Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[tedbrogen]

Not sure why people are worried about defensive rebounding during GA’s minutes. He can dominate the boards himself if need be.

[raferfenix]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

Didn't realize Barrett was so good in transition agree that's notable.

Is his defense where you think he'd be the wrong guy, or not really a SF / not a great shooter, or what's up?

In theory the Bucks helping Toronto duck the tax would be a major part of the value exchange is where I could most easily see Barrett being a distressed asset we'd target. Giving up a first would be a different story.

[Brewhoopfan]

I'll also add that defensive scheme is a huge factor in rebounding. As much as everyone hated Brook in the drop, it kept him relatively close to the rim and allowed Giannis to stay home (not rotate) and crash the boards. If you're wanting Giannis to switch onto perimeter players, now an undersized poor rebounder like GTJ at the 3 is more of a problem. If someone could just convince Kuzma to cut, he'd be really valuable on offense. His lack of self awareness is off the charts.

[LUKE23]

Bucks were 1st in 3-point percentage last year and 18th in attempts. Now, I understand with GA they won't be 1st in attempts, but they should be higher than 18th. It is not coincidental at all that all of GA's best 2-man net ratings are with the shooters. It allows him to play in space without guys hanging all over him.

KPJ-Green-Trent-GA-Turner provides 4 3-point shooters, a team that can for the most part switch across the board, and a team that can push pace with GA. I think it's pretty cut and dried. I am hoping game 5 of the Indy series is what put this offseason in motion, and we see the same type of lineup to start the year.

[soxperry]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

Didn't realize Barrett was so good in transition agree that's notable.

Is his defense where you think he'd be the wrong guy, or not really a SF / not a great shooter, or what's up?

In theory the Bucks helping Toronto duck the tax would be a major part of the value exchange is where I could most easily see Barrett being a distressed asset we'd target. Giving up a first would be a different story.

I just dont think Barrett is bad enough to warrant giving him away for tax savings. Especially if they are taking bad contract back. I could be wrong but i feel like we have to send them something along the lines of 32 swap.

If you think theres another level to Barrett, it may be worth it. But i keep going back to: do you want to shoot part of your wad on an unknown and ruin your chance at a no doubt player? At a certain point, if you have too many gambles on the roster it becomes extremely unlikely that they all hit. Free gambles like Cole are fine. Spending draft assets has to work out now

[tedbrogen]

I'll also add that defensive scheme is a huge factor in rebounding. As much as everyone hated Brook in the drop, it kept him relatively close to the rim and allowed Giannis to stay home (not rotate) and crash the boards. If you're wanting Giannis to switch onto perimeter players, now an undersized poor rebounder like GTJ at the 3 is more of a problem. If someone could just convince Kuzma to cut, he'd be really valuable on offense. His lack of self awareness is off the charts.

Good points. I think I’d roll the dice on giving up a couple extra boards a game if it means proper spacing on offense without a modern day Gadzuric out there spazzing out on offense.

Kuz might be the most self-unaware player in the history of the league.

[tedbrogen]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

Didn't realize Barrett was so good in transition agree that's notable.

Is his defense where you think he'd be the wrong guy, or not really a SF / not a great shooter, or what's up?

In theory the Bucks helping Toronto duck the tax would be a major part of the value exchange is where I could most easily see Barrett being a distressed asset we'd target. Giving up a first would be a different story.

I just dont think Barrett is bad enough to warrant giving him away for tax savings. Especially if they are taking bad contract back. I could be wrong but i feel like we have to send them something along the lines of 32 swap.

If you think theres another level to Barrett, it may be worth it. But i keep going back to: do you want to shoot part of your wad on an unknown and ruin your chance at a no doubt player? At a certain point, if you have too many gambles on the roster it becomes extremely unlikely that they all hit. Free gambles like Cole are fine. Spending draft assets has to work out now

Pros on RJ: plays with pace, seems good in transition, can get his own shot, and MIGHT have another level
Cons on RJ: below average three point shooter with little hope of sustained improvement based on his free throw percentage, can he guard wings any better than AJG or GTJ?

