Pelicans extend Herb Jones 3yr/$68M

[Scalabrine]

If fully healthy, lineup would likely be:

PG- Murray/ Fears/ Jose
SG- Herb/ Poole/ Hawkins
SF- Murphy/ Bey/ Peavy
PF- Zion/ Queen/ Matkovic
C- Missi/ Looney/ Dickinson

And that’s a very very strong roster. Calling that anything close to bottom five in the league is absurd. Now “healthy roster” is not something we are familiar with soooo.

In the sports phrase dictionary they'd put this lineup as the example for "team is less than the sum of its parts". Not a good mix of players at all. Bottom 5 probably harsh at first glance but not much better.

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars.

[Jon1798]

Look, I think your top five plus Dallas are better IMO. That’s six teams and that’s not a great place to be. I don’t think the same for GS and LAL, which I am sure their fans will disagree and that’s fine. Zion and Trey are all star level players. And Herb is the best on ball defender in the league. You didn’t mention Jeremiah Fears, and I think Murray and Poole are really good players. End of the day, IF Zion is healthy, we have Zion and other teams don’t. I don’t think many of the teams we are discussing can stop him head to head. Not the Lakers, not GSW, not the Kings, not the Suns, etc. So we’ll see. Would be nice if for once other teams lost their top nine players and not us.

[Invictus88]

If fully healthy, lineup would likely be:

PG- Murray/ Fears/ Jose
SG- Herb/ Poole/ Hawkins
SF- Murphy/ Bey/ Peavy
PF- Zion/ Queen/ Matkovic
C- Missi/ Looney/ Dickinson

And that’s a very very strong roster. Calling that anything close to bottom five in the league is absurd. Now “healthy roster” is not something we are familiar with soooo.

In the sports phrase dictionary they'd put this lineup as the example for "team is less than the sum of its parts". Not a good mix of players at all. Bottom 5 probably harsh at first glance but not much better.

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars for an entire season.

Fixed

[Scalabrine]

In the sports phrase dictionary they'd put this lineup as the example for "team is less than the sum of its parts". Not a good mix of players at all. Bottom 5 probably harsh at first glance but not much better.

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars for an entire season.

Fixed

I think both players would need to take steps to really be considered All-Stars BEYOND just being healthy.

Murphy was the guy taking the shots last year, but he did it on "meh" efficiency and didn't really do a lot defensively. He needs to start getting to the line more, and being more of a facilitator.

Zion, the main issue is obviously health, but he has some other major flaws as well. He's a bad defender. He's a one dimensional below-the rim scorer and he's a mediocre rebounder for being a guy that needs to be so close to the rim.

Last years All-Stars:
Jokic/Wemby/Sengun
Durant/JJJ/Davis
LeBron/JWill
SGA/Edwards
Curry/Harden/Kyrie

That doesn't include Luka, Booker, Morant, Butler, Kawhi, Sabonis, Fox, Randle who have all been regular All-Stars. Neither of those guys are better, right now, then any of that list of 20 or so guys and that doesnt even include other young, up and coming stars that could make a leap too.

[Jon1798]

Zion’s already been an all star. He’s actually a very good defender when in shape, terrible when not. Last year he came back in probably the best shape of his career, and with a per 36 of: 31 pts, 9.1 rebounds and 6.7 assists. IF healthy and in shape, he’s not just an all star but one of the very best.

Trey is coming. He is an elite elite shooter, slam dunk contestant, and a chance to now start with much more usage. He has taken a huge leap in regards to ball handling and finishing. He’s also gotten much bigger.

His efficiency hasn’t been nearly where most believe it will be, partially because of different injuries he’s had, partially because this team was a mess. Murray got hurt opening night. Herb in game four. Zion played 6 of the first 36.

Two seasons ago he was 40.6% from three and 65% true shooting. And if you watch him enough, you know that’s more the type of player he is. Not the guy who’s shot was off coming from a knee injury, or dealing with a bad shoulder, or playing with no PG on the team, etc. He’s a great player.

