RealGM 2025 Greatest Peaks Project #1 — 2013 LeBron James

[tone wone]

Lebron hurts his elbow against Chicago (MRI was negative), but he goes on to play unbelievably well in two of the first three games vs. Celtics. Then Boston starts bringing a third defender (Sheed or Big Baby) over more to zone the strong side. Suddenly, Lebron's elbow is supposedly flairing up again.

He hurt the elbow late in the regular season (slight strain and a bone bruise).

The better evidence for '09 playoffs being an unsustainable hot streak was that Lebron wasn't a good shooter in '08 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '08 playoffs. He wasn't a good shooter in '09 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '10 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '10 playoffs. He wasn't a good shooter in '11 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '11 playoffs. And it all culminated in Mavs basically breaking his brain by overtly daring him to shoot over a zone or get rid of the ball. He chose the latter.

This is all nice. The only time teams "zoned up" Lebron was series he lost apparently; except ORL. How can 2009 be a "hot streak" while shooting 3-17 (17%) from the 3 against Detroit in the 1st rd and 11-37 (30%) in the ECFs? So he was hot from mid-range? Ok. 44% from long-2 compared to just 40% in the regular season. Okay, that kinda explains it but those shots represented a smaller portion of his shot diet than in the regular season. So just how did Lebron up his scoring so much from the regular season? FREE THROWS! He took 14 a game in the playoffs with an obscene .64ftr. This would classify as a fluke since he really wouldn't approach these FT numbers again but he actually came closet a year earlier in 2008 with just under 13fta and a .61ftr.

Lebrons shooting spits that postseason are hardly abnormal. The scoring volume, maybe, but the splits aren't. .

'09 Playoffs: .510% 33% from 3 55efg% 61ts%
'10 Reg.Sea: .503% 33% from 3 54efg% 60ts%
'10 Playoffs: .502% 40% from 3 55efg% 60ts%

Jordan's assist numbers in the '91 playoffs are more of a fluke than this.

[Djoker]

Injuries are not an excuse. Whether Lebron underperformed in the 2010 ECSF because he hurt his elbow, or Delonte shagged his mom, or he already had his mind out of Cleveland, or he couldn't handle the Celtics' defense... or all of the above?!? The reason doesn't matter. The bottom line is he underperformed.

Because many people tend to ascribe actual flaws in Lebron's game prior to 2012 (ex. poor outside shooting, weak mentality), I think his fans think injury is the best excuse. "He was injured but man if he was healthy, watch out..."

[parapooper]

Lebron hurts his elbow against Chicago (MRI was negative), but he goes on to play unbelievably well in two of the first three games vs. Celtics. Then Boston starts bringing a third defender (Sheed or Big Baby) over more to zone the strong side. Suddenly, Lebron's elbow is supposedly flairing up again.

He hurt the elbow late in the regular season (slight strain and a bone bruise).

The better evidence for '09 playoffs being an unsustainable hot streak was that Lebron wasn't a good shooter in '08 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '08 playoffs. He wasn't a good shooter in '09 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '10 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '10 playoffs. He wasn't a good shooter in '11 regular season. He wasn't a good shooter in '11 playoffs. And it all culminated in Mavs basically breaking his brain by overtly daring him to shoot over a zone or get rid of the ball. He chose the latter.

This is all nice. The only time teams "zoned up" Lebron was series he lost apparently; except ORL. How can 2009 be a "hot streak" while shooting 3-17 (17%) from the 3 against Detroit in the 1st rd and 11-37 (30%) in the ECFs? So he was hot from mid-range? Ok. 44% from long-2 compared to just 40% in the regular season. Okay, that kinda explains it but those shots represented a smaller portion of his shot diet than in the regular season. So just how did Lebron up his scoring so much from the regular season? FREE THROWS! He took 14 a game in the playoffs with an obscene .64ftr. This would classify as a fluke since he really wouldn't approach these FT numbers again but he actually came closet a year earlier in 2008 with just under 13fta and a .61ftr.

Lebrons shooting spits that postseason are hardly abnormal. The scoring volume, maybe, but the splits aren't. .

'09 Playoffs: .510% 33% from 3 55efg% 61ts%
'10 Reg.Sea: .503% 33% from 3 54efg% 60ts%
'10 Playoffs: .502% 40% from 3 55efg% 60ts%

Jordan's assist numbers in the '91 playoffs are more of a fluke than this.

In the 2010 playoffs Lebron

with 1 day off:
25pts @45%eFG , BPM 6.2

with 2 days off:
35pts @63@eFG, BPM 18.4

while he has no such trend for the rest of his career - so that would indicate the elbow thing really was a problem and Lebron with a rested elbow in 2010 was even more insane than 2009 Lebron.