So, yeah, he’s worth it if it’s only Kuz and they want out of the tax that badly, but I wouldn’t give them any sort of draft compensation beyond a secondary swap on the 26 pick because realistically the Bucks SHOULD finish better than them anyways. Or they can have another swap on which pick is already swapped with the Blazers and the Wiz. I definitely wouldn’t give up anything in 31 or 32 for a guy who can’t space the floor and isn’t a good defender.

[German Athens]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

Didn't realize Barrett was so good in transition agree that's notable.

Is his defense where you think he'd be the wrong guy, or not really a SF / not a great shooter, or what's up?

In theory the Bucks helping Toronto duck the tax would be a major part of the value exchange is where I could most easily see Barrett being a distressed asset we'd target. Giving up a first would be a different story.

He’s not actually good in transition he just gets out there a lot.

Initially, some of the numbers seem decent, like 47% from the field, but when you check out his shooting splits things get ugly.

With some inefficient players, you can tell them to up their 3pt and rim volume, and cut out some of the middle stuff, but in RJ’s case he’s already doing that and he’s still not an efficient player.

He takes a plurality of his shots within 3 feet and shoots 62%. That’s a really bad mark. He gets out in transition a ton, but he scores 1.05 ppp which is the 34th percentile.

He’s already doing the things at high volume that boost efficiency, but he’s still comfortably below average overall. His role needs to be reduced pretty significantly, but then what are you getting? Role players need to be finishers from outside or at the rim, and he doesn’t do either well, or he would need to be a standout defender, but he’s not that either.

He’s not worth his contract, and he’s not a good fit with Giannis.

[ReasonablySober]

Watch on YouTube

This is all amazing. Beas......JEEZ.

[Bernman]

Not sure why people are worried about defensive rebounding during GA’s minutes. He can dominate the boards himself if need be.

Because that's provably false. Giannis/Bobby had by far the worst defensive rebounding % in the NBA, until a late surge that made them worst by a little (won by a small margin overall due to o-boards). Brook/Giannis marginally lost overall. Turner's worse for rebounding than both.

Simply having Giannis in a lineup, especially in the regular season, is not some kind of rebounding elixir. He takes a lot of plays off. Then still he's only one guy. We need to have decent defensive rebounding from the 1-3 spots. KPJ helps. But hard to have another dead spot like GTJ.

We certainly care about posting rebounding %'es of 47, w/ guys like GTJ on the court, when they're happening. That means the opponent is getting 6% more possessions. There were a lot of games where the opponent took double-digit more shots for that & TO's. Hard to win that way.

We should balance our lineups where we're neutral to positive in all 3 areas of the game: offense, defense, & rebounding. It's tricky if you're going to have Turner & 3 guards. Could at least toggle that so the 3 guards are decent to good rebounders for guards, unlike Trent.

[mediocrityrules]

The more I hear about Cole Anthony, the more I believe that he's not really moving the needle at all for this team except for that one game a month where he really shows out. I can see many games where Kuz, TP and Cole all crap the bed together because of their inconsistency.

This is going to be a frustrating rollercoaster of a season.

Jfc dudes on a minimum cet contract wtf you expecting who you exoecting them to sign at a minimum whose better tbis was a great signing especialky if he finds his mojo again.
Moving the needle you fu... kiddng me your not finding anyone to "move the needke" for you at a vet minimum

Nah you don't get it. The point is we're building a team where we have 5-6 positions that are going to get a lot of minutes that all have real consistency problems. It all adds up. Its the sum of the parts being the problem, of which Cole is another piece that just adds to the problem.

[M-C-G]

Just watched my first Cole Anthony highlights from last year. A 25 year old Jarryd Bayless feels about right. No idea how people are down on that for a vet min. Will be a fun player with the spacing Giannis provides. Shrewd move

Side note, not many 6’2 dudes that have ever stuffed Giannis. That not nothing

[BigO]

Teams don't generally give up on explosive guards with a high skill level. No one wanted him. His situation isn't analagous to BP, but there are good players who fall thru the cracks.

He isn't highly skilled. He is an offenisve player who is inefficient and can't play good defense and is very short.

Taking a flyer on a midget guard isn't the worst thing to do, but I want a more switchable player.

And I want to Doc proof this roster as much as possible. There are only two current guys I wouldn't want to see in a rotation. I'm fine with everyone else.

Ummm. You’ve described pretty much our entire guard rotation.

