RealGM 2025 Greatest Peaks Project #2 — 1974 Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

[tsherkin]

Still, for all that overwhelming talent, should it not reflect at least a bit negatively on Kareem that he never beat a 3.5-SRS team without Magic?

Do we need to go over LA's roster in the 70s to remind people that superstars get smoked all the time until they have real help which comes through, though?

[OhayoKD]

Still, for all that overwhelming talent, should it not reflect at least a bit negatively on Kareem that he never beat a 3.5-SRS team without Magic?

Do we need to go over LA's roster in the 70s to remind people that superstars get smoked all the time until they have real help which comes through, though?

Personally, I'm more impressed by outscoring the +11.65 SRS Lakers with his co-star basically a no-show due to injury, taking the Celtics to 7 without his point guard, beating the Warriors with one of his co-stars injured, and staying competitive with Walton without his two best teammates...than hypothetically beating a +3.5 srs team in favorable conditions.

And yeah, they lost all but one of those instances but this is the peak player project, not the peak team project. And while I'm not going to raise a fuss over those who want to reward the binary of winning while completely ignoring what happens in defeat, I don't think that really speaks to a chronic limitation of Kareem the player.

I also think if "getting outperformed in a game 7" without your point guard against the eventual champions (who might have won the previous year with health) featuring the second best player of the greatest dynasty ever and the only person who won MVP other than you since your rookie season is a knock...perhaps we shouldn't be so forgiving of Lebron not even getting to 7 vs the Orlando Magic.

[tsherkin]

Personally, I'm more impressed by outscoring the +11.65 SRS Lakers with his co-star basically a no-show due to injury, taking the Celtics to 7 without his point guard, beating the Warriors with one of his co-stars injured, and staying competitive with Walton without his two best teammates...than hypothetically beating a +3.5 srs team in favorable conditions.

There are certainly many reasons to be impressed by Kareem.

More broadly, I wanted to remind people of the limitations a single player of any level faces when his teammates don't come through. Witness Shaq dropping 27/11 on the 96 Bulls and shooting 64% from the field and still getting swept, even. Or Jordan versus the Celtics in the 80s, etc, etc.

Individual impact is pretty high in the NBA, but it does go only so far. So teammate-specific performance (such as on the 94 Rockets or 2011 Mavs) does need consideration.

[BusywithBball]

I think you have learned some people discuss outside of Realgm thread. I was not aware that is not allowed? You do not help my opinion of Jordan when you call me cheat because I don’t agree with you.

So, I want to chime in on this specifically as a participant rather than a Moderator as my title implies.

Discussions about a RealGM project outside of RealGM have always been considered acceptable, but there is an expectations that you're not substituting those outside discussions for RealGM discussions, because the primary goal of projects like these is to essentially talk through the journey so others can learn from it.

This then to say, if a conversation elsewhere changes your mind on something, rule of thumb, talk here about what you were thinking before and why you changed your mind, because your moments of learning are what we're hoping to capture.

Does this make sense?

It's always tricky because there's absolutely an expectation that we all (myself included) get overly fixated on the actual rankings & ratings that come out of these projects - which is a good argument for taking other routes to further your learning about basketball - but nothing crystalizes the collective focus like projects that force us to choose A vs B.

Incidentally, I find the fact that Peaks projects are generally harder than Career projects for us (again, myself included) to be extremely telling. We all (posters, players, journalists, whoever) have a tendency to essentially "seal up" the actual basketball play into quantized chunks of achievement, and then evaluate Career in a more top down way which tends to result in a kind of "if it's close, go by longevity" tiebreaking method that smooths out disagreements over the actual basketball. A Peak project doesn't allow us that way out of conflict, nor does it allow us to hide the limitations in knowledge and understanding about the game itself, and so generally have more of what I'll call "agonization" per spot in a Peak project than a Career project, and we can't go as far (as I learned the hard way when I rank an iteration of this project with the goal of merely getting to 50 rather than 100, and iirc we didn't even get to 40).

Anyway, my perspective on the original point:

When you're in a project in a particular community,
Learn anywhere you can,
Share what you learned in the community

Or even more succinctly:

Learn globally
Share locally

I see I was told exaggeration. DIscussing outside is easier but I will try and say more here.

[One_and_Done]

I haven't heard much of an argument against Duncan yet. To me he is the clear choice here.

