Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[tsherkin]

One thing i didnt take into much account was the difference an nba conditioned body will do for him. Obviously hes not 18 years old so i dont expect a huge difference but i still expect an improvement

He's 20, there's still room for him to develop his body, but yeah, it's far less of an immediate concern.

[raincityraptors]

It's easy to interpret something in the least intelligent way possible to make your argument look strong. Kudos, you have a talent for that.

Be careful with comments like this, rain. Better to just address the content than to devolve into that level of sniping.

Everyone I mentioned has performed better in our program than they were expected to. Scottie has gone from 0 level scorer to an All-Star reserve.

He's still among the worst scorers at volume in the league right now, so that probably wasn't the way to credit him. Better to speak on the defense, rebounding and passing which were all markers for him prior to the draft, and represent his actual skills in the league today.

Kawhi thrived in our program and took strides as a playmaker. Even MVP candidates improve bud, it's how they stay MVP candidates.

He did nothing he hadn't already done for the Spurs. His usage varied over the years based on roster and tactical choices for the team.

RJ has improved his efficiency and ballhandling and all 3 of those wings have become better playmakers.

RJ improved his efficiency in his first season here when he was doing almost nothing but scoring at the rim. His shooting hasn't improved outside of 3 feet and he's actually regressed at the line, so this is another one that's a little dicey. Definitely looks like he's putting in more effort on D, though, and his passing has looked better as well, which is nice. But scoring-wise? Mmm, definitely not the argument you want to make after a guy logged a 54.7% TS season in 2025.

Skepticism has its place. Optimism has its place as well. What has no place is sniping at other posters, okay?

It would be nice if this was a place where that didn't happen directly or indirectly.

I appreciate you holding me to account to make this a better place for everyone.

Just be like we want our refs to be and play all sides consistently.

[tsherkin]

It would be nice if this was a place where that didn't happen directly or indirectly.

I appreciate you holding me to account to make this a better place for everyone.

Just be like we want our refs to be and play all sides consistently.

I hear you, but, be the better person, and we will have your back as appropriate. Then we don't have to worry that the pace of the game made us miss something, as sometimes happens in the flow of an NBA game

[Badonkadonk]

Oops double post

[Badonkadonk]

Darko asked point blank what they liked about Collin in the draft process and Darko immediately mentions he's around the same age as a lot of their players

I like CMB as a long time NBA player, but one of the worries I had with Toronto and their rebuild, is that they are prone to take some shortcuts. To me CMB was an ideal pick for a playoff team like OKC to add because he can play right away because of the defense, and if you don't need a lot of offense like OKC, a defensive role player works. Toronto obviously felt he was a win-now type of move.

Does CMB have massive upside? I don't think that is the case. Yes, he is an awesome defender, but seeing him as primary scoring option and being on the short side to a C makes it tough. He just doesn't have any outlier positional size and he is a bit heavy so not a great above average athlete.

Now they passed on upside projects like Carter Bryant, Khaman Maluach, Noa Essengue and Joan Beringer. Let's just hope it's because of CMB's talent and not because those guys are a couple years away. Because all of them seem to have some huge upside and are around 18 year's old.

One mistake people are making with CMB is in gauging his offensive game. He does several things very well for his size and position offensively, including dribble-drives, passing and scoring efficiently from mid-range and in. He's not starting off like OG and bouncing the ball off his foot, or like Norm with extreme tunnel vision.

I think people see his defensive floor and assume he's a certain archetype with limited offensive potential. I strongly disagree, his feel for the game extends to both ends and that he has both a high floor AND a high potential ceiling, especially given the team's developmental record.

[nivisi9]

38:42

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/fan-pregame/inside-the-nhl-offseason-with-logan-thompson-raps-vegas-takeover-with-darko-rajakovic/

Darko asked point blank what they liked about Collin in the draft process and Darko immediately mentions he's around the same age as a lot of their players

I like CMB as a long time NBA player, but one of the worries I had with Toronto and their rebuild, is that they are prone to take some shortcuts. To me CMB was an ideal pick for a playoff team like OKC to add because he can play right away because of the defense, and if you don't need a lot of offense like OKC, a defensive role player works. Toronto obviously felt he was a win-now type of move.

