RealGM 2025 Greatest Peaks Project #2 — 1974 Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

[70sFan]

If Shaq was some kind of Duncan stopper then Duncan wouldn't have dropped 28ppg on the Lakers in 03 on 529 FG%, or 29ppg on 513 FG% in 99. It wasn't so much that Shaq was a tough defensive presence in the post (though in general he was), it was that in 02 Duncan had absolutely nothing around him and it was easier to double him.

Duncan absolutely abused Shaq in 99 and 03. In 02 he outplayed him too, he just wasn't as efficient because he was guarding Shaq on one end and then getting doubled on the other.

Duncan outplaying Shaq and struggling against his coverage are not mutually exclusive.

I will provide my 2003 numbers later, but Shaq didn't guard Duncan that much in that series. Neither he did in 1999.

Again, if I find enough time I will provide data and clips. For now, you can watch these 2002 possessions and decide for yourself:

Watch on YouTube

Here is Shaq as well:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I hope someone will watch it before coming to conclusions.

REALLY GREAT VIDEO AND COLLECTION OF CLIP FOR AN EASIER STUDYING.

I will try to track it down for my own analysis and if people wanna read and watch at the same time.( The first and longest Clip )
Duncan Scoring when Shaq is the primary+secondary defender on him:

P1 - Duncan blowby the prerimeter defender and meet Shaq at the rim. Shaq contest and block Duncan attempt bucket. Duncan retain possession and try another shot which Shaq contest again make Duncan miss. ( 2 contest shot - 0/2 FGA )
P2 - Duncan get a bounce pass at the post area. Shaq in paint but doesn't closeout on Duncan ( lazy pickup ). Duncan still missed ( 0/1 FGA )
P3 - Shaq lazy let Duncan openly cut to baskest for a Putback Dunk ( 1/1 FGA )
P4 - Duncan receive the ball near post/wing. With Shaq face up guard him. Duncan fake many time and drive on Shaq pushing him back for a layup ( 1 contest - 1/1 FGA )
P5 - Duncan get ball on wing pass inside. Shaq doesn't deny Duncan lane who cut and put the shot back in ( 1/1 FGA )
P6 - Duncan post up another player and spin pass him when Shaq came up as help defender to block shot. Duncan get rebound Shaq is the help defender to contest shot for 2 more attempt ( 3 help Contest - 0/3 FGA )
P7 - Duncan get ball in post try to post Shaq up but Shaq doesn't move. Force Duncan to make tough shot and miss ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P8 - Duncan have the ball in Wing area with Shaq on him. Duncan see a sizable gap so he pull up midrange ( 1 lazy contest - 1/1 FGA )
P9 - Duncan have ball In paint with Shaq deny position and another laker doubling force Duncan pass ball out.
P10 - Shaq face up guard Duncan at ft line and block the driving lane. Duncan shoot a midrange which Shaq contest ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P11 - Duncan got ball on short corner try to dribble inside with Shaq covering miss a short midrange ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P12 - Duncan have ball in paint with Shaq slowing him down. Then another Lakers come double force Duncan pass.
P13 - Duncan get ball at wing then drive on Shaq but Shaq force him to a guard which able to steal Duncan ball
P14 - in Transition Duncan bring ball up see Shaq leaving too much room at elbow so Duncan pull up midrange ( 1 lazy contest - 1/1 FGA )
P15 - Duncan have ball in post but too slow to make decisions cause Shaq is on him then Kobe come double force Duncan to pass
P16 - Duncan with ball play PnP near the paint then Shaq come up the rim to help contest shot ( 1 help contest - 0/1 FGA )
P17 - Duncan drive to the paint then Shaq come help Contest. Duncan get rebound but Shaq stay tight on him force Duncan TOV with a guard steal. ( 1 Help contest - 0/1 FGA )
P18- Shaq on Duncan offball but Shaq switch to contest another player who fake then pass to Duncan in paint for a shot ( 1/1 FGA )
P 19 - Duncan receive ball in post so Shaq go help as secondary interior defender force
Duncan TOV
P 20 - Duncan get ball in post Shaq try help cut the passing lane but loses in man who Duncan dump the ball to for a lay up.
P21- Duncan with ball on wing with Shaq putting pressure on the ball and force TOV with his hand and strength
P22 - Duncan in post with Shaq Deny entry to the rim. Duncan pump fake many time the dribble inside for a foul.
P23 - Duncan get ball near elbow pump fake then pull up on Shaq who contest shot ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P24 - Duncan attempt drive but Shaq tight coverage. Duncan pass ball out
P25 - Duncan drive by his defender then Shaq come pickup to contest shot at rim ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P26 - Duncan posture Shaq from wing to post Area then spin move rise up for a contested bank shot ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P27 - Duncan get ball at up ft line see Shaq a bit too far to close out so he pull up miss shot ( 1 Lazy Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P28 - Duncan post up pump fake which Shaq bite then drive in for a layup but missed ( 0/1 FGA )
P29 - Duncan try to post Shaq in paint area with a soft double on him. Force Duncan TOV
P30 - Duncan face up game on Shaq pump fake fora moment then pull up midrange on Shaq ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P31 - Duncan bring ball up then play PnP then pull up off screen which Shaq try to contest but tit was a lob pass.
P32 - Shaq on Duncan in ft line area. Shaq get screen then decide to drop leave Duncan for a midrange Missed.
P33 - Shaq deny Duncan positioning for a moment so a double team come on Duncan but it a foul
P34 - in Transition Duncan get leave wild open at 3 pt line which he make the shot.
P35 - Duncan post up shat to the paint attempt to raise up but Shaq hit ball out his hand for a TOV
P36 - Duncan move off ball to get pass at elbow then drive on Shaq who foul Duncan
P37 - Duncan attempt post the raise up to pass for an assist.
P38 - Duncan get pass at elbow then he drive to meet Shaq contest at rim. Shaq foul Duncan
P39 - Duncan receive ball at wing with Shaq on him. Shaq get screen but still edge to contest the midrange ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P40 - Duncan get ball at wing then he drive thru Shaq nearly a blowby but get foul near paint but a Lakers.
P41 - in Transition Duncan run pass Shaq to the rim and get an alley oop dunk
P42 - Shaq help Deny driving lane of a guard the. Switch on Duncan to contest his drive layup ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P 43 - DUNCAN Post-up Shaq then saw double team coming so Duncan reset. Post-up raise up on Shaq who contest but foul.
P44 - Duncan cannot post up Shaq so he decided to pass but is too slow to deliver and get the ball stole by Kobe who help double
P45 - Duncan get ball short Corner with Shaq on him see Kobe come double but make a bad pass TOV
P46 - Duncan face up game on shaq at post. Then pullups for a bucket ( 1 Lazy contest - 1/1 FGA )
P47 - Duncan go screen PnP but Shaq is guarding with drop coverage. Duncan see space so he pull up on Shaq lazy contest but Miss ( 1 Lazy Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P 48 - Duncan face up on Shaq then drive but Shaq contest shot hit it to Lakers teammates ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P 49 - Duncan face up Shaq. Pump fake which Shaq bite a bit then drive by for layup but Shaq ablz to block from behind ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P50 - Shaq leaving Duncan offball to go in paint. Duncan get ball at ft line then shot it on Shaq contest ( 1 Lazy Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P51 - Duncan post up Shaq see double coming so he pass out to Prerimeter for an assist
P52 - Duncan go screen for PnP which Shaq is using drop coverage. Duncan get ball then shot but Missed ( 0/1 FGA )
P53 - Shaq overcommitted on help Duncan get ball drive inside Shaq jump contest but Duncan fake then sneak in easy layup ( 1/1 FGA )
P54 - Duncan get ball try a dunk but Shaq help block from behind ( 1 contest - 1/1 FGA )
P55 - Duncan get ball at 3pt line then drive on Shaq but get triple due to shot clock force to pass
P56 - Shaq hand up guard Duncan at ft line but Duncan see opening bounce pass in rim for Assist
P57 - Shaq on Duncan but get screen but Shaq still cover Duncan tight. Duncan try drive lay up but get block by shaq
P58 - Duncan postup drive on Shaq but missed ( 1 Lazy Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P59 - Shaq is ball watching loses Duncan offball who able to get rebound and put back ( 1/1 FGA )