Duncan's an interesting one. What makes him your selection over someone like Kareem, who was a very good defender and a considerably better scorer, and smashed accolades over Duncan as well? Or to that point, Olajuwon? Who was similar defensively, and not distant offensively either, and with major playoff success and accolades?

Or to that point, what separates Duncan from Wilt?

And Duncan versus Shaq, peak to peak? There's a large pro-Duncan gap on D even though Shaq was All-D in those years, but Shaq smashes offensively.

Duncan was a much, much better defender than Kareem. I’d take him over Hakeem also, especially as a man defender. He certainly played in a tougher era than those guys (or Wilt, who I don’t even treat seriously as a candidate).

As for Shaq, we saw Duncan outplay Shaq in 99, 02, and 03 in the playoffs (and RS), so it’s a tough sell for me that Shaq in 00 surpassed peak Duncan. After all, while Shaq peaked in 00, he was still substantially the same player in the previous and subsequent years.

I don’t really see anyone other than Lebron who had the lift Duncan showed in 02 or 03. Those support casts, especially in 02, were rubbish. I don’t think the 2002 Spurs would win 20 games without Duncan. Then you look at how not only was he the lynchpin of their defence, but almost every single offensive possession went through him those years. The load he was carrying was far greater than the other names being thrown around.

People point to old man D.Rob in 02 or 03, or young Manu and Parker in 03. In truth, D.Rob was utterly washed those years, and wasn’t even healthy for most of the 02 series where Duncan outplayed Shaq while matching up with him. We hear from advanced stat fans how significant D.Rob was, yet in 03 the Spurs were 15-3 without him. Then after D.Rob retired, they replaced him with 3 weak defensive players in Rasho, Horry and Hedo… and the Spurs defence actually improved! The Spurs were I think 10-3 without Manu in 03, who was still an unreliable and streaky rookie, and Tony Parker was so raw in 2003 that in the finals he was losing minutes to random journeyman guard Speedy Claxton. Those Spurs teams were succeeding almost entirely because of Duncan.

[tsherkin]

Duncan was a much, much better defender than Kareem. I’d take him over Hakeem also, especially as a man defender. He certainly played in a tougher era than those guys (or Wilt, who I don’t even treat seriously as a candidate).

Ah, your usual nonsense.

No, Duncan definitely wasn't facing a lot more individual talent at his position than Hakeem was. Nor Wilt, really. But especially so with Hakeem, it isn't really a defensible position at all.

As for Shaq, we saw Duncan outplay Shaq in 99, 02, and 03 in the playoffs (and RS),

Did we?

99, his scoring looks it, sure. Worth remembering that there was still David Robinson on that team and he was guarding Shaq more than Duncan (hell, Will Purdue was guarding Shaq, rather than Duncan, a fair bit). So it's hard to evaluate them directly. I'd call that one debatable if you consider the difference in team efficacy and defensive check, but I can see the Duncan argument.

02 was definitely Duncan.

03 was not. Kobe was shooting a lot more than Shaq, but O'neal was still a 25/14/3.5 player, shooting 56% from the floor and north of 59% TS, in 2 fewer mpg than Duncan. While Kobe was taking nearly 27 FGA/g and took almost 60 more FGA than Shaq in the series.

We didn't get to see peak Shaq against Duncan, because that was 2000, but it would have been interesting. That was absolutely Shaq's best season, and it differed meaningfully from the adjacent seasons. And then even in your listed sample, you have a borderline series and one legit series in Duncan's favor. It's not that substantial an argument, at least to me.

Regardless, while I can see a pro-Duncan argument (because he WAS quite epic at the time), I don't buy the specific arguments you're making against Shaq.

[penbeast0]

...Then after D.Rob retired, they replaced him with 3 weak defensive players in Rasho, Horry and Hedo…

Weak overall players, maybe, not all weak defensive. Rasho was a defensive specialist; no NBA level offensive skills but solid backup center with decent (not great) defense. Horry was a good man defender, especially out on the floor for a 4. Not great but certainly competent rather than weak. Turkoglu was indeed garbage on the defensive end with both weak coverage skills and poor switching.

[OhayoKD]

Duncan was a much, much better defender than Kareem. I’d take him over Hakeem also, especially as a man defender. He certainly played in a tougher era than those guys (or Wilt, who I don’t even treat seriously as a candidate).

Ah, your usual nonsense.

No, Duncan definitely wasn't facing a lot more individual talent at his position than Hakeem was. Nor Wilt, really. But especially so with Hakeem, it isn't really a defensible position at all.