Does CMB have massive upside? I don't think that is the case. Yes, he is an awesome defender, but seeing him as primary scoring option and being on the short side to a C makes it tough. He just doesn't have any outlier positional size and he is a bit heavy so not a great above average athlete.

Now they passed on upside projects like Carter Bryant, Khaman Maluach, Noa Essengue and Joan Beringer. Let's just hope it's because of CMB's talent and not because those guys are a couple years away. Because all of them seem to have some huge upside and are around 18 year's old.

You're misinterpreting the higher outcome ceilings of CMB.

He is ELITE defensive player who can legitimately guard 2-5 with elite BBIQ, and can shutdown most valuable archetype in the league (scoring wings)...

Also besides shooting he was an ELITE offensive player, go take a look at some of his advanced analytics. He was a better and more efficient offensive hub then Queen while playing with NO ONE.

Also elite driving, finishing, and efficiency (with intriguing playmaking).

The idea with CMB is once he gets comfortable and develops into final form 2-3 yrs from now you could possibly be looking at a Kawhi type clone archetype on the wing when considering all he can do/contribute on both ends + overall impact.

CMB just impacts the game across the board in a definitive way.
He also did all this while playing with zero talent.

How much the shooting develops will determine how close to a Kawhi archetype he will get to.

People will see how much his offensive ability is being underrated due to the shooting concerns.

I will be completely shocked if CMB doesnt develop into a star (though may take some time), which type of star could go a few different ways.

He's that good and impactful, give him some time to show who/what he really is and can be.

[tsherkin]

One mistake people are making with CMB is in gauging his offensive game. He does several things very well for his size and position offensively, including dribble-drives, passing and scoring efficiently from mid-range and in. He's not starting off like OG and bouncing the ball off his foot, or like Norm with extreme tunnel vision.

I think people see his defensive floor and assume he's a certain archetype with limited offensive potential. I strongly disagree, his feel for the game extends to both ends and that he has both a high floor AND a high potential ceiling, especially given the team's developmental record.

I think we need to see him playing real games before we author too strong an opinion of any sort where is his offensive game concerned. That's the part where we really need to see him in the RS. Defense, at least we see what he's trying to do, what he's reading, all that sort of stuff is getting magnified. Offensively, these games are horsecrap and the competition isn't super important, so the specifics of his potential on O are a lot fuzzier. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, he's got some speed, but we're not going to be giving him a ton of on-ball possessions with the roster in its present construction, so it'll be a while before we have any real intel on his value offensively outside of the hustle stuff.

[Yallbecrazy]

I just don't understand this line of thinking at all, what has Maluach, Essengue, Bryant, or Beringer shown as massive upside? None of them project as a primary or even secondary scorer. None of them have ever been primary scorers, Bryant has only shown standstill open shooting on low volume. Maluach has shown only rim finishing, same with Beringer. Essengue has only shown slashing and finishing at the rim off other's creation. CMB has shown to be the primary offensive initiator and did really well at it in college. He has shown outlier rim finishing on high usage.

Are we really valuing the guys who are flat out worse at things higher because they have more room to improve? They're going to have to improve a lot just to reach the current level of CMB.

I remember watching CB's SL debut and being underwhelmed, but he seemed to look very different against the Jazz. Early jitters shaken off, perhaps? He looked like he was moving totally different between the two games.

He went 2-11 from the field including 0/3 from 3 and 1/2 from the line with 0 assists and 2 turnovers and that was without jitters?

[tsherkin]

I just don't understand this line of thinking at all, what has Maluach, Essengue, Bryant, or Beringer shown as massive upside? None of them project as a primary or even secondary scorer. None of them have ever been primary scorers, Bryant has only shown standstill open shooting on low volume. Maluach has shown only rim finishing, same with Beringer. Essengue has only shown slashing and finishing at the rim off other's creation. CMB has shown to be the primary offensive initiator and did really well at it in college. He has shown outlier rim finishing on high usage.

Are we really valuing the guys who are flat out worse at things higher because they have more room to improve? They're going to have to improve a lot just to reach the current level of CMB.

I remember watching CB's SL debut and being underwhelmed, but he seemed to look very different against the Jazz. Early jitters shaken off, perhaps? He looked like he was moving totally different between the two games.

He went 2-11 from the field including 0/3 from 3 nad and 1/2 from the line with 0 assists and 2 turnovers and that was without jitters?

