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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

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How many wins do you expect the Suns to have this season?

61+
4
5%
56-60
0
No votes
51-55
0
No votes
46-50
4
5%
41-45
16
21%
36-40
14
18%
31-35
21
27%
26-30
14
18%
25 or under
5
6%
 
Total votes: 78

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1541 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 17, 2025 11:22 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Dame ventured outside of his little bubble to a world where people actually cared/noticed that he doesn't play D and was like f that get me home :)

Outside of winning a title with Milwaukee, this might be one of the BEST career arc for a player that didn't win a title.

Got PAID, got the love and adoration of a whole city, got an opportunity to play for a title with Giannis, didn't work out and go bought out (still got paid every dollar) and is now back with the city that brought him up and on a great deal to play out his career.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1542 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:04 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Just imagine for a moment that we get him...wow, I can imagine him fitting nicely on our current roster.

Depends on what he signs for. Like I'm not a big KumBucket fan. Yeah he's young, he's really athletic and plays good defense but not a great scorer, not a good shooter, not an elite rebounder at his position, and he fouls a lot.


Exactly this! The thing with Kuminga is he's a borderline poster child for unrealized potential. He's also expecting to get paid at least 25 million a year. Sure, he's not Patrick Williams or anything that bad, and he's still got immensely potential.

But if he never breaks through, then with that contract, he'll be viewed in a similar light as Jerami Grant or a slightly better value P Williams perhaps. It really does depend upon what ye signs for. I'm not at all completely opposed to the idea of acquiring him, but again, being fiscally responsible is paramount for our future.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1543 » by King4Day » Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:40 am

As for Kuminga. 4@ 100 mil.
Trade Allen & O'neal for him. I would think they could fit pretty well with the Warriors. Just a matter of, do the Warriors want those contracts. Both could help them but they are 3 years left each
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1544 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:41 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Just imagine for a moment that we get him...wow, I can imagine him fitting nicely on our current roster.

Depends on what he signs for. Like I'm not a big KumBucket fan. Yeah he's young, he's really athletic and plays good defense but not a great scorer, not a good shooter, not an elite rebounder at his position, and he fouls a lot.


Exactly this! The thing with Kuminga is he's a borderline poster child for unrealized potential. He's also expecting to get paid at least 25 million a year. Sure, he's not Patrick Williams or anything that bad, and he's still got immensely potential.

But if he never breaks through, then with that contract, he'll be viewed in a similar light as Jerami Grant or a slightly better value P Williams perhaps. It really does depend upon what ye signs for. I'm not at all completely opposed to the idea of acquiring him, but again, being fiscally responsible is paramount for our future.

Looking at the multi-year salaries on our books, Grayson and Royce makes a combined $27m next season, $29m the next and $31m in 2027. I think a deal for Kuminga at most will be a 4 year deal so it'll expire a year after in 2028. If we can get him for less than what those 2 make the next few years, I think it's a worthy gamble although one guy at almost $30m is probably harder to move than 1 guy at $11.6m for example.

I feel like we already have an expensive young, unproven guy on a big contract (Green), I'm not super keen to bring another onboard, especially when we already have Mark Williams' extension to look at next offseason as well. I'm not saying these guys are mediocre because they're not but for the money they're on or might be getting, we may have 3 of them on the roster by 2027.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1545 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:44 am

King4Day wrote:As for Kuminga. 4@ 100 mil.
Trade Allen & O'neal for him. I would think they could fit pretty well with the Warriors. Just a matter of, do the Warriors want those contracts. Both could help them but they are 3 years left each

If it's $100m/4, I could probably live with it. Royce/Grayson (sick name btw) aren't taking us anywhere, aren't part of the timeline and would have more value on another team so yeah moving on from them and giving Kuminga a punt for something reasonable like $25m per is fine with me.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1546 » by Jesus_H_Macy » Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:48 am

Please no Kuminga. Dude can't even shoot FTs let alone 3s
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1547 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:12 am

King4Day wrote:As for Kuminga. 4@ 100 mil.
Trade Allen & O'neal for him. I would think they could fit pretty well with the Warriors. Just a matter of, do the Warriors want those contracts. Both could help them but they are 3 years left each

Right now, Kuminga is more hype than substance. Even the Warriors know that which is why they don’t want to commit long term to him.