Depends on what one means by "alot" but i'd take KG and Lakers Shaq over anyone Hakeem or Wilt faced (yes, that includes Russell minus era-relativity).

As for Shaq, we saw Duncan outplay Shaq in 99, 02, and 03 in the playoffs (and RS),

Did we?

99, his scoring looks it, sure. Worth remembering that there was still David Robinson on that team and he was guarding Shaq more than Duncan (hell, Will Purdue was guarding Shaq, rather than Duncan, a fair bit). So it's hard to evaluate them directly. I'd call that one debatable if you consider the difference in team efficacy and defensive check, but I can see the Duncan argument.

If a gap of 5 points and 10 points of true shooting is "debatable" then I think it's time to start considering Duncan vs Shaq (offense only) debatable in general, never mind overall.

Duncan completely outclassed Shaq in 99 which is pretty interesting since 99 is a year removed from what you consider Shaq's peak, while 4 years removed from Duncan's. I tend to think when you get stomped (individually) right next to your peak by a sophomore, there's a good chance the sophomore is better. And hey, for whatever it's worth, RAPM agrees.

[AEnigma]

Still, for all that overwhelming talent, should it not reflect at least a bit negatively on Kareem that he never beat a 3.5-SRS team without Magic?

Do we need to go over LA's roster in the 70s to remind people that superstars get smoked all the time until they have real help which comes through, though?

There is more than just 1977 to analyse.

Personally, I'm more impressed by outscoring the +11.65 SRS Lakers with his co-star basically a no-show due to injury, and staying competitive with Walton without his two best teammates

Yes, wonderful moral victories on par with the 2016 Spurs and 2003 Blazers. Glad he kept the point differential tight; too many people forget about the secret series win assigned to those who win the point differential battle.

taking the Celtics to 7 without his point guard,

He had his point guard; what he was missing was his #3 scorer and second ballhandler.

beating the Warriors with one of his co-stars injured... than hypothetically beating a +3.5 srs team in favorable conditions.

Who said it needed to be favourable. That 1977 Warriors series is the only time we can say prime Kareem won a series without favourable conditions.

There are certainly many reasons to be impressed by Kareem.

More broadly, I wanted to remind people of the limitations a single player of any level faces when his teammates don't come through. Witness Shaq dropping 27/11 on the 96 Bulls and shooting 64% from the field and still getting swept, even. Or Jordan versus the Celtics in the 80s, etc, etc.

Individual impact is pretty high in the NBA, but it does go only so far. So teammate-specific performance (such as on the 94 Rockets or 2011 Mavs) does need consideration.

This is not a contention against anything I said, nor does it offer much of anything in a comparative exercise. We can lament the same team limitations — and do so more accurately — about Kevin Garnett, but he only has appeared on one ballot thus far. And Kevin Garnett is the one with clearer indicators of impact while playing in a more developed league. Teammates are not some catch-all excuse, especially when a large part of the contention here is that Kareem did not elevate his teammates the way others did.

And yeah, they lost all but one of those instances but this is the peak player project, not the peak team project. And while I'm not going to raise a fuss over those who want to reward the binary of winning while completely ignoring what happens in defeat, I don't think that really speaks to a chronic limitation of Kareem the player.

I never said chronic, but it also should not be inspiring overwhelming confidence in him — and to the extent anyone is “ignoring what happens in defeat,” it seems more on the side of those reflexively placing all blame on teammates.

I also think if "getting outperformed in a game 7" without your point guard

This idea that he needs Lucius Allen to succeed is not a particularly positive reflection on him, nor does it excuse his underperformance in the most important game of the season.

against the eventual champions (who might have won the previous year with health) featuring the second best player of the greatest dynasty ever and the only person who won MVP other than you since your rookie season is a knock...

This is lazy narrativising and you know it. Dave Cowens and John Havlicek is not some overwhelming collection of talent, nor do you think so seeing how much you advocate against peak Havlicek when it comes to illustrating Russell’s impact on the Celtics.

perhaps we shouldn't be so forgiving of Lebron not even getting to 7 vs the Orlando Magic.

I did not excuse Lebron’s Game 6 struggles and in fact specifically mentioned them in a way few other Lebron voters do or did. But if Kareem had five games on the level of 2009 ECF G1-5 Lebron in his Finals series, then he would not have needed to worry about a Game 7.