Overall
Contest ( primary defender ) - 15
Lazy contest ( primary defender ) - 7
Help Contest ( secondary ) - 5
D-FGA ( both primary and secondary defender )- 33
D- FGM ( both primary and secondary defender ) - 12
D-FG ( both primary and secondary defender ) -> 12/33 or o.364 FG%


Some of Duncan miss shot could be argue that Shaq didn't contribute to those cause of his lazy contest or Playing drop while Duncan play PnP but I counted it in the total from the video. And not be counted as D-FG in favor of Shaq ( if you wanna have different PoV you need to watch the clip )

Overall summarize - Shaq was elite against Duncan in the post and paint area to deny Duncan positioning or driving lane and being physical enough to push Duncan out of his comfort zone. But Shaq also have his weakness which Duncan able to exploit at the prerimeter or when he play off the ball as cutter + PnP.

I am glad you made a use of my video. Would you mind doing similar breakdown for Shaq against Duncan?

[OhayoKD]

For Kareem, 77 seems to be the year most are going with. I get that the nature of his rise in the playoffs is noticeable here, but I have a hard time with the optics of choosing as a peak season one in which his team was swept out of the playoffs.

Fwiw.

1) Kareem played that series without his best and second best teammate
2) The bucks lost by an average of 5 points with the last 3 games all being close

It seems quite possible then the Lakers had the capacity to beat those Trailblazers, a dominant champion, with a healthy team.

Since Kareem's play is obviously not what caused those two injuries, I do then think it might be worth considering this potentially health-induced hypothetical where 77 Jabbar would have

-> Led the league's arguable best regular-season team, their "full-health" srs was good enough #1 for whatever amount of stock you want to put into that.
-> Beaten a recent champion that were a game off being back to back finalists (with one of his best teammates hobbled while the other was out)
-> Beaten the league's best team led by the only arguably comparable player of the period

And. He would have done that
-> Having joined what was a 30-win team before they gutted their roster to get him.

How much you wish to weigh that hypothetical is up to you, but I think it speaks to Kareem's impact, corraborated by a 30-win (20-win srs) drop-off in one the worst years of his prime where his friends were murdered in his house, and a ginormous rookie-turnaround.

[Top10alltime]

Player #1: Bill Russell 1964

Best defense we've ever seen. Led the league in rebounding in the RS and then again in the PS (and went from like 25 to 27 rpg). Captained the team to a title with his dominant performance, after leading his team to the best record in the RS. We've never seen anything like Russell's era-relative impact defensively, nor anything like his team dominance. I don't subscribe to the idea that we should ignore earlier eras due to the differences between then and now, and Russell's run is the most dominant in league history, authored on the back of what he did as a rebounder and defender (and passer, at that).

Player #2: Magic Johnson 1990

Not quite Magic's scoring peak, but on top of his usual, he was bombing 3s, crushing it at the line, was a dominant playmaker, fully matured in his post game. One of his MVP seasons, and well-earned. An absolute unit leading another insane offense in his first season without Kareem.


Player #3: Nikola Jokic 2023

The wildest offensive RS we've ever seen, IMHO. A 25/12/10 season on 70% TS that turned into 30/14/10 still on 63% TS en route to a title and Finals MVP. Should have been the MVP. An insane mix of post game, shooting ability, court vision, rebounding and so forth.

HM: Kareem in several seasons, and too many others to mention, really. Lots of great choices, including others nominated.

What makes Bill Russell a higher peak than his contemporary, Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt is a sub-GOAT lvl defender (anchoring defense ATG, interior defense (rim+post), weak side, cleaner, recovery, physicality, roamer is all great aspects of Wilt's defense from what I've seen). So any gap that Bill Russell has defensively is covered by Wilt's offense

Wilt's offense is a top 20-25 offensive peak of all time in that same season you're citing as Bill's peak (he led mediocre offense, but with garbage help on his team. His playmaking skills is on the OK side, but what makes him good at it is how his gravity (off-ball and on-ball), is going to leave open teammates (usually open off of bad teammates like guy rodgers).

But what we have is t10-15 scorer ever (his interior scoring is like that, on sub-GOATish gravity), him with his offensive rebounding is getting a lot of good for putback shots, he is a great 1 on 1 scorer, etc.


So why is BR over Wilt peak for peak, according to you?

[f4p]

Jamal Murray who was putting 2001 Kobe number in the playoffs.

murray had a nice little playoffs but he's at:

21.6 PER, 0.181 WS48, 4.8 BPM

compared to 2001 kobe's:

25.0 PER, 0.260 WS48, 6.5 BPM

and i know this was a post about offense, but obviously murray wasn't even close to 2001 kobe on defense.

[One_and_Done]

Jamal Murray who was putting 2001 Kobe number in the playoffs.

murray had a nice little playoffs but he's at:

21.6 PER, 0.181 WS48, 4.8 BPM

compared to 2001 kobe's:

25.0 PER, 0.260 WS48, 6.5 BPM

and i know this was a post about offense, but obviously murray wasn't even close to 2001 kobe on defense.

Jamal Murray's 2023 per100 playoff numbers: 33/7/9 on 586 TS%.

2001 playoffs Kobe per100: 35/9/7 on 555 TS%

Just on the stats it's close. Certainly impressive at any rate.

[f4p]

2) 1991 Jordan (1990 > 1989 > 1988 > 1996)

Regular season box score triple crown. Postseason box score triple crown. Postseason numbers only behind 2009 Lebron. best ever +18.3 career playoff on/off so we can have plenty of confidence that he's having massive impact, even if we'll probably never have his full data-ball profile. massive offensive impact as well. Team only loses 2 games in the playoffs and he completes it all with a 31 ppg, 11 apg finals where he shoots 56% from the field and basically ends the 80's nba. Really just a continuation of the 88-90 peak seasons but with the added benefit of a 15-2 title run. basically as perfect as a season can get.

3) 2001 Shaq (2000)

Most people pick 2000 Shaq because it was a fairly flawless regular season with a statistically dominant postseason. But 2000 Shaq was a Trailblazer collapse from blowing a 3-1 lead in the WCF and had 14 points in that game 7 with 2 minutes left. I think that was still a "am I sure I can win a ring" Shaq and 2001 was just letting it all out Shaq. I know I said the regular season matters and the Lakers definitely let off the gas pedal on defense, but people tend to treat 2001 Shaq like he just slept through the regular season. He led the league in PER (30.2 vs 30.6 in 2000), led the league in BPM, and was 2nd in WS48 by 0.001 (and to Robinson so not really a person people would rank #1 that season). So as close to a triple crown as possible.