And against the Celtics he still had a BPM of +8.9 despite his elbow while holding Pierce to -1.9 (vs +5.2 the next 2 rounds) - that's arguably still better than putting up the best non-Lebron playoff numbers of all time while letting your counterpart play at his usual level.

[DQuinn1575]

This forum is crazy. I could agree Lebron career > Jordan career, but peak??? No way, no way that Lebron had better peak than Jordan.

Jordan's peak PO (91) numbers smach all Lebron seasons and he won championship in dominant fashion in 17 games.

Could you elaborate on this? Which stats smash all of LeBron's seasons?

The Bulls were heavy favorites during that run. Jordan dominated, but the Bulls were clearly more talented outside of the #1 player than any other teams were (outside of their #1 player as well).

Heavy favorites is laughable. The 91 Bulls were 700 odds, 4th pick, as defending champs they were only favored at 250.
For comparison sake, the 2011 Heat were 175, bigger favorites than 3 of Jordan's champ teams.

Clearly more talented outside of #1 ?
Obviously Pippen was a star, and arguably the best second star during most of the run, but

Every starting C was below average
Every starting PG other than Armstrong in 93 was below average, Armstrong was worse than 3 of the 4 PG they faced in playoffs.
Grant? definitely above average, but by all-nba voting 5,2,4 teams had a better 3rd player than him.

[ScrantonBulls]

This forum is crazy. I could agree Lebron career > Jordan career, but peak??? No way, no way that Lebron had better peak than Jordan.

Jordan's peak PO (91) numbers smach all Lebron seasons and he won championship in dominant fashion in 17 games.

Could you elaborate on this? Which stats smash all of LeBron's seasons?

The Bulls were heavy favorites during that run. Jordan dominated, but the Bulls were clearly more talented outside of the #1 player than any other teams were (outside of their #1 player as well).

Heavy favorites is laughable. The 91 Bulls were 700 odds, 4th pick, as defending champs they were only favored at 250.
For comparison sake, the 2011 Heat were 175, bigger favorites than 3 of Jordan's champ teams.

Clearly more talented outside of #1 ?
Obviously Pippen was a star, and arguably the best second star during most of the run, but

Every starting C was below average
Every starting PG other than Armstrong in 93 was below average, Armstrong was worse than 3 of the 4 PG they faced in playoffs.
Grant? definitely above average, but by all-nba voting 5,2,4 teams had a better 3rd player than him.

Lol you're looking at preseason odds? Those are complete garbage and would be silly to quote. I'm talking about the odds before the actual series.

[DQuinn1575]

Could you elaborate on this? Which stats smash all of LeBron's seasons?

The Bulls were heavy favorites during that run. Jordan dominated, but the Bulls were clearly more talented outside of the #1 player than any other teams were (outside of their #1 player as well).

Heavy favorites is laughable. The 91 Bulls were 700 odds, 4th pick, as defending champs they were only favored at 250.
For comparison sake, the 2011 Heat were 175, bigger favorites than 3 of Jordan's champ teams.

Clearly more talented outside of #1 ?
Obviously Pippen was a star, and arguably the best second star during most of the run, but

Every starting C was below average
Every starting PG other than Armstrong in 93 was below average, Armstrong was worse than 3 of the 4 PG they faced in playoffs.
Grant? definitely above average, but by all-nba voting 5,2,4 teams had a better 3rd player than him.

Lol you're looking at preseason odds? Those are complete garbage and would be silly to quote. I'm talking about the odds before the actual series.

lol odds before the actual series just tell you how well the 2 teams played during the season, team with better record and home court is favored probably 90%+ of the time.
It tells you virtually nothing more than the won-loss record
Preaseason odds tells you how good people thought the team was going into the year.
If they are complete garbage, then tell me how well you did versus the projected won-loss this past year.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

are we still doing the is 2009 real thing?

[O_6]

MJ and LeBron are the the best non-Centers by a mile.

LeBron was guarding Jokic in the Olympics as the oldest player in the league for America. 2011 MVP Rose ... 2024 SERBIA Legend Jokic... LeBron guarded both of them well, really well in Rose's case. Please understand how crazy this is.

His defensive versatility is 2nd to no one due to his weight and agility combo. 2nd in DPOY in '09 and '13... historic '16 defensive playoff run... freakish player. '09/'10 LeBron is probably the most impressive basketball athlete ever under 6'10". What he was doing in the open court at 260 doesn't make sense, sooo much speed plus power plus skills. His left leg needs to be studied.

