Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[Klomp]

The Nembhard love is IMO over the top and the dissing of DDV and Dilly is a shame. Prove them wrong DDV and Dilly.

Realistically -

Young no chance, Morant no chance, Haliburton no chance, Murray no chance, Maxey no chance, Ball no chance, Brunson no chance, Kyrie no chance, FVV no chance, SGA no chance, Garland no chance, Cunningham no chance and I am sure I am forgetting a few. (Arguably top 12 pgs in league)

Nembhard, maybe. White, maybe. Sexton, maybe. Murray, maybe. Quickly, maybe (big money icky).

Who else actually moves the needle? I would say our starting PG is arguably bottom 5 in league right now,. certainly bottom 10.

Maybe so...but does it matter? We've gone to the WCF two straight years, maybe PG isn't as critical a position as some people think.

[Krapinsky]

My thoughts on my Nembard for Donte and Dilly trade idea.

Indiana is going to take a big step back this year losing Turner and Haliburton. The following year Halliburton still will not be 100% (achilles imo is more of a 2-year come back to back to one's oldself), and Siakam will be 33. Having Nembard -- a great role player on a market value contract -- is great to have on a contending team. On a middling team? He's wasted. Trading for Dillingham allows them to invest in a promising young player while bottoming out this year and getting a top 10 pick.

More longterm, Dillingham gives them a younger point guard replacement and someone that could thrive in Carlisle's system. McConnell is 33 and likely will not be effective for much longer at his size. Dante is salary filler here, but gives them another off ball shooter to play with Haliburton for when he returns.

Wolves are in win now mode with Ant entering his prime and Rudy/Randle at the end of their primes. Trading Dillingham is pushing more chips in now. I think we are a capable two-way point guard like Nembard from competing with OKC. TSJ seems ready to step in for Dante.

[Norseman79]

The Nembhard love is IMO over the top and the dissing of DDV and Dilly is a shame. Prove them wrong DDV and Dilly.

Realistically -

Young no chance, Morant no chance, Haliburton no chance, Murray no chance, Maxey no chance, Ball no chance, Brunson no chance, Kyrie no chance, FVV no chance, SGA no chance, Garland no chance, Cunningham no chance and I am sure I am forgetting a few. (Arguably top 12 pgs in league)

Nembhard, maybe. White, maybe. Sexton, maybe. Murray, maybe. Quickly, maybe (big money icky).

Who else actually moves the needle? I would say our starting PG is arguably bottom 5 in league right now,. certainly bottom 10.

Maybe so...but does it matter? We've gone to the WCF two straight years, maybe PG isn't as critical a position as some people think.

I thought about that, and then I thought about issues regarding getting into sets, handling pressure, and the defensive weak link on the team and if it mattered....I believe it did. Mike two years ago isn't the same Mike that is going to be playing this year, and even Mike last year was an issue at times in the playoffs. Why not address a weakness and try to make it a strength?

[Klomp]

Why not address a weakness and try to make it a strength?

It comes down to what you are willing to give up. There's a cost to everything. By upgrading Conley, it probably means something else has to be sacrificed, not only in order to acquire that player but to even fit that salary on the cap sheet.

[winforlose]

Why not address a weakness and try to make it a strength?

It comes down to what you are willing to give up. There's a cost to everything. By upgrading Conley, it probably means something else has to be sacrificed, not only in order to acquire that player but to even fit that salary on the cap sheet.

It depends on how much you value Naz. If you think Naz is starting quality then you you can afford to move Randle. If not, then you either move Naz (not advisable,) or DDV. Beyond that we are pretty locked in. Of course moving Rudy for two players is also an option, but not a good one with Joan in year 1 and not being great at speaking English. They said he learned some last year (did not speak any before that.) Rudy as a mentor will really help him, both linguistically and professionally.

[Klomp]

Why not address a weakness and try to make it a strength?

It comes down to what you are willing to give up. There's a cost to everything. By upgrading Conley, it probably means something else has to be sacrificed, not only in order to acquire that player but to even fit that salary on the cap sheet.

It depends on how much you value Naz. If you think Naz is starting quality then you you can afford to move Randle. If not, then you either move Naz (not advisable,) or DDV. Beyond that we are pretty locked in. Of course moving Rudy for two players is also an option, but not a good one with Joan in year 1 and not being great at speaking English. They said he learned some last year (did not speak any before that.) Rudy as a mentor will really help him, both linguistically and professionally.

But then in doing that, you are also sacrificing bench depth.

