2025 Summer League

[Klomp]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I think it's important to see players filling multiple roles. That's honestly part of why I think Finch has stuck with tighter rotations...the guys who have played more are able to fill multiple roles. That way if a play breaks down and guys are "out of position", they still know what to do from different spots on the floor.

When I spend my time categorizing players, I do so within the context of the "Horns" offense that is a Finch staple. There are different variations, but more or less, Horn revolves around a primary playmaker and a big man. From there, you have a secondary playmaker on one of the wings and the other two guys in each of the corners (or one in the dunker's spot).

Ant is going to be the primary or secondary playmaker on most possessions, unless things get off balance. The big men have to be able to switch responsibilities. But here's the thing....people talk about Mike or Rob being the "PG" when in actuality, there are many possessions over the course of a game where that player is the third or fourth player to touch the ball on that possession. The initial action is run for Ant and the big man. This could be a pick and roll, but the big man kicks it out to the corner. They might get an open shot or they'll swing the ball. THIS is where the secondary playmaker (be it Mike or Rob or anyone else) has to make the decision. And I think this is where Rob needed to learn most this offseason. Finch talked often about the ball getting stuck on one side of the ball. This is because a second swing pass wasn't made to the other side (where Ant or let's say Julius here) had relocated to after the initial action.

Now, I was talking about players filling multiple roles, right? Here's how I currently would break things down:
Ant: Anything but big man
Julius: Really can play anywhere imo
Rudy: Either big man
Jaden: I actually think he has the potential to play anywhere. Corner not ideal, nor is primary, however.
Naz: Anything but primary
Mike: Anything but big man
Rob: Anything but big man
TJ: Anything but big man
Donte: Anything but big man
Joan: Either big man
Jaylen: Probably just corners, but possibly secondary playmaker as well
Leonard: Either big man
Joe: In his hey-day, anything but big man

A couple of Finch's favorite guys who are no longer here, Kyle and Nickeil both had tons of offensive versatility within the system. This gives Finch the ability to mix and match lineups, because guys are not confined to just PG, SG, SF, PF, or C. This is also why I am less worried about PG.....it's about skill sets a player offers more than the position label.

[Klomp]

Charlotte is our most likely hope

[winforlose]

Charlotte is our most likely hope

Dilly was limping and I am guessing done for summer league. If that is the case, and we have already seen TSJ dominate, I don’t think the extra game matters at all. JB, Miller, and Clark will still get their run, and summer league will end.

[minimus]

Love to see Rob playing well against elite defenders such as Dunn and Malauch

[Norseman79]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I think it's important to see players filling multiple roles. That's honestly part of why I think Finch has stuck with tighter rotations...the guys who have played more are able to fill multiple roles. That way if a play breaks down and guys are "out of position", they still know what to do from different spots on the floor.

When I spend my time categorizing players, I do so within the context of the "Horns" offense that is a Finch staple. There are different variations, but more or less, Horn revolves around a primary playmaker and a big man. From there, you have a secondary playmaker on one of the wings and the other two guys in each of the corners (or one in the dunker's spot).

Ant is going to be the primary or secondary playmaker on most possessions, unless things get off balance. The big men have to be able to switch responsibilities. But here's the thing....people talk about Mike or Rob being the "PG" when in actuality, there are many possessions over the course of a game where that player is the third or fourth player to touch the ball on that possession. The initial action is run for Ant and the big man. This could be a pick and roll, but the big man kicks it out to the corner. They might get an open shot or they'll swing the ball. THIS is where the secondary playmaker (be it Mike or Rob or anyone else) has to make the decision. And I think this is where Rob needed to learn most this offseason. Finch talked often about the ball getting stuck on one side of the ball. This is because a second swing pass wasn't made to the other side (where Ant or let's say Julius here) had relocated to after the initial action.

