Shams: Kings Trade Jonas Valunciunas to the Nuggets for Dario Saric; *UPDATE* - Trade is Now Official

[BelgradeNugget]

This has been a very hot topic for some reason, I am not sure why.

JV doesn't move the needle for the Nuggets. Do you think their second unit becomes significantly better with or without JV?

I don't think so.

If Nuggets could have somehow gotten old man Horford, now that would be a different story, JV, not so much.

Valanciunas was a 1st percentile in defense according to D-EPM. Like Alex Len level. RAPM has him as a baaad defender too, just not as bad.

Now he's still a good offensive player and can eat innings when Jokic is sitting in the regular season. He might even be able to take games off!

But Nuggets fans have to sober up about his playoff value: he has little to none. Jokic is playing 40+ minutes in the playoffs and old man Val isn't changing that. Imagine him trying to rotate against last year's Thunder or Pacers. He'd get annihilated.

You are right about Valanciunas defense according to D-EPM. One of the worst in the league. But if we dig deeper into stats he might look not so bad.
For instance his netrtg for 24/25 was terrible -9.6. If we split it into netrtg in Washington, tanking team trying to lose, he had netrtg of -16. For Sacramento his netrtg was +2.6, same as Domantas Sabonis. I can't find D-EPM split into his time in Washington and Sacramento but let's use defrtg to try to see where he was.

With Washington his defrtg was 120.8, or 5th worst in the league (gp >20, min>10). With Sacramento it was 115.2, or 319/411. It would be 33%, still bad but not disaster. Defrtg of 115.2 was 23 best (worst) team defrtg in the nba last season. For comparasion defrtg of other Sac slow centers - Sabonis 113.9, Len 115.6. Len with Lakers 126.1. This tells us that players who are not naturaly talented for defense can be exposed in certain schemes (Val with Washington, Len with Lakers) or playable - both in Sac. It is worth noting Jokic is not swichable center with great foot speed so they will probobly use the same schames to protect Val on D as they use to protect Jokic on D.

Some more interestiong stats to point out how the way players are used can determine the way they play on the court. I already wrote in this tread about Zake Nnaji, and his fit with Val. Some people will say Nnaji is one of the worst contracts in the league, shouldn't see the court. So here is a link

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/4766/positions#tab-team_efficiency

When playing PF (67% of his time) he was 88% player with +11.8 netrtg. On offense 91%, 124.2 ortg, 90% Efg%... on defense 71%, 112.4 defrgt, 95% Efg%...
When playing C (33% of his time) he was 0% player with -28.9 netrtg. On offense 0%, 89.6 ortg, 0% Efg%... on defense 29%, 118.5 defrgt, 83% Efg%...

So playing C he was THE WORST player in the NBA. Playing PF (with Jokic) he was good. And Malone liked to play him on C

So people should not underestimate the fact Nuggets fired Malone, Adelman will have the whole season to build this team to their strenghts, and we will see results in the playoffs if everybody healthy.

[___Rand___]

Yea looks like it's a done deal. Valanviunas is officially a Denver Nugget. Will be interesting to see his attitude and how he handles the media when he's introduced as a Nugget, as there will undoubtedly be questions about him wanting to play in Greece.

Read on Twitter

But is he going to Denver or to Greece?

He is under contract with Denver and can’t play for another team even in Europe.

He could go to Greece on holiday.

So what's the point of the Greek team making that offer?

[Wallace_Wallace]

It would have been great if people in the NBA could read too and knew how to respect players in Europe under contract and avoid tampering.

I’ve going back and forth with a couple folks last week. Give me one example when the NBA negotiates with a foreign player, the buyout amount was not agreed with the foreign team? What about when the buyout was not agreed, was the player not required to play for his foreign team anymore?

The NBA has a set limit for overseas buyouts. It was 500k in the past/750k present day, and the rest have to be paid by the player. If the player doesn’t want to pay that amount, he needs to finish his contract until he can play elsewhere (just like any sport contract basically).

As multiple EuroLeague fans already stated, in few cases did a EuroLeague team get any compensation from an NBA team for one of their players, because they don't normally have NBA style buyouts and NBA out clauses in their contracts.

The teams in Europe don't want to give NBA out clauses. The agents and players in Europe don't want big buyouts in their contracts. Since there were some big buyouts put into some EuroLeague contracts before, like with Navarro, Campazzo, Rubio, Llull - the agents really cracked down on that, and basically pretty much just started refusing to agree to them.

So IF, IF, there's specifically a buyout clause, it's like 100,000 to 500,000 euros net. And again, most of the time there isn't a buyout for other teams, and no NBA out clause.

A team could still ask for a big buyout, if another team wants a player under contract, but that's not happening much. Because on the side of the teams, they pretty much decided they weren't going to be drawn into buyout bidding wars.

So the European teams don’t want to give players out clauses, and the players don’t want big buyout amounts. Okay, so the NBA team will have to first reach out to the player they’re interested, make sure the player does not breach any rules in the contract, and then acquire for his services. Sounds like any other team to be honest. Panathinaikos can reach out to Jonas, heck they may already have a deal in place. The thing is, they need Denver to either agree to a buyout, or else Denver requires Valenciunas to report to the team.

I still want to have an example of a foreign player who was still under contract and the NBA offered another contract essentially overriding his foreign deal.

[Nuntius]

But is he going to Denver or to Greece?

He is under contract with Denver and can’t play for another team even in Europe.

He could go to Greece on holiday.

So what's the point of the Greek team making that offer?

Valanciunas' Lithuanian agent who isn't actively involved in his NBA dealings assured them that Denver would allow Valanciunas to buy out his contract and return to Europe. The agent was wrong.

[LuDux1]

He is under contract with Denver and can’t play for another team even in Europe.

He could go to Greece on holiday.

So what's the point of the Greek team making that offer?

Valanciunas' Lithuanian agent who isn't actively involved in his NBA dealings assured them that Denver would allow Valanciunas to buy out his contract and return to Europe. The agent was wrong.

Why PAO didn't ask his American agents?

[Nuntius]

So what's the point of the Greek team making that offer?

Valanciunas' Lithuanian agent who isn't actively involved in his NBA dealings assured them that Denver would allow Valanciunas to buy out his contract and return to Europe. The agent was wrong.

Why PAO didn't ask his American agents?

Who knows? Maybe it's easier to talk with the representative that is in the same continent as you.

They had no reason to assume that the agent was so wrong.

[Ssj16]

Yea looks like it's a done deal. Valanviunas is officially a Denver Nugget. Will be interesting to see his attitude and how he handles the media when he's introduced as a Nugget, as there will undoubtedly be questions about him wanting to play in Greece.

Everything I've read about him is that he's a pro. Shows up, does his job. He's also gonna love playing on a winning team for once.

Could be wishful thinking, but I think he's going to have fun and play well in Denver.

From watching Jonas over the years, mostly in Toronto, the guy is a consummate professional and I've seen the competitive spirit in him as well.

This is easily the best team that he's played for in his career. I predict he will fit right into the culture and be a net positive to winning, once he gets settled in.

[Mirotic12]

Rubio signed with Badalona, which plays in Spanish ACB and FIBA BCL.

[Castle Black]

Read on Twitter

"I want to clear the air about my playing situation next season now that Denver has made their decision to keep me. The idea of playing for Panathinaikos, closer to home, was very exciting to me, but that will have to wait. I am fully committed to honoring my contract with the Nuggets this season and will give it my all to compete for a championship." - Jonas Valanciunas

[jowglenn]

Good conclusion to this mini-saga. I think JV will be a big piece for the Nuggets