Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS

[Pacers Forever]

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I agree just be honest like this tweet was and stick with the original story.

[JMaster5K]

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I agree just be honest like this tweet was and stick with the original story.

I agree,... part of this was about 'getting the bag',.... But I don't think that's the whole story. I think part of this is about ego,... about how Myles views himself, and how he wants to be viewed around the league? I also think there's a bit of agent manipulation going on? Not 'turn to the darkside, Luke' manipulation,... but influence to put the agency in the best position, without dramatically impacting the players position? I could be wrong,... as you've heard me say before,.. it wouldn't be the first time,.. today.

I think all the public innuendoes in these statement support those ideas? I mean the agents first statements, in an attempt to do damage control for leaving, were about how cheap Pacers ownership is,... and how 'with Tyrese's injury, they weren't willing to go into the tax to keep Myles',... which turned out to be hogwash. However, it is a clear sign that someone was working on managing Myles 'brand' and reputation.

There's a bit of truth in everything. Is our ownership cheap? Well,... in a word (and my opinion), Yes. Has their reluctance to invest in potential, or invest in a possibility cost the Pacers team the opportunities to maybe contend for a championship? I would say probably. Though they have invested in teams that have already developed into contending teams. It's the middle ground where they fall short,... those teams that are so close contention, and just need that bit of continuity from a little bit of investment to pay off,... but it's not a sure thing,... in those cases, we generally don't do it.

It's kinda like PG's throwing the team under the bus with the, 'but I had AD all ready to go, you just had to get him & we would have won everything' set of statements & articles that are still being pulled out & trashed around today. PG may have convinced AD, that being on the Pacers was a great idea. AD may have even liked that idea. But the reality was that both were under contract at the time, & the only player the Pacers could have traded that might have acquired AD was PG! It was all utter nonsense,... but it's now being posted about again to reinforce the lie that the Pacers won't spend,... with that little bit of truth, 'the Pacers are cheap',... to give it some foundation.

Has it also kept us from having those 'Bradley Beal' type of contracts that can kill a teams chances to even be competitive for half an decade? Again, very, very likely.

That first bit of propaganda didn't play the way Myles or his agents thought,.. at least locally, nationally, every sports news agency picked it up & ran with it. Thanks Myles, for giving a black-eye to all the Indy fans that have supported you, by taking the neither the high road, nor the low road, but the bigger middle road, where you attack the franchise, but in a back handed way, so you can claim 'moral high ground' of playing the victim & justifying your actions. Which frankly, didn't need to be justified in the first place. You don't need to explain,... you picked the Bucks,... great! I'm disappointed, but I really wish you well & pray you have the best seasons you've ever had,... except when you play the Pacers. Move on,....

Instead, he or the person managing his public reputation, doubled down on his pointing the finger at the Pacers with his 'I want to be competitive this next year',... Pacers were likely to still be competitive even with Tyrese injury,... IMO, Myles just gave up on his coaches & the other Pacers players? or, was it suggested that there were other opportunities where he could still be competitive, when that wasn't a sure with the Pacers?

There have been a number of posts saying he just wanted the bag,... which again, I think is partly true. He wanted to be paid more. BUT, if he really just wanted the bag,... he would have come back to the Pacers with the Bucks offer & negotiated between the teams to get the biggest bag he could. (we've seen this every FA period. This is kinda normal,... didn't happen in this case.) Both KP & Myles agent admitted that the Pacers did not get a chance to counter the Bucks offer.

Yes,... a bit of truth in everything,... a bit of the bag,.. a bit of competitiveness,... but neither of those jibe with Myles letter. I have to believe, this is about Myles being sold on there being an opportunity with the Bucks for him to be the 'second best player on the team', to have the attention, to be considered one of the prime players, to try to grow his reputation & future income, and that he couldn't have those same opportunities with the Pacers. this was about someone stroking his ego about being the player & having the attention that he sees in himself?