Now, I was talking about players filling multiple roles, right? Here's how I currently would break things down:
Ant: Anything but big man
Julius: Really can play anywhere imo
Rudy: Either big man
Jaden: I actually think he has the potential to play anywhere. Corner not ideal, nor is primary, however.
Naz: Anything but primary
Mike: Anything but big man
Rob: Anything but big man
TJ: Anything but big man
Donte: Anything but big man
Joan: Either big man
Jaylen: Probably just corners, but possibly secondary playmaker as well
Leonard: Either big man
Joe: In his hey-day, anything but big man

A couple of Finch's favorite guys who are no longer here, Kyle and Nickeil both had tons of offensive versatility within the system. This gives Finch the ability to mix and match lineups, because guys are not confined to just PG, SG, SF, PF, or C. This is also why I am less worried about PG.....it's about skill sets a player offers more than the position label.

Great analysis, and maybe I am over reacting to the PG position, I hope I'm wrong

[Sealab2024]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I'm just not sure we were watching the same thing then. Rob is a project, a multi year project with tremendous upside. I think we as wolves fans have become a bit distorted in our early evaluations of players due to decades of drafting high, not seeing guys develop and then cutting bait before they're 25 years old. Rob is seven years, nearly a decade away, from his prime. When he came in last year he hadn't even started for Kentucky and had no real clue how to even begin running the offense. This year, he is running the offense. Sometimes he runs it very well, other times he makes mistakes. Last year he was skinnier than most 12 year old boys, this year he's put on weight and muscle and doesn't look completely out of place. That's all called development and that's what you want to see.

Nobody is asking him to run the offense for 38 minutes a night and orchestrate entire games. He won't even be doing that if he fully develops cause that's Ants job. At this point we're asking him to run the second team against backups for 15 minutes a night which I think he's capable of.... Especially playing with Naz and Donte as opposed to Leonard Miller and whoever else decides to show up.

[Norseman79]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I'm just not sure we were watching the same thing then. Rob is a project, a multi year project with tremendous upside. I think we as wolves fans have become a bit distorted in our early evaluations of players due to decades of drafting high, not seeing guys develop and then cutting bait before they're 25 years old. Rob is seven years, nearly a decade away, from his prime. When he came in last year he hadn't even started for Kentucky and had no real clue how to even begin running the offense. This year, he is running the offense. Sometimes he runs it very well, other times he makes mistakes. Last year he was skinnier than most 12 year old boys, this year he's put on weight and muscle and doesn't look completely out of place. That's all called development and that's what you want to see.

Nobody is asking him to run the offense for 38 minutes a night and orchestrate entire games. He won't even be doing that if he fully develops cause that's Ants job. At this point we're asking him to run the second team against backups for 15 minutes a night which I think he's capable of.... Especially playing with Naz and Donte as opposed to Leonard Miller and whoever else decides to show up.

See, I don't think it's Ant's job, I think it's been put on him out of necessity and that he would actually be better playing off ball a lot more. I don't have an issue thinking Rob could develop into a backup PG. I have an issue thinking he is a starter at that position. And maybe it is Finch's system, in which case, might as well just start DD at PG because Ant handles anyway, but that just seems like stagnation, turnovers, and frustration waiting to happen.

[minimus]

The last two games got me thinking (a lot of fouls) — what if Rob learns how to consistently draw fouls?

That’s something that doesn’t come naturally to Edwards or Randle. But Rob is different — he’s shifty, has great footwork, and plays with pace variation. He’s not like Edwards, who came into the league built like a tank at 230 lbs. Rob is more in the mold of SGA — a skinny guard who learned how to survive and thrive in the NBA by using angles, timing, and deception.

If Rob can add that to his game, his offensive ceiling could rise significantly.

[dschroeder01]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I can't lump Dilly in with guys like Poole or Simons as they have never shown the passing upside that Dilly has shown already. Dillingham is obviously not a guy who can hit the ground running as a natural PG, but to me he has clear natural passing chops well beyond combo guard level. Some of the passes he makes are way ahead of guys like you're suggesting. That said, I don't think we actually need "the guy" to run and facilitate our offense.

I think we need to keep in mind that with Ant on the team we're really not ever likely to utilize the traditional PG skills of a young Chris Paul or Mike Conley type. Current version Conley is more of a caretaker PG who controls the game, can intiate a set when needed, and can thrive playing off of Ant. We need to improve our offense, but I don't think it has to be via adding a traditional PG because the ball is going to be in Ant's hands most of the time. What we need is a suped up version of what Conley currently is. A guy who can initiate the offense by getting Ant the ball in good sets and hit 3s or attack 2nd side playing off Ant. The flashes we've seen from Rob could fill that role well offensively if he learns to moderate his poor decisions.

[Norseman79]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I can't lump Dilly in with guys like Poole or Simons as they have never shown the passing upside that Dilly has shown already. Dillingham is obviously not a guy who can hit the ground running as a natural PG, but to me he has clear natural passing chops well beyond combo guard level. Some of the passes he makes are way ahead of guys like you're suggesting. That said, I don't think we actually need "the guy" to run and facilitate our offense.

I think we need to keep in mind that with Ant on the team we're really not ever likely to utilize the traditional PG skills of a young Chris Paul or Mike Conley type. Current version Conley is more of a caretaker PG who controls the game, can intiate a set when needed, and can thrive playing off of Ant. We need to improve our offense, but I don't think it has to be via adding a traditional PG because the ball is going to be in Ant's hands most of the time. What we need is a suped up version of what Conley currently is. A guy who can initiate the offense by getting Ant the ball in good sets and hit 3s or attack 2nd side playing off Ant. The flashes we've seen from Rob could fill that role well offensively if he learns to moderate his poor decisions.

100%, and if that's all the person is doing on offense they should be good to great defensively and in the miscellaneous categories. I disagree on the idea that we don't need a traditional point guard, as I look to some of the great scoring guards in history, not only could they isolate, they also had traditional facilitators getting them the ball in places that maximize their skill sets. While they didn't necessarily have elite offensive point guards, they did have solid starting traditional point guards. With the exception being the years that the bulls had Ron Harper essentially starting at point guard with Jordan and Pippin who both had the ability to initiate offense next to him.

[BlacJacMac]

Love to see Rob playing well against elite defenders such as Dunn and Malauch

[dschroeder01]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I can't lump Dilly in with guys like Poole or Simons as they have never shown the passing upside that Dilly has shown already. Dillingham is obviously not a guy who can hit the ground running as a natural PG, but to me he has clear natural passing chops well beyond combo guard level. Some of the passes he makes are way ahead of guys like you're suggesting. That said, I don't think we actually need "the guy" to run and facilitate our offense.

I think we need to keep in mind that with Ant on the team we're really not ever likely to utilize the traditional PG skills of a young Chris Paul or Mike Conley type. Current version Conley is more of a caretaker PG who controls the game, can intiate a set when needed, and can thrive playing off of Ant. We need to improve our offense, but I don't think it has to be via adding a traditional PG because the ball is going to be in Ant's hands most of the time. What we need is a suped up version of what Conley currently is. A guy who can initiate the offense by getting Ant the ball in good sets and hit 3s or attack 2nd side playing off Ant. The flashes we've seen from Rob could fill that role well offensively if he learns to moderate his poor decisions.

100%, and if that's all the person is doing on offense they should be good to great defensively and in the miscellaneous categories. I disagree on the idea that we don't need a traditional point guard, as I look to some of the great scoring guards in history, not only could they isolate, they also had traditional facilitators getting them the ball in places that maximize their skill sets. While they didn't necessarily have elite offensive point guards, they did have solid starting traditional point guards. With the exception being the years that the bulls had Ron Harper essentially starting at point guard with Jordan and Pippin who both had the ability to initiate offense next to him.