And then of course the real story. The 2001 playoffs. While the biggest delta from the 2000 Lakers is obviously Kobe having his best playoffs ever, it's still hard to not see it as Shaq's crowning achievement. Best player on the best playoff team ever seems like a big deal, especially since that team didn't have a 3rd, much less 4th star. By the box score numbers, 2000 and 2001 are close in the playoffs and thanks to weird garbage time minutes in Games 3 and 4 against the spurs, Shaq ends up with a 0 on/off, but playing 43 mpg for the most dominant playoff team ever while averaging 30/15 was just as much destruction as we've ever seen (and I don't think anyone thinks the 2001 Lakers were secretly a +11, 15-1 playoff team whether Shaq played or not as the on/off would indicate, especially since it comes in the middle of 4 years of +18.3 on/off and then 3 more years of +21.5 on/off). The most dominant playoffs ever for a team, especially if we account for Kawhi's 2017 injury juicing the Warriors numbers.

The 2001 WCF is the most dominant playoff series ever by a team. I think we determined in another thread that only 2010 Orlando vs Atlanta had a higher PSRS for a series and I think they were the only 2 to reach +30 for a series. But let's be real, slaughtering the 2010 Hawks and slaughtering the 2001 Spurs are not the same thing. Smashing a +8.6 NRtg team by +25 is just not supposed to happen. I don't think 2001 Shaq let's Portland almost win the WCF or even get to Game 7.

4) 1967 Wilt

Wins the box score double crown (no BPM, but almost certainly would have led it). Seemingly blends his reduced scoring and high efficiency without nuking his scoring like in later seasons. his 68.3 FG% leads the league by an almost impossible 16% over bellamy at 52.1%. even his 72.7% season "only" led by 15.7% and he was basically going out of his way to preserve his FG% in that season. just to put it in perspective, his TS Add this season of 441.5 is higher than in his 50 ppg season (430.3). and it's only not higher than that because he couldn't shoot free throws any more. his FG Add of 555.7 actually crushes the FG Add from 1962 of 502.7. doing it on basically half the volume is just providing so much offensive lift in so few possessions.

gets lots of assists but by all accounts not in a "i want to lead the league in assists" kind of way. by all accounts, his defense is still top tier.

and of course from a team perspective, his team wins the most games in nba history up to that point, only surpassed by himself 5 years later and not topped again until Jordan in 1996. the 8.5 SRS i'm fairly certain was the record up to that point, and it's before the ABA dilutes everything.

and of course, the pièce de résistance. beats a +7.2 celtics team by 10 ppg, a beating like they had never taken in the russell era, and completely stomps russell in a way that had never been done.

21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg on 55.6 FG% compared to russell's 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg on 35.8 FG%. nearly doubled his nemesis in points and assists, nearly 10 ahead in rebounds and an unbelievable 20% ahead in field goals. that's basically hakeem's offensive domination of david robinson and defensive domination of patrick ewing combined into one series.

the best team season in history to that point, with probably the perfect blend of all of wilt's skills, topped with a domination of his archrival. not going to get much better than that.

[Doctor MJ]

Just some thoughts about candidates to enter my ballot (previously Jordan, LeBron, and Russell) now that LeBron is inducted:

- I would rate peak Wilt ahead of anyone else up through the 60s.

- in the 70s hard not to go with Kareem, though I’m going to circle back to that ‘77 season later in the post.

- In the 80s, Magic’s my guy though I do think Bird’s been underrated in recent years.

- In the 90s, Hakeem.

- The 00s are tricky for me. Shaq’s apex was basically universally agreed as the standard at the time and understandably so. But I believe the extent of his dominance was so much about decisions the NBA was making at that time with things like Illegal Defense and a failure of imagination in the part of opposing.

- This then to say that I consider Garnett and Duncan to be generally better basketball talents than Shaq, but Shaq had the edge based on what NBA basketball was decided to be in that moment.

- In the 10s, definitely Steph for me. Only LeBron pushed to his absolute final form was able to stop the Warriors from the most successful season in history, and of course they can back the next year and playoff-wise, were even better. Sure they got KD and KD is awesome, but I think we all know at this point (except maybe KD) that you can’t just throw talent together and be the best team in NBA history. Credit to all involved for being a part of it, and for me, Steph was that main guy.

- In the 20s, the debate for me would be between Jokic and Shai. I’ve never called Shai the better player, but he was my MVP/POY choice last year over a Jokic who is in prime. Does it make sense to favor Jokic 23 over Jokic 25? Chip says yes…but did Jokic get worse? I dunno bout that.

Okay, let me head back to 1977, where that Blazer playoff run (along with the even better play next year before losing Walton), with its surprise sweep of LA, was incredible.

So here’s the thing to me:

While it’s absolutely fair to say Kareem’s supporting cast was lacking in 1977,

1. Defense was all through this time the way to win chips, generally by having the best defensive big…and I believe Walton was the superior defensive big.

2. In general, I just think Walton had that tippy top tier awareness on the floor, and Kareem didn’t. Kareem is a very intelligent man and always has been, but intellect and BBIQ just aren’t the same thing.

3. While Walton wasn’t the only one who could play the offensive pivot the way coach Ramsay decided to have his team play in Portland, Ramsay chose to play that way because of Walton, and I don’t have any particular reason to think Kareem was suited for the role or even the offensive scheme.

All this then to say that while Kareem could have had better teammates, his teammates aren’t the reason the Blazers looked like THAT. That Blazer team when they were cooking was to me the most impressive team we saw in the mid-to-late 70s and was poised to not just repeat but 3-peat if they could just roughly keep doing what they were doing.

Now, 3-peat stops just short of the arrival of Bird and Magic, and of course the time frame I included avoided the 70 Knicks, 71 Bucks, and 72 Lakers.

I’m not comfortable saying that the ‘77 Blazers were better than the best we saw with Kareem, and that makes me reluctant to champion peak Walton over peak Kareem.

But it gets awkward when people focus on ‘77 Kareem as Peak Kareem for the reasons I’ve said.

As well as the fact that the WOWY dat from the period really favors Walton.

I think to some degree here we’re talking about a LeBron-like situation where his peak general impact came early (1971 and 2009 respectively), he reached the peak of his 2-way capacity a bit later (1977, 2013), but then had the crowning team success later (1980. 2016).

LeBron just got voted in for 2013, which makes a lot of sense and predicts a 1977 preference for Kareem, but unlike 2013 LeBron, I don’t actually think Kareem was having the most impact in 1977.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elpolo_14]

If Shaq was some kind of Duncan stopper then Duncan wouldn't have dropped 28ppg on the Lakers in 03 on 529 FG%, or 29ppg on 513 FG% in 99. It wasn't so much that Shaq was a tough defensive presence in the post (though in general he was), it was that in 02 Duncan had absolutely nothing around him and it was easier to double him.

Duncan absolutely abused Shaq in 99 and 03. In 02 he outplayed him too, he just wasn't as efficient because he was guarding Shaq on one end and then getting doubled on the other.

Duncan outplaying Shaq and struggling against his coverage are not mutually exclusive.

I will provide my 2003 numbers later, but Shaq didn't guard Duncan that much in that series. Neither he did in 1999.

Again, if I find enough time I will provide data and clips. For now, you can watch these 2002 possessions and decide for yourself:

Watch on YouTube

Here is Shaq as well:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I hope someone will watch it before coming to conclusions.