[One_and_Done]

...Then after D.Rob retired, they replaced him with 3 weak defensive players in Rasho, Horry and Hedo…

Weak overall players, maybe, not all weak defensive. Rasho was a defensive specialist; no NBA level offensive skills but solid backup center with decent (not great) defense. Horry was a good man defender, especially out on the floor for a 4. Not great but certainly competent rather than weak. Turkoglu was indeed garbage on the defensive end with both weak coverage skills and poor switching.

Rasho was a decent help defender, but was a bad defender overall. He wasn't a bad player. He had a decent jump shot, and the theory of him playing next to Duncan wasn't bad. In hindsight they'd have been better off outbidding the Horners for PJ Brown. Horry was an OK defender when he locked in, but that certainly didn't happen in the RS, which is what Drtg is measuring. Hedo, as you admit, was garbage.

Certainly, none was the elite defender that advanced stat fans seem to think D.Rob still was, and yet the Spurs defense improved substantially when D.Rob retired; from 99.7 all the way down to 94.1. Then in 05 the defence was still better than it had been in the preceding 2 years with D.Rob, in spite of the changes to the touch rules that caused a big offensive spike.

That was overwhelming thanks to Duncan.

[AEnigma]

2025 #2 Greatest Peak Result: 1974 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar



I recorded 26 ballots for this thread. No player established a majority of first place ballots; however, Kareem won the head-to-head against all other named players. 1974 was the selected season by a majority (11/21) of ballots expressing a preference. The top three respective head-to-head records are recorded below:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins 16-7 over Bill Russell.
Michael Jordan wins 13-7 over Bill Russell.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins 18-7 over Michael Jordan.

The 26 voters were:
Elpolo_14, trelos6, Top10alltime, Verticality, Busywithbball, Djoker, Paulluxx, IlikeSHAIguys, Chip, metta-tonne, Ollie Coraline, OhayoKD, Reardonwd, emn_010, LeoClark, One_and_Done, f4p, McBubbles, Ol Roy, capfan33, homecourtloss, Doctor MJ, tsherkin, VanWest82, Lebronnygoat, and AEnigma.

If you voted and do not see your name listed, please let me know; always possible that I missed someone.

The #3 Greatest Peaks thread will open shortly.

[penbeast0]

...Then after D.Rob retired, they replaced him with 3 weak defensive players in Rasho, Horry and Hedo…

Weak overall players, maybe, not all weak defensive. Rasho was a defensive specialist; no NBA level offensive skills but solid backup center with decent (not great) defense. Horry was a good man defender, especially out on the floor for a 4. Not great but certainly competent rather than weak. Turkoglu was indeed garbage on the defensive end with both weak coverage skills and poor switching.

Rasho was a decent help defender, but was a bad defender overall. He wasn't a bad player. He had a decent jump shot, and the theory of him playing next to Duncan wasn't bad. In hindsight they'd have been better off outbidding the Horners for PJ Brown. Horry was an OK defender when he locked in, but that certainly didn't happen in the RS, which is what Drtg is measuring. Hedo, as you admit, was garbage.

Certainly, none was the elite defender that advanced stat fans seem to think D.Rob still was, and yet the Spurs defense improved substantially when D.Rob retired; from 99.7 all the way down to 94.1. Then in 05 the defence was still better than it had been in the preceding 2 years with D.Rob, in spite of the changes to the touch rules that caused a big offensive spike.

That was overwhelming thanks to Duncan.

I don't disagree on Duncan's impact or in the idea that none were elite defenders. Robinson was but Duncan was rapidly improving his first 3 years in the league and the twin towers theory was successful due to additive defensive greatness, not synergistic defensive meshing. The strengths of the two overlapped and probably each was less than they could have been individually when they played together. The degree to which the other 3 starters at 1,2,3 were better or worse and the difference in scheme may have been a factor. But Duncan was certainly the main man on the Spurs by 03 and 04 on both ends of the floor.

[Elpolo_14]

I haven't heard much of an argument against Duncan yet. To me he is the clear choice here.

I personally have Duncan in the podium myself Which he's 3rd in term of overall Peak.

There Player who I think have good argument to push them Above Peak Duncan Not to push Duncan down but to push other up by personal Criteria ( just depends on who gonna push it ).