"I want a explosive efficient scorer who's switchable on defense" Is the crux of his complaint

Like no **** dude. Pretty confident we all would. We're talking about a vet minimum, end of the rotation, pickup here though

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I liked the Gary Harris pickup and he fits my defintion and is a minimum.

We didn't need a shooting guard in a point guard body.

[BigO]

Just watched my first Cole Anthony highlights from last year. A 25 year old Jarryd Bayless feels about right. No idea how people are down on that for a vet min. Will be a fun player with the spacing Giannis provides. Shrewd move

Side note, not many 6’2 dudes that have ever stuffed Giannis. That not nothing

You watched season highlights and you liked them. What could go wrong?

[Rstuedes24]

If Trey Murphy is actually on the table

I'm not sure he's ever been on the table. Kind of impressed with how quickly his name spread like wildfire throughout Bucks fandom as a trade option when there was little to no speculation or rumors about Bucks having interest or the Pelicans even shopping him. Add him to the list of board darlings.

The Pelicans publicly stated his price at the start of the offseason. A playoff rotation player, a young player, and 2- 1sts.

Kuzma/AJG/31

Kuzma/Ajax/31/32 swap/30 secondary swap

[M-C-G]

Just watched my first Cole Anthony highlights from last year. A 25 year old Jarryd Bayless feels about right. No idea how people are down on that for a vet min. Will be a fun player with the spacing Giannis provides. Shrewd move

Side note, not many 6’2 dudes that have ever stuffed Giannis. That not nothing

You watched season highlights and you liked them. What could go wrong?

About as valuable as citing stats from other teams, running other systems and players playing in other roles?

[M-C-G]

Not sure why people are worried about defensive rebounding during GA’s minutes. He can dominate the boards himself if need be.

Because that's provably false. Giannis/Bobby had by far the worst defensive rebounding % in the NBA, until a late surge that made them worst by a little (won by a small margin overall due to o-boards). Brook/Giannis marginally lost overall. Turner's worse for rebounding than both.

Simply having Giannis in a lineup, especially in the regular season, is not some kind of rebounding elixir. He takes a lot of plays off. Then still he's only one guy. We need to have decent defensive rebounding from the 1-3 spots. KPJ helps. But hard to have another dead spot like GTJ.

We certainly care about posting rebounding %'es of 47, w/ guys like GTJ on the court, when they're happening. That means the opponent is getting 6% more possessions. There were a lot of games where the opponent took double-digit more shots for that & TO's. Hard to win that way.

We should balance our lineups where we're neutral to positive in all 3 areas of the game: offense, defense, & rebounding. It's tricky if you're going to have Turner & 3 guards. Could at least toggle that so the 3 guards are decent to good rebounders for guards, unlike Trent.

I’ve said before, Giannis is not a good rebounder despite his physical ability and the amount he gets. That’s one of the reasons he paired well with Brook, to keep bodies off him. But looks like we are finding guards that hunt rebounds more which would be welcome.

[tedbrogen]

I do wonder with all the emphasis about playing faster if we will target Barrett. He got out in transition a lot in Toronto, and he had the highest pace on that team.

I think he’d be the wrong guy to target, but he does fit some of the buzzwords the Bucks keep throwing out there.

Didn't realize Barrett was so good in transition agree that's notable.

Is his defense where you think he'd be the wrong guy, or not really a SF / not a great shooter, or what's up?

In theory the Bucks helping Toronto duck the tax would be a major part of the value exchange is where I could most easily see Barrett being a distressed asset we'd target. Giving up a first would be a different story.

He’s not actually good in transition he just gets out there a lot.

Initially, some of the numbers seem decent, like 47% from the field, but when you check out his shooting splits things get ugly.

With some inefficient players, you can tell them to up their 3pt and rim volume, and cut out some of the middle stuff, but in RJ’s case he’s already doing that and he’s still not an efficient player.

He takes a plurality of his shots within 3 feet and shoots 62%. That’s a really bad mark. He gets out in transition a ton, but he scores 1.05 ppp which is the 34th percentile.

He’s already doing the things at high volume that boost efficiency, but he’s still comfortably below average overall. His role needs to be reduced pretty significantly, but then what are you getting? Role players need to be finishers from outside or at the rim, and he doesn’t do either well, or he would need to be a standout defender, but he’s not that either.

