Chicago Bulls select Noa Essengue - #12 overall

[sco]

i think the problem with his form is largely in his lower half + he struggles because he can't consistently shoot with good mechanics. on the broadcast, tom crean was talking about how he doesn't like noa's outside shot because he doesn't think he gets enough lift when he's shooting from distance. then after one went in, crean said "oh the lift wasn't really a problem for him on that rep." but that doesn't mean it won't be a problem on future shots

Lift as in height in his jump? Lift is for avoiding getting blocked and probably reduces accuracy all things being equal. If NBA players were sitting in an open gym and were getting paid to make as many threes in a row, they probably wouldn't jump at all. He's 6'11, he likely does not need any lift to avoid getting blocked. Any higher than necessarily simply lowers the margin for error.

Yeah, I get the notion of jumping on 3's by guards, but jumping for a 6'11 guy only introduces form variation unnecessarily.

[Jvaughn]

i think the problem with his form is largely in his lower half + he struggles because he can't consistently shoot with good mechanics. on the broadcast, tom crean was talking about how he doesn't like noa's outside shot because he doesn't think he gets enough lift when he's shooting from distance. then after one went in, crean said "oh the lift wasn't really a problem for him on that rep." but that doesn't mean it won't be a problem on future shots

Lift as in height in his jump? Lift is for avoiding getting blocked and probably reduces accuracy all things being equal. If NBA players were sitting in an open gym and were getting paid to make as many threes in a row, they probably wouldn't jump at all. He's 6'11, he likely does not need any lift to avoid getting blocked. Any higher than necessarily simply lowers the margin for error.

Yeah I remember when the lift argument used to be brought up about Luol Deng, and it ended up being a non-issue as well.

[Guru]

A couple thoughts that I had last night
1.Essengue next to Vooch might be really interesting with his defensive presence.
2. KC consistently talks about Essengue and Mattas as the frontcourt of the future....historically your frontcourt is SF-PF-C, in this day and age that could mean just PF and C. Essengue can and likes to play away from the basket, but I'm not certain he can't be a big in these times.

Regardless super fun when thinking about these two playing in a giddy offense. I assume they will re-sign Giddey and those 3 will be the building blocks for the team. Coby they have contract talks with about what he would want post 2025-2026 (they can't really pay him what he's worth before that) and if his desires are out of left field than you trade him at the deadline. There is a world where you are building around Giddey-Coby-Buz-Noa and then you are really just looking for a shot blocking rim running big.

[Chi town]

i think the problem with his form is largely in his lower half + he struggles because he can't consistently shoot with good mechanics. on the broadcast, tom crean was talking about how he doesn't like noa's outside shot because he doesn't think he gets enough lift when he's shooting from distance. then after one went in, crean said "oh the lift wasn't really a problem for him on that rep." but that doesn't mean it won't be a problem on future shots

Lift as in height in his jump? Lift is for avoiding getting blocked and probably reduces accuracy all things being equal. If NBA players were sitting in an open gym and were getting paid to make as many threes in a row, they probably wouldn't jump at all. He's 6'11, he likely does not need any lift to avoid getting blocked. Any higher than necessarily simply lowers the margin for error.

Yeah, I get the notion of jumping on 3's by guards, but jumping for a 6'11 guy only introduces form variation unnecessarily.

It’s not jumping. It stepping into his shot.

Guys won’t be making 3s from a standstill like FTs. Very few could do that. Even being that tall they need to step into their shot for proper mechanics.

[Chi town]

A couple thoughts that I had last night
1.Essengue next to Vooch might be really interesting with his defensive presence.
2. KC consistently talks about Essengue and Mattas as the frontcourt of the future....historically your frontcourt is SF-PF-C, in this day and age that could mean just PF and C. Essengue can and likes to play away from the basket, but I'm not certain he can't be a big in these times.

Regardless super fun when thinking about these two playing in a giddy offense. I assume they will re-sign Giddey and those 3 will be the building blocks for the team. Coby they have contract talks with about what he would want post 2025-2026 (they can't really pay him what he's worth before that) and if his desires are out of left field than you trade him at the deadline. There is a world where you are building around Giddey-Coby-Buz-Noa and then you are really just looking for a shot blocking rim running big.

Yep.

AK has said he wants Giddey and Coby long term.

If that happens I think it can work if Buz and Noa keep taking steps to become plus defenders.

The biggest news is it looks like Buz will be playing more as a 3 and Giddey at the 1. Last year Buz played almost all his mins at PF and Giddey at the 3 with two guards.

[Chi town]

Noa has a chance to be a truly elite defender. With his length, size, and quickness obviously - but just general agility is off the charts. The Giannis comparisons never made sense, because Giannis is pure explosion. Noa is smooth, more a glider, almost balletic - he moves like a figure skater.

The offense? Who knows. For now just pick and roll to the cup and make off-ball cuts to the basket. He can get by as a dunker and overall finisher.

