Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[Psubs]

BI is basically a shorter KD. Less lanky so a bit less STOCKS.

[Los_29]

I didn't have a problem with the Raptors acquiring BI at the price they did but I do have a problem with the contract they gave BI when only Brooklyn had cap room - same thing with the IQ extension, bidding against themselves - If Bobby Webster is the cap guy and in charge of contracts then I don't want him to be the President of the team.

A couple of other teams were interested and were willing to pay him something similar. BI would’ve got his money whether it was here or elsewhere. It’s not a long-term commitment.

[OakleyDokely]

Ingram's the 36th highest paid player this year. He's the 17th highest paid forward.

highest paid F's this year (#11-20):

11. Sabonis - 42M
12. OG - 39M
13. Zion - 39M
14. Barnes - 38M
15. Wagner - 38M
16. Porter Jr - 38M
17. Ingram - 38M
18. JJJ - 35M
19. K Middleton - 33M
20. J Grant - 32M

The top 10 are KD, Giannis, Butler, Tatum, Brown, Lebron, Kawhi, Markannen, Mobley, Siakam (they all make between 45M-55M).

Looks like he's in the right pay tier to me.

[tsherkin]

Ingram is also considerably bigger, which helps with shooting over NBA defenders and defending in general.

DD is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan, Ingram is 6'8-6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan.

It helps, but there's skill underpinning the size which enables BI to do what he does. It just reinforces the large differences between the two.

and with a 7'3 Wingspan. DeMar would have been a top5 player with that kind of Wingspan.

*doubt*

I do not believe that DeRozan's wingspan was the issue, or at least not a primary impediment. Obviously, BI's size helps him a lot, but DDR was a +3" wingspan guy, which was more than enough for him to have done better than he did. His issues had more to do with how long it took him to develop a reasonable handle, his lack of elite physical tools (not just size, but burst) and his inability to develop strong pull-up game. And how long it took him to develop as a playmaker.

There's basically a 0% chance he would have been a top-5 guy just because he had longer arms.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

https://www.tsn.ca/nba/josh-lewenberg-search-for-new-raptors-president-is-underway-but-best-candidate-could-be-in-house-1.2335939

This makes me feel a little better about Bobby given this context.

Yall really dont know basketball. BI is probably the only one who actually can play on our team.

There's levels and no one on our team is on his level

All the best players in the world will say the same.

Yeah this actually reflects negatively on Webster. This was a no brainer of a deal. Raptors have to be aggressive in trades and drafts because we are not a major free agency player. Webster always came off a bit passive to me. Let’s hope I am wrong

[YogurtProducer]

Ingram is also considerably bigger, which helps with shooting over NBA defenders and defending in general.

DD is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan, Ingram is 6'8-6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan.

It helps, but there's skill underpinning the size which enables BI to do what he does. It just reinforces the large differences between the two.

and with a 7'3 Wingspan. DeMar would have been a top5 player with that kind of Wingspan.

*doubt*

I do not believe that DeRozan's wingspan was the issue, or at least not a primary impediment. Obviously, BI's size helps him a lot, but DDR was a +3" wingspan guy, which was more than enough for him to have done better than he did. His issues had more to do with how long it took him to develop a reasonable handle, his lack of elite physical tools (not just size, but burst) and his inability to develop strong pull-up game. And how long it took him to develop as a playmaker.

There's basically a 0% chance he would have been a top-5 guy just because he had longer arms.

I mean Demar with a 7'3" wingspan would have been able to shoot over anyone. He already takes ridiculously hard shots and makes a decent #. His #'s woudl skyrocket with an extra half foot of clearance.

Not to mention his defense would be much better with the extra length.

People wouldn't care about wingspan if an extra 6 inches didn't do anything.

[djsunyc]

everyone get their takes in now. the proof will be in the pudding in a few months.

[Duffman100]

everyone get their takes in now. the proof will be in the pudding in a few months.

Yup. Honestly I could see this going various ways.