'13 LeBron was the best version though. Just complete through and through, a warrior with unreal depth of skills. Not even MJ blows my mind in the "overall" way that '12/'13 LeBron does. MJ is a little more specific in terms of greatness as it's more about scoring (I know he was amazing all around). He makes 50 look easy.

I think LeBron fans who think '09 was the best version kind of miss the point. His ability to dominate such a huge load that year was impressive but his skillset wasn't near 'the Heat '13 Version. Any all-time team with other legends, you're choosing '13 LeBron over '09 LeBron to be on it. Because he's better. '09 LeBron was insane to watch with his quickness and put up great ball-dominant stats but '13 LeBron is something that shouldn't exist from a size/movement/skill standpoint. 270lb, top 5 fastest, so quick, strong as an ox, FT line leap ability, DPOY runner-up, passing is unreal.

And yet for a playoff series, I might take '16-'18 LeBron over any other version although that might be biased due to how the league was more offense friendly by then. Still, what '16 LeBron did to those Warriors was insane not only on offense but on defense. He was demolishing them on D, countless Curry blocks with the series culminating epic denial of Iggy.

'88-'92 MJ with '91 being the peak. Amazing ability to control games with his volume scoring offensive greatness + awesome athlete with plus D

'67 Wilt who took a step back from scoring and wrecked the league with unstoppable strength/size/defense/passing

'00 Shaq with his unreal strength and quickness. Shaq moving and exploding from the ground at that size was unfair

'74-'80 Kareem is amazing but '77 is when he had the best mix of it all in terms of athleticism + skills

'93/'94 Hakeem, '03 Duncan, '16/'17 Curry, '23 Jokic are up there too imo.

I might've gone '91 MJ over '13 LeBron just because I trust MJ's offense a tiny bit more overall with good defense but it's close, like I said LeBron is a one of one human swiss army knife but MJ ascended to another level as an offensive juggernaut.

I see Kareem was voted with the 2nd highest peak, he's great and it's not crazy but I don't agree with that. Wilt in '67 and Shaq in '00 were better imo. Duncan in 2003 is probably better than any single Kareem season. Hakeem in '94 is close.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I don’t agree with LeBron being the #1 peak, but don’t really have an issue with it, but I really can’t get on board with 2013 being his peak season at all. It doesn’t pass the eye test or the raw numbers and dominance test for me at all. The playoff run had some serious heroics, but it’s a pretty shaky run for the Heat vs not even near historically great competition. His finals was pretty pedestrian by his standards, and it went as long as it did because of his struggles to adjust early in the series. This one is a reach to me, even if the advanced stats over 82 games + the playoffs say it’s his best.

It's because he won a ring that season and his actually peak season(2009) he didn't. Only way people could justify his peak being over guys like MJ, Shaq, Kareem.

I don't remember many here 10 years ago, thinking 2013 was his peak.

[homecourtloss]

I don’t agree with LeBron being the #1 peak, but don’t really have an issue with it, but I really can’t get on board with 2013 being his peak season at all. It doesn’t pass the eye test or the raw numbers and dominance test for me at all. The playoff run had some serious heroics, but it’s a pretty shaky run for the Heat vs not even near historically great competition. His finals was pretty pedestrian by his standards, and it went as long as it did because of his struggles to adjust early in the series. This one is a reach to me, even if the advanced stats over 82 games + the playoffs say it’s his best.

It's because he won a ring that season and his actually peak season(2009) he didn't. Only way people could justify his peak being over guys like MJ, Shaq, Kareem.

I don't remember many here 10 years ago, thinking 2013 was his peak.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1827139

2013 was voted his peak in the 2022, 2019, and 2015 peaks’ projects.

[therealbig3]

2013 has pretty unanimously been considered LeBron's peak until his second stint with the Cavs, honestly. I personally would take 2016-2017 LeBron as his peak, since he could still play dominant defense when needed while just being an overall unstoppable force offensively.

2009 LeBron put up video game numbers, and it's true, it's perfectly reasonable to take that version as his peak. But I also don't think he could attack defenses the same way as later version of LeBron, wasn't as reliable of a shooter, didn't have the same mastery in the post, wasn't the same level passer/decision-maker...he was an above average shooter, with above average passing, combined with all-time level physical dominance. And that lends itself to looking more dominant against certain defenses...but less dominant against other types of defenses. For example, the 2009 Magic, for as good as they were defensively, got torched by perimeter stars all year. James was by all accounts, actually playing even better in 2010 compared to 2009, until he ran into the Celtics...who forced him into a bad series in 2008 as well. 2009 LeBron may have looked as dominant as he did because he didn't play the KG-led Celtics that year.