I did some tracking base on 70sfan of Duncan scoring while Shaq was the primary+secondary defender. Now I will to it for the opposite side - Shaq Scoring with Duncan on Him :

* First Video*
P1 - Shaq get ball in the paint and bully Duncan back. The Spurs send triple team. Shaq raise up for layup with Duncan contesting MISSED. Get rebound try a Putback still miss due to Duncan pressure. Shaq get rebound again but this Time he dunk the ball in. ( 3 Contest - 1/3 FGA )
P2 - Shaq receive the ball at Elbow post up Duncan to the inside then attempt a finger roll but missed while Duncan was cover him tight. ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P3 - Duncan Guarding Shaq at the post but Shaq overpower Him for a Duncan at the rim ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P4 - Shaq with ball in post Duncan try his best to slow Shaq down but it doesn't work the Spurs send soft triple. But Shaq attempt a shot anyway missed ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P5 - Shaq trying to post up Duncan but this time Duncan hold his own and force Shaq to drive to the Spurs help double which make Shaq TOV
P6 - Shaq get ball in post area. Back down Duncan for 2 step then he see triple team running towards him. So he attempt a shot missed ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P7 - Shaq get ball in post with Duncan on him tight. Shaq dribble a bit then suddenly get Double team. He shot but missed due to contest ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P8 - Shaq receive the pass at the Elbow. He post Duncan back then drive float Duncan able to recover and contest the Shot ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P9 - in Transition Kobe pass to Shaq 1-1 with Duncan in the paint. Duncan immediately Foul Shaq
P10 - Shaq and Duncan fighting for positioning inside the paint offball. Then Shaq able to get ball but see double suddenly come. So he pass for a near assisted 3 pt
P11 - Shaq get ball in paint Duncan try to cover him but Shaq spin move inside. 2 other Spurs come collapse on Shaq. Shaq raise up for a dunk but get foul by Duncan.
P12 - Shaq post Duncan to the paint then get triple Team. But Shaq able to create enough separation to jump up and shot a floater ( 1/1 FGA )
P13 - Shaq run to the paint and get the ball with Duncan on. Immediately spin move raise up to shoot - Duncan jump contest force a miss ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P14 - Kobe is posting and attempt shot Missed. Shaq able to split thru Duncan inside to get rebound. He try to Putback but get foul first
P15 - in Transition Shaq offball posting Duncan. Then he spin move inside to catch an alley OOP ( 1/1 FGA )
* Second Video*
P16 - Shaq is bullying Duncan inside so Spurs send a Triple team around Shaq. Shaq attempt a shot anyway but get Foul
P17 - in transition Shaq receive the ball 1-1 with Duncan. Shaq overpower Duncan and make him fall to the ground. Easy layup ( 1/1 FGA )
P18 - Shaq Post up then dribble to the arch pass a Help defender. The Shoot with Duncan contesting ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P19 - Shaq drive in thru Duncan. He get double and foul while in shot motion.
P20 - Shaq get ball in rim post down Duncan and split the double team to raise up but get foul
P21 - Shaq get ball try to post but this time Duncan able to hold position. Shaq shot it over the contest ( 1 contest - 1/1 FGA )
P22 - Shaq receive ball in post. He post up Duncan then shake one side but spin to the other for a lay up off the glass ( 1 contest - 1/1 FGA )
P23- Shaq post up Duncan but quickly raise up due to shot clock missed ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P24 - Shaq get ball drive pump fake which Duncan bite. Then Shaq try a dunk but got foul by another Spurs.
P25 - Kobe pass to Shaq in paint. Shaq try to post Duncan but see a double coming so he make a shot attempt ( 1 contest - 0/1 FGA )
P26 - Shaq in post with Duncan and 2 other Spurs inside for help. Shaq post to the rim the shot missed. Get rebound and able to make shot off Duncan contest ( 2 contest - 1/2 FGA )
P27 - Duncan 1-1 with Shaq not able to back down. Force a tough shot missed ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P28 - Shaq post Duncan who try his best to hold his ground. But Shaq back him to the rim for an floater ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P29 - Shaq Post-up but Duncan force Shaq to drive on a Spurs help but Shaq able to raise up for a floater ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P30 - Duncan put all his weight on Shaq Post-up. Shaq decided to spin out and shoot floater over Duncan ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P31 - Shaq Boxout to get rebound against Duncan. And he make a Putback Dunk ( 1/1 FGA )
P32 - Shaq PnR with Kobe. Shaq roll inside but hit Duncan so offensive Foul.
P33 - Shaq get the entry pass but got double. Attempt a shot anyway ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P34- in Transition. Shaq - Duncan in paint so Kobe try to pass to Shaq but Duncan foul Shaq first.
P35 - Shaq post spin move for a floater. Duncan get overpower (( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P36 - Shaq get pass from Kobe in paint. He get double attempt shot Missed then raise up again this time Duncan doesn't contest but Shaq missed ( 1 contest - 0/2 FGA )
P37 - Shaq PnR with Kobe. Duncan come upt o guard Shaq. But Shaq drive thru Duncan for a layup ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P38 - Shaq get a handoff pass try to dunk but Duncan block from behind ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P39 - Shaq get Kobe pass in paint. Try to dunk but Duncan block it from the front this time ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P40 - Shaq post then attempt a hook shot on Duncan missed ( 0/1 FGA )
P41 - Shaq post Duncan but get offensive Foul
P42 - Shaq post up Duncan who put all the weight on. So Shaq able to spin inside but get foul
P43 - Shaq receive ball with Duncan on him. See double so pass ball out. Duncan go help defending a drive leaving Shaq who got the pass for a Dunk ( 1/1 FGA )
P44 - in semi transition Shaq post up Duncan then spin out for a hook shot ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P45 - Shaq post to the inside rim but Duncan able to contest the shot enough to make Shaq missed ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P46 - Shaq get ball the. Spin move inside for layup missed with Duncan contesting. But able to get rebound for another laying up ( 1 Contest - 1/2 FGA )
P47 - Shaq run to the other post side to get pass then raise up for a contested floater ( 1 Contest - 0/1 FGA )
P48 - SHAQ get ball post Duncan and make the shot and ONEEEEEEE ( 1 Contest - 1/1 FGA )
P49 - Shaq Post up get double pass out. The cut inside for the ball still get double by Duncan. But Shaq attempt a dunk got foul


Overall
- Contest - 29
- NO LAZY CONTEST AT ALL.
- D-FGA - 40
- D- FGM - 17
- D-FG -> 17/40 or 0.425 FG%

Summarize - Duncan able to hold is own against Shaq but still got overpower in many occasions. Forcing the Spurs to send help when they're on an island. Duncan in transition isn't able to guard Shaq very which resort to Foul many time. But Duncan discipline and Court awareness able to put Shaq in harder situation anytime and able to positioning himself great enough to force Shaq against a Spurs help.

[homecourtloss]

1. Kareem, 1977 (1974 > 1972)

Kareem is the only other player who has wide of a stretch of possible GOAT years. In 1977 he hits his offensive peak with inelastic efficiency and still a very good defender. He might be Even more impactful in 1972 or 1974, but I feel comfortable with this offensive peak and this year. Probably only Kareem and Wilt (maybe Duncan) can say they were the best offensive and defe dive player during a playoff run.