[cmoss84]

Probably the most realistic one I'll ever come up with.
DDV for Alvarado and Jordan Hawkins.
Boom.

[Slim Tubby]

Why not address a weakness and try to make it a strength?

It comes down to what you are willing to give up. There's a cost to everything. By upgrading Conley, it probably means something else has to be sacrificed, not only in order to acquire that player but to even fit that salary on the cap sheet.

It depends on how much you value Naz. If you think Naz is starting quality then you you can afford to move Randle. If not, then you either move Naz (not advisable,) or DDV. Beyond that we are pretty locked in. Of course moving Rudy for two players is also an option, but not a good one with Joan in year 1 and not being great at speaking English. They said he learned some last year (did not speak any before that.) Rudy as a mentor will really help him, both linguistically and professionally.

I don't think you could ever emphasize enough the last great point you made regarding the importance of Rudy mentoring JB both on and off the court.

I could also see this type of role putting an extra charge in Rudy's game, too.

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[winforlose]

It comes down to what you are willing to give up. There's a cost to everything. By upgrading Conley, it probably means something else has to be sacrificed, not only in order to acquire that player but to even fit that salary on the cap sheet.

It depends on how much you value Naz. If you think Naz is starting quality then you you can afford to move Randle. If not, then you either move Naz (not advisable,) or DDV. Beyond that we are pretty locked in. Of course moving Rudy for two players is also an option, but not a good one with Joan in year 1 and not being great at speaking English. They said he learned some last year (did not speak any before that.) Rudy as a mentor will really help him, both linguistically and professionally.

But then in doing that, you are also sacrificing bench depth.

Depends on how you look at it. Assume that you have 6 starter quality players. Assume Mike slipped below that point, and NAW left. TSJ (Terrance Shannon Jr is his legal name, so TSJ is better than TJ, his nickname in his personal life,) might be #7. You don’t get a quality PG without giving up a starter quality player or a lot of picks (which we don’t have.) Thus, we move our assets from overly concentrated in one position to more balanced and diverse. Having two quality PFs with only 48 minutes promotes depth, but at the cost of balance. Having 7 starting quality players with one in every position and two off the bench is the better outcome.

[Slim Tubby]

Probably the most realistic one I'll ever come up with.
DDV for Alvarado and Jordan Hawkins.
Boom.

The sample size is so small but I've always been intrigued by the potential of Jordan Hawkins and Cam Whitmore if they got more run with their teams.

Alvarado is far from an inspirational target but he is steady and competent as a backup PG.

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[Klomp]

It depends on how much you value Naz. If you think Naz is starting quality then you you can afford to move Randle. If not, then you either move Naz (not advisable,) or DDV. Beyond that we are pretty locked in. Of course moving Rudy for two players is also an option, but not a good one with Joan in year 1 and not being great at speaking English. They said he learned some last year (did not speak any before that.) Rudy as a mentor will really help him, both linguistically and professionally.

But then in doing that, you are also sacrificing bench depth.

Depends on how you look at it. Assume that you have 6 starter quality players. Assume Mike slipped below that point, and NAW left. TSJ (Terrance Shannon Jr is his legal name, so TSJ is better than TJ, his nickname in his personal life,) might be #7. You don’t get a quality PG without giving up a starter quality player or a lot of picks (which we don’t have.) Thus, we move our assets from overly concentrated in one position to more balanced and diverse. Having two quality PFs with only 48 minutes promotes depth, but at the cost of balance. Having 7 starting quality players with one in every position and two off the bench is the better outcome.

It feels like the Bulls trading Toni Kukoc for Tim Hardaway. Sure, you might be improving the starting PG position....but what is the true impact of that move, especially considering the system Chicago ran? Hardaway would be diminished in the Bulls scheme.

I've said it for going on 5 years now....the PG position really doesn't matter in the traditional sense in Finch's offense. Even when Conley is on the court, he does not really initiate a bunch. Where you really see it matter is in secondary actions, moving the ball from side to side and making the extra pass. That's the type of thing summer league coach Kevin Hanson talked about when discussing growth for Rob Dillingham. The PG is a connector position in this offense, not an initiator.

Could the position use an upgrade? Probably. But I don't think it's as dire as others think.

[winforlose]

The Nembhard love is IMO over the top and the dissing of DDV and Dilly is a shame. Prove them wrong DDV and Dilly.

Realistically -

Young no chance, Morant no chance, Haliburton no chance, Murray no chance, Maxey no chance, Ball no chance, Brunson no chance, Kyrie no chance, FVV no chance, SGA no chance, Garland no chance, Cunningham no chance and I am sure I am forgetting a few. (Arguably top 12 pgs in league)

Nembhard, maybe. White, maybe. Sexton, maybe. Murray, maybe. Quickly, maybe (big money icky).