Every year the Warriors have had him, they post stories about how he is going to explode into a star. It’s never happened. I think the Warriors are finally at peace with what Kuminga is and that is a decent role player that sometimes they have to take off the court because of his poor decision making. They know it’s time to cut bait.

$20 a year for hype isn’t smart business.

BTW: Kuminga wants $25 million a year. Warriors have no interest in paying that nor should they.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-express-interest-in-sign-and-trade-with-jonathan-kuminga-as-warriors-forward-seeks-more-money-per-report/
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1548 » by sunsbum » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:22 am

For the position we are in, I don’t think an extra 5 million a year is overpay for a 23 y/o that could eventually put it together. How else are we going to squire young talent at this point
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1549 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:05 am

Everything I’m reading, GS has zero interest in anything we have left to trade. Pretty much the Warriors have already crossed off their potential dating list.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1550 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:21 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:Everything I’m reading, GS has zero interest in anything we have left to trade. Pretty much the Warriors have already crossed off their potential dating list.

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1551 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:34 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Depends on what he signs for. Like I'm not a big KumBucket fan. Yeah he's young, he's really athletic and plays good defense but not a great scorer, not a good shooter, not an elite rebounder at his position, and he fouls a lot.


Exactly this! The thing with Kuminga is he's a borderline poster child for unrealized potential. He's also expecting to get paid at least 25 million a year. Sure, he's not Patrick Williams or anything that bad, and he's still got immensely potential.

But if he never breaks through, then with that contract, he'll be viewed in a similar light as Jerami Grant or a slightly better value P Williams perhaps. It really does depend upon what ye signs for. I'm not at all completely opposed to the idea of acquiring him, but again, being fiscally responsible is paramount for our future.

Looking at the multi-year salaries on our books, Grayson and Royce makes a combined $27m next season, $29m the next and $31m in 2027. I think a deal for Kuminga at most will be a 4 year deal so it'll expire a year after in 2028. If we can get him for less than what those 2 make the next few years, I think it's a worthy gamble although one guy at almost $30m is probably harder to move than 1 guy at $11.6m for example.

I feel like we already have an expensive young, unproven guy on a big contract (Green), I'm not super keen to bring another onboard, especially when we already have Mark Williams' extension to look at next offseason as well. I'm not saying these guys are mediocre because they're not but for the money they're on or might be getting, we may have 3 of them on the roster by 2027.


Agreed!
The cumulative increases attached to any acquisitions, scale increases and extensions (Williams) are fairly concerning to me because now that we've chosen to anchor our books to almost 20 million+ in dead cap for the next half decade, this might be a very short duration for us to he below the LT apron or even possibly back over the 2nd apron rather quickly again.

And that'd mean (because we aren't seriously competing) that we stretched Beal and tied ourselves to that 20 million for essentially nothing competitively noteworthy. :-?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1552 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:50 am

We need a starting point guard badly so the whole "point book" fiasco doesn't have to be futilely repeated yet again. And it just so happens that the wizards are in need of a center and more vet depth with interest in becoming more competitive now.

I'm once again looking at an O'neale/ Richards/ CLE 27' 1st for Smart/ PHX 26' 2nd/DEN 28' 2nd. Marcus Smart is the perfect (22 million expiring contract) defensive/ playmaking guard that would ideally compliment Booker and allow him to play at his natural position as SG.

Smart can also mentor J Green defensively and our other young guys too. And then we can either let him expire for more cap flexibility, or bring him back on a cheaper contract as a starting stopgap option.

I'd try hard to turn that 27' 1st into another 2nd in the loaded 26' draft. Because the 27' draft is looking very, very weak in high end talent overall.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1553 » by Mr Puddles » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:14 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
King4Day wrote:As for Kuminga. 4@ 100 mil.
Trade Allen & O'neal for him. I would think they could fit pretty well with the Warriors. Just a matter of, do the Warriors want those contracts. Both could help them but they are 3 years left each

Right now, Kuminga is more hype than substance. Even the Warriors know that which is why they don’t want to commit long term to him.

