Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[Badgerlander]

[dbrodz7]

If Trey Murphy is actually on the table

I'm not sure he's ever been on the table. Kind of impressed with how quickly his name spread like wildfire throughout Bucks fandom as a trade option when there was little to no speculation or rumors about Bucks having interest or the Pelicans even shopping him. Add him to the list of board darlings.

He was also courtside at their summer league game helping with the new younger guys. If he was being shopped and on the way out I wouldn't think that would be going on.

[raferfenix]

Kuminga would be as much an asset play as he would an on-court upgrade IMO (of course pretty much anybody with a pulse could theoretically be an "upgrade" from Playoff Kuz). I'd agree with the notion that he's a bit of a wonky fit right now due to current personnel and coaching, but as soon as people accept that we're not gonna be legit upper-tier contenders this season, the sooner we can start building this roster with a post-Doc future in mind. I think touching the 2031 1st or 2032 pick swap would be my red line though, and if the rumors are true that Golden State stubbornly rejected a Monk/Devin Carter package, then no thanks. They can sit on him and continue to let Kuminga hold their other offseason moves hostage.

From an asset play perspective, do you think Kuminga would be less valuable than our 2031 first or 2032 swap?

I might actually have the inverse perspective where I could see Kuminga being an asset investment (especially if it's just the swap + Ajax while we dump Kuz) but if he'd kill spacing and be greedy on the court it might not be worth the chemistry hit.

Kuzma would be easier to relegate to a backup PF role. Kuminga would need minutes and shots and we couldn't trade him for a while.

[Badgerlander]

Kuminga is a slightly better version of RJ Barrett

[raferfenix]

The Pelicans publicly stated his price at the start of the offseason. A playoff rotation player, a young player, and 2- 1sts.

Was this the report from Chris Dodson or something else?

Can't rule anything out when it comes to Horst's old friend Joe Dumars...but even a Bucks package of AJ Green + 2031 first + 2032 swap seems too much to hope for:

The New Orleans Pelicans are not playing around when it comes to Trey Murphy III. According to NBA insider Chris Dodson, the team’s asking price for the 24-year-old wing is steep:

- One veteran who can contribute in the playoffs

- One young prospect with potential

- Multiple first-round picks

Some in league circles have called the price “ridiculous,” but it appears the Pelicans are fully aware of Murphy’s rising value. Given the number of calls they’ve fielded, the price tag might just be justified.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/pelicans-asking-price-trey-murphy-163129748.html

According to league sources, more than a handful of teams are inquiring about what it would take to pry Trey Murphy III and Herb Jones from the Crescent City before the 2025 NBA Draft. An All-Star return does not seem to be in the cards either. Rival executives are allegedly trying instead to “sell” Dumars on deals that would replenish draft capital previously sacrificed for CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray, and Devonte’ Graham.

While ClutchPoints understands no trade is imminent, multiple contenders have expressed strong interest in Trey Murphy III specifically, with potential packages centered on multiple first- and second-round picks. The Pelicans' asking price for Herb Jones is not as steep, but it is understood to be higher than the rumored first-round pick swap and bench piece from the Philadelphia 76ers.

More than one source argued for Murphy III having a top-five value contract when looking at future All-Star wings. The 24-year-old has evolved from a promising role player over the past few years, averaging a career-high 21.2 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 3.5 assists per game last season with elite efficiency (59.8% True Shooting). It was actually a down year from beyond the arc (36.1%), though that can be attributed to nagging injuries, in-season adjustments, and rotation construction.

With Zion Williamson's value greatly depreciated and a directive to be in the postseason picture, the Pelicans can afford to stand firm with what one source termed as “ridiculous” returns for Murphy III. A serviceable veteran who can log postseason minutes, a decent prospect, and multiple first-round picks is the starting point. Given the number of inquiring calls, it is also indicative of Trey Murphy III's true value, per one source.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/sources-pelicans-not-completely-shutting-door-herb-jones-trey-murphy-iii-trades-nba

[German Athens]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

[LUKE23]

To me, this looks like a roster that is going to play smaller at the wings and run this year. I feel like with KPJ at PG and GA/Turner at 4/5, they can live with Green/GTJ as starters at 2/3. Both are capable defenders and can scorch from 3. Assuming we cannot find a Kuzma upgrade at SF, you move him to the bench SF/PF with Portis the bench PF/C. Sims would just be used matchup dependent.

Active roster/rotation:

KPJ-Anthony
Green-Rollins-Harris
GTJ-Prince
GA-Kuzma
Turner-Portis-Sims

Feel like Rollins with his wingspan can come in at either guard spot, Prince and Kuzma can both survive at either forward spot depending on who else is out there. This is a roster that is built to play small ball well assuming the correct lineups are out there.