The first sentence that Myles emphasized in his letter was, that 'I'm a MAN'. To me, that sentence really didn't fit that letter at all? in any way,.. it sticks out like sore thumb. So, why?.... It suggests that someone was telling him that the Pacers were not taking him seriously & treating him like a 'man',... and that suggestion hit a nerve. Suggesting to any of the Pacers players that they aren't being an adult,... is definitely not KP's style.

This idea that he could be something bigger than he already is, wasn't going to happen on the Pacers with both Tyrese and Pascal on the team.

He can have that with the Bucks, 'cause they really don't have anyone else. (Well, until they pick up Cole Anthony on the cheap,... then, who knows?) Giannis is going to initiate the offense & be the primary offensive catalyst. To do that, he needs shooters around him, and a 5 that can play on both ends of the floor, particularly 5-out on offense. In MIL, Myles is, at least to me, the clear #2, behind only a perennial all star.

Frankly, that could be enough to give them a deep playoff run? I don't expect that,... but I'm not going to take anything away from Giannis or Myles. They do have a good fit, and with a couple of other players levelling up, could be right there in the playoffs?

Why would his agency suggest this? work this? don't get me wrong, I don't think the agency went to the Bucks & said 'hey, stretch Dame & you can sign Myles'. I do think when the opportunity came up, they realized the possibilities,... The agency is also Tyrese's agency,... they also represent OB1,... and they represent I-Jax.

I'm cynical enough to imagine,... they they would think,.. hey,.. Myles is going to get better money than their first offer. If Myles leaves,... then we maximize the value for I-Jax. Also, we move a player that we think we can manage to even higher salaries away from a team where that is not likely, and get them out 'into the league' where we have that chance. Finally, the primary salaries on this Pacers team are Tyrese & Pascal,... Tyrese is part of their portfolio.

It is completely possible, even likely, as each teams cap is essentially a 'zero sum game', that getting money for Tyrese would at some point mean less money available for Myles,... or getting more money for Myles, would impact the pot available for Tyrese. Agencies do look at these things & actively try to avoid situations where they could be negotiating against themselves.

The only thing that could throw a monkey wrench in the machinery?... would be if Myles got a better offer than the Bucks offer from the Pacers & decided to resign. Pacers weren't even given that opportunity?

The views expressed in this way, overly wordy posts are those of a cynical, middle-aged man, who is quite accustomed to being completely wrong.

[Pacers Forever]

I agree that Myles decision was about the bag and about his ego. Also going to a situation where he was the second wheel instead of the third wheel in Indy. He would never be able to surpass the stature and abilities and stardom of Tyrese and Pascal and he knows it. They’re Indy’s future and for him to not want to continue to strive for the title here shows that he’s decided it’s more about me than team.

That’s ok with me because he can’t even be an all star and soon he’ll be entering the back half of his career. I hope we hear he and Bobby get into a teammate brawl lol. I for one think Huff and I-Jax might just surprise and do a great job at the 5. I’m not as high on Wiseman being better than these two but I’m confident that he can score and rebound in close. He needs to develop his defense footwork to not be a liability.

[JMaster5K]

I agree that Myles decision was about the bag and about his ego. Also going to a situation where he was the second wheel instead of the third wheel in Indy. He would never be able to surpass the stature and abilities and stardom of Tyrese and Pascal and he knows it. They’re Indy’s future and for him to not want to continue to strive for the title here shows that he’s decided it’s more about me than team.

That’s ok with me because he can’t even be an all star and soon he’ll be entering the back half of his career. I hope we hear he and Bobby get into a teammate brawl lol. I for one think Huff and I-Jax might just surprise and do a great job at the 5. I’m not as high on Wiseman being better than these two but I’m confident that he can score and rebound in close. He needs to develop his defense footwork to not be a liability.

Yeah, I don’t begrudge Myles anything. I just wish he come out & said something like ‘hey, I love Indy. But, I think there’s a better opportunity for me to be the player I think I can be in MIL.’


But that’s 20-20 hindsight,… so?

[AussiePacer]

He’s not a pacer anymore, blah.

Adding some juice to the Bucks rivalry though. Don’t mind it.