[NO-KG-AI]

Cj bad defender
Herb great defender
Ingram bad defender
Zion bad defender
Jonas bad defender

That’s the realGM consensus and yet that was a top ranked defense. Either the perception is off on soem guys, or Herb is an all timer in ways that people aren’t recognizing

Poole is not a worse defender than CJ, and he’s taller, younger. Missi and Murphy are much more athletic and engaged defensively than Ingram and Jonas. Herb is herb

Sell me on why I should be more out on this unit defensicely than the won that won 49 games with a great D.

[Jon1798]

Cj bad defender
Herb great defender
Ingram bad defender
Zion bad defender
Jonas bad defender

That’s the realGM consensus and yet that was a top ranked defense. Either the perception is off on soem guys, or Herb is an all timer in ways that people aren’t recognizing

Poole is not a worse defender than CJ, and he’s taller, younger. Missi and Murphy are much more athletic and engaged defensively than Ingram and Jonas. Herb is herb

Sell me on why I should be more out on this unit defensicely than the won that won 49 games with a great D.

I think Jonas’ rebounding was huge on those teams, and the bench with Jose, Dyson, Naji, Murphy and Nance helped boost those teams. For similar reasons, I’m curious to see how Looney can help as he should be a smart defender that rebounds. I fully expect Murray to play a bunch this year, and him compared to CJ defensively isn’t a fair fight.

If healthy (yes again), they will defend well in non Queen minutes lol. They will have to figure out the best ways to attack the teams that sit their center in the paint not worried about Missi and Looney. But I think Murphy and Poole can light those sets up using off ball center screens. We shall see.

[Dan Z]

If fully healthy, lineup would likely be:

PG- Murray/ Fears/ Jose
SG- Herb/ Poole/ Hawkins
SF- Murphy/ Bey/ Peavy
PF- Zion/ Queen/ Matkovic
C- Missi/ Looney/ Dickinson

And that’s a very very strong roster. Calling that anything close to bottom five in the league is absurd. Now “healthy roster” is not something we are familiar with soooo.

In the sports phrase dictionary they'd put this lineup as the example for "team is less than the sum of its parts". Not a good mix of players at all. Bottom 5 probably harsh at first glance but not much better.

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars.

When is Murray suppose to come back? Even when he does it'll take time for him to shake off any rust.

In the meanwhile who is their starting point guard? Alvarado? Fears?

Every year there are a few teams who are a surprise, but I just don't see it with New Orleans. I wish the Bulls had taken the draft day trade.

[Jon1798]

In the sports phrase dictionary they'd put this lineup as the example for "team is less than the sum of its parts". Not a good mix of players at all. Bottom 5 probably harsh at first glance but not much better.

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars.

When is Murray suppose to come back? Even when he does it'll take time for him to shake off any rust.

In the meanwhile who is their starting point guard? Alvarado? Fears?

Every year there are a few teams who are a surprise, but I just don't see it with New Orleans. I wish the Bulls had taken the draft day trade.

Poole is most likely to start, along side Herb, Trey, Zion and either Missi or Looney. Murray is likely back by the back half of December. Will see a lot of point Zion. Fears will come off the bench and not sure how they handle Jose at this point. Which is crazy since he’s been one of our most impactful players since he came here.

[Dan Z]

Yeah I agree, just not seeing it.

Murray isn't gonna be the same player right off the bat, if at all. Alvarado is cool but not a starter.

Murphy was awesome last year, but can it translate with winning basketball if he's THE guy? Or even the 2nd guy?

Herb, great role player and glue guy, but is he more than your 4th or 5th starter?

I know they got blasted for the Queen trade and I actually really like him as a player BUT how does he fit here? Are him and Zion playing together?

What version of Jordan Poole are they getting?

Overall the team just doesnt have enough shooting even if all players are firing on all cylinders and healthy.

I got
1. OKC
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Minny
5. Clippers
6. Lakers
7. Warriors

All definitely ahead of them.

8. Memphis
9. Dallas
10. Spurs

SHOULD all be better.

Then theyre in the next tier with Portland and the Kings as teams that could surprise people if everything clicks right.

It's really hard for me to figure out how they get above that unless Zion and Murphy are both All-Stars.

When is Murray suppose to come back? Even when he does it'll take time for him to shake off any rust.

In the meanwhile who is their starting point guard? Alvarado? Fears?

Every year there are a few teams who are a surprise, but I just don't see it with New Orleans. I wish the Bulls had taken the draft day trade.

Poole is most likely to start, along side Herb, Trey, Zion and either Missi or Looney. Murray is likely back by the back half of December. Will see a lot of point Zion. Fears will come off the bench and not sure how they handle Jose at this point. Which is crazy since he’s been one of our most impactful players since he came here.

The Pelicans aren't going to have a regular point guard? They'll use Zion for that? That might work at times, but overall it might be an issue.

I'd be surprised if Murray comes back that soon, but who knows. The team might be a surprise, but right now I wouldn't bet on it.

[Jon1798]

When is Murray suppose to come back? Even when he does it'll take time for him to shake off any rust.

In the meanwhile who is their starting point guard? Alvarado? Fears?

Every year there are a few teams who are a surprise, but I just don't see it with New Orleans. I wish the Bulls had taken the draft day trade.

Poole is most likely to start, along side Herb, Trey, Zion and either Missi or Looney. Murray is likely back by the back half of December. Will see a lot of point Zion. Fears will come off the bench and not sure how they handle Jose at this point. Which is crazy since he’s been one of our most impactful players since he came here.

The Pelicans aren't going to have a regular point guard? They'll use Zion for that? That might work at times, but overall it might be an issue.

I'd be surprised if Murray comes back that soon, but who knows. The team might be a surprise, but right now I wouldn't bet on it.

We won 49 games just two seasons ago with CJ and playing point Zion. Other than one season of Rondo, we haven’t had a real PG since CP3. Not that I recommend it.

[NO-KG-AI]

When is Murray suppose to come back? Even when he does it'll take time for him to shake off any rust.

In the meanwhile who is their starting point guard? Alvarado? Fears?

Every year there are a few teams who are a surprise, but I just don't see it with New Orleans. I wish the Bulls had taken the draft day trade.

Poole is most likely to start, along side Herb, Trey, Zion and either Missi or Looney. Murray is likely back by the back half of December. Will see a lot of point Zion. Fears will come off the bench and not sure how they handle Jose at this point. Which is crazy since he’s been one of our most impactful players since he came here.

The Pelicans aren't going to have a regular point guard? They'll use Zion for that? That might work at times, but overall it might be an issue.

I'd be surprised if Murray comes back that soon, but who knows. The team might be a surprise, but right now I wouldn't bet on it.

We haven’t had a real PG in years. It’s definitely effected us in close games, and leads to points where we need a floor general to help clean things up. It’s definitely an issue. Zion has improved yearly as a playmaker, but he’s not a true PG. It’s an issue that Fears was taken to eventually correct, but it could be years.

I do think Poole has a little more juice as a passer and penetrator than CJ does, but he’s still not a natural fit in the role either.

Trey will get a lot of on ball stuff after last year, and Zion will be the main ballhandler when he’s out there. Zion is so dominant it makes the offense pretty simple, but he’s the biggest if.

No true PG, but everybody in the rotation that will really touch the ball are pretty good passers at the position. I do think our ball handling and creativity has improved a lot from the last few rosters, but it could be chaotic if the coaching staff can’t harness it.

[Dan Z]

Poole is most likely to start, along side Herb, Trey, Zion and either Missi or Looney. Murray is likely back by the back half of December. Will see a lot of point Zion. Fears will come off the bench and not sure how they handle Jose at this point. Which is crazy since he’s been one of our most impactful players since he came here.

The Pelicans aren't going to have a regular point guard? They'll use Zion for that? That might work at times, but overall it might be an issue.

I'd be surprised if Murray comes back that soon, but who knows. The team might be a surprise, but right now I wouldn't bet on it.

We won 49 games just two seasons ago with CJ and playing point Zion. Other than one season of Rondo, we haven’t had a real PG since CP3. Not that I recommend it.

That was two years ago and that year the Pelicans finished in 8th place ahead of the Kings, Warriors, Rockets, Jazz, Grizzlies, Spurs and Trailblazers.