He's injured for most of the contract and we hate life.
He plays but he's a bit reduced in impact.
He plays well and is a breath of fresh air for our offense.

Much like Poeltl, I didn't love the move. But I can see ways it works out.

[LoveMyRaps]

everyone get their takes in now. the proof will be in the pudding in a few months.

All-Star berth
Plays 65+ games
Leads us to the conference finals
All-NBA 3rd Team

[JB7]

Ingram's the 36th highest paid player this year. He's the 17th highest paid forward.

highest paid F's this year (#11-20):

11. Sabonis - 42M
12. OG - 39M
13. Zion - 39M
14. Barnes - 38M
15. Wagner - 38M
16. Porter Jr - 38M
17. Ingram - 38M
18. JJJ - 35M
19. K Middleton - 33M
20. J Grant - 32M

The top 10 are KD, Giannis, Butler, Tatum, Brown, Lebron, Kawhi, Markannen, Mobley, Siakam (they all make between 45M-55M).

Looks like he's in the right pay tier to me.

And that $35M for JJJ is the last year of his current deal, I believe. His extension gets into the $50M range starting the following season.

[ash_k]

Ingram is also considerably bigger, which helps with shooting over NBA defenders and defending in general.

DD is 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan, Ingram is 6'8-6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan.

It helps, but there's skill underpinning the size which enables BI to do what he does. It just reinforces the large differences between the two.

and with a 7'3 Wingspan. DeMar would have been a top5 player with that kind of Wingspan.

*doubt*

I do not believe that DeRozan's wingspan was the issue, or at least not a primary impediment. Obviously, BI's size helps him a lot, but DDR was a +3" wingspan guy, which was more than enough for him to have done better than he did. His issues had more to do with how long it took him to develop a reasonable handle, his lack of elite physical tools (not just size, but burst) and his inability to develop strong pull-up game. And how long it took him to develop as a playmaker.

There's basically a 0% chance he would have been a top-5 guy just because he had longer arms.

cmon, of course it would make a huge difference. He would be a totally different problem to deal with, impacting all aspects of one's game.

Which is another reason why I am so excited about having both Ingram and Scottie with both having 7'2+ Wingspan! Defensively with their agility, it looks like an elite combination on paper.

[OakleyDokely]

Ingram's the 36th highest paid player this year. He's the 17th highest paid forward.

highest paid F's this year (#11-20):

11. Sabonis - 42M
12. OG - 39M
13. Zion - 39M
14. Barnes - 38M
15. Wagner - 38M
16. Porter Jr - 38M
17. Ingram - 38M
18. JJJ - 35M
19. K Middleton - 33M
20. J Grant - 32M

The top 10 are KD, Giannis, Butler, Tatum, Brown, Lebron, Kawhi, Markannen, Mobley, Siakam (they all make between 45M-55M).

Looks like he's in the right pay tier to me.

And that $35M for JJJ is the last year of his current deal, I believe. His extension gets into the $50M range starting the following season.

yup, he will be at 46/50/52/55 starting next year

[tsherkin]

I mean Demar with a 7'3" wingspan would have been able to shoot over anyone. He already takes ridiculously hard shots and makes a decent #. His #'s woudl skyrocket with an extra half foot of clearance.

I don't believe so, to be honest. Demar's problem was never really about getting shots off. It was about where he took them from and how he generated them. And his willingness to bomb from 20+ feet too regularly in particular. His wingspan wouldn't change his ability to get past people.

Not to mention his defense would be much better with the extra length.

Doubt. His effort level and instincts were too weak for me to believe it would change much.

People wouldn't care about wingspan if an extra 6 inches didn't do anything.

You still have to actually use it properly. Even Ingram isn't a particularly good defender with all that height and reach.

cmon, of course it would make a huge difference. He would be a totally different problem to deal with, impacting all aspects of one's game.

Again, doubt. Demar wasn't a particularly intuitive player and was fairly easy to force into bad habits offensively... plus, he was sloppy and poor from a base proficiency perspective on defense. He could have been a much better defender without changing his physical tools at all, he just... wasn't.