[JMaster5K]

Was just listening to Setting the Pace,... the episode just after Myles introduction press conference in Vegas,....

I have nothing other than their statement,... but they said, when Myles posted about leaving Indy,... Benn reposted this

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lwLgUHYkNxo

as a response,...

[One_and_Done]

I mean, I don't see how this has anything to do with ego or agent manipulation. Turner wanted to be paid appropriately, and the Pacers lowballed him. Some of the reported offers were borderline insulting tbh.

For some reason I have never understood, the Pacers have had him on the trade block pretty much every year. I don't think with that context anyone can call Turner disloyal. He would have been happy to stay if the Pacers just came correct and offered him a fair contract at his market rate.

[JMaster5K]

I mean, I don't see how this has anything to do with ego or agent manipulation. Turner wanted to be paid appropriately, and the Pacers lowballed him. Some of the reported offers were borderline insulting tbh.

For some reason I have never understood, the Pacers have had him on the trade block pretty much every year. I don't think with that context anyone can call Turner disloyal. He would have been happy to stay if the Pacers just came correct and offered him a fair contract at his market rate.

There were a lot of offers quoted by the press,... but the ones that we know were on the table (confirmed by 1 party or the other) would have had a difference of something like 3M in the first year, and 16M over the life of the proposed contract. Yeah,... that matters. I would take the bigger offer.

It's how it was done that makes me think there was more to the story than just comparing offers? He took the MIL offer & never gave the Pacers a chance to counter? never even told the Pacers there was another offer on the table? If you believe KP & Buchanan, they found out from the press release? Not a tactic you would take if you were only trying to get the biggest bag.

When I said 'Ego' above,... I wasn't trying to imply 'overblown ego',... or I would have said that,... I was using it in the psychological sense,... that he sees himself as being capable of being more than he is with the Pacers, and that he doesn't see the opportunity to become that version of himself, as a member of the Pacers. As I tried to say above,... if that's the case,. then more power to him. He should have the chance to chase his best version and his happy.

I do hope he has his best year ever,... except when he plays the pacers.

I do know (as I have had dealings with a few of these agencies & these types of agencies) that they do manage their contracts not just to maximize the situations for their clients, but also to manage their "portfolio's" to maximize profit/minimize risk, just like any good investment broker. Again,... just on the face of the confirmed facts from 1 party or the other,... I would surmise that this played out well for the both Myles and his agency. Particularly with the other players who would or could be impacted by the change, or the precedent this sets for future negotiations?

In any case,... he is in Milwaukee. Personally, I wish him the best & hope he is & remains happy.

P.S. I did see your point about the Pacers lowballing. I don't disagree,... but I don't think it was as bad as has been mass media reported (again looking at what was confirmed). I can't see that difference causing anyone hurt feelings, just on it's face? But,... do I think there are things that the Pacers could have done,... should have done to 'expand the pie' and sweeten the bag for Myles,... yes. At the very least, short sighted on the Pacer part. (Assuming of course that they viewed Myles as the best option for the coming season.)

[One_and_Done]

Why should Turner give them a chance to match? If your employer had lowballed you because they thought you had no leverage, would you give them a chance to match? Especially if they'd had you on the trade block for years...

[JMaster5K]

Why should Turner give them a chance to match? If your employer had lowballed you because they thought you had no leverage, would you give them a chance to match? Especially if they'd had you on the trade block for years...

If what I really cared about was only the bag,.... yes. LOL

[Wizop]

And Turner being on the trade block is often overstated. Receiving offers is not the same as trying to trade him

[Scoot McGroot]

And Turner being on the trade block is often overstated. Receiving offers is not the same as trying to trade him

They did actively shop him for awhile. Remember, he’m was only a Pacer for as long as he was relied partially on getting a foot or ankle injury one deadline, making him untradeable, and forcing Indy to field offers for Sabonis (where they were able to grab Hali).