He’s not worth his contract, and he’s not a good fit with Giannis.

Those are ugly numbers that make it seems like it would be better to simply not play Kuz and wait for the deadline if RJ is the best available option.

[tedbrogen]

Not sure why people are worried about defensive rebounding during GA’s minutes. He can dominate the boards himself if need be.

Because that's provably false. Giannis/Bobby had by far the worst defensive rebounding % in the NBA, until a late surge that made them worst by a little (won by a small margin overall due to o-boards). Brook/Giannis marginally lost overall. Turner's worse for rebounding than both.

Simply having Giannis in a lineup, especially in the regular season, is not some kind of rebounding elixir. He takes a lot of plays off. Then still he's only one guy. We need to have decent defensive rebounding from the 1-3 spots. KPJ helps. But hard to have another dead spot like GTJ.

We certainly care about posting rebounding %'es of 47, w/ guys like GTJ on the court, when they're happening. That means the opponent is getting 6% more possessions. There were a lot of games where the opponent took double-digit more shots for that & TO's. Hard to win that way.

We should balance our lineups where we're neutral to positive in all 3 areas of the game: offense, defense, & rebounding. It's tricky if you're going to have Turner & 3 guards. Could at least toggle that so the 3 guards are decent to good rebounders for guards, unlike Trent.

I’ve said before, Giannis is not a good rebounder despite his physical ability and the amount he gets. That’s one of the reasons he paired well with Brook, to keep bodies off him. But looks like we are finding guards that hunt rebounds more which would be welcome.

Have something to back that up?
GA had the same amount of rebounds per game over the past five seasons, which includes a full season without Brook boxing out for him. Based on that, Brook boxing out didn’t really affect his number of boards per game.

Anecdotally, we’ve all seen when GA decides to impose his will, he can guard almost anyone and then go get the rebound himself.

I’d need some solid advanced stats to demonstrate how a top three player in the world who is 6’11” with freak athleticism and averages 11 boards a game, was sixth in rebounds per game last season, and has gotten more than 20 boards nine times in his career is somehow not a good rebounder.

[M-C-G]

Because that's provably false. Giannis/Bobby had by far the worst defensive rebounding % in the NBA, until a late surge that made them worst by a little (won by a small margin overall due to o-boards). Brook/Giannis marginally lost overall. Turner's worse for rebounding than both.

Simply having Giannis in a lineup, especially in the regular season, is not some kind of rebounding elixir. He takes a lot of plays off. Then still he's only one guy. We need to have decent defensive rebounding from the 1-3 spots. KPJ helps. But hard to have another dead spot like GTJ.

We certainly care about posting rebounding %'es of 47, w/ guys like GTJ on the court, when they're happening. That means the opponent is getting 6% more possessions. There were a lot of games where the opponent took double-digit more shots for that & TO's. Hard to win that way.

We should balance our lineups where we're neutral to positive in all 3 areas of the game: offense, defense, & rebounding. It's tricky if you're going to have Turner & 3 guards. Could at least toggle that so the 3 guards are decent to good rebounders for guards, unlike Trent.

I’ve said before, Giannis is not a good rebounder despite his physical ability and the amount he gets. That’s one of the reasons he paired well with Brook, to keep bodies off him. But looks like we are finding guards that hunt rebounds more which would be welcome.

Have something to back that up?
GA had the same amount of rebounds per game over the past five seasons, which includes a full season without Brook boxing out for him. Based on that, Brook boxing out didn’t really affect his number of boards per game.

Anecdotally, we’ve all seen when GA decides to impose his will, he can guard almost anyone and then go get the rebound himself.

I’d need some solid advanced stats to demonstrate how a top three player in the world who is 6’11” with freak athleticism and averages 11 boards a game, was sixth in rebounds per game last season, and has gotten more than 20 boards nine times in his career is somehow not a good rebounder.

His physical gifts are his rebounding ability. We’ve all seen his passive style, didn’t really think that was controversial. Raw numbers are obviously good despite not having that second gear for rebounds. Agree or disagree, not a big deal to me, not that important of a point given how great he is.

I will add, ‘not good’ was poor wording by me. Could be the best rebounder of all time with his gifts, but that is nitpicking on my end