1. Kareem ( my personal Top 2 ) - have as Impressive Carrying Job in regular season and playoff ( with injured teammates ) - was All time defender with his size and mobility - he one of the best Volume scorer to ever live his Rim Pressure + Skyhook are almost unstoppable even against another all time defender as Bill Walton with playmaking arsenal pretty similar to Duncan but with more gravity due to scoring threat.

2. Hakeem ( my personal Top 4 ) - in 1993 also have really good carry Job when his team didn't fully developed to the system Rudy implement yet. GOAT DEFENDER ( IMO ) with his awareness + positioning + lateral/horizontal moment. Might be one of the most scalable defender till KG come in. Resilience scorer against playoff setting with good Prerimeter playmaking when defense collapse on him.

3. Shaq ( my personal top 5 ) - almost Transcending offensive engine due to the best rim pressure all time and post pressure with his dominance+post movement to overpower or overflow the defender. Best or second best Gravity every to create separation for teammates both Prerimeter or Cutter ( those traits help him anchor all time offensive even against Great defensive team in playoffs ). Elite interior defense but have a weakness on prerimeter and PnP/PnR defense which was fine in regular season but hot a bit trickier in Playoffs

At the end of the Day I still put Duncan really high myself cause of his defense ( with and without Drob still anchor all time defense due to motor+ Skillsets ) and how he able to scale the offensive load in despite of help + against playoff Coverage.

[lessthanjake]

Hey Paulluxx9000, metta-tonne, Reardonwd, LeoClark, emn_101, Chip, and Ollie Coraline. I noticed you guys all don't have that many posts ever on Real GM. Nice to get some new blood in here with some fresh ideas. Didn't notice you guys in the first peaks threads, but it'd be interesting to hear more about your votes in this thread.

Since I didn't see him on any of your ballots, I think you all voted LeBron #1. So I guess the ideas weren't that fresh . But hey, LeBron won by a lot and he's really good, even I struggled with my first vote, so gotta hand it to The King.

I see you've all got Kareem really high. Really showing that depth and breadth of knowledge of NBA history we all like around here. And I see 5 of you agreed on '74 Kareem. The rest of this thread's had a tough time figuring out which Kareem season, but you guys kind of honed in on that one. I mean not all 7 of you, that would probably be weird, right? But hey, you bucked the trend outside of this board, you all had Kareem over Jordan. metta, you even stood firm and picked Kareem even though you didn't really think he was 3rd best. Reardon, I think you were real impressed by the recent Kareem arguments. I think someone made one back on the first page of this thread, maybe that was the one? You even were impressed by that new tracking data people have been doing on Jordan's assists in the '91 finals. And Paul, you could have picked Jordan 3rd but mentioned you picked Kareem partly because he was even a better scorer than Jordan. Of course, I guess Duncan was your 4th pick so I guess there wasn't even much need to mention Jordan.

Also, quite a few '16 Steph fans up in here. I didn't realize the '16 Steph/'74 Kareem venn diagram was practically just one circle, but hey, ignoring that disastrous playoffs due to injuries, it was a pretty damn great season. I can see why 4 of you picked it even though I don't think anyone else in the thread did. Thinking outside the box. Although I guess you kind of ended up inside a different box, haha. I kid.

Lot of Bill Russell. We all love Russ don't we. Even some Hakeem and even a Giannis mention. Bold. I think we've got some posters who really champion all 3 of those guys really hardcore so I think you'll find it enjoyable here.

And of course, I'd be remiss to not mention your evergreen thirst for knowledge. With all of the NBA history mentioned in these posts, very recent things have still been able to sway your votes. A lot of them were even things or arguments you just learned about or were persuaded by about the most famous basketball player ever, who has been dissected and trisected and discussed ad nauseum (seriously, I might throw up) for 3 straight decades. metta wasn't too sure about the assists in the '91 finals from some of that recent tracking data we've come to enjoy. Reardon was also a little concerned about those same assists and if they weren't up to snuff. emn likes hakeem's 2-10 WOWY data and is big on the new creations tracking also. Chip, I think you just found out about the steals scandal and, in a tough decision, had to move Kareem up because of this new information. And Ollie, you found that Hakeem adversity argument particularly persuasive and, in another tough decision, had to leave MJ off your ballot. Firm, but fair. It's good you were all swayed by different things and not the same thing, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell you apart, lol.