Would you consider Mike Conley a traditional PG? Rob's assists/100 and Ast% from his rookie year at age 19 were nearly identical to Mike's career numbers. I'm not saying that assists are the sole indicator of being a "PG" but they do speak to a player having the inclination and role of setting up teammates for buckets. They're a marker for creating offense for the team and the initial results are that Rob does that on par with the expectation for a PG. Rob still has a ways to go as far as limiting mistakes and generally running an offense, but IMO Rob is much, much closer to a traditional PG than he is to the combo guards you listed.

[younggunsmn]

It was nice to see Rob get aggressive in the 4th quarter I think that was the first time I've seen him trying more to assert his own will than afraid of screwing up since we drafted him and the results were good.

Maluach looked a little less slow and stiff that I thought he would. I don't think he's going to be anything special but he could carve out a long career as a defensive minded center.

Beringer can cover ground defensively though oh my word if he ever puts it all together he could be really really special on the defensive end.
Like better than Rudy special.

He seems to have good instincts but has a lot of bad technique right now that's going to lead to lots of fouling until he's more polished.
Especially against the more skilled players he will face in the regular season.
Struggles to get himself into good defensive rebounding position.
Also a ton to learn on offense but I don't cringe whenever he touches the ball like I do with Rudy which is a compliment.
He has sticky hands in traffic but he's really starting from square one offensively both from a skill and IQ perspective.
He's going to have a lot to learn.
How to read the ballhandler on the pick and roll and delay his dive to the basket if his teammate is going to drive.
How to read the defender to set up screens, when to rescreen, sealing off the help on drives etc.
He's got a really special frame + mobility + leaping ability skillset though.
I'm a lot more impressed and optimistic about his future after watching him in summer league than I was watching film of him pre-draft.

Leonard Miller seems to be a really good player in transition and undeniably terrible in the halfcourt.
His shot looks as broke as the day we drafted him.
Very hit or miss defensively but decent enough hunting defensive rebounds and putbacks.
Looks very much like a 12th roster spot player but hey we've got to have those guys too.

Rocco still looks like Bambi on skates. A lot like Jesse Edwards looked last summer.
Had a couple of really nice outlet passes that lead to layups in the 3rd game.
He's just not strong or quick enough right now.
Maybe a year and a half in a NBA quality training program can unlock all that potential because it's hard to be effective in this league without a solid base underneath you.

Jesse Edwards looks a lot less like a stiff this summer. Put on muscle since last summer, especially in his lower body.
He didn't light the world on fire in summer league but he looked good enough I'm comfortable keeping him on a 2-way.

Kinda bummed no TJ but he didn't have a lot more to prove other than eliminating some of the sloppy turnovers.

Clark's shooting form looks pretty decent but I haven't seen anything from him in summer league to indicate he can be anything more than a catch and shoot player on offense.

Newton looks like a pretty good defender and pretty mediocre offensively and pretty limited to 2 guard.

[Slim Tubby]

It was nice to see Rob get aggressive in the 4th quarter I think that was the first time I've seen him trying more to assert his own will than afraid of screwing up since we drafted him and the results were good.

Maluach looked a little less slow and stiff that I thought he would. I don't think he's going to be anything special but he could carve out a long career as a defensive minded center.

Beringer can cover ground defensively though oh my word if he ever puts it all together he could be really really special on the defensive end.
Like better than Rudy special.

He seems to have good instincts but has a lot of bad technique right now that's going to lead to lots of fouling until he's more polished.
Especially against the more skilled players he will face in the regular season.
Struggles to get himself into good defensive rebounding position.
Also a ton to learn on offense but I don't cringe whenever he touches the ball like I do with Rudy which is a compliment.
He has sticky hands in traffic but he's really starting from square one offensively both from a skill and IQ perspective.
He's going to have a lot to learn.
How to read the ballhandler on the pick and roll and delay his dive to the basket if his teammate is going to drive.
How to read the defender to set up screens, when to rescreen, sealing off the help on drives etc.
He's got a really special frame + mobility + leaping ability skillset though.
I'm a lot more impressed and optimistic about his future after watching him in summer league than I was watching film of him pre-draft.

Leonard Miller seems to be a really good player in transition and undeniably terrible in the halfcourt.
His shot looks as broke as the day we drafted him.
Very hit or miss defensively but decent enough hunting defensive rebounds and putbacks.
Looks very much like a 12th roster spot player but hey we've got to have those guys too.

Rocco still looks like Bambi on skates. A lot like Jesse Edwards looked last summer.
Had a couple of really nice outlet passes that lead to layups in the 3rd game.
He's just not strong or quick enough right now.
Maybe a year and a half in a NBA quality training program can unlock all that potential because it's hard to be effective in this league without a solid base underneath you.

Jesse Edwards looks a lot less like a stiff this summer. Put on muscle since last summer, especially in his lower body.
He didn't light the world on fire in summer league but he looked good enough I'm comfortable keeping him on a 2-way.

Kinda bummed no TJ but he didn't have a lot more to prove other than eliminating some of the sloppy turnovers.

Clark's shooting form looks pretty decent but I haven't seen anything from him in summer league to indicate he can be anything more than a catch and shoot player on offense.

Newton looks like a pretty good defender and pretty mediocre offensively and pretty limited to 2 guard.

Good write-up...thanks for the read.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM Forums mobile app

[younggunsmn]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I think it's important to see players filling multiple roles. That's honestly part of why I think Finch has stuck with tighter rotations...the guys who have played more are able to fill multiple roles. That way if a play breaks down and guys are "out of position", they still know what to do from different spots on the floor.

When I spend my time categorizing players, I do so within the context of the "Horns" offense that is a Finch staple. There are different variations, but more or less, Horn revolves around a primary playmaker and a big man. From there, you have a secondary playmaker on one of the wings and the other two guys in each of the corners (or one in the dunker's spot).

Ant is going to be the primary or secondary playmaker on most possessions, unless things get off balance. The big men have to be able to switch responsibilities. But here's the thing....people talk about Mike or Rob being the "PG" when in actuality, there are many possessions over the course of a game where that player is the third or fourth player to touch the ball on that possession. The initial action is run for Ant and the big man. This could be a pick and roll, but the big man kicks it out to the corner. They might get an open shot or they'll swing the ball. THIS is where the secondary playmaker (be it Mike or Rob or anyone else) has to make the decision. And I think this is where Rob needed to learn most this offseason. Finch talked often about the ball getting stuck on one side of the ball. This is because a second swing pass wasn't made to the other side (where Ant or let's say Julius here) had relocated to after the initial action.

Now, I was talking about players filling multiple roles, right? Here's how I currently would break things down:
Ant: Anything but big man
Julius: Really can play anywhere imo
Rudy: Either big man
Jaden: I actually think he has the potential to play anywhere. Corner not ideal, nor is primary, however.
Naz: Anything but primary
Mike: Anything but big man
Rob: Anything but big man
TJ: Anything but big man
Donte: Anything but big man
Joan: Either big man
Jaylen: Probably just corners, but possibly secondary playmaker as well
Leonard: Either big man
Joe: In his hey-day, anything but big man

A couple of Finch's favorite guys who are no longer here, Kyle and Nickeil both had tons of offensive versatility within the system. This gives Finch the ability to mix and match lineups, because guys are not confined to just PG, SG, SF, PF, or C. This is also why I am less worried about PG.....it's about skill sets a player offers more than the position label.

I can't disagree more strongly with this post.
When you have Rudy and JB listed as being able to play either big man and Rob (one of the smallest guys in the league) as anything but big man you've completely lost the plot.

This kind of thinking is how you get smoked by 30 points by OKC.

Having skilled ballhandlers and shot creators is a must in this league.
There's no way around it and no offensive set you can draw up that's going to completely mitigate a lack of ballhandling skills.

We have two guys with primary ballhandler skills: Rob and Mike
and 2 guys who can do it in a pinch or run a pick and roll in the halfcourt: Ant and DDV
Julius can pass and facilitate out of the post, that doesnt make him a primary ballhandler.
You aren't using him to run a pick and roll.

There is still nothing that can tear up a defense like a highly skilled guard running a pick and roll with a skilled big.

Considering the huge gap in age between Mike and Rob it will be a huge mistake if we go into the season without adding another security blanket PG to the roster.

[KGdaBom]

I can't lump Dilly in with guys like Poole or Simons as they have never shown the passing upside that Dilly has shown already. Dillingham is obviously not a guy who can hit the ground running as a natural PG, but to me he has clear natural passing chops well beyond combo guard level. Some of the passes he makes are way ahead of guys like you're suggesting. That said, I don't think we actually need "the guy" to run and facilitate our offense.

I think we need to keep in mind that with Ant on the team we're really not ever likely to utilize the traditional PG skills of a young Chris Paul or Mike Conley type. Current version Conley is more of a caretaker PG who controls the game, can intiate a set when needed, and can thrive playing off of Ant. We need to improve our offense, but I don't think it has to be via adding a traditional PG because the ball is going to be in Ant's hands most of the time. What we need is a suped up version of what Conley currently is. A guy who can initiate the offense by getting Ant the ball in good sets and hit 3s or attack 2nd side playing off Ant. The flashes we've seen from Rob could fill that role well offensively if he learns to moderate his poor decisions.

100%, and if that's all the person is doing on offense they should be good to great defensively and in the miscellaneous categories. I disagree on the idea that we don't need a traditional point guard, as I look to some of the great scoring guards in history, not only could they isolate, they also had traditional facilitators getting them the ball in places that maximize their skill sets. While they didn't necessarily have elite offensive point guards, they did have solid starting traditional point guards. With the exception being the years that the bulls had Ron Harper essentially starting at point guard with Jordan and Pippin who both had the ability to initiate offense next to him.

Would you consider Mike Conley a traditional PG? Rob's assists/100 and Ast% from his rookie year at age 19 were nearly identical to Mike's career numbers. I'm not saying that assists are the sole indicator of being a "PG" but they do speak to a player having the inclination and role of setting up teammates for buckets. They're a marker for creating offense for the team and the initial results are that Rob does that on par with the expectation for a PG. Rob still has a ways to go as far as limiting mistakes and generally running an offense, but IMO Rob is much, much closer to a traditional PG than he is to the combo guards you listed.

Dilly is 100% true PG. He can score as well. If he can play passable defense and keep TOs low he'll be a great addition to our rotation.

[winforlose]

I do think there is big disconnect between fans who enjoy x's and O's, clean execution, good defense and fundamentally sound basketball and those that want fast paced, reckless, entertainment. Rob had a fun second half, it was good to see him cut loose a little, but I still didn't see anything that said I want him to run and facilitate our offense. In fact, he looked better when he could play more as a 2 guard then a point. Those of you who are critical of guys like Poole, Simons, Sexton, etc...any concern that may best suite Dilly too? If we win, I don't care how he plays, but I want a ring and that typically takes defense and execution on some level.

I think it's important to see players filling multiple roles. That's honestly part of why I think Finch has stuck with tighter rotations...the guys who have played more are able to fill multiple roles. That way if a play breaks down and guys are "out of position", they still know what to do from different spots on the floor.

When I spend my time categorizing players, I do so within the context of the "Horns" offense that is a Finch staple. There are different variations, but more or less, Horn revolves around a primary playmaker and a big man. From there, you have a secondary playmaker on one of the wings and the other two guys in each of the corners (or one in the dunker's spot).