Ultimately, Turner stayed on the market for more than 24 hours. That’s an ETERNITY in free agency where cash goes quick. Clearly, he prioritized Indy and really wanted to make it work, and it just didn’t. Ultimately, and Carlisle confirmed this, Milwaukee made an offer that needed an immediate answer (as it required a major move of stretch waiving Dame), and didn’t allow him to shop it. The Milwaukee offer had to clearly be better than what Indy was offering for him to not circle back and ask Indy to bump it a little bit.

[Pacers Forever]

I’ll be glad when we can move on and quit talking about Myles. Can’t wait to see if Huff becomes an instant fan favorite center and if Isiah still has that quick ability to jump after the injury, adding weight and muscle. Cmon season

[Wizop]

And Turner being on the trade block is often overstated. Receiving offers is not the same as trying to trade him

They did actively shop him for awhile.

I didn't mean to say he was never available. I only meant he wasn't on the market as often as some people think he was.

[basketballwacko2]

Why should Turner give them a chance to match? If your employer had lowballed you because they thought you had no leverage, would you give them a chance to match? Especially if they'd had you on the trade block for years...

I could understand Turner not wanting to give the Pacers a chance to match or do better but you assertion that he's "been on the trade block for years." is not the case. He has been involved in many rumors but only one that was legit and that was the talk of him being traded to Boston for Gordon Hayward shortly before Hayward signed with Charlotte.

[basketballwacko2]

I’ll be glad when we can move on and quit talking about Myles. Can’t wait to see if Huff becomes an instant fan favorite center and if Isiah still has that quick ability to jump after the injury, adding weight and muscle. Cmon season

Agreed Turner is gone and not coming back, so it's Huff and Jackson for now. The Pacers will look for a young center in the draft in the next year or 2.

[JMaster5K]

And Turner being on the trade block is often overstated. Receiving offers is not the same as trying to trade him

They did actively shop him for awhile. Remember, he’m was only a Pacer for as long as he was relied partially on getting a foot or ankle injury one deadline, making him untradeable, and forcing Indy to field offers for Sabonis (where they were able to grab Hali).


Ultimately, Turner stayed on the market for more than 24 hours. That’s an ETERNITY in free agency where cash goes quick. Clearly, he prioritized Indy and really wanted to make it work, and it just didn’t. Ultimately, and Carlisle confirmed this, Milwaukee made an offer that needed an immediate answer (as it required a major move of stretch waiving Dame), and didn’t allow him to shop it. The Milwaukee offer had to clearly be better than what Indy was offering for him to not circle back and ask Indy to bump it a little bit.

You are probably right?... but I seem to remember a few writers (& not just Greggy D.) quietly saying that Turner & Sabonis were both being shopped to see who had the most value? who could generate the best return? to start re-thinking the Pacers roster? Because Myles & Doma as a froncourt weren't working; moving either of them was going to force the team to re-tool; and the Pacers were happy to do that re-tooling around either of them?

So, to the actual point,... yeah,.. they would have shopped Myles around a bit. But, from what I can remember (please take into account that I have slept at least once since these things happened?...) He wasn't actually being shopped most of the time that trade rumors were floating around? That a bunch of those rumors turned out to be from teams checking up on Myles, or arm-chair GM's (uhhhh,.. like me. ) creating mock trades hoping they could 'will' Myles onto their team? (probably because of the obvious mismatch with Myles & Doma?)

Again,... those 'possibilities' were reported & followed by the main-stream, BB media,...a LOT. Just like when the suns stunk & there were all those articles,... a few a day, about 'free Book',.. get him outta there,... he's joining this team, no he's joining another team,... For the player, after a while, that has to just get tiring.

So,... I just gotta wish him all the best! That's in the past. Looking forward to see what this season brings!

Like Coach Carlisle's comments from the FAN video posted above about empowering Benn,... and the potential to use Jarace as a backup point guard? and how they could use I-Jax ball handling (yeah,.. he said it!) to open up floor? Those comments alone have me buying popcorn for the 25-26 season!

[Scoot McGroot]

Shopping is a tough word to use. Let’s say that Indy was essentially listening to offers on Myles more heavily than other players for a very long while. Much longer than any reporter has likely reported?

I think he’d have been gone a long time ago if offers were better over the years?