I was speaking very specifically about how he moved, not his overall performance. My first impression of him was to be heavily underwhelmed with his athleticism, but he looked a lot springier and more fluid in the second game.

[Badonkadonk]

One mistake people are making with CMB is in gauging his offensive game. He does several things very well for his size and position offensively, including dribble-drives, passing and scoring efficiently from mid-range and in. He's not starting off like OG and bouncing the ball off his foot, or like Norm with extreme tunnel vision.

I think people see his defensive floor and assume he's a certain archetype with limited offensive potential. I strongly disagree, his feel for the game extends to both ends and that he has both a high floor AND a high potential ceiling, especially given the team's developmental record.

I think we need to see him playing real games before we author too strong an opinion of any sort where is his offensive game concerned. That's the part where we really need to see him in the RS. Defense, at least we see what he's trying to do, what he's reading, all that sort of stuff is getting magnified. Offensively, these games are horsecrap and the competition isn't super important, so the specifics of his potential on O are a lot fuzzier. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, he's got some speed, but we're not going to be giving him a ton of on-ball possessions with the roster in its present construction, so it'll be a while before we have any real intel on his value offensively outside of the hustle stuff.

I completely discount SL, I agree it's meaningless. I'm talking about what he showed with the Gamecocks. This is also why I cited his specific skills, it'll come down to how well he can build on his current strengths (interior scoring and passing/awareness) while shoring up weaknesses (all of the microskills that will make him a more consistent shooter).

He scored 16.8 points on 10.6 shots in College on a team bereft of offensive talent. My point is he's got a solid starting point compared to some other prospects we've seen come through here.

Keandre's (Hoops Intellect) scouting reports are pretty great, he leans into the criticisms and swing skills fairly imo:

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

I completely discount SL, I agree it's meaningless. I'm talking about what he showed with the Gamecocks.

Nothing he has done before SL is any more relevant than SL, though.

He has shown some signs. He has some quickness. He has some elementary handles. He certainly has the body and will to absorb contact, and can in the interior. He has noted weakness as a shooter. His passing looks pretty good from his usual spots.

I'm just very hesitant to care too much about what he did as a sub-20 ppg scorer in college as being terribly relevant to us, especially since he isn't apt to get tons of reps of face-up drives for us.

[2Leftfeet]

Guess when CMB gets his first big contract most people will want to see him gone.I just see another OG.

[tsherkin]

Guess when CMB gets his first big contract most people will want to see him gone.

Kind of depends how he performs over the next, like, 3 seasons. He has a lot of time to show us what he is worth. And as long as we aren't asking/projecting him to be our next offensive savior, then we'll probably see a fairly different approach to him than, say, with Scottie.

[TimeForChange]

there should be no more than 4 or 5 of us in this thread.

go start a maluach thread and go post his suns highlights

[TimeForChange]

i see the negative nancies are taking over another thread just like the scottie thread.

I will never understand why people can't focus on the players they like and post positive stuff in their threads.

if you think RJ is a good player, go post in his thread instead of mucking up another thread with your nonsense.

[TheDunc]

Im curious how a Sandro and Boyles front court will do off the bench, i think we might be surprised what he can do when he has space and shooters around him.

[tsherkin]

i see the negative nancies are taking over another thread just like the scottie thread.

We have 4 years of Scottie's weaknesses (and strengths) to go on. I think most of us have a fair bead on what he can and cannot really do.

CMB hasn't even played a preseason game yet, let alone a season or two of actual NBA ball, so he definitely deserves a little time to show us what he can be. We don't even know where he'll fit into the rotation at this point; obviously, I think we're mostly beginning to expect him to earn more and more minutes as the season goes on, though. He looks like he has a lot of strong defensive instincts and some solid physical tools. I think folks just need to mind their expectations.

[GLF]

i see the negative nancies are taking over another thread just like the scottie thread.

I will never understand why people can't focus on the players they like and post positive stuff in their threads.

if you think RJ is a good player, go post in his thread instead of mucking up another thread with your nonsense.