He does glide out there. I hope Billy uses him like a Swiss Army knife on defense and mixed up coverages with him on the opposing teams best scorers. Play him against a SG for a couple plays to disrupt flow and break rhythm. Play him small against a big C and have him front the post with his length.

I’d would have loved to see Noa on Herro in that play in game when no one could stop him. We have Tre Okoro and Ayo now but throwing Noa at him to give him a different look is what can create advantages and swing momentum. Billy needs to you use Noa on D like he did Caruso. Make him the future QB of the defense. His offense will take longer to develop but his D could be truly elite.

2nd game he looked elite on D. 3rd game was meh on D with more offense. I’d much rather have the D and filled up stat sheet then 20 points and an empty stat sheet.

[thxfrthmmrs]

If we’re using Bulls comps I see Noa as a cross between Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas. Long athlete with decent athletic ability but at the same time not incredibly fast, explosive, and lacking good handle (definitely not seeing Giannis comp). Can develop a respectable jump shot.

[drosestruts]

Noa has what I call the "Soriano effect"

When playing for the Cubs fans would routineley moan and groan about Soriano not playing or running hard. Then you'd look and he'd have 40 stolen bases and 40 home runs.

When some people move or run they look like they're making a strong, focused, concerted, effort. Others seem to just effortlessly glide.

Noa is the latter.

I know there's advanced stats that track distance covered by individual players during games. I'd anticipate Noa will fall on the higher end of that in his prime, but that much of it won't be noticed by the simple eye-ball test. And that claims around effort will follow him throughout his career.

Even when he sprints up the court it just looks effortless and almost like he's jogging, but he's moving faster than the other players.

[dougthonus]

Guys won’t be making 3s from a standstill like FTs. Very few could do that. Even being that tall they need to step into their shot for proper mechanics.

I mean pretty clearly that's wrong.

1: Catch and shoot threes, which are the most common and most basic, do not require you to step into a shot.

2: People don't shoot threes like FTs not because they can't or wouldn't be good at it, but because they'd get blocked.

[kodo]

i think the problem with his form is largely in his lower half + he struggles because he can't consistently shoot with good mechanics. on the broadcast, tom crean was talking about how he doesn't like noa's outside shot because he doesn't think he gets enough lift when he's shooting from distance. then after one went in, crean said "oh the lift wasn't really a problem for him on that rep." but that doesn't mean it won't be a problem on future shots

Lift as in height in his jump? Lift is for avoiding getting blocked and probably reduces accuracy all things being equal. If NBA players were sitting in an open gym and were getting paid to make as many threes in a row, they probably wouldn't jump at all. He's 6'11, he likely does not need any lift to avoid getting blocked. Any higher than necessarily simply lowers the margin for error.

Yeah, I get the notion of jumping on 3's by guards, but jumping for a 6'11 guy only introduces form variation unnecessarily.

Noa's lift on jumpers is about the same as Dirk's. Not remotely comparing the two as shooters, just saying it obviously didn't hinder Dirk's ability to shoot once you're in that center size range.

Also looks like Durant only gets a few inches on his jumper.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E83KJdyss64

[nomorezorro]

i don't really think crean was saying noa needs a ton of lift to have good 3pt form; i think he was just saying he thought he wasn't getting enough legs into the shot and that's why he frequently was missing short

[Chi town]

Guys won’t be making 3s from a standstill like FTs. Very few could do that. Even being that tall they need to step into their shot for proper mechanics.

I mean pretty clearly that's wrong.

1: Catch and shoot threes, which are the most common and most basic, do not require you to step into a shot.

2: People don't shoot threes like FTs not because they can't or wouldn't be good at it, but because they'd get blocked.

Kinda shocked by your response. This is fundamental shooting.

Why don’t guys shoot wide open 3s like FTs?

Why do t shooters shot FT 3s in the 3pt contest with no defenders. There has not been one FT 3 shooter in the history of the contest?

How would guys shoot in the 4th quarter or on a B2B when they have no legs? Would they shoot 3s better as a FT shooter from 3?

Noa said after last game that he’s adjusting to the new 3pt line and how he needs to step into his shot when he’s tired in the 4th

[MrSparkle]

So despite the meme poster that’ll have the mobs laughin’ for a while, I was way more encouraged by this 3rd game. Looked more like the Ratiopharm Ulm player I saw. Making heady plays without initiating sets.

One thing about his length is he can take 2 steps from the 3P line and almost be in position for a lay-up. Slight exaggeration as nobody’s doing a finger-roll from 24 ft, but as a catch/slash option, all he needs is 1 dribble to get to the paint. It’ll be his bread and butter if defenders have to respect his 3P spacing, especially from the closer corner. His offensive role ought to be straight forward.

Ingram’s a guy with similar specs to Noa, but a much better handle and shot… and he’s a player I despise watching. Which goes to show, maybe a tall lanky offensive talent isn’t great at all if his M.O. is to isolate on high usage. Having an unselfish off-ball specialist with that size is more advantageous (unless we’re talking Durant efficiency).

