Summer league roster

[Scoot McGroot]

I've long known that we could have 21 players under contract in the off season but I didn't realize there was not a limit of 3 two-ways within that 21. We can sign both Freeman and Peter to two-ways now and sort it out later.

There is always a 3 two way limit, but you can sign players to camp contracts (exhibit 10’s) and then assign them to the main roster or two ways later.

[Wizop]

I've long known that we could have 21 players under contract in the off season but I didn't realize there was not a limit of 3 two-ways within that 21. We can sign both Freeman and Peter to two-ways now and sort it out later.

There is always a 3 two way limit, but you can sign players to camp contracts (exhibit 10’s) and then assign them to the main roster or two ways later.

Tony's podcast seemed to say otherwise. You said previously that Peter couldn't be signed to an Exhibit 10 because he'd been drafted. that wouldn't apply to Freeman.

[Pacers Forever]

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Dang it. Not a good sign not being able to stay healthy enough to consistently be counted on. Hopefully it’s the Pacers holding him back for cautionary reasons and not the player being injury prone.

[Wizop]

Dang it. Not a good sign not being able to stay healthy enough to consistently be counted on. Hopefully it’s the Pacers holding him back for cautionary reasons and not the player being injury prone.

It hasn't been an issue in prior years. I think we just have no need to see what he can do in Summer League, We know him.

[Scoot McGroot]

I've long known that we could have 21 players under contract in the off season but I didn't realize there was not a limit of 3 two-ways within that 21. We can sign both Freeman and Peter to two-ways now and sort it out later.

There is always a 3 two way limit, but you can sign players to camp contracts (exhibit 10’s) and then assign them to the main roster or two ways later.

Tony's podcast seemed to say otherwise. You said previously that Peter couldn't be signed to an Exhibit 10 because he'd been drafted. that wouldn't apply to Freeman.

I don’t think I did? At least, I didn’t mean that if I said it? He could be signed to an exhibit ten to be placed onto either a two way or the main roster later. He can’t sign an exhibit ten for the “bonus” that he could receive if he was waived and then signed to a g league deal later. At least, wee couldn’t do that and then keep his rights, as he’d be a free agent with no draft rights to be kept.

[JMaster5K]

There is always a 3 two way limit, but you can sign players to camp contracts (exhibit 10’s) and then assign them to the main roster or two ways later.

Tony's podcast seemed to say otherwise. You said previously that Peter couldn't be signed to an Exhibit 10 because he'd been drafted. that wouldn't apply to Freeman.

I don’t think I did? At least, I didn’t mean that if I said it? He could be signed to an exhibit ten to be placed onto either a two way or the main roster later. He can’t sign an exhibit ten for the “bonus” that he could receive if he was waived and then signed to a g league deal later. At least, wee couldn’t do that and then keep his rights, as he’d be a free agent with no draft rights to be kept.

Typing from memory here,... so there's a 60-40 chance I got this wrong,... but I thought Scoot said, first round draft choices can't be signed to 2-way contracts? Because they are locked into the 'rookie scale' contract or nothing?..... second round draft choices or UDFA can be signed to 2-ways, exhibit 10's, or regular contracts?.....

Roster Limits:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/08/hoops-rumors-glossary-nba-roster-limits-2.html

[jowglenn]

Wait a minute, can I be signed to an exhibit 10 deal??!?!

[Scoot McGroot]

Wait a minute, can I be signed to an exhibit 10 deal??!?!

Heck yeah, bud!

[Pacers Forever]

Halftime and Furphy has 2 aggressive driving dunks for 11 points and 4 rebounds. Kam Jones finally getting loose with 2 nice looking 3’s for 13 points. Phillip Wheeler has 12 points. Very bad first quarter and much better second quarter to get back within 4 points at 57-53 Bulls. Unfortunately Ray J not looking good.

[Wizop]

Halftime and Furphy has 2 aggressive driving dunks for 11 points and 4 rebounds. Kam Jones finally getting loose with 2 nice looking 3’s for 13 points. Phillip Wheeler has 12 points. Very bad first quarter and much better second quarter to get back within 4 points at 57-53 Bulls. Unfortunately Ray J not looking good.

RayJ looking much better in the 3rd Q. I need to see more from Freeman.

[Wizop]

Furphy could push Walker for minutes.

[Pacers Forever]

Halftime and Furphy has 2 aggressive driving dunks for 11 points and 4 rebounds. Kam Jones finally getting loose with 2 nice looking 3’s for 13 points. Phillip Wheeler has 12 points. Very bad first quarter and much better second quarter to get back within 4 points at 57-53 Bulls. Unfortunately Ray J not looking good.

RayJ looking much better in the 3rd Q. I need to see more from Freeman.

Freeman double double

[Wizop]

Halftime and Furphy has 2 aggressive driving dunks for 11 points and 4 rebounds. Kam Jones finally getting loose with 2 nice looking 3’s for 13 points. Phillip Wheeler has 12 points. Very bad first quarter and much better second quarter to get back within 4 points at 57-53 Bulls. Unfortunately Ray J not looking good.

RayJ looking much better in the 3rd Q. I need to see more from Freeman.

Freeman double double

Another player with a better second half. I've lost the broadcast late in the 4th.

[Pacers Forever]

Pacers lose again 114-105 and I think if Q was healthy the Pacers could be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

The Good
Furphy played well offensively with 15 points and 6 rebounds.
Wheeler 16 points.
Freeman 17 points and 10 rebounds.
Kam Jones 6-9 and 4-5 from 3 for 18 points 4 rebounds 6 assists 3 steals 6 turnovers
Ray J 7-14 and 3-6 from 3 for 20 points 5 assists 3 steals

The Bad
Furphy’s man scored 28 points
Taelon Peter finally hits the wall with his first poor game shooting 3-8 and 0-5 from 3 for 8 points
5 Bulls players made the Pacers defense look bad
Essengue 21 points
Buzelis 28 points
Freeman-Liberty 18 points 8 rebounds
Kawamura 15 points 10 assists
Olbrick 12 points 9 rebounds

In summary good to see aggressive Furphy but I don’t think he’s NBA ready yet. He looks like Walker did where we hoped he would mature fast but he’s just not ready yet through no fault of his.

Taelon struggled today so it will be interesting to see if he turns it around next game.

Kam Jones finally looked more like he belongs showing out today offensively.

Even though Enrique hustled to a scrappy double double he reminds me of a man who has no good position to play. (Terry Taylor) I don’t think he makes the roster. Could also compare his fate to that of Oscar Tshiebwe.

Ray J looked better than last game and I think he retains a two way spot.

Phillip Wheeler played well offensively but I dont know that he’s in the Pacers plans.

[JMaster5K]

Pacers lose again 114-105 and I think if Q was healthy the Pacers could be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

The Good
Furphy played well offensively with 15 points and 6 rebounds.
Wheeler 16 points.
Freeman 17 points and 10 rebounds.
Kam Jones 6-9 and 4-5 from 3 for 18 points 4 rebounds 6 assists 3 steals 6 turnovers
Ray J 7-14 and 3-6 from 3 for 20 points 5 assists 3 steals

The Bad
Furphy’s man scored 28 points
Taelon Peter finally hits the wall with his first poor game shooting 3-8 and 0-5 from 3 for 8 points
5 Bulls players made the Pacers defense look bad
Essengue 21 points
Buzelis 28 points
Freeman-Liberty 18 points 8 rebounds
Kawamura 15 points 10 assists
Olbrick 12 points 9 rebounds

In summary good to see aggressive Furphy but I don’t think he’s NBA ready yet. He looks like Walker did where we hoped he would mature fast but he’s just not ready yet through no fault of his.

Taelon struggled today so it will be interesting to see if he turns it around next game.

Kam Jones finally looked more like he belongs showing out today offensively.

Even though Enrique hustled to a scrappy double double he reminds me of a man who has no good position to play. (Terry Taylor) I don’t think he makes the roster. Could also compare his fate to that of Oscar Tshiebwe.

Ray J looked better than last game and I think he retains a two way spot.

Phillip Wheeler played well offensively but I dont know that he’s in the Pacers plans.

After watching the highlights for this game & thinking back on the others,... for me, the 2-way guys are Peter & Q,... the third spot is between Freeman & Ray J?... and frankly, I'm not sure I keep either of them? Freeman scored well, inside of 4 feet,... He was playing as an interior defender most of the time, but he's not big enough for that. Could be that we simply don't have anyone else to try? He was primarily a big wing defender last year,... but in this game, when he switched out onto a big wing, he got torched.

Buzelis did get 28, but that's not all on Furphy. He got 10 from fouls alone. He got another 8 that I saw when we cross-matched guards onto him, because he was playing the perimeter (at that point). Though most of the game was a Furphy-Buzelis matchup.

The bad for me,... was the defense and shooting in the first quarter. We started cold,... but we simply didn't stop ball, or defend the entry passes (in transition & half court),... way too many easy shots at the rim. Part of that could be our lack of true bigs. Also,... the defense in the last 4 minutes of the game,... once again, we didn't stop the ball, even when we had defensive numbers,... they were getting all the way to the rim, barely needed to change speed to get there.

Kam did look a LOT better,... I still don't really like his handle. He seems to stand & dribble to find the pass. We aren't really playing a motion passing game,... but this is summer league & these guys probably don't know each other well enough for that? His D looked good enough,... It's just my opinion,... but if Drew starts at the point,... Kam may get most of his minutes, off the bench, at the 2? He plays a lot like Drew, but I don't think he's as manipulative as Drew. He could be the secondary ball-handler, passer, shooter off the bench?

[Pacers Forever]

Pacers lose again 114-105 and I think if Q was healthy the Pacers could be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

The Good
Furphy played well offensively with 15 points and 6 rebounds.
Wheeler 16 points.
Freeman 17 points and 10 rebounds.
Kam Jones 6-9 and 4-5 from 3 for 18 points 4 rebounds 6 assists 3 steals 6 turnovers
Ray J 7-14 and 3-6 from 3 for 20 points 5 assists 3 steals

The Bad
Furphy’s man scored 28 points
Taelon Peter finally hits the wall with his first poor game shooting 3-8 and 0-5 from 3 for 8 points
5 Bulls players made the Pacers defense look bad
Essengue 21 points
Buzelis 28 points
Freeman-Liberty 18 points 8 rebounds
Kawamura 15 points 10 assists
Olbrick 12 points 9 rebounds

In summary good to see aggressive Furphy but I don’t think he’s NBA ready yet. He looks like Walker did where we hoped he would mature fast but he’s just not ready yet through no fault of his.

Taelon struggled today so it will be interesting to see if he turns it around next game.

Kam Jones finally looked more like he belongs showing out today offensively.

Even though Enrique hustled to a scrappy double double he reminds me of a man who has no good position to play. (Terry Taylor) I don’t think he makes the roster. Could also compare his fate to that of Oscar Tshiebwe.

Ray J looked better than last game and I think he retains a two way spot.

Phillip Wheeler played well offensively but I dont know that he’s in the Pacers plans.

After watching the highlights for this game & thinking back on the others,... for me, the 2-way guys are Peter & Q,... the third spot is between Freeman & Ray J?... and frankly, I'm not sure I keep either of them? Freeman scored well, inside of 4 feet,... He was playing as an interior defender most of the time, but he's not big enough for that. Could be that we simply don't have anyone else to try? He was primarily a big wing defender last year,... but in this game, when he switched out onto a big wing, he got torched.

Buzelis did get 28, but that's not all on Furphy. He got 10 from fouls alone. He got another 8 that I saw when we cross-matched guards onto him, because he was playing the perimeter (at that point). Though most of the game was a Furphy-Buzelis matchup.

The bad for me,... was the defense and shooting in the first quarter. We started cold,... but we simply didn't stop ball, or defend the entry passes (in transition & half court),... way too many easy shots at the rim. Part of that could be our lack of true bigs. Also,... the defense in the last 4 minutes of the game,... once again, we didn't stop the ball, even when we had defensive numbers,... they were getting all the way to the rim, barely needed to change speed to get there.

Kam did look a LOT better,... I still don't really like his handle. He seems to stand & dribble to find the pass. We aren't really playing a motion passing game,... but this is summer league & these guys probably don't know each other well enough for that? His D looked good enough,... It's just my opinion,... but if Drew starts at the point,... Kam may get most of his minutes, off the bench, at the 2? He plays a lot like Drew, but I don't think he's as manipulative as Drew. He could be the secondary ball-handler, passer, shooter off the bench?

Good points JMaster5K. I agree that Kam’s straight up handle looks awkward and I don’t know if he will easily get the ball stolen or just contested into a forced turnover or forced pass. To me he most resembles Benn Mathurin. I know that’s a huge reach currently. I’m not sure if he or Taelon can be ball handlers in the big league yet but I can see potential small roles. Too early to expect that. Taelon reminds me of a Sheppard clone. One aspect they’ve both been good at in SL is driving to the rim for a layup and they look like they have a smooth shot. They both look decent and hopefully they can both get the movement in our offense down to become even better depth and more fluid.

I definitely think Quenton can get minutes to fill in at the point even though he’s a two guard. I’m not sold on Ray J’s handling yet but I can see potential. Just not sure he’s ready for the big show. Shep has to improve his shooting and his handle this season to be that steady and consistent player with Ty out. We know he’s a good quick passer, but I think he has so much more potential to become a 10 point nightly player. I hope for a breakout season.

Another candidate to bring the ball up court is Jarace Walker however I don’t see him being a point getting the offense started. Just helping get it to the front court. He is a wild card this season and we know he can bring the ball up. I hope he breaks out this season and becomes the aggressive player that he has potential to become. It’s really the best opportunity he’s going to get with us being a starter down.

Mathurin of course will be huge this season from a scoring aspect as long as he keeps his head straight. Hopefully he can be a steady handler to carry some of that load. Luckily a lot of the Pacers ball movement from out of bounds to the front court can be passing along with our motion offense.

Speaking of Drew becoming the primary ball handler he’s got to improve his over dribbling into a steal situation. He’s so chill which is great most of the time when dealing with pressure. I could use just a bit more urgency like Tyrese possesses. Otherwise he can have a big impact on the offense most nights this season with less shooters to defer to.

Playing off your comment about the two ways and with Bradley’s spot non guaranteed I can see the Pacers looking for a point guard through free agency, a trade, or maybe an impressive SL player pick up who can bring the ball up steadily and get the offense going with little investment on their part. Will be interesting to see how the roster develops.

[Wizop]

I also thought Kam played like a shorter left handed Mathurin.

[Scoot McGroot]

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Well, even if we wanted Jarace Walker to play in summer league, he simply couldn’t have.

East: Do you know where Jarace Walker is with his recovery from an ankle injury?

Carlisle: Progressing. I don’t know exactly where he is. But I know he’s probably back on the court now. In terms of what percent of full recovery, I don’t know. But we’ll find out soon. It’s a short summer, so he’s going to have to get after it.

[8305]

I also thought Kam played like a shorter left handed Mathurin.

I didn’t watch games 1 or 3. Does he look like a legit 2nd ball handler?

[JMaster5K]

I also thought Kam played like a shorter left handed Mathurin.

I didn’t watch games 1 or 3. Does he look like a legit 2nd ball handler?

IMO,... yes? When he isn't guarded coming up court,... his dribble is really high? Even when guarded at the top of the key, if he's looking over the floor,.. it's still waist high?... It seems a bit weird? even 'herky-jerky'? But,.. I've only seen the ball stolen once. So, it seems to work. Some of his passes in the 3rd game were very nice. So, yeah, IMO he could be a secondary ball handler & probably even a point?....

I think his handle is a bit better than Benn, but they do look very similar, most certainly when not guarded.