heartily in saving money, all my cars I bought at auction and my home in a short sale. I'm a deal hunter. Let's say I hadn't ever negotiated a damn thing. in my personal opinion, I believe starting that far apart from what you believe to be a player's true value is bad business.

Imagine this. Giddey comes in asking for $35 mill. It's actually not that unreasonable, and may be what happened who knows? The team thinks he's worth $30 mill. Do they still start at $22 mill? Probably not. They start at $25 mill to get to $30 mill, which they feel is fair market value. That's a very simplistic way to negotiate contracts.

For everybody saying players don't take contract negotiations personally, you got it. Believe what you want. Or watch any interview with any player who had contentious contract negotiations and hear it from their own mouths. Don't care which.

[dougthonus]

That's an absolute lie. Bend over and give in vs offering maybe 40% of what the client is looking for is so far from the same thing, it's ridiculous.

You have been in an utter panic since FA started because we have not given Giddey 30M already, which is 100% of what he is asking for.

40% of 30M is 12M. The quote is that KC thinks we're not quite at 25M which means we're likely between 75%-80% of what he is asking for, and that seems quite normal.

I specifically pointed out percentages and margins of difference for exactly that reason. I'm not even saying we should offer him $30 mill right now, lmao!!! Like you keep exaggerating what I'm saying.

All your math is based on your opinion one side is being more reasonable than the other, because you have said you would give Giddey the max if necessary, so your basis points for all your math is based on a premise that no one else in the league except you believes about Giddey's worth.

You want to make fun of my negotiating, you tell me in your experience how many contracts go thru when the parties are 40%-50% different in value assessment? How many houses are listed at $300k, and the seller is ok with taking $160k?

I mean literally do some math, because that's not even close to what is happening, but if someone puts their house on the market for 300k and literally no one in the world but one person can pay over 150k, then the odds of that person getting 300k are pretty low.

I'm going to make this statement very clear. Try to twist it if you can. I don't know what the Bulls value Giddey at. If the Bulls are willing to match up to $30 mill, then IMO they believe he's worth $30 mill. I think it's disingenuous and bad business to start at $22 mill if you believe he's worth $30 mill. I believe heartily in saving money, all my cars I bought at auction and my home in a short sale. I'm a deal hunter. Let's say I hadn't ever negotiated a damn thing. in my personal opinion, I believe starting that far apart from what you believe e a player's true value is bad business.

In a world where you had the exact extremes both sides would take (ie most Bulls would pay and least Giddey would take), the odds are those ranges overlap at more than one exact point. They might overlap by 5M dollars. Why should one side meet the other at the absolute maximum of their acceptable range rather than in the middle of both parties acceptable ranges?

Imagine this. Giddey comes in asking for $35 mill. It's actually not that unreasonable, and may be what happened who knows? The team thinks he's worth $30 mill. Do they still start at $22 mill? Probably not. They start at $25 mill to get to $30 mill, which they feel is fair market value.

Every argument you have made could be reversed in favor of the other side and be similarly valid, because the core piece of your argument is really not about negotiation at all but your underlying belief that Giddey is worth dramatically more than most people.

[Infinity2152]

That's an absolute lie. Bend over and give in vs offering maybe 40% of what the client is looking for is so far from the same thing, it's ridiculous.

You have been in an utter panic since FA started because we have not given Giddey 30M already, which is 100% of what he is asking for.

40% of 30M is 12M. The quote is that KC thinks we're not quite at 25M which means we're likely between 75%-80% of what he is asking for, and that seems quite normal.

I specifically pointed out percentages and margins of difference for exactly that reason. I'm not even saying we should offer him $30 mill right now, lmao!!! Like you keep exaggerating what I'm saying.

All your math is based on your opinion one side is being more reasonable than the other, because you have said you would give Giddey the max if necessary, so your basis points for all your math is based on a premise that no one else in the league except you believes about Giddey's worth.

You want to make fun of my negotiating, you tell me in your experience how many contracts go thru when the parties are 40%-50% different in value assessment? How many houses are listed at $300k, and the seller is ok with taking $160k?

I mean literally do some math, because that's not even close to what is happening.