Couldn’t agree more. The Scottie thread I don’t even check anymore bc it’s just the same people repeating the same thing over and over again about Scottie lol. Like okay we get it you don’t think he’ll ever be anything more than he is currently on offence. Cool. I don’t know how many times we have to read the same thing lol. But yea every thread of a specific player on this team always gets derailed by the negative people. Certain people right when I see their name I just roll my eyes bc I know exactly what they’re gonna say and like clockwork I’m right. It’s like damn, if you don’t like anyone on this team or think anyone on this team can improve then why follow the team lol. So much focus on what players can’t do and are bad at and not enough about what they can do and are good at. Oh well, I can’t police how and what people post and I have no desire to. To each their own.

[Dalek]

Darko asked point blank what they liked about Collin in the draft process and Darko immediately mentions he's around the same age as a lot of their players

I like CMB as a long time NBA player, but one of the worries I had with Toronto and their rebuild, is that they are prone to take some shortcuts. To me CMB was an ideal pick for a playoff team like OKC to add because he can play right away because of the defense, and if you don't need a lot of offense like OKC, a defensive role player works. Toronto obviously felt he was a win-now type of move.

Does CMB have massive upside? I don't think that is the case. Yes, he is an awesome defender, but seeing him as primary scoring option and being on the short side to a C makes it tough. He just doesn't have any outlier positional size and he is a bit heavy so not a great above average athlete.

Now they passed on upside projects like Carter Bryant, Khaman Maluach, Noa Essengue and Joan Beringer. Let's just hope it's because of CMB's talent and not because those guys are a couple years away. Because all of them seem to have some huge upside and are around 18 year's old.

You're misinterpreting the higher outcome ceilings of CMB.

He is ELITE defensive player who can legitimately guard 2-5 with elite BBIQ, and can shutdown most valuable archetype in the league (scoring wings)...

Also besides shooting he was an ELITE offensive player, go take a look at some of his advanced analytics. He was a better and more efficient offensive hub then Queen while playing with NO ONE.

Also elite driving, finishing, and efficiency (with intriguing playmaking).

The idea with CMB is once he gets comfortable and develops into final form 2-3 yrs from now you could possibly be looking at a Kawhi type clone archetype on the wing when considering all he can do/contribute on both ends + overall impact.

CMB just impacts the game across the board in a definitive way.
He also did all this while playing with zero talent.

How much the shooting develops will determine how close to a Kawhi archetype he will get to.

People will see how much his offensive ability is being underrated due to the shooting concerns.

I will be completely shocked if CMB doesnt develop into a star (though may take some time), which type of star could go a few different ways.

He's that good and impactful, give him some time to show who/what he really is and can be.

Yes, I think the shooting issues kind of pushed me away from him during the draft process. The combine shooting in the drills was killer for me.

I followed his progression from year one and year two and I am really impressed with the leap he took, but my question is going to still be how easy will that type of dribble drive game be at the next level. He finished well in college, so there is hope. The passing ability is a question mark to me because he had a high turnover rate.

CMB, Queen and Newell all rated out in the same tier for me, with me having Newell higher than both because he had a functional offensive skillset that pointed to being capable as a stretch forward and some good ground coverage on defense. Of course, CMB was the elite defensive guy and he looks the part.

I guess my bigger point is that drafting for fit cannot outweigh potential. We haven't seen much offense from CMB either because he is hurt or not trying to rock the boat by jacking shots like Queen has, but for a high floor pick he hasn't shown much scoring against pretty weak competition in SL.

[TimeForChange]

i see the negative nancies are taking over another thread just like the scottie thread.

I will never understand why people can't focus on the players they like and post positive stuff in their threads.

if you think RJ is a good player, go post in his thread instead of mucking up another thread with your nonsense.

Couldn’t agree more. The Scottie thread I don’t even check anymore bc it’s just the same people repeating the same thing over and over again about Scottie lol. Like okay we get it you don’t think he’ll ever be anything more than he is currently on offence. Cool. I don’t know how many times we have to read the same thing lol. But yea every thread of a specific player on this team always gets derailed by the negative people. Certain people right when I see their name I just roll my eyes bc I know exactly what they’re gonna say and like clockwork I’m right. It’s like damn, if you don’t like anyone on this team or think anyone on this team can improve then why follow the team lol. So much focus on what players can’t do and are bad at and not enough about what they can do and are good at. Oh well, I can’t police how and what people post and I have no desire to. To each their own.

you would think the moderators would actually moderate, but instead they continue to...