2. Duncan, 2003

Who was on this team creating this type of team? Duncan’s plus offense and GOAT level defense lifted a team to immense heights. I cannot think of very many scenarios in which this player wouldn't have the same results. Immense lift on both sides of the ball especially the playoffs. great regular and post season in which he shouldered a heavy load and didn’t falter. Impact metrics look great, especially in the playoffs. Defense is replicable in many different eras while his offense was continuously resilient throughout the playoffs.

3. 1991 Jordan (1990 > 1989) Contention for GOAT season. Jordan’s playmaking abilities and offensive awareness grew while his athleticism remained. TOV economy was incredible


Shaq, Wilt, Russ, and Hakeem up next.

[VanWest82]

I thought Kareem absolutely killed it for a somehow both old and not quite ready Lakers team that first year before Allen and Chaney. That was his last superhero year before significantly scaling things back in 77 (less mins, less rebounds, less shots, less everything). It's not clean because they missed the playoffs but I'd argue 76 was his peak.

Also, I'm not sure how exactly we should measure something like that. Team success has to matter to some degree, and clearly it didn't work. I legit don't know what to do with it. How's that for a bad argument.

91 Jordan
00 Shaq
76 Kareem (74 > 72)

[falcolombardi]

I thought Kareem absolutely killed it for a somehow both old and not quite ready Lakers team that first year before Allen and Chaney. That was his last superhero year before significantly scaling things back in 77 (less mins, less rebounds, less shots, less everything). It's not clean because they missed the playoffs but I'd argue 76 was his peak.

Not unlikely, but unfortunately seeing how a player combines regular season amd playoffs is a important part of how we evaluate peaks

[Elpolo_14]

I thought Kareem absolutely killed it for a somehow both old and not quite ready Lakers team that first year before Allen and Chaney. That was his last superhero year before significantly scaling things back in 77 (less mins, less rebounds, less shots, less everything). It's not clean because they missed the playoffs but I'd argue 76 was his peak.

Also, I'm not sure how exactly we should measure something like that. Team success has to matter to some degree, and clearly it didn't work. I legit don't know what to do with it. How's that for a bad argument.

91 Jordan
00 Shaq
76 Kareem

Is the reasoning to put 1976 Kareem instead of 1977 self because of the box stat? If that the case why not selecting 1971 and 1972 which were monstrous in box stat and still have playoff sample size.

[VanWest82]

I thought Kareem absolutely killed it for a somehow both old and not quite ready Lakers team that first year before Allen and Chaney. That was his last superhero year before significantly scaling things back in 77 (less mins, less rebounds, less shots, less everything). It's not clean because they missed the playoffs but I'd argue 76 was his peak.

Also, I'm not sure how exactly we should measure something like that. Team success has to matter to some degree, and clearly it didn't work. I legit don't know what to do with it. How's that for a bad argument.

91 Jordan
00 Shaq
76 Kareem

Is the reasoning to put 1976 Kareem instead of 1977 self because of the box stat? If that the case why not selecting 1971 and 1972 which were monstrous in box stat and still have playoff sample size.

I would call it increased load or role rather than box score, but yes, that's a big reason why 76 > 77 for me. Look at what he had to do on both ends for Lakers in 76 vs. 77. But I also thought he became a more resilient scorer and arguably better passer in the mid-late 70s. He was just a better player at that point which is why he looked better in 77 playoffs than some of the series in the early 70s.

[Elpolo_14]

I thought Kareem absolutely killed it for a somehow both old and not quite ready Lakers team that first year before Allen and Chaney. That was his last superhero year before significantly scaling things back in 77 (less mins, less rebounds, less shots, less everything). It's not clean because they missed the playoffs but I'd argue 76 was his peak.

Also, I'm not sure how exactly we should measure something like that. Team success has to matter to some degree, and clearly it didn't work. I legit don't know what to do with it. How's that for a bad argument.

91 Jordan
00 Shaq
76 Kareem

Is the reasoning to put 1976 Kareem instead of 1977 self because of the box stat? If that the case why not selecting 1971 and 1972 which were monstrous in box stat and still have playoff sample size.

I would call it increased load or role rather than box score, but yes, that's a big reason why 76 > 77 for me. Look at what he had to do on both ends for Lakers in 76 vs. 77. But I also thought he became a more resilient scorer and arguably better passer in the mid-late 70s. He was just a better player at that point which is why he looked better in 77 playoffs than some of the series in the early 70s.

That a fair and understandable reasoning.

Also what make you put Shaq above Kareem in this peak list

[BusywithBball]

Again tough decision. I think though I will go

Kareem first. Year 1971.

Jabbar predates me. I did not see Al Cindor at his fullest. So I depend greatly on other’s knowledge here. But it has been pointed out it is unfair to not consider one because you do not know. And I must agree.

I will say I am even less sure as in first vote but now I have more questions of Jordan’s defense. He is still good very good no doubt but if his most important trait is to shut down others I think it is concerning he could give up so much in the finals. He is great before as I think many ignored. But maybe he is not always shutdown and I also have concerns he doesn’t defend inside so well.

His defense is good but perhaps not that two-way incredible impact and I think then Kareem must be considered. if I will hold against Bill because it only comes from one side then I have to consider the reverse. I can concur with Kareem as the best of both. But I cannot with Michael as I today understand the game. I see Bill Russell also gets much earned respect but that seems too robotic. Must we forget everything we understand because a team misses the playoffs. I simply don’t think a player can be the best of all time with such a one-dimension skillset. But I cannot deny that he wins. So it also seems impossible to leave him off. I am unsure what to do.

Jordan second. Year 1991 still has incredible scoring and certainly good on other end. I have not much to say about the on/off or WOWY but it seems you might see him very differently depending on what one likes. But common sense. Magic is not better. Common sense matters too. It was widely agreed Bird was better. And even just starting it was clear to all Jordan was better than even Bird.”God disguised as Michael Jordan” from Larry Legend directly. Magic was great. But god? No.

Bill Russell third. Year 1962

I have many doubts. I think I was lost in narrative. As basketball is played Russell did not peak at the end even if we hold that last championship with most awe.



J

[trelos6]

I have a few seasons designated at an All Time Great level. Due to era differences, it’s hard to compare them directly. As such, if they were voted ahead of my picks, I wouldn’t be too bothered.

KG (2004 > 2003 > 2008). Yes, adding Cassell was a huge improvement for the Wolves, but KG was still the man in a top 5 offense. 24.9 pp75 on +3.1 rTS%, team rOrtg of +3. Top 6 regular season defense. 92 Drtg. Upped his Reb% and best Block% of his career (just about). +4.72 OPIPM, +3.35 DPIPM, +8.06 PIPM. 27.53 Wins Added. +8.9 xRAPM!


Kareem Abdul Jabbar (1977 > 1974 > 1973). 24.5 pp75 on +9.7 rTS%. Team rOrtg was +1.9. +5.25 OPIPM. Then there’s the playoffs. Kareem averaged a 30/16/4 on +14.9% with 1.3 steals and 3.8 blocks, going up against Bill Walton.
+2.86 DPIPM, overall +8.11 PIPM. 23.79 Wins Added. His team was pretty sub par, and he dragged them to the West finals, putting up big performance after big performance in the sweep.