I'm going to make this statement very clear. Try to twist it if you can. I don't know what the Bulls value Giddey at. If the Bulls are willing to match up to $30 mill, then IMO they believe he's worth $30 mill. I think it's disingenuous and bad business to start at $22 mill if you believe he's worth $30 mill. I believe heartily in saving money, all my cars I bought at auction and my home in a short sale. I'm a deal hunter. Let's say I hadn't ever negotiated a damn thing. in my personal opinion, I believe starting that far apart from what you believe e a player's true value is bad business.

In a world where you had the exact extremes both sides would take (ie most Bulls would pay and least Giddey would take), the odds are those ranges overlap at more than one exact point. They might overlap by 5M dollars. Why should one side meet the other at the absolute maximum of their acceptable range rather than in the middle of both parties acceptable ranges?

Imagine this. Giddey comes in asking for $35 mill. It's actually not that unreasonable, and may be what happened who knows? The team thinks he's worth $30 mill. Do they still start at $22 mill? Probably not. They start at $25 mill to get to $30 mill, which they feel is fair market value.

Every argument you have made could be reversed in favor of the other side and be similarly valid, because the core piece of your argument is really not about negotiation at all but your underlying belief that Giddey is worth dramatically more than most people.

Not going to keep arguing with you. You believe the Bulls are operating in good faith and everything will work out fine. Great. Clearly you believe this is good business practice. I disagree with both. I'll say it 5 times so you can hear me. I would have been fine with the Bulls offering him the $30 mill at any point. I think that is very fair value. I believe that will be a bargain contract in 2 years. If they offered him $25 mill right now, I'd be ecstatic. I believe $22 mill is playing unnecessary games. If you disagree, that's fine.

That's if the Bulls actually believe he's worth $30 mill. If they are only willing to pay him up to $25 mill, $22 mill is a good starting point.

There's a point where it makes more financial sense for Giddey to just take the QO, and his agent will be advising him of that. he would get $11 mill for the season, $11 mill less than a $22 mill offer, and maybe make an additional $40-60 mill on the next contract. Agents get a percentage of the contract. Even a $25 mill AAV deal. If he truly believes he's worth 30 mill or more, financially it would be better to take the QO and enter free agency with the cap expanded another 7% and a ton of bidders.

Yes, I believe Giddey is worth a $30 mill contract. Yes, I believe we should pay less if we can. Yes, I think this method of negotiating is poor if the numbers are as stated. My personal belief and nothing's going to change that, absent actual figures. Neither of us have them, pointless to keep arguing hypotheticals. You talking about my personal belief as a talking point means we're taking it somewhere I don't need it to go. When I'm talking about negotiating, has nothing to do with my beliefs in Giddey as a player. It could be any asset.

So you win. AKME is doing a bangup job with this.

[dougthonus]

Not going to keep arguing with you. You believe the Bulls are operating in good faith and everything will work out fine. Great. Clearly you believe this is good business practice. I disagree with both. I'll say it 5 times so you can hear me. I would have been fine with the Bulls offering him the $30 mill at any point. I think that is very fair value. I believe that will be a bargain contract in 2 years. If they offered him $25 mill right now, I'd be ecstatic. I believe $22 mill is playing unnecessary games. If you disagree, that's fine.

That's if the Bulls actually believe he's worth $30 mill. If they are only willing to pay him up to $25 mill, $22 mill is a good starting point.

There's a point where it makes more financial sense for Giddey to just take the QO, and his agent will be advising him of that. he would get $11 mill for the season, $11 mill less than a $22 mill offer, and maybe make an additional $40-60 mill on the next contract. Agents get a percentage of the contract.

If Giddey wants 30M but would ultimately take 24M, and the Bulls offer is 24M now, should he take it because he knows it's within what he would do push comes to shove? The Bulls afterall are trying to build a title team and every dollar they save on cap room helps them.

That's the same argument you are making in reverse.

Two sides represented by world class negotiators are trying to do whatever they can that is best for them. There's no moral right or wrong here. The Bulls are not morally more correct or less correct for not paying Giddey the absolute peak they would, nor is Giddey morally more correct or less correct by not offering the Bulls the least that he would take.

In fact, there are no morals at all here about two generationally wealthy sides negotiating generational wealthy deals with each other with generationally wealthy representatives doing the negotiations.

[sco]

That's an absolute lie. Bend over and give in vs offering maybe 40% of what the client is looking for is so far from the same thing, it's ridiculous.