I bet the Rockets and Warriors will be better this year. Spurs, Trailblazers and Grizzlies...it's debatable. I don't trust the Kings and the Jazz are probably tanking again.

As for the teams that finished ahead of the Pelicans...maybe the Suns drop? The rest will probably be better.

[lordjeff05]

This team has more shooting than the team that won 49 games in 23/24. People are making the mistake of slotting Murray into the starting lineup when he is returning by January at best, and likely not at all.

The starters will be Poole, Herb, Murphy, Z and either Missi or Looney. Trey Murphy has been top 10 in catch and shoot 3 point attempts per year for the last two years and Poole shoots as many of them as CJ. Clearing away Ingram solidifies the pecking order and opens up the floor. Biggest question marks for me are not our rookies but our other young guys. If Missi shows defensive improvement and Hawk holds his own then we should be fine.

if Murray isn't playing at all then clearly the biggest problem is a real point guard. You mention both Murphy and Poole as catch and shoot guys, but who is going to feed them the ball in those spots? You just don't really see teams without a real floor general rack up a ton of wins. Is Zion the point forward? I guess I don't hate that...What happens the other 40 games though?

I have no idea what Jeff is talking about out. Murray is ahead of schedule and was injured last January.

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46[/x]

Im just super skeptical about achilles timelines and point guard minutes can be handled by Poole, Jose and Fears. I know Poole isnt a real point but with Zion Im not convinced we need one. Its one thing to play DJM if we dont have other options but if we do, then Im not convinced we will play him just because even if he isnt all the way back.

[lordjeff05]

First of all that roster will never be fully healthy. Second of all, this team has no shooting, will be soft on the interior and doesn’t exactly scream great fit with the spacing and guys who are best with the ball in their hands.

This team has more shooting than the team that won 49 games in 23/24. People are making the mistake of slotting Murray into the starting lineup when he is returning by January at best, and likely not at all.

The starters will be Poole, Herb, Murphy, Z and either Missi or Looney. Trey Murphy has been top 10 in catch and shoot 3 point attempts per year for the last two years and Poole shoots as many of them as CJ. Clearing away Ingram solidifies the pecking order and opens up the floor. Biggest question marks for me are not our rookies but our other young guys. If Missi shows defensive improvement and Hawk holds his own then we should be fine.

if Murray isn't playing at all then clearly the biggest problem is a real point guard. You mention both Murphy and Poole as catch and shoot guys, but who is going to feed them the ball in those spots? You just don't really see teams without a real floor general rack up a ton of wins. Is Zion the point forward? I guess I don't hate that...What happens the other 40 games though?

The offense is most powerful when the ball is in Zion's hands with the court spread. That's really always been the case but it was harder to do with Ingram playing because it didn't mesh well with his game. Poole and Herb are more than adequate at bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets. (Herb is an underrated ball handler but he's low usage so people don't notice). I push back on the assessment about floor generals. True point guards really don't exist anymore. SGA, the Boston guards, Steph, none of those guys are true point guards.

When Zion isn't playing the ball handling will the team will lean on Poole and Jose, and maybe Fears depending on how he progresses.

[Scalabrine]

This team has more shooting than the team that won 49 games in 23/24. People are making the mistake of slotting Murray into the starting lineup when he is returning by January at best, and likely not at all.

The starters will be Poole, Herb, Murphy, Z and either Missi or Looney. Trey Murphy has been top 10 in catch and shoot 3 point attempts per year for the last two years and Poole shoots as many of them as CJ. Clearing away Ingram solidifies the pecking order and opens up the floor. Biggest question marks for me are not our rookies but our other young guys. If Missi shows defensive improvement and Hawk holds his own then we should be fine.

if Murray isn't playing at all then clearly the biggest problem is a real point guard. You mention both Murphy and Poole as catch and shoot guys, but who is going to feed them the ball in those spots? You just don't really see teams without a real floor general rack up a ton of wins. Is Zion the point forward? I guess I don't hate that...What happens the other 40 games though?