Bill Russell (1964 > 1963 > 1962)

Anchored a -10.8 dRtg, the best defense in NBA history. Surrounding seasons were also dominant.
1962: -8.5 (T 5th all time)
1963: -8.5 (T 5th all time)
1964: -10.8 (1st all time)
1965: -9.4 (2nd all time)

Tim Duncan (2003 > 2002 > 2001)

Manu and Parker were young, D Rob was old. Duncan was amazing on both ends, doing it all for the Spurs. +3.83 OPIPM, +3.28 DPIPM. +7.11 PIPM. 26.99 Wins Added.


Wilt Chamberlain (1967 > 1964 > 1968). Wilt elevated his game to a more team focus, and the results are astounding. He can still score when required, but does so at a historic efficiency. His passing game opened up his teammates, and his team’s offense. Cunningham, Walker, Greer all benefit from Wilt’s unselfish play and have great years in their own right.


Steph Curry (2017 > 2016 > 2015). 27.4 pp75, +7.1 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +6.8. Top 6 playmaker. Playoffs; 28.5, +10.6%. But all of that means nothing. Teams were leaving Kevin Durant wide open because they were worried about Stephen Curry (6.3% wide open shots in 2016 vs 12.2% wide open shots in 2017 playoffs for KD). That is the definition of gravity. +8.21 OPIPM, +0.11 DPIPM, +8.32 PIPM. 21.6 Wins Added.


Larry Bird (1986 > 1987 > 1985). +4.51 OPIPM, +1.57 DPIPM. +6.08 PIPM. 21.12 Wins Added. Bird seems to get a bit of negativity for his playoff performances. Well, ‘84 and ‘86 his efficiency increased on his regular season form. Gets better as a passer. 24.2 pp75 on +3.9 rTS%. Team rOrtg +4.6. Second best offense in the playoffs.

Magic Johnson (1987 > 1988 > 1990). Best passer and playmaker in the league, by a significant margin. Starts to up his scoring volume also. 23.3 pp75, +6.4 rTS%. Team rOrtg +7.3. +5.57 OPIPM, +0.41 DPIPM. +5.98 PIPM. 18.74 Wins Added.


Shai Gilgeous Alexander (2025 > 2024). Top 10 playmaker. Anchored the #3 offense in the league, +5.8 rOrtg. 34.4 pp75 on +6.1 rTS% in the regular season, dropped to 29.4 pp75 on -0.2 rTS% in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic (2023 > 2025 > 2024). Best playmaker and passer in the league. 26.7 pp75 +12 rTS% in RS, 29pp75 +5 rTS% in the playoffs. +2.8 rOrtg. -0.6 dRtg. Up to +6 rOrtg in PS along with a -2.7 dRtg.


Giannis (2021 > 2020 > 2019). 30 pp75 +6.1 rTS% in RS, 29.5 pp75, +2.7 rTS% PS. Elite defensively.

This should round out the top 15.

[VanWest82]

Is the reasoning to put 1976 Kareem instead of 1977 self because of the box stat? If that the case why not selecting 1971 and 1972 which were monstrous in box stat and still have playoff sample size.

I would call it increased load or role rather than box score, but yes, that's a big reason why 76 > 77 for me. Look at what he had to do on both ends for Lakers in 76 vs. 77. But I also thought he became a more resilient scorer and arguably better passer in the mid-late 70s. He was just a better player at that point which is why he looked better in 77 playoffs than some of the series in the early 70s.

That a fair and understandable reasoning.

Also what make you put Shaq above Kareem in this peak list

I'm swayed by Shaq's relentless physicality in 2000 over Kareem's scoring efficiency. Him getting voted 2nd in DPOY was a nod to that imo, and even the drawn fouls advantage on the other end doesn't tell the whole story because those weren't normal fouls. Shaq wore you down. He was also +23 net on-off in that title run, so I'm inclined to forgive the post season efficiency drop off. I do think Kareem gets knocked here just a little because he didn't win while at his best in an era that wasn't exactly loaded with talent. It's not really fair but as I said I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

[70sFan]

I would call it increased load or role rather than box score, but yes, that's a big reason why 76 > 77 for me. Look at what he had to do on both ends for Lakers in 76 vs. 77. But I also thought he became a more resilient scorer and arguably better passer in the mid-late 70s. He was just a better player at that point which is why he looked better in 77 playoffs than some of the series in the early 70s.

That a fair and understandable reasoning.

Also what make you put Shaq above Kareem in this peak list

I'm swayed by Shaq's relentless physicality in 2000 over Kareem's scoring efficiency. Him getting voted 2nd in DPOY was a nod to that imo, and even the drawn fouls advantage on the other end doesn't tell the whole story because those weren't normal fouls. Shaq wore you down. He was also +23 net on-off in that title run, so I'm inclined to forgive the post season efficiency drop off. I do think Kareem gets knocked here just a little because he didn't win while at his best in an era that wasn't exactly loaded with talent. It's not really fair but as I said I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

Shaq has two main advantages over Kareem offensively - foul drawing and offensive rebounding. I think these two aspects of the game are important, but I always thought I am in the minority. I don't see anyone raving about Moses Malone peak here thanks to his even more impressive foul drawing and putback generation abilities.

All the other advantages are clearly overstated. Kareem at his peak had ridiculous inside gravity, he was excellent passer and playmaker for a center, he was extremely imposing physically, just in a different way than Shaq. He also has clear advantages over O'Neal, which are well known.

On top of that, I can't think of any advantage Shaq has on defensive end outside of post defense - which is again, rarely valued here. Outside of that, Kareem was better at basically everything.

I am not saying that Shaq over Kareem is wrong, I just find it hard to understand why it's such a popular view here.

[Top10alltime]

Alright imma vote since time is running out, and I don't know if I'll be able to complete my Kareem tracking in time....

2. 1976-77 Kareem (70-71, 71-72, 73-74, 79-80)

We have an ATG offensive and defensive player, having an incredible carry-job on both ends of the floor in the RS (mediocre LA goes to 53 wins).

It gets better in PO, with much worse situation without Kermit Washington and playing with injured Lucius Allen. Kareem then had to do everything for Lakers on both ends, to help cover for their team's defensive mistakes. He averaged 31.6 IA pts/75, 17.7 rpg, 3.7 IA ast/75 on +13.7 rTS. So with this comes a season with - GOAT lvl scoring, best in-league rebounder, and ATG defender, and great creator. This is leading to a GOAT lvl floor raising season, unlike one you will ever see.

According to 70sFan sample size, Kareem actually made a high amount of his skyhooks.

His skyhook efficiency was also absurd in sampled games. He made 35/56 attempts in sampled games, which given linear adjustment leads us to 62% on over 8 attempts per game.