[Bernman]

If it's a choice, I've come around to believe Green should start over Trent. If you look at the duo/lineup data, Green gives bumps on d & rebounding. Whereas Trent hurts you. He is a positive on O, where Green's a negative. But Green's marginally positive w/ Giannis there too.

If we go small, I'd prefer Rollins over Trent because you have a POA defender then. There's more hope on the boards cuz his individual rebound rate is significantly higher. He was hampered by the injury last yr. Still shot pretty well off ball. Let Trent be the 6th man, Kuz 7th, unless he comes good.

[LUKE23]

I feel like Trent's on ball D was good last year. I'm going to be very surprised if he doesn't start after what we saw last year.

[Bernman]

I feel like Trent's on ball D was good last year. I'm going to be very surprised if he doesn't start after what we saw last year.

Super handsy. Didn't move his feet. Can't rebound.

D-ratings: Trent - 114, Rollins - 109, Green - 108.

If you're playing Trent, it's for offense, & not totally cratering defensively + on the boards. That is all.

[midranger]

If anthonys issues are fit and confidence at this level after a storied high school and college career.....than as a young high upside developmental guard his fathers relationship with doc will be worth its weight in gold and trimmed out in rubies and diamonds.

I for one am extremely excited to get a young explosive high pedigree guard on this roster. Hes a chucker because he was once the highest rated pg in the nation and an all acc selection as a freshman and a lotto pick....all for his "chucking". We dont have any chuckers that can occasionally look good. Maybe he ends up being prime brandon jennings 2.0 but even that would help a bit with this current cast coming off the bench with a great head on him. This thing is all gonna be confidence for him moving forwrd imo.

How this board can twist his dads relationship with Doc into somehow a bad thing here I just smh. Its probably why we targeted the young man and Im all for it. This entire year is going to be about development. The idea we need to put the ball in KPJ, Rollins hands to take our lumps but somehow at the same developmental stage we mock Anthony is insanity to me

I would be concerned about nepotism if Anthony didn't have legitimate merit as an explosive young veteran guard with a high-skill level who by all accounts is a terrific teammate / locker-room guy. If you want to find another Bobby Portis, this is exactly the kind of guy you should be targeting.

Teams don't generally give up on explosive guards with a high skill level. No one wanted him. His situation isn't analagous to BP, but there are good players who fall thru the cracks.

He isn't highly skilled. He is an offenisve player who is inefficient and can't play good defense and is very short.

Taking a flyer on a midget guard isn't the worst thing to do, but I want a more switchable player.

And I want to Doc proof this roster as much as possible. There are only two current guys I wouldn't want to see in a rotation. I'm fine with everyone else.

Ummm. You’ve described pretty much our entire guard rotation.

[LUKE23]

I don't think individual D-rating is the way to look at it. I look at how to maximize GA as the primary ball handler, so GA 2-man lineups.

GA/KPJ (268 minutes): +21.3
GA/Green (779 minutes): +14.7
GA/Portis (482 minutes): +11.8
GA/GTJ (879 minutes): +10.7

Both Kuzma and Prince were sub +4.0 with GA in a ton of minutes.

It's all about spacing around GA. Green/GTJ both provide that, and both are switchable enough on defense with the other three defenders that will be starting. I like Rollins, but more as a guy to come in and spell KPJ, provide another PoA defender and ball handler while he sits. Start the shooters with GA, he's going to be the one with the ball in his hands more often than not.

[BroncoBuck]

Kuminga would be as much an asset play as he would an on-court upgrade IMO (of course pretty much anybody with a pulse could theoretically be an "upgrade" from Playoff Kuz). I'd agree with the notion that he's a bit of a wonky fit right now due to current personnel and coaching, but as soon as people accept that we're not gonna be legit upper-tier contenders this season, the sooner we can start building this roster with a post-Doc future in mind. I think touching the 2031 1st or 2032 pick swap would be my red line though, and if the rumors are true that Golden State stubbornly rejected a Monk/Devin Carter package, then no thanks. They can sit on him and continue to let Kuminga hold their other offseason moves hostage.

The war between the Warriors front office and the Warriors coaching staff never ceases to amaze me. The Warriors keep drafting guys trying to force Kerr to play differently and he refuses. It’s all led up to this disaster Kuminga situation.

[RRyder823]

I would be concerned about nepotism if Anthony didn't have legitimate merit as an explosive young veteran guard with a high-skill level who by all accounts is a terrific teammate / locker-room guy. If you want to find another Bobby Portis, this is exactly the kind of guy you should be targeting.

Teams don't generally give up on explosive guards with a high skill level. No one wanted him. His situation isn't analagous to BP, but there are good players who fall thru the cracks.

He isn't highly skilled. He is an offenisve player who is inefficient and can't play good defense and is very short.

Taking a flyer on a midget guard isn't the worst thing to do, but I want a more switchable player.

And I want to Doc proof this roster as much as possible. There are only two current guys I wouldn't want to see in a rotation. I'm fine with everyone else.