Every year the Warriors have had him, they post stories about how he is going to explode into a star. It’s never happened. I think the Warriors are finally at peace with what Kuminga is and that is a decent role player that sometimes they have to take off the court because of his poor decision making. They know it’s time to cut bait.

$20 a year for hype isn’t smart business.

BTW: Kuminga wants $25 million a year. Warriors have no interest in paying that nor should they.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-express-interest-in-sign-and-trade-with-jonathan-kuminga-as-warriors-forward-seeks-more-money-per-report/


While you're right about everything you said, the Suns are in a position where the only way they can improve is to take flyers on high upside guys.

- We don't have picks to land a young prospect
- We don't have the capspace or the trade assets to acquire a proven star.

It looks like the team's strategy is to look at young guys who have underperformed relative to expectations, and hope that a change in scenery will help them reach their potential.

With Grayson and Royce, you know what you get.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1554 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:16 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:We need a starting point guard badly so the whole "point book" fiasco doesn't have to be futilely repeated yet again. And it just so happens that the wizards are in need of a center and more vet depth with interest in becoming more competitive now.

I'm once again looking at an O'neale/ Richards/ CLE 27' 1st for Smart/ PHX 26' 2nd/DEN 28' 2nd. Marcus Smart is the perfect (22 million expiring contract) defensive/ playmaking guard that would ideally compliment Booker and allow him to play at his natural position as SG.

Smart can also mentor J Green defensively and our other young guys too. And then we can either let him expire for more cap flexibility, or bring him back on a cheaper contract as a starting stopgap option.

I'd try hard to turn that 27' 1st into another 2nd in the loaded 26' draft. Because the 27' draft is looking very, very weak in high end talent overall.

I think most people here would love getting Marcus Smart. Problem is, Suns just don’t have any items left that pawn shops are interested in any more. We have used up all our credit with all the local pawn shops and loan sharks.

I’ve accepted that we have to deal with what we have. Upgrading the roster isn’t realistic at this point with the hole our owner has dug himself into. O’Neal, Richards and Allen have minimal value at best. The SG position is probably the easiest position to fill in the NBA right now because of the over abundance of quantity players at that position.

PG and Center are the hardest two positions to fill right now and teams that have them, know it. Nick Richards is probably our best tradable asset (because Booker is off the table by the decision of the owner).
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1555 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:19 am

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1556 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:20 am

Mr Puddles wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
King4Day wrote:As for Kuminga. 4@ 100 mil.
Trade Allen & O'neal for him. I would think they could fit pretty well with the Warriors. Just a matter of, do the Warriors want those contracts. Both could help them but they are 3 years left each

Right now, Kuminga is more hype than substance. Even the Warriors know that which is why they don’t want to commit long term to him.

Every year the Warriors have had him, they post stories about how he is going to explode into a star. It’s never happened. I think the Warriors are finally at peace with what Kuminga is and that is a decent role player that sometimes they have to take off the court because of his poor decision making. They know it’s time to cut bait.

$20 a year for hype isn’t smart business.

BTW: Kuminga wants $25 million a year. Warriors have no interest in paying that nor should they.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-express-interest-in-sign-and-trade-with-jonathan-kuminga-as-warriors-forward-seeks-more-money-per-report/


While you're right about everything you said, the Suns are in a position where the only way they can improve is to take flyers on high upside guys.

- We don't have picks to land a young prospect
- We don't have the capspace or the trade assets to acquire a proven star.

It looks like the team's strategy is to look at young guys who have underperformed relative to expectations, and hope that a change in scenery will help them reach their potential.

With Grayson and Royce, you know what you get.

And I agree with you. Problem is the Warriors already swiped passed O’Neal and Grayson on their Tinder account because they aren’t into them.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1557 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:20 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:We need a starting point guard badly so the whole "point book" fiasco doesn't have to be futilely repeated yet again. And it just so happens that the wizards are in need of a center and more vet depth with interest in becoming more competitive now.

I'm once again looking at an O'neale/ Richards/ CLE 27' 1st for Smart/ PHX 26' 2nd/DEN 28' 2nd. Marcus Smart is the perfect (22 million expiring contract) defensive/ playmaking guard that would ideally compliment Booker and allow him to play at his natural position as SG.

Smart can also mentor J Green defