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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

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How many wins do you expect the Suns to have this season?

61+
4
5%
56-60
0
No votes
51-55
0
No votes
46-50
4
5%
41-45
16
21%
36-40
14
18%
31-35
21
27%
26-30
14
18%
25 or under
5
6%
 
Total votes: 78

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1441 » by Sunsdeuce » Thu Jul 17, 2025 2:27 am

garrick wrote:Josh Bartelstein needs to be fired for initiating the Beal trade that has crippled this franchise and the fact he is still in the FO makes me think Ishbia is a poor judge of character.

This trade sealed the end for this franchise with all the pick swaps that will likely have us not having a lottery pick until 2032 while also having 20M in dead cap space for the next 5 years.


Maybe Ishbia should practice what he preaches about accountability. Just saying
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1442 » by Frank Lee » Thu Jul 17, 2025 2:35 am

Being pro or con about stretching Beal means nothing. Fact is, 2 months ago the writing was on the wall that off loading Beal was going to happen. Getting under the aprons HAD to happen. 2 + 2 logic said to try to trade him or buy out and stretch him. That was it. The notion this front office was going to hang around and really suck for two yrs, with none of our own picks, to then play the free agent game in ‘27, was fools gold for all you armchair gms. Nobody should be surprised.

Time to move on….
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1443 » by Sunlight » Thu Jul 17, 2025 2:42 am

Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1444 » by KdoubleDees23 » Thu Jul 17, 2025 3:13 am

[x][/x]
Sunlight wrote:Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.


Well next year when we go 42-40 you going to complain about it !
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1445 » by Sunsdeuce » Thu Jul 17, 2025 3:25 am

Almost two decades on this forum and I still don’t understand why people rage on people here when they dont agree with their opinion.

What’s the point of a forum if people can’t share their opinions as long as they aren’t being disrespectful or threatening to other forum members?

If you don’t like what someone says, don’t reply or if you reply, try to make a point without raging.

OR just keep raging if it makes you feel good.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1446 » by SkyBill40 » Thu Jul 17, 2025 4:30 am

Fo-Real wrote:
PhxLax wrote:On radio, Gambo said they will sign 1 more guard and then that's it, they're done. No trades, nothing. Just 1 guard. He squashed all of Brogdon, Melton, CP3, Westbrook, and Ben Simmons.

Question is, what guard they gonna sign? I can only think of: Gary Payton, Cam Payne, Blanton, and Cory Joseph.

I think GP2 is your best bet. Injury riddled but Warriors winning mentality, defense, toughness.


Malcom Brogdon?
Injury plagued as much as Beal or Durant. We need an available player and while Brogdon is serviceable, he's not going to be that guy.

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1447 » by SkyBill40 » Thu Jul 17, 2025 4:31 am

garrick wrote:Josh Bartelstein needs to be fired for initiating the Beal trade that has crippled this franchise and the fact he is still in the FO makes me think Ishbia is a poor judge of character.

This trade sealed the end for this franchise with all the pick swaps that will likely have us not having a lottery pick until 2032 while also having 20M in dead cap space for the next 5 years.
Doesn't help that Beal's agent is Josh's old man, either.

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1448 » by garrick » Thu Jul 17, 2025 4:50 am

SkyBill40 wrote:
garrick wrote:Josh Bartelstein needs to be fired for initiating the Beal trade that has crippled this franchise and the fact he is still in the FO makes me think Ishbia is a poor judge of character.

This trade sealed the end for this franchise with all the pick swaps that will likely have us not having a lottery pick until 2032 while also having 20M in dead cap space for the next 5 years.
Doesn't help that Beal's agent is Josh's old man, either.

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He did his old man a favor by getting Beal out of Washington and eventually getting Beal to his dream location in LA.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1449 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:05 am

Mr Puddles wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Beal is high up on my list of least favorite Suns ever along with James Jones, Mario Elie, and Robert Horry


No Morris twins and Bledsoe?

No. Kieff was my favorite Sun for awhile. Getting Marcus was the mistake there. Bledsoe was fine sans the hair salon thing
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1450 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:07 am

I don't get the Beal did nothing wrong crowd but in the same breath hate on everything Booker does. Y'all need to reevaluate if this is worth following if that's how you feel.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1451 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:08 am

Bartelstein should be gone for this. No question about it. I agree with you all there.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1452 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:09 am

Sophie Cunningham deserved better
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1453 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:09 am

Sunlight wrote:Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.

Nobody going to games to see Beal tank command in street clothes.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1454 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:12 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Beal is high up on my list of least favorite Suns ever along with James Jones, Mario Elie, and Robert Horry

Not for me. Blame the guys making the decisions to bring him in knowing full well what's in his contract.

I threw in JJ. Don't know what happened there but he put us in a **** situation by wasting assets on players like Shamet, trading for T0rey Craig 9 times and trying to trade for wrong Brooks brother, not wanting Shai, wouldn't have drafted Booker, didn't scout at all among many other things. I don't have time to list out how **** he was minus the CP3 trade and drafting CJ.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1455 » by Bogyo » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:44 am

Sunlight wrote:Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.


Yep, as I've been saying all along too. You do that, you get a haul back. Then you got leverage in the KD trade - either he plays here and expires in a year, or get a bit better return back. Worst case he doesnt play, we send him home and he expires in a year.
Then the year after that Beal is an expiring, he might even be traded for a couple seconds if he builds his value a bit...
So essentially, you would have a competitive team with the Book haul and the KD trade, a couple of draft picks going forward, and a pretty clean salary sheet in 2 years - all the things the FO is preaching about, but clueless and dumb and too much of a p*ssy to pull it off, becouse they love Book.
I love book to, I dont like Beal (and his salary), and I hate KD. Still, I would have done the Booker trade 100 times out of a 100 if it was about the intrest of the Suns - short and long term. But I guess this decision was made out of personal feelings, not admiting failure, pipe dreams and pure incompetence.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1456 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:48 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:If we're taking flyers, hell bring back Monte Morris who was done dirty after we brought in Jones. Give me Cam Payne. Give me Chris Paul. Give me Simmons. Give me Russ. Give me Brogdan. Give me Cam Thomas.

Oladipo just isn't moving the needle


Lol. Sure! And I'd love to acquire most any of those names too over Oladipo too. But which of those names are even realistically connected to us? And which are we actually pursuing? As far as moving the needle, how much comparative variance would you he expecting from those names contextually.

And how many are willing or would sign for the vet minimum over the MLE? Because again, with Oladipo, I'm talking about the vet minimum and not having to spend the MLE in this scenario:

Monte Morris-
Would he even be willing to come back here and play for us on the minimum after not getting any playing time at all last season? Also, he's like what,

Cam Payne-
An undersized scoring guard with suspect defense who's in a better situation just going back and resigning with the Knicks where at least he can compete.

Chris Paul-
Our front office has already dismissed the idea of bringing back Paul, and even though I'd love to have him back to straighten out Booker and mentor our youngsters, it's much more likely he signs with the Clippers to actually have a chance at a championship and be much closer to his family too.

Ben Simmons-
I'd love Simmons as a defensive/ playmaking low usage utility guard with elite size that could move Booker back to his natural position at SG and compliment Booker in a very simplified role defensively.

However, our front office has shown no interest in him at all, and Simmons also likely wouldn't choose us over many of the interested contenders or even returning to the Clippers!

Russell Westbrook-
I've lobbied for Westbrook (much like Paul)
for awhile now, but clearly our front office isn't interested. Also, Westbrook has numerous interested teams/ contenders and better situations to consider over us.

Malcolm Brogdon-
Brogdon would be solid, but would he even consider playing for us on a vet minimum when he has a solid market of interest? Because I surely wouldn't want us to spend our MLE on him.

And really, at this stage of his career and given his post injury condition, is he really that much of a better option than an equitable flier on Olidipo though? Not really sure it even matters though because I'd strongly doubt that Brogdon would sign with us on a vet min anyways.

Cam Thomas-
Thomas is truly a good scorer, but does he do much else?? At 6'3 maybe 6'4 he would honestly be more redundant to Booker and Green as a scoring oriented guard with questionable defense.

But none of that would matter anyways because he's not a realistic option for us with the big payday that he's looking for. No way would we get him for the vet minimum, and probably not even the MLE.

Not that it matters, because he'd be a redundant and really poor fit, but also wouldn't come here to be logjammed with two other ball dominant scoring guards already on the roster.

What I'm looking at with the Olidipo premise is actual attainable players for the vet minimum, at that position with upside value (even as potential reclamation projects) that have size, athleticism and defensive versatility that could possibly compliment Booker and J Green. Do some ballhandling, defend and operate in a utility role ideally.

Olidipo, given our current conditions, fits that criteria fairly well. And even in a worst case scenario, if he couldn't successfully mount a comeback, he'd still be a vet min signing that we could just waive for little to no detriment.

It's a value swing we'd be looking at that hasn't definitive potential to move the needle if successful. But would cost us next to nothing if it didn't pan out. Sometimes it's more about being open minded to outlier opportunities in order to extract underlying value.



Oladipo's premise is that he's DESPERATE to get on an NBA roster, any NBA roster. And every disqualifying factor you've noted with the guys I've suggested, could just as easily disqualify VO, like his subpar career 3PT%, OLD CP3 has played more games last season than VO has in the last 4 seasons, we haven't shown any interest in VO, VO is more or less Cam Thomas sized and talking about post-injury concerns with Brogdon in the same sentence as Oladipo doesn't help your case.


The difference still being the overall market demand disparity between the names that you mentioned and Olidipo. As you yourself stated. he's "DESPERATE" to make ANY TEAM! Yet most of the names you've mentioned either have multiple suitors interested, or most likely wouldn't entertain coming here on a vet min and not being in a contending opportunity.

Those factors alone create a significant disparity between those comparisons and lean into favoring my position as he'd clearly be much more easily attainable for us, simply by virtue of not having multiple bidders.

As for his subpar 3PT% being a disqualifier for consideration, again, his value to us should be in his ballhandling abilities, athleticism, and above all else his defensive playmaking in a low usage utility role. So his 3 PT struggles would be fairly irrelevant to the premise behind adding him in a defensive complimentary role.

And his injury history being well known, that's the trade off of why he'd come do cheap and with little to no financial risk (long term commitment/ large salary required) involved! Hence the "flier" designation. Lastly, Oladipo has already well established his elite defensive reputation, and has shown the ability to play make reasonably well at 3.9 assists per game. So again, the two specific criteria necessary to compliment our plethora of scoring oriented SGs is obviously present.


And lastly, the difference between Brogdon and Oladipo is again a distinct variance in not only athleticism, and defensive prowess. But more importantly legitimate availability for THE VET MIN! Olidipo not having the same competitive market that Brogdon is currently fielding.

So which player do you honestly believe we have a more realistic chance of signing. :dontknow:
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1457 » by DirtyDez » Thu Jul 17, 2025 6:19 am

The Book extension has a PO in year two. I still don’t understand the timing of that extension or why they’re giving him the leverage to exercise a $75m option in 2030.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1458 » by Mr Puddles » Thu Jul 17, 2025 6:47 am

RaisingArizona wrote:
Sunlight wrote:Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.

Nobody going to games to see Beal tank command in street clothes.


As supposed to the stampede of fans who will rush to the arena to get watch a team with less draft capital than any other team in the league, more dead salary than any other team in the league, and coming off one of the worst records in the league, play?

The Suns offseason could have gone like this:
  • do the Magic trade, Booker is better than Bane and the ORL pick swap would have given us controlled over our on pick in 2026 (the Washington pick swap is protected)
  • still execute the KD trade, but reroute some of the draft capital recieved from ORL to get control over our 2027 pick.
  • Keep Beal and let him expire in two years.

The Suns could have moved below the second apron, have control over their own picks for the next two years, and then entered the 2027 season with a ton of capspace and young rookies, while still having left over draft capital from the Orlando trade.

A two year mini rebuilt and we would have been in a good situation moving forward.

Instead, we opted to be a treatmill team which won't have capspace or control over its own pick until Ryan Dunn turns 30.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1459 » by garrick » Thu Jul 17, 2025 6:49 am

Bogyo wrote:
Sunlight wrote:Should have kept Beal and traded Booker for future picks. Beal would have been the perfect tank commander. Now we're facing at least 7-8 years of embarrassing time at the bottom.


Yep, as I've been saying all along too. You do that, you get a haul back. Then you got leverage in the KD trade - either he plays here and expires in a year, or get a bit better return back. Worst case he doesnt play, we send him home and he expires in a year.
Then the year after that Beal is an expiring, he might even be traded for a couple seconds if he builds his value a bit...
So essentially, you would have a competitive team with the Book haul and the KD trade, a couple of draft picks going forward, and a pretty clean salary sheet in 2 years - all the things the FO is preaching about, but clueless and dumb and too much of a p*ssy to pull it off, becouse they love Book.
I love book to, I dont like Beal (and his salary), and I hate KD. Still, I would have done the Booker trade 100 times out of a 100 if it was about the intrest of the Suns - short and long term. But I guess this decision was made out of personal feelings, not admiting failure, pipe dreams and pure incompetence.
Oh well, I can and will have time in the next 30 years to follow, just like I did in the last 30. Here is hoping for better times - but those not gonna come in the next 5 years...


The problem with keeping Booker is we barely have any draft capital to work with now so what's really the point of surrounding Book with late draft selection rookies, 2 way players and old vets when even prime MJ would have a hard time getting this roster into the playoffs?

There's nothing worse than being a bad team and not having any lottery picks to dig your way out of the hole but trading Book would get you some draft capital back which would let us reset for the future.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1460 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 17, 2025 6:55 am

RaisingArizona wrote:Bartelstein should be gone for this. No question about it. I agree with you all there.

What value does Bartelstein even bring to the table. Like seriously, I need to know

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