He improved his strength so he can deal with centers and not struggle with players like Wilt and Thurmond, so then he went on to obliterate the player that is my 16th best peak of all time (77 Walton), here is some tracking from Falco showing this:

Spoiler:

I was so impressed with 77 kareem that i tracked one of his games agaunst walton to show how nuts he a actually was

https://youtu.be/pPGW5mfqnho

2:15 kareem blocks 7'2(?) Bill walton move, absurd reach

2:30 7'2 walton sits on kareem hip to deny him the skyhook, kareen punishes this easily for a easy basket. His counter game may not ve as flashy as hakeem's but is probably just as effective or more

3:00 small mistake by kareem to let walton easily pass tge ball over him to a cutter

3:16 notice how walton sells out to front kareem at the sacrifice of forgetting about rim protection, this is curry/shaq level defense warping when a team center gives up on defending the paint so he can slow down a isolation post up scorer

3:35 walton got the rebound but notice how kareem lenght stops a lay up, kareem was a steong rim protector

6:55 walton tries to front kareem but the entry pass is way too high and kareem too strong so he can move walton to make himselg space, finishes against the walton and teammated double team with ease by using the backboard

8:15 gets essentially soft tripled in the block by walton +2 portland players, recognizes this and throws a quick pass inside to the cutter, great defense deflects the pass but i though the pass was good

8:50 notice this sequence, kareem is essentiallt fronted by walton again who is more focused on kareem than the rim, kareem sets a high iq screen to free the running shooter and then quickly moves to gain rebounding position on walton before bill reacts

9:15 walton overplays the skyhook again and gets easily burned with the counter move, bill is basically a prop against Kareem scoring

9:35 not a bad effort in a vacuum, but this is an area where a russel, garnett or hakeem probably at least gets and attempt to block that in a chase down and may ruin the basket

11:40 walton fronts kareem again, kareem brilliantlt counters this with a quick moce to the other block for a instant layup, brilliant counter

12:40 first skyhook of the night, nothingh but net, notice he moves off ball to receive in a good angle and inmediately throws the shot no time wasted and still comes perfect

13:00 hwre i think kareem can receive a small criticism for not being mor3 proactive ar denying walton the entry pass or trying to push him away before he can receive in position, he has th3 strenght for it but doesnt use it

13:10 great read in the pass slightly off the mark and gets deflected

15:15 this sequence shows walton edge as a passer, notice how is a tougher passing angle made in an instant to avoid kareem long arms, walton probably hits the pass at 13:10

15:30 walton is so desperate to deny kareem skyhook that he overplays his left side (essentially fronting him) and kareem easily scores again of the quick turn and catch and quickly shooting against help, evenwalton is essentially powerless to slow down kareem scoring

18:05 notice the soft triple team to prevent the pass to kareem on the block

18:55 this was a laker basket but is a minor criticism i have on kareem, he more or less walks after tge missed shot and doesnt join the fast break, another big may have ran the court and got a easy score there whereas fiest quarter kareem didnt put in the effort

19:10 Kareem dhalsim-esque reach gets him another easy block

20:10 Kareem absurd mr fantastic reach gives him a offensive rebound most 7 footers couldn't reach for and a immediate skyhook on poor Walton

This all happens in a single quarter but the whole game is worth watching

Kareem goes like 90% from the field in this game which is admittedly unusual

Notice that lakers get away with kareem guarding walton on a island effectively (he doesn't completely shut Walton down but makes him live of tough shots) and Walton and blazers sell out to prevent Kareem of even catching and he still burns them for their troubles

There are some possessions later on the game where Walton stays glued to Kareem face and lets open driving lanes to lakers players, others where kareem easily pushes fronting walton to make himself space to catch (there is one mentioned above) open jumpers from multiple blazers players staying close to Kareem

Kareem essentially requires bill walton and multiple blazers attention before even catching and still manages to easily score

In the defensive end his rim protection deters blazers players from driving (almost all their shots inside come from Walton passes to cutters when kareem is away of the hoop guarding him or off lakers turnovers and fastbreaks) and he gets tons of blocks and contested shots inside

His passing is solid and willing although sometimes a bit slow or off the mark

+++rim protection

+++ 1vs1 defense

+++++ 1vs1 scoring

+++ off ball movement to score

+++ rebounding defense and offense

++ passer (sometimes a tad slow to pass before the layup/open jumper vanishes or the pass is slightly imprecise, but the vision is strong)

- for sometimes not putting effort in loose-ball situations or running in fastbreaks (both offense and defense), somewhat stationary in the paint but this may be by design

(Will edit my 77 Kareem vs Warriors tracking later)


3. 1999-00 Shaq (97-98, 00-01, 01-02)


Another big man in Shaq, tough choice between Kareem and Shaq, ultimately I lean Kareem due to much better defense, but I will admit that Shaq has a case, with his sub-GOAT tier offensive game, and with him still being a DPOY level defender.

Shaquille O'Neal's game is about him on the post/rim. As we know he can't stretch the floor well even like other bigs, so he relied on working for post position. Also exposed mismatches well in post, great iso player there. A great offensive rebounder, also an efficient scorer (Shaq RS: 30.3 IA pts/75 on +5.5 rTS, Shaq in PO: 29.9 IA pts/75 on +3.9 rTS). Shaq drawing fouls generating baskets did help, but it made him easier to scheme against.

Also I value his gravity, opening up floor for teammates, giving him much more value as a playmaker. He is one of the best off-ball playmakers ever in this season as well, due to his gravity. Here is what that led to, by my tracking of 00 Shaq Finals Game 2 (surprisingly, his defense isn't all that great, making me lower on this Shaq) -

My 00 Shaq tracking for the g2 finals

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l9iM2mTvPlZvpOmr3epz0MkLuoRwf36lxNMvaGwlZOM/edit?usp=drivesdk

Final tally -

22x doubled
26 DTOs
12 EDTOs
7 creation
80 possessions available

13 PP
5 EPP
5 IPP

7 PPD
6 IPPD
1 EPPD
74 possessions available

Shaq had GOAT lvl gravity and scoring this game, but that increased his playmaking advantage (among others) greatly.

He also showed that he could still lift the team without his second option, proving his sub-GOAT floor raising:

Without Kobe:
Kobe started the 2000 season injured. He missed all of November. During that time, the Lakers and Shaq didn’t miss a beat at all.

11-3 record
6.61 SRS (would still be good enough to be #1 in the league)

Shaq performed admirably
28.7 PPG, 13.4 Reb, 3 AST, 59.5 FG%

More impressively is how the Lakers performed when Shaq was on the court during that span that Kobe missed.
107 O rating (+6.8 from League average)
94.3 D rating (-7.0 from league average)
+12.7 Net Rating

The most amazing thing about the above numbers is that Shaq’s full season numbers were 106 O rating and 95 D rating (11 Net) so that means the Lakers with Shaq on the court while Kobe didn’t play, played better offense and defense than the Lakers played with Shaq on the court in the games Kobe played. Shaq really stepped it up in that span.

Here is Shaq’s supporting cast during those games:
36 year old Ron Harper, 7 PPG 39.9 FG%
25 year old Derek Fisher, 6 PPG, 34.6 FG%
32 year old Glen Rice, 15.9 PPG, 43 FG%
36 year old A.C. Green, 5 PPG 44.7 FG%
2000 Shaq

Bench,
Brian Shaw
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
Travis Knight
John Celestand

Despite all of that, Shaq performed just as well and somehow got an on court 107 Offensive rating (+6.8 from league average) with Shaq on court. To put that into perspective, the #2 offense this year (Heat) are +6.5. They also played -7.0 defense which is the exact same that the 2011 Bulls and Celtics played.

In that month without Kobe, while the team played awesome with Shaq on the court, they were horrific without Shaq in that month

On court: +12 per 100
Off court: -44 in 197 minutes, (-11.17 per 100)
+23.19 per 100 possession difference

So Shaq was propping up a mediocre at best cast in Kobe’s absence to playing like the best team in the league when Shaq was on the court.

To show Shaq's true dominance at the rim, here are his FG% numbers:
FG% from 0-3 FT: 77.6% (ATG to sub-GOAT lvl)
FG% from 3-10 FT: 44.8% (efficient, still great)

Shaq was much more unstoppable, in this limited area, due to how he could finish, his GOAT rim-pressure, and his area in deep post, where he could dunk(14.7% of his shot attempts are dunks). His physical game was incredible as-well, as he overpowered opponents in this area.