Ant is going to be the primary or secondary playmaker on most possessions, unless things get off balance. The big men have to be able to switch responsibilities. But here's the thing....people talk about Mike or Rob being the "PG" when in actuality, there are many possessions over the course of a game where that player is the third or fourth player to touch the ball on that possession. The initial action is run for Ant and the big man. This could be a pick and roll, but the big man kicks it out to the corner. They might get an open shot or they'll swing the ball. THIS is where the secondary playmaker (be it Mike or Rob or anyone else) has to make the decision. And I think this is where Rob needed to learn most this offseason. Finch talked often about the ball getting stuck on one side of the ball. This is because a second swing pass wasn't made to the other side (where Ant or let's say Julius here) had relocated to after the initial action.

Now, I was talking about players filling multiple roles, right? Here's how I currently would break things down:
Ant: Anything but big man
Julius: Really can play anywhere imo
Rudy: Either big man
Jaden: I actually think he has the potential to play anywhere. Corner not ideal, nor is primary, however.
Naz: Anything but primary
Mike: Anything but big man
Rob: Anything but big man
TJ: Anything but big man
Donte: Anything but big man
Joan: Either big man
Jaylen: Probably just corners, but possibly secondary playmaker as well
Leonard: Either big man
Joe: In his hey-day, anything but big man

A couple of Finch's favorite guys who are no longer here, Kyle and Nickeil both had tons of offensive versatility within the system. This gives Finch the ability to mix and match lineups, because guys are not confined to just PG, SG, SF, PF, or C. This is also why I am less worried about PG.....it's about skill sets a player offers more than the position label.

I can't disagree more strongly with this post.
When you have Rudy and JB listed as being able to play either big man and Rob (one of the smallest guys in the league) as anything but big man you've completely lost the plot.

This kind of thinking is how you get smoked by 30 points by OKC.

Having skilled ballhandlers and shot creators is a must in this league.
There's no way around it and no offensive set you can draw up that's going to completely mitigate a lack of ballhandling skills.

We have two guys with primary ballhandler skills: Rob and Mike
and 2 guys who can do it in a pinch or run a pick and roll in the halfcourt: Ant and DDV
Julius can pass and facilitate out of the post, that doesnt make him a primary ballhandler.
You aren't using him to run a pick and roll.

There is still nothing that can tear up a defense like a highly skilled guard running a pick and roll with a skilled big.

Considering the huge gap in age between Mike and Rob it will be a huge mistake if we go into the season without adding another security blanket PG to the roster.

This ^. PG play matters, and to say Rob can play Af and Rudy can play PF is a questionable understanding of how the Fowards functions. If you miss that, and you miss the PG function it raises questions about the understanding of the rest of the offense, and how a structured approach can defeat good defense. Whereas a chaotic approach leads to what we saw against Dallas and OKC where structured defenses make Ant’s life hell, and the offense stalls out.

[Klomp]

I can't disagree more strongly with this post.
When you have Rudy and JB listed as being able to play either big man and Rob (one of the smallest guys in the league) as anything but big man you've completely lost the plot.

You've completely missed the point I was making.

It's not about positions. Playing Rob in the corner doesn't make him a SF any more than putting Randle as a playmaker makes him a PG. Stop being so close-minded about positions.

Is Rudy not able to be a screener at the top of the key? Is he not able to play from the dunker spot? Those are two different positions on the floor within Finch's Horns sets that Rudy is able to play.

[Klomp]

Julius can pass and facilitate out of the post, that doesnt make him a primary ballhandler.
You aren't using him to run a pick and roll.

What do you call this then?

Read on Twitter

[Klomp]

This ^. PG play matters, and to say Rob can play Af and Rudy can play PF is a questionable understanding of how the Fowards functions. If you miss that, and you miss the PG function it raises questions about the understanding of the rest of the offense, and how a structured approach can defeat good defense. Whereas a chaotic approach leads to what we saw against Dallas and OKC where structured defenses make Ant’s life hell, and the offense stalls out.

The difference is, I'm actually looking at what the actual team runs and basing my understanding of the offense around that. I'm not basing my understanding of the offense based on my understanding of how randoms on the internet would run the offense if they were in charge. Stay in fantasy land if you'd like, but I'm basing my takes on what has actually happened over the last 5 years of watching Chris Finch run this team.