The offense is most powerful when the ball is in Zion's hands with the court spread. That's really always been the case but it was harder to do with Ingram playing because it didn't mesh well with his game. Poole and Herb are more than adequate at bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets. (Herb is an underrated ball handler but he's low usage so people don't notice). I push back on the assessment about floor generals. True point guards really don't exist anymore. SGA, the Boston guards, Steph, none of those guys are true point guards.

When Zion isn't playing the ball handling will the team will lean on Poole and Jose, and maybe Fears depending on how he progresses.

How many times are you guys gonna put your eggs in Zions basket to watch him just eat them and miss 40+ games before y'all figure out something different.

[NO-KG-AI]

The way Pelicans injury recovery is, Im not counting on Murray to play this year.

[NO-KG-AI]

if Murray isn't playing at all then clearly the biggest problem is a real point guard. You mention both Murphy and Poole as catch and shoot guys, but who is going to feed them the ball in those spots? You just don't really see teams without a real floor general rack up a ton of wins. Is Zion the point forward? I guess I don't hate that...What happens the other 40 games though?

The offense is most powerful when the ball is in Zion's hands with the court spread. That's really always been the case but it was harder to do with Ingram playing because it didn't mesh well with his game. Poole and Herb are more than adequate at bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets. (Herb is an underrated ball handler but he's low usage so people don't notice). I push back on the assessment about floor generals. True point guards really don't exist anymore. SGA, the Boston guards, Steph, none of those guys are true point guards.

When Zion isn't playing the ball handling will the team will lean on Poole and Jose, and maybe Fears depending on how he progresses.

How many times are you guys gonna put your eggs in Zions basket to watch him just eat them and miss 40+ games before y'all figure out something different.

He’s good for 60-70 like every other year, so he’s due up. It’s next year we really need to hold our FRP

[Jon1798]

if Murray isn't playing at all then clearly the biggest problem is a real point guard. You mention both Murphy and Poole as catch and shoot guys, but who is going to feed them the ball in those spots? You just don't really see teams without a real floor general rack up a ton of wins. Is Zion the point forward? I guess I don't hate that...What happens the other 40 games though?

The offense is most powerful when the ball is in Zion's hands with the court spread. That's really always been the case but it was harder to do with Ingram playing because it didn't mesh well with his game. Poole and Herb are more than adequate at bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets. (Herb is an underrated ball handler but he's low usage so people don't notice). I push back on the assessment about floor generals. True point guards really don't exist anymore. SGA, the Boston guards, Steph, none of those guys are true point guards.

When Zion isn't playing the ball handling will the team will lean on Poole and Jose, and maybe Fears depending on how he progresses.

How many times are you guys gonna put your eggs in Zions basket to watch him just eat them and miss 40+ games before y'all figure out something different.

Whose basket are we going to put them in? We traded for Jrue and he had a stress fracture in his leg that cost him two seasons. We traded for Boogie and he blew his Achilles. We traded for Dejounte, who’s almost never hurt and he fractured his wrist in the very first game. Before blowing his Achilles. Queen got hurt after three practice games. Herb and Trey? They both tore up their shoulders and missed the season. BI sprained his ankle in December and didn’t play another game. I could go on and on. If we didn’t count on people due to fear of injuries, we wouldn’t have five guys to put on the court. I personally think Zion is going to have a good season. My fear is that it will show where our roster is still really lacking.

[Pointgod]

The offense is most powerful when the ball is in Zion's hands with the court spread. That's really always been the case but it was harder to do with Ingram playing because it didn't mesh well with his game. Poole and Herb are more than adequate at bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets. (Herb is an underrated ball handler but he's low usage so people don't notice). I push back on the assessment about floor generals. True point guards really don't exist anymore. SGA, the Boston guards, Steph, none of those guys are true point guards.

When Zion isn't playing the ball handling will the team will lean on Poole and Jose, and maybe Fears depending on how he progresses.

How many times are you guys gonna put your eggs in Zions basket to watch him just eat them and miss 40+ games before y'all figure out something different.

He’s good for 60-70 like every other year, so he’s due up. It’s next year we really need to hold our FRP

Are there any protections on that first round pick to Atlanta?