Meanwhile, I’m very fascinated by Yang. Obviously he’s a mystery until he plays a real NBA game, but my gut feeling is he’s top-3 in this draft. His passing and mobility for his size is wild. I’m also predicting Portland’s ready to deliver our FRP in the 18-20 range. Should hit October with a fully healthy roster (even RW3, despite being chronically injured). Jrue, Deni, Clingan, Camara, Thybulle, Grant… that defense can be top-3 if nothing else. I also think Sharp and Scoot are due for some really big jumps. Sharp’s ability to get to the paint always impressed me. Jrue mentoring and playing with them will be huge.

IMO: Lakers and Mavs will underperform. Grizzlies will miss Bane. Suns are gonna be mid (if not flat out bad and even more dysfunctional.. but I err on hot start and mediocre finish, esp. if MW or Booker get injured). Spurs are gonna jump, but still a young team that needs to gel and develop. Warriors are a year older; will really need to pace the reg. season without jeopardizing playoff seeding. Blazers’ odds of securing the 5-7 seed look ok.

Sidetrack to the Noa thread, but I like our chances of getting Blazers’ pick… but I’m also slightly concerned we might’ve missed the Jokiburton of this draft.

[dougthonus]

Kinda shocked by your response. This is fundamental shooting.

Why don’t guys shoot wide open 3s like FTs?

Why do t shooters shot FT 3s in the 3pt contest with no defenders. There has not been one FT 3 shooter in the history of the contest?

How would guys shoot in the 4th quarter or on a B2B when they have no legs? Would they shoot 3s better as a FT shooter from 3?

Noa said after last game that he’s adjusting to the new 3pt line and how he needs to step into his shot when he’s tired in the 4th

Fundamentally the issue to both is time. A FT form takes a lot longer. That said, they don't "step into" shots in the three point contest nor do they maximize lift. They make really tiny straight up jumps to get enough legs into the shot to make it work.

But maybe moreover, I'm not stating that you don't have leg involvement in a three point shot. You also have leg involvement in a FT. I'm suggesting that you do not need to step into a shot nor do you need big lift. You do occasionally, when no one is in a guys zip code or even charging, see guys take 3s with much closer to FT form. Very slow, almost no lift. It's just that even "wide open" is typically with a guy charging at you that will close the gap quickly.

[CROBulls]

Guys who are 6'11 and have good shooting motion form above their head dont need to jump too much to get nice release shot. They can shoot over people, specially if guarded by regular midgets like most of 6'11 guys are today in league. (I am looking at you Billy Donovan and your fetish to play guards at big man position).

Dirk couldnt move last 5 years of his career and he basically standstill was shooting over guys from 3pt line. But he does need to get stronger and he will need to get little bit more lift and conditioning in his legs, if he want to really start creating seperation and shooting over people in individual possesions.

[fleet]

He had a good game that was unfortunately marred by him getting yammed on Give him the credit for trying though.

Not great

[GoBlue72391]

Guys won’t be making 3s from a standstill like FTs. Very few could do that. Even being that tall they need to step into their shot for proper mechanics.

I mean pretty clearly that's wrong.

1: Catch and shoot threes, which are the most common and most basic, do not require you to step into a shot.

2: People don't shoot threes like FTs not because they can't or wouldn't be good at it, but because they'd get blocked.

There are a lot of people here who haven't picked up a basketball in years and it shows.

[GoBlue72391]

Guys won’t be making 3s from a standstill like FTs. Very few could do that. Even being that tall they need to step into their shot for proper mechanics.

I mean pretty clearly that's wrong.

1: Catch and shoot threes, which are the most common and most basic, do not require you to step into a shot.

2: People don't shoot threes like FTs not because they can't or wouldn't be good at it, but because they'd get blocked.

Kinda shocked by your response. This is fundamental shooting.

Why don’t guys shoot wide open 3s like FTs?

Why do t shooters shot FT 3s in the 3pt contest with no defenders. There has not been one FT 3 shooter in the history of the contest?

How would guys shoot in the 4th quarter or on a B2B when they have no legs? Would they shoot 3s better as a FT shooter from 3?

Noa said after last game that he’s adjusting to the new 3pt line and how he needs to step into his shot when he’s tired in the 4th

What are you talking about?

[MGB8]

In fairness, my FT form vs 3 pt form is dictated by the need for more push and legs in the shot; while my FT is mostly arm and wrist with little leg bend/move and a pretty high release, my 3 is much more legs and more forward release.

Now, I am 5'9 with tight wrists and am an awful shooter once the wrists tighten up after playing a bit... So... Anyway - I don't think my now old man, former rec league experience translates much to NBA players (or even good HS ballers)...

[madvillian]

He def has a little Shawn Marion in his game. Some Jalen Johnson as well. Excited to see how he develops over the next few years.