Which is another reason why I am so excited about having both Ingram and Scottie with both having 7'2+ Wingspan! Defensively with their agility, it looks like an elite combination on paper.[/quote]

I am interested in our defensive potential, yes. I don't think I'm going to expect TOO much defensively from Ingram, but CMB is another guy with great reach and he does have the instincts and effort level right now. And I think that if we can get BI slowing guys down or shading them enough to move them into the help, then that should be quite useful.

[OakleyDokely]

45-60M = all-star
35-45M = borderline allstar / very good starter
25-35M = good starter
15-25M = average starter / very good bench
5-15M = rotation player
<5M = depth player

[causal_fan]

According to multiple sources, Ujiri was the “driving force” behind the Brandon Ingram deal at last February’s trade deadline, while others in the room were less convinced about the fit and the timing. To just assume that Webster would pick up where Ujiri left off might be misguided. They could use a fresh perspective after missing the playoffs in four of the past five seasons, but they don’t necessarily need to look outside of the organization for that. The grass isn’t always greener.

https://www.tsn.ca/nba/josh-lewenberg-search-for-new-raptors-president-is-underway-but-best-candidate-could-be-in-house-1.2335939

That's a point in Bobby/Dan's favour for me. I don't think BI is a good fit nor do I think it was it the right time to make that type of trade.

I'm very skeptical - Happens all the time - The guy who wants the Job (Bobby) is spinning that he's different than the guy who just got sacked.

[ash_k]

45-60M = all-star
35-45M = borderline allstar / very good starter
25-35M = good starter
15-25M = average starter / very good bench
5-15M = rotation player
<5M = depth player

Then thanks Masai for saving us $$$ with our 2 All-Stars at 38M each

[tsherkin]

45-60M = all-star
35-45M = borderline allstar / very good starter
25-35M = good starter
15-25M = average starter / very good bench
5-15M = rotation player
<5M = depth player

Then thanks Masai for saving us $$$ with our 2 All-Stars at 38M each

Mmmm. We'll see how it goes in terms of actual performance. Scottie didn't really deserve his All-Star selection and BI needs to be healthy enough to garner votes over the first half. And if he has to be unhealthy for a half, I'd rather it be the first than the second...

[billy_hoyle]

45-60M = all-star
35-45M = borderline allstar / very good starter
25-35M = good starter
15-25M = average starter / very good bench
5-15M = rotation player
<5M = depth player

Then thanks Masai for saving us $$$ with our 2 All-Stars at 38M each

Mmmm. We'll see how it goes in terms of actual performance. Scottie didn't really deserve his All-Star selection and BI needs to be healthy enough to garner votes over the first half. And if he has to be unhealthy for a half, I'd rather it be the first than the second...

Hater

[tsherkin]

Then thanks Masai for saving us $$$ with our 2 All-Stars at 38M each

Mmmm. We'll see how it goes in terms of actual performance. Scottie didn't really deserve his All-Star selection and BI needs to be healthy enough to garner votes over the first half. And if he has to be unhealthy for a half, I'd rather it be the first than the second...

Hater

Deep, man. Real deep.

I'm excited for BI, but until he actually plays enough games to be considered healthy for the first time since his rookie season, it's always going to be a concern. I will be happy with 60+ games. I will be thrilled with 65+. But I am prepared for < 60 because probability and extended trends are a thing.

With Scottie... I'm hopeful that we let him do what he's good at and stop asking him to do what he is bad at. Dude isn't a scorer. He wasn't before he hit the NBA, he hasn't been good at it in the NBA (and indeed, has been awful at it in half of his career to date), but he has plenty to offer this team besides that... so we should get out of his way with this scoring volume nonsense and let the other guys we have handle that.

That's all.

[brownbobcat]

45-60M = all-star
35-45M = borderline allstar / very good starter
25-35M = good starter
15-25M = average starter / very good bench
5-15M = rotation player
<5M = depth player

My main problem with this is that they're paying near the top for the tier 2/3 guys, and have zero tier 1 players.