Anyway, it's good to have new guys (and gals?), on the board. I look forward to seeing what you've learned in the next thread.

there is a very large difference between expanding the voter pool to increase the depth and volume of enlightening conversations versus recruiting alt accounts that dont participate anywhere else on the site to ballot stuff so that literally one guy (everyone knows who) can gloat about getting the outcome that makes him happy

Haven’t had time to post here due to real life stuff (indeed, I didn’t even vote in this thread), but after just reading the above posts, I want to repost this screenshot, which shows OhayoKD talking on Discord about “scripting” a new poster’s posts:



I think it’s fairly transparent what’s going on. Though the discussions themselves in these threads can still be interesting.

[Cavsfansince84]

I will say I think its pretty strange that right when this project starts this board gets flooded with accounts that have 20-150 total posts and who want to be part of the project. That's just a huge red flag to me and even if there's a lot of posters coming over from the gb it still doesn't make the post counts jive. I think there needs to be a minimum post threshold of 500 or 1000 in future projects because its pretty obvious that some people just want to vote more than once and every regular on this board knows that there's been shenanigans in the past involving people who use alts and got caught.

[One_and_Done]

I will say I think its pretty strange that right when this project starts this board gets flooded with accounts that have 20-150 total posts and who want to be part of the project. That's just a huge red flag to me and even if there's a lot of posters coming over from the gb it still doesn't make the post counts jive. I think there needs to be a minimum post threshold of 500 or 1000 in future projects because its pretty obvious that some people just want to vote more than once and every regular on this board knows that there's been shenanigans in the past involving people who use alts and got caught.

While I agree with much of this, I'd also note that Jordan's support seems to have dropped off too. That's because a bunch of drive by voters came here to vote Jordan #1, after it was advertised on the General board, and then once he lost to Lebron they were done with participating. For them it was Jordan #1, and nothing else worth posting about.

[Special_Puppy]

I will say I think its pretty strange that right when this project starts this board gets flooded with accounts that have 20-150 total posts and who want to be part of the project. That's just a huge red flag to me and even if there's a lot of posters coming over from the gb it still doesn't make the post counts jive. I think there needs to be a minimum post threshold of 500 or 1000 in future projects because its pretty obvious that some people just want to vote more than once and every regular on this board knows that there's been shenanigans in the past involving people who use alts and got caught.

500 to 1000 is probably too high a threshold, but 50 is reasonable. You just don’t want a bunch of (essentially) throwaway accounts who only post their votes, don’t participate in discussion, don’t participate anywhere else on this website, and basically drop off after the project is over.

[Cavsfansince84]

500 to 1000 is probably too high a threshold, but 50 is reasonable. You just don’t want a bunch of (essentially) throwaway accounts who only post their votes, don’t participate in discussion, don’t participate anywhere else on this website, and basically drop off after the project is over.

I wouldn't say that 50 is all that reasonable at all tbh. Someone could do that in an hour if they wanted to or less.

[Elpolo_14]

Haven’t had time to post here due to real life stuff (indeed, I didn’t even vote in this thread), but after just reading the above posts, I want to repost this screenshot, which shows OhayoKD talking on Discord about “scripting” a new poster’s posts:



I think it’s fairly transparent what’s going on. Though the discussions themselves in these threads can still be interesting.

I would Just address about the "SCRIPTING for me *Elpolo ". It was about how to formul an argument or reasoning because English Isn't really my second or third language so I was having trouble to explain my thoughts or put into perspective my view of the game to a more general Public. I was just entering basketball discussion ( ENG. ) not so long ago so the Scripting make me understand more how to write a paragraph to explain my thoughts better. Even now I have some trouble but it get easier overtime for me to write and make discussion.

At that time I usually don't have advance words to make my reasoning seem more compelling. ( Even now to some extent but by reading more I start to have more vocabulary )

Most Information or Things I value on basketball court is Vastly different from what OhayoKD does. For me how player play on court is as important if not more than Impact metric. That why in this project I try to write about player ability and combine a bit of impact to evaluate player.

You can give me your email and I can write you up and show the screen shot of things I write for this project to prove that All post are made by my own Criteria to evaluate basketball.

[70sFan]

I’d take him over Hakeem also, especially as a man defender.

That's actually quite strange argument. Hakeem was significantly better perimeter defender than Duncan and he was more crafty down low as well. Duncan did better against Shaq due to his length and core strength, but the man defense ability doesn't end at Shaq. Hakeem had quite many shutdown moments in his career, while Duncan wasn't known for that at all.

I don't see that argument at all.