You have been in an utter panic since FA started because we have not given Giddey 30M already, which is 100% of what he is asking for.

40% of 30M is 12M. The quote is that KC thinks we're not quite at 25M which means we're likely between 75%-80% of what he is asking for, and that seems quite normal.

I specifically pointed out percentages and margins of difference for exactly that reason. I'm not even saying we should offer him $30 mill right now, lmao!!! Like you keep exaggerating what I'm saying.

All your math is based on your opinion one side is being more reasonable than the other, because you have said you would give Giddey the max if necessary, so your basis points for all your math is based on a premise that no one else in the league except you believes about Giddey's worth.

You want to make fun of my negotiating, you tell me in your experience how many contracts go thru when the parties are 40%-50% different in value assessment? How many houses are listed at $300k, and the seller is ok with taking $160k?

I mean literally do some math, because that's not even close to what is happening.

I'm going to make this statement very clear. Try to twist it if you can. I don't know what the Bulls value Giddey at. If the Bulls are willing to match up to $30 mill, then IMO they believe he's worth $30 mill. I think it's disingenuous and bad business to start at $22 mill if you believe he's worth $30 mill. I believe heartily in saving money, all my cars I bought at auction and my home in a short sale. I'm a deal hunter. Let's say I hadn't ever negotiated a damn thing. in my personal opinion, I believe starting that far apart from what you believe e a player's true value is bad business.

In a world where you had the exact extremes both sides would take (ie most Bulls would pay and least Giddey would take), the odds are those ranges overlap at more than one exact point. They might overlap by 5M dollars. Why should one side meet the other at the absolute maximum of their acceptable range rather than in the middle of both parties acceptable ranges?

Imagine this. Giddey comes in asking for $35 mill. It's actually not that unreasonable, and may be what happened who knows? The team thinks he's worth $30 mill. Do they still start at $22 mill? Probably not. They start at $25 mill to get to $30 mill, which they feel is fair market value.

Every argument you have made could be reversed in favor of the other side and be similarly valid, because the core piece of your argument is really not about negotiation at all but your underlying belief that Giddey is worth dramatically more than most people.

Not going to keep arguing with you. You believe the Bulls are operating in good faith and everything will work out fine. Great. Clearly you believe this is good business practice. I disagree with both. I'll say it 5 times so you can hear me. I would have been fine with the Bulls offering him the $30 mill at any point. I think that is very fair value. I believe that will be a bargain contract in 2 years. If they offered him $25 mill right now, I'd be ecstatic. I believe $22 mill is playing unnecessary games. If you disagree, that's fine.

That's if the Bulls actually believe he's worth $30 mill. If they are only willing to pay him up to $25 mill, $22 mill is a good starting point.

There's a point where it makes more financial sense for Giddey to just take the QO, and his agent will be advising him of that. he would get $11 mill for the season, $11 mill less than a $22 mill offer, and maybe make an additional $40-60 mill on the next contract. Agents get a percentage of the contract.

First of all, we all know you will keep arguing with him (but that's ok ). Second, I think your argument about being worth $30M would be valid if Giddey played as well as he did for more than the "garbage time" of the season. Looking at his full season numbers, it is totally fair to be offering $22M, which I find hard to believe that he would consider an insulting number. Third, neither side should be in a rush to get this done...Giddey should wait to see if some team comes out of the woodwork to pay him $30M...the Bulls should hang tight and take advantage of market dynamics.

[Dez]

That's an absolute lie. Bend over and give in vs offering maybe 40% of what the client is looking for is so far from the same thing, it's ridiculous.

You have been in an utter panic since FA started because we have not given Giddey 30M already, which is 100% of what he is asking for.

40% of 30M is 12M. The quote is that KC thinks we're not quite at 25M which means we're likely between 75%-80% of what he is asking for, and that seems quite normal.

I specifically pointed out percentages and margins of difference for exactly that reason. I'm not even saying we should offer him $30 mill right now, lmao!!! Like you keep exaggerating what I'm saying.

All your math is based on your opinion one side is being more reasonable than the other, because you have said you would give Giddey the max if necessary, so your basis points for all your math is based on a premise that no one else in the league except you believes about Giddey's worth.

You want to make fun of my negotiating, you tell me in your experience how many contracts go thru when the parties are 40%-50% different in value assessment? How many houses are listed at $300k, and the seller is ok with taking $160k?

I mean literally do some math, because that's not even close to what is happening.

I'm going to make this statement very clear. Try to twist it if you can. I don't know what the Bulls value Giddey at. If the Bulls are willing to match up to $30 mill, then IMO they believe he's worth $30 mill. I think it's disingenuous and bad business to start at $22 mill if you believe he's worth $30 mill. I believe heartily in saving money, all my cars I bought at auction and my home in a short sale. I'm a deal hunter. Let's say I hadn't ever negotiated a damn thing. in my personal opinion, I believe starting that far apart from what you believe e a player's true value is bad business.

In a world where you had the exact extremes both sides would take (ie most Bulls would pay and least Giddey would take), the odds are those ranges overlap at more than one exact point. They might overlap by 5M dollars. Why should one side meet the other at the absolute maximum of their acceptable range rather than in the middle of both parties acceptable ranges?

Imagine this. Giddey comes in asking for $35 mill. It's actually not that unreasonable, and may be what happened who knows? The team thinks he's worth $30 mill. Do they still start at $22 mill? Probably not. They start at $25 mill to get to $30 mill, which they feel is fair market value.

Every argument you have made could be reversed in favor of the other side and be similarly valid, because the core piece of your argument is really not about negotiation at all but your underlying belief that Giddey is worth dramatically more than most people.

Not going to keep arguing with you. You believe the Bulls are operating in good faith and everything will work out fine. Great. Clearly you believe this is good business practice. I disagree with both. I'll say it 5 times so you can hear me. I would have been fine with the Bulls offering him the $30 mill at any point. I think that is very fair value. I believe that will be a bargain contract in 2 years. If they offered him $25 mill right now, I'd be ecstatic. I believe $22 mill is playing unnecessary games. If you disagree, that's fine.

That's if the Bulls actually believe he's worth $30 mill. If they are only willing to pay him up to $25 mill, $22 mill is a good starting point.

There's a point where it makes more financial sense for Giddey to just take the QO, and his agent will be advising him of that. he would get $11 mill for the season, $11 mill less than a $22 mill offer, and maybe make an additional $40-60 mill on the next contract. Agents get a percentage of the contract. Even a $25 mill AAV deal. If he truly believes he's worth 30 mill or more, financially it would be better to take the QO and enter free agency with the cap expanded another 7% and a ton of bidders.

His agent wouldn't advise him of taking the QO if he was any good at his job.

Chicago has a full guard rotation that can play significant minutes meaning they are in control of Giddey's contract year. Nobody's going to give him these massive contracts when the Bulls can decide how they want to use him.

There's also the added potential for injury.

[Infinity2152]

Ok. Too many at once.

Let's see:
Not going to keep arguing price my brother. Don't know the actual numbers, so let's leave them out. They're all hypothetical. The results we see now is an unsigned Giddey so far. How this turns out, we'll see. I have no idea.

Next: Me believing Giddey is easily worth a $30 mill contract is my personal opinion. When I compare him to players in that price range currently anywhere near his age, he is near the top of the list in assets I would like. Every player is an asset to me right now. He's unique, i give unique players higher value. If I was offered Devin Booker for him, I'd trade him immediately. He's worth more to me at 22 than Myles turner or Naz Reid, who just signed similar contracts.

Next: Your opinion if his agent would be foolish to tell him to take the QO. If he signs for 5 yrs/$22 mill that's a $110 mill contract.

If he takes the QO, take $11 mill, and signs a 4 yr/$35 mill AAV contract, that's $151 mill over 5 years. Say his agent gets 5%. Know how much extra that agent makes off that extra $41 mill? He'd be stupid to want that, huh?

Now, you're going to say, "But nobody will give Giddey $35 mill AAV!!!" Doesn't matter if you believe that. If his agent believes that, smart thing would be to go for the extra $40 million dollars. Giddey might think it's worth the risk for an extra $40 mill.

Ignore the numbers, they're hypothetical. The point is again there is a point where it makes financial sense to take the QO. If his agent thinks the reward is worth the risk, they should wait till next summer. Everybody''s risk tolerance is different.

The cap is expanding 7-10% each year. The cap could be around 30% larger in 3 years. Trust and believe, i want us to get a good deal. I didn't think they were actually that far apart, $22 mill and $30 mill. But even if they settle at $25 mill, $26 mill, $27 mill, that's like a couple mill each way at $27 mill. A couple of mill difference will look smaller and smaller in 4 years. A lot of times, a deal has to leave both parties a little unhappy to get done.

[GuardianEnzo]

Everyone needs to chill. He'll sign for $26-27 AAV and everyone will say they won the deal.

[Infinity2152]

Everyone needs to chill. He'll sign for $26-27 AAV and everyone will say they won the deal.

Think that would be great. Sorry guys, not trying to start a fight. Didn't realize so many people had AK's back, lmao! Only thing we really know right now is for some reason Giddey's still unsigned. AK could be secretly Machiavelli.

This whole taking all day and waiting until October is kind of pointless though. Everybody talking about being professional, professionals should be able to come to an agreement. The situation is not going to change materially, AFAIK. A negotiation like this shouldn't take months, I can't see how that helps either side. Does Giddey not work out all summer to avoid getting injured without a contract?

And I'm not knocking anybody's opposing views just because I disagree. CLEARLY my views are disagreed with too and that's ok. Love, peace and hair grease.

[MikeDC]

I think this is very simple.
1. There are no other suitors for Giddey.
2. He's an RFA
3. Giddey rates out at about the 80-100th best player in the league. That's one of the worst "3rd best player on a team " in the league or one of the better "4th best players on a team". That's worth around $18-$25M a year.

Given his age (positive) and my belief about his ability to turn into anything more than what he is and be a playoff capable player (skeptical) I'd make may long term offer on the low end of that.

I'd offer him 5yrs and $120M and I'd offer him 3yrs and $75M. His choice. Otherwise, he can take the QO ($11.1M).

If I were Giddey, I'd take the 5/$120M. Leaving the guarantee on the table and taking the QO is not something any reasonable agent would advise.

For the 3yr vs 5 year, he's making an additional $6.5M over the first three years of his deal if he takes the 3yr contract, at the risk of $51M on his last 2 years. If I'm Giddey, what I really think is that he will reveal himself to be a middling player ... maybe full MLE... let's say about $20M.

If that's the case, if he takes the 3yr, then gets $40M total in years 4 and 5, he ends out at $115M.

If he takes the 5year deal, he ends out at $120M. So, this gives him an incentive to sign for less. Average for the contract would be about $24M/yr.

I don't really love that for the Bulls simply because I'm not enthusiastic about Giddey, but I don't think he kills us at either number.

[CROBulls]

Everyone needs to chill. He'll sign for $26-27 AAV and everyone will say they won the deal.

Think that would be great. Sorry guys, not trying to start a fight. Didn't realize so many people had AK's back, lmao! Only thing we really know right now is for some reason Giddey's still unsigned. AK could be secretly Machiavelli.

This whole taking all day and waiting until October is kind of pointless though. Everybody talking about being professional, professionals should be able to come to an agreement. The situation is not going to change materially, AFAIK. A negotiation like this shouldn't take months, I can't see how that helps either side. Does Giddey not work out all summer to avoid getting injured without a contract?

And I'm not knocking anybody's opposing views just because I disagree. CLEARLY my views are disagreed with too and that's ok. Love, peace and hair grease.

Giddey is waiting for some team to open capspace. That's only thing that can leverage him. So that team can sign him to RFA offer and Bulls match it.

[HomoSapien]

The stalemate between Giddey and the Bulls continues into another week as the market for restricted free agents remains cold. Giddey was present in Las Vegas and had lunch with Bulls coach Billy Donovan, sources told ESPN, and Bulls executives were scheduled to meet with Giddey's agent during the week.

Multiple sources told ESPN they expect Giddey and the Bulls to eventually come to a contract agreement, and the two sides have had some positive discussions. Yet, Giddey has been seeking a contract for approximately $30 million annually. With little cap space available this summer, Giddey's options for alternatives outside of Chicago dried up quickly, giving the Bulls leverage to hold off for a more team-friendly deal. -- Collier

[League Circles]

I'd wait til the day before the deadline for a deal whenever that is, and only then slowly go up from whatever offer I've already made (if they've even made a formal offer above the QO) to 30 million per year flat with no raises for 5 years with a PO for year 5 if needed.

[League Circles]

Hard to see a human being turning down 150 million guaranteed.