I don't think there's a defense around, ever, that could slow down 2016-2017 LeBron, and I think a lot of his "struggles" in 2013 was honestly because of Wade's decline as a player...his splits with Wade on and off show LeBron basically being his all time great self with Wade on the bench. The Spurs recognized that Wade was essentially a liability at that point and made life miserable with them both on the court. I think LeBron overall was a better shooter, passer, decision-maker, and off-ball player in 2013 and especially 2016-2017. I think his defense was overall just as good if not better given, again, a much higher defensive IQ at that point, essentially being a mini-KG by then. I think 2009 LeBron was a more physically dominant force, but I don't think that's as sustainable against high level defenses in the playoffs as someone who's still reasonably close as an athlete but with much more smarts. Kind of like how I would take 06-09 Kobe over earlier versions as well. Why 90-92 Jordan was better than 88 Jordan as well. It's not so much winning bias, as those guys didn't win in all of those years either. But they were just smarter and harder to stop than the younger, more explosive athlete versions of themselves, even if the younger versions of them would have looked more dominant against certain defenses.

[capfan33]

I don’t agree with LeBron being the #1 peak, but don’t really have an issue with it, but I really can’t get on board with 2013 being his peak season at all. It doesn’t pass the eye test or the raw numbers and dominance test for me at all. The playoff run had some serious heroics, but it’s a pretty shaky run for the Heat vs not even near historically great competition. His finals was pretty pedestrian by his standards, and it went as long as it did because of his struggles to adjust early in the series. This one is a reach to me, even if the advanced stats over 82 games + the playoffs say it’s his best.

It's because he won a ring that season and his actually peak season(2009) he didn't. Only way people could justify his peak being over guys like MJ, Shaq, Kareem.

I don't remember many here 10 years ago, thinking 2013 was his peak.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1827139

2013 was voted his peak in the 2022, 2019, and 2015 peaks’ projects.

Also both of Kareems peak seasons were non-title seasons so that's a moot point. And lots of people have 89 or 90 as MJs peak.

[NO-KG-AI]

2013 has pretty unanimously been considered LeBron's peak until his second stint with the Cavs, honestly. I personally would take 2016-2017 LeBron as his peak, since he could still play dominant defense when needed while just being an overall unstoppable force offensively.

2009 LeBron put up video game numbers, and it's true, it's perfectly reasonable to take that version as his peak. But I also don't think he could attack defenses the same way as later version of LeBron, wasn't as reliable of a shooter, didn't have the same mastery in the post, wasn't the same level passer/decision-maker...he was an above average shooter, with above average passing, combined with all-time level physical dominance. And that lends itself to looking more dominant against certain defenses...but less dominant against other types of defenses. For example, the 2009 Magic, for as good as they were defensively, got torched by perimeter stars all year. James was by all accounts, actually playing even better in 2010 compared to 2009, until he ran into the Celtics...who forced him into a bad series in 2008 as well. 2009 LeBron may have looked as dominant as he did because he didn't play the KG-led Celtics that year.

I don't think there's a defense around, ever, that could slow down 2016-2017 LeBron, and I think a lot of his "struggles" in 2013 was honestly because of Wade's decline as a player...his splits with Wade on and off show LeBron basically being his all time great self with Wade on the bench. The Spurs recognized that Wade was essentially a liability at that point and made life miserable with them both on the court. I think LeBron overall was a better shooter, passer, decision-maker, and off-ball player in 2013 and especially 2016-2017. I think his defense was overall just as good if not better given, again, a much higher defensive IQ at that point, essentially being a mini-KG by then. I think 2009 LeBron was a more physically dominant force, but I don't think that's as sustainable against high level defenses in the playoffs as someone who's still reasonably close as an athlete but with much more smarts. Kind of like how I would take 06-09 Kobe over earlier versions as well. Why 90-92 Jordan was better than 88 Jordan as well. It's not so much winning bias, as those guys didn't win in all of those years either. But they were just smarter and harder to stop than the younger, more explosive athlete versions of themselves, even if the younger versions of them would have looked more dominant against certain defenses.

I agree with this 100%. LeBron was stronger and more explosive in Miami as well. But they lost a title because of his inability to dissect and attack certain defenses, and they were a shot or two away from blowing it at his “peak” in 2013 because of how poorly he started that series. The Spurs were basically daring him to shoot, and it took him a while to really figure it out.

Second stint Cavs LeBron, IMO, would have obliterated the Spurs if they attempted to guard him in the manner they did in 2013.

I just think the bigger, more physically strong Miami version was also stiffer and more rigid in ways like yoy described. He was way more capable of just physically annihilating teams that couldn’t withstand the onslaught, but also not as fluid, decisive, or versatile in the halfcourt as he was in 2015 and beyond.