Ummm. You’ve described pretty much our entire guard rotation.

"I want a explosive efficient scorer who's switchable on defense" Is the crux of his complaint

Like no **** dude. Pretty confident we all would. We're talking about a vet minimum, end of the rotation, pickup here though

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[emunney]

Portis was a mid-1st round draft pick. Bulls traded him to the Wizards for a worse player than Bane. Wizards didn't keep him. Knicks signed him to a 2 year second deal with a 2nd year team option; they declined it and he signed with the Bucks for cheap. He was an inefficient big according to his box scores, thought to be an empty stats guy. We picked him up after his 5th year in the league; he had been in his team's rotation every year, but an infrequent starter. Exactly how similar does the situation have to be?

[Frank Nova]

Portis was a mid-1st round draft pick. Bulls traded him to the Wizards for a worse player than Bane. Wizards didn't keep him. Knicks signed him to a 2 year second deal with a 2nd year team option; they declined it and he signed with the Bucks for cheap. He was an inefficient big according to his box scores, thought to be an empty stats guy. We picked him up after his 5th year in the league; he had been in his team's rotation every year, but an infrequent starter. Exactly how similar does the situation have to be?

Sounds like a great stressed asset you give an opportunity to if the roster construction allows it. I’m not saying they’re a dime a dozen but as far as “fitting the bill”, the league is littered with them.

[Bernman]

I don't think individual D-rating is the way to look at it. I look at how to maximize GA as the primary ball handler, so GA 2-man lineups.

GA/KPJ (268 minutes): +21.3
GA/Green (779 minutes): +14.7
GA/Portis (482 minutes): +11.8
GA/GTJ (879 minutes): +10.7

Both Kuzma and Prince were sub +4.0 with GA in a ton of minutes.

It's all about spacing around GA. Green/GTJ both provide that, and both are switchable enough on defense with the other three defenders that will be starting. I like Rollins, but more as a guy to come in and spell KPJ, provide another PoA defender and ball handler while he sits. Start the shooters with GA, he's going to be the one with the ball in his hands more often than not.

Well, that's a case for Green over Trent. And Rollins is not far behind @ +8.7. He started a much higher % of his minutes to be in those s**tty lineups against tougher comp.

In similar lineups, Trent fared worse. He was +1 w/ Brook/Giannis/Prince/Dame. Rollins was +41, in this same lineup, in 15% of the possessions. His top minute lineup was w/ Brook, & he was +13. He was +9 w Brook, Trent was +2. Turner is an early Brook analog.

The rebounding's going to be a problem w/ Turner & Trent. And the shooting's still good w/ Rollins alongside Giannis. Ryan's a spacer. Also, KPJ isn't really a POA defender. That KPJ/Trent/Green group switched & did it more by committee, against heavily 2nd units to start out.

So Rollins, especially a healthier version, is probably a better option in the starting lineup, than Trent. I'd rank them: 1. KPJ, 2. Green, 3. Rollins, 4. Trent. If Kuzma's last yr's version, he's behind them all. If he turns it around, & accepts a role, could vault as high as 2. He's the wild card now.

[emunney]

Portis was a mid-1st round draft pick. Bulls traded him to the Wizards for a worse player than Bane. Wizards didn't keep him. Knicks signed him to a 2 year second deal with a 2nd year team option; they declined it and he signed with the Bucks for cheap. He was an inefficient big according to his box scores, thought to be an empty stats guy. We picked him up after his 5th year in the league; he had been in his team's rotation every year, but an infrequent starter. Exactly how similar does the situation have to be?

Sounds like a great stressed asset you give an opportunity to if the roster construction allows it. I’m not saying they’re a dime a dozen but as far as “fitting the bill”, the league is littered with them.

Exactly. Just like Portis was.

viewtopic.php?p=86598378#p86598378

[emunney]

We sign Portis, a small group of people chime in to say Portis is a horrible defender. One of the worst in the league. And a chucker! Stagnates the offense. That season, we win the title with Portis in the Finals rotation.

I'll give you one guess as to which rotation player had the best on-court defensive rating (and the best net rating) in the Finals.

[LUKE23]

Bucks were 6th in DRB% last year with Prince starting 80 games and Dame starting 58. KPJ is a good rebounding guard. Even if they take Kuzma out, I still think they will be fine on the boards. Their OREB was never a factor last year since they had to get their slow ass roster back on defense.

There is no way you can start Kuzma next to GA. Not a good enough shooter, not an off-ball player, he's going to clog spacing. That isn't the worth the extra rebounding.

With GA you start a team that can space everything in the halfcourt and run in the full court. Their defensive rebounding isn't going to be an issue as long as GA is playing. I know Lopez technically was this "box out" master, but he was a worse rebounder than Turner last year just by the numbers. Turner for his career is 8.5 per 36. That's going to be 20-21 rebounds per 36 between him and GA.