2000-01 Shaq has an argument, based on if you value the PO that much (his best playoff run in his career), but for me, it is not enough to beat out his excellent RS and PO combination, as well as his DPOY lvl defensive peak.


4. 1963-64 Wilt (61-62, 66-67, 67-68)

Most people consider 66-67 to be Wilt's peak, but for me, Wilt didn't really stand out enough as a playmaker or on defence enough to beat out this iteration of Wilt. (Although, I will say that 67 Wilt has a case). There are two things for me taking him over 67..

-> Wilt, at least by the numbers, was a better defender. He also seemed to be a better interior defender, and had better rim deterrence, by the film that is available. He wasn't all that active though, and a worse defender in transition (due to spending so many minutes on the court), and his effectiveness guarding perimeter seemed to stay mostly the same..

-> Wilt was better scorer off of offensive rebounding (he was still GOAT lvl at that in 67), and great interior scorer, with ATG rim pressure. He also had a much worse team than in 67 Sixers, so it was much harder to lift his team to the offensive heights when he had terrible support in 64 Warriors

As a basketball player, Wilt looks like better defensive player on film and with the stats, also this is a elite defensive season at worst, sub GOAT defensive season to me, since rim protection was very valued in 60s and that led to anchoring a -6 defence (he still had good help in Thurmond, but Thurmond was a rookie and hadn't emerged). His low fouling might be attributed to him having little discipline, but I have yet to see proof of this.

Wilt had ATG scoring season (expected from a top 10-15 scorer in history), averaging insane amount of point for a post big, on high efficiency: (28.0 IA pts/75 on +5.2 rTS), one of his greatest scoring seasons ever. This is on top of the incredible gravity he had, the rim pressure he had, along with hitting fadeaways at a reasonable clip, for bigs:

Prime games (1962-68):

All shots: 157/255 FGA (61.6 FG%)

All fadeaways: 50/109 FGA (45.9 FG%)
From left block: 37/78 FGA (47.4 FG%)
From right block: 6/15 FGA (40.0 FG%)
Non-post fadeaways: 7/16 FGA (43.8 FG%)

All finger rolls: 17/30 FGA (56.7 FG%)
From left block: 5/12 FGA (41.7 FG%)
From right block: 9/14 FGA (64.3 FG%)
Non-post finger rolls: 3/4 FGA (75.0 FG%)

As a playmaker, he exposed double-teams like in 1966-67 on the ball, he could hit his open man. Off-ball, he provided value as playmaker, using his gravity to leave open teammates for shots.

HM: 2002-03 Duncan - A GOAT lvl defender with elite offensive game, his best year on both ends.

[Elpolo_14]

I have a few seasons designated at an All Time Great level. Due to era differences, it’s hard to compare them directly. As such, if they were voted ahead of my picks, I wouldn’t be too bothered.

KG (2004 > 2003 > 2008). Yes, adding Cassell was a huge improvement for the Wolves, but KG was still the man in a top 5 offense. 24.9 pp75 on +3.1 rTS%, team rOrtg of +3. Top 6 regular season defense. 92 Drtg. Upped his Reb% and best Block% of his career (just about). +4.72 OPIPM, +3.35 DPIPM, +8.06 PIPM. 27.53 Wins Added. +8.9 xRAPM!


Kareem Abdul Jabbar (1977 > 1974 > 1973). 24.5 pp75 on +9.7 rTS%. Team rOrtg was +1.9. +5.25 OPIPM. Then there’s the playoffs. Kareem averaged a 30/16/4 on +14.9% with 1.3 steals and 3.8 blocks, going up against Bill Walton.
+2.86 DPIPM, overall +8.11 PIPM. 23.79 Wins Added. His team was pretty sub par, and he dragged them to the West finals, putting up big performance after big performance in the sweep.

Bill Russell (1964 > 1963 > 1962)

Anchored a -10.8 dRtg, the best defense in NBA history. Surrounding seasons were also dominant.
1962: -8.5 (T 5th all time)
1963: -8.5 (T 5th all time)
1964: -10.8 (1st all time)
1965: -9.4 (2nd all time)

Tim Duncan (2003 > 2002 > 2001)

Manu and Parker were young, D Rob was old. Duncan was amazing on both ends, doing it all for the Spurs. +3.83 OPIPM, +3.28 DPIPM. +7.11 PIPM. 26.99 Wins Added.


Wilt Chamberlain (1967 > 1964 > 1968). Wilt elevated his game to a more team focus, and the results are astounding. He can still score when required, but does so at a historic efficiency. His passing game opened up his teammates, and his team’s offense. Cunningham, Walker, Greer all benefit from Wilt’s unselfish play and have great years in their own right.


Steph Curry (2017 > 2016 > 2015). 27.4 pp75, +7.1 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +6.8. Top 6 playmaker. Playoffs; 28.5, +10.6%. But all of that means nothing. Teams were leaving Kevin Durant wide open because they were worried about Stephen Curry (6.3% wide open shots in 2016 vs 12.2% wide open shots in 2017 playoffs for KD). That is the definition of gravity. +8.21 OPIPM, +0.11 DPIPM, +8.32 PIPM. 21.6 Wins Added.


Larry Bird (1986 > 1987 > 1985). +4.51 OPIPM, +1.57 DPIPM. +6.08 PIPM. 21.12 Wins Added. Bird seems to get a bit of negativity for his playoff performances. Well, ‘84 and ‘86 his efficiency increased on his regular season form. Gets better as a passer. 24.2 pp75 on +3.9 rTS%. Team rOrtg +4.6. Second best offense in the playoffs.

Magic Johnson (1987 > 1988 > 1990). Best passer and playmaker in the league, by a significant margin. Starts to up his scoring volume also. 23.3 pp75, +6.4 rTS%. Team rOrtg +7.3. +5.57 OPIPM, +0.41 DPIPM. +5.98 PIPM. 18.74 Wins Added.


Shai Gilgeous Alexander (2025 > 2024). Top 10 playmaker. Anchored the #3 offense in the league, +5.8 rOrtg. 34.4 pp75 on +6.1 rTS% in the regular season, dropped to 29.4 pp75 on -0.2 rTS% in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic (2023 > 2025 > 2024). Best playmaker and passer in the league. 26.7 pp75 +12 rTS% in RS, 29pp75 +5 rTS% in the playoffs. +2.8 rOrtg. -0.6 dRtg. Up to +6 rOrtg in PS along with a -2.7 dRtg.


Giannis (2021 > 2020 > 2019). 30 pp75 +6.1 rTS% in RS, 29.5 pp75, +2.7 rTS% PS. Elite defensively.

This should round out the top 15.

All these player are definitely falling in the top 20 peak ballot at the LOWEST. Some of them are going to be mention very quickly ( some of them already got mention like bill / wilt / Duncan / Shaq / KAJ )

Jokic should be the player which Ranking is gonna Skyrock the most among the top echelon. He was 16th last time. This time he might fall around 8-12 range
But the player who wasn't on the sight last time like SGA is going to be the biggest add on since Curry in 2019 peak thread for sure.

Some other name I think might be put in top 15 consideration by some panelist : Oscar / West / Kobe / Walton / Kawhi.

Surprisingly the Last peak project in 2022 : Kobe only end up 19 "behind DWade". Where would you have rank Kobe personally?