Who else actually moves the needle? I would say our starting PG is arguably bottom 5 in league right now,. certainly bottom 10.

Maybe so...but does it matter? We've gone to the WCF two straight years, maybe PG isn't as critical a position as some people think.

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

[winforlose]

But then in doing that, you are also sacrificing bench depth.

Depends on how you look at it. Assume that you have 6 starter quality players. Assume Mike slipped below that point, and NAW left. TSJ (Terrance Shannon Jr is his legal name, so TSJ is better than TJ, his nickname in his personal life,) might be #7. You don’t get a quality PG without giving up a starter quality player or a lot of picks (which we don’t have.) Thus, we move our assets from overly concentrated in one position to more balanced and diverse. Having two quality PFs with only 48 minutes promotes depth, but at the cost of balance. Having 7 starting quality players with one in every position and two off the bench is the better outcome.

It feels like the Bulls trading Toni Kukoc for Tim Hardaway. Sure, you might be improving the starting PG position....but what is the true impact of that move, especially considering the system Chicago ran? Hardaway would be diminished in the Bulls scheme.

I've said it for going on 5 years now....the PG position really doesn't matter in the traditional sense in Finch's offense. Even when Conley is on the court, he does not really initiate a bunch. Where you really see it matter is in secondary actions, moving the ball from side to side and making the extra pass. That's the type of thing summer league coach Kevin Hanson talked about when discussing growth for Rob Dillingham. The PG is a connector position in this offense, not an initiator.

Could the position use an upgrade? Probably. But I don't think it's as dire as others think.

When Ant runs the offense, the offense is usually below average or worse. Your point is an excellent knock on Finch, not an endorsement of our offense. Especially end of game when Ant goes hero ball and the offense dries up.

[Klomp]

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

[Klomp]

When Ant runs the offense, the offense is usually below average or worse. Your point is an excellent knock on Finch, not an endorsement of our offense. Especially end of game when Ant goes hero ball and the offense dries up.

Great.....try to have a Top 5 offense like the Hawks. A lot of good it did them....

There are more facets to the NBA than just offense.

[winforlose]

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

Let’s look at the past 7 champions.

2019: FVV
2020: LeBron/Caruso
2021: Jrue Holiday
2022: Steph Curry
2023: Jamal Murray
2024: Jrue Holiday
2025: SGA

Outside of the bubble year (an asterisk in my book,) every year had a solid PG. Not necessarily top 10, but solid. That is what we need. Someone who can make things easier on Ant and bring structure/discipline to our offense.

[Norseman79]

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

Did we make the NBA finals or win a championship either of those two seasons? Not even close.

[Klomp]

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

Let’s look at the past 7 champions.

2019: FVV
2020: LeBron/Caruso
2021: Jrue Holiday
2022: Steph Curry
2023: Jamal Murray
2024: Jrue Holiday
2025: SGA

Outside of the bubble year (an asterisk in my book,) every year had a solid PG. Not necessarily top 10, but solid. That is what we need. Someone who can make things easier on Ant and bring structure/discipline to our offense.

How many of those are really "true PGs" though?

[winforlose]

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

Let’s look at the past 7 champions.

2019: FVV
2020: LeBron/Caruso
2021: Jrue Holiday
2022: Steph Curry
2023: Jamal Murray
2024: Jrue Holiday
2025: SGA

Outside of the bubble year (an asterisk in my book,) every year had a solid PG. Not necessarily top 10, but solid. That is what we need. Someone who can make things easier on Ant and bring structure/discipline to our offense.

How many of those are really "true PGs" though?

Guys who run the offense, facilitate, and contribute offensively, outside of maybe Murray, and again excluding 2020, all of them.

[Klomp]

23/24 Mike was playing great, when he got hurt we lost.
24/25 Mike was not playing great, the team looked bad, beat small and weak teams (one of whom was hurt.) First good team we played we lost.

Both series lost in 5. I could turn that back at you and ask, can we ever win a chip without a GREAT PG?

A lot of the talk here has been about adding a Top 10 PG. Has Mike Conley been a Top 10 PG in either of these two seasons? Not even close.

Did we make the NBA finals or when a championship either of those two seasons? Not even close.

So we should change what was working? You sound like Mat Ishbia....go to the Finals but because he lost he completely changed the direction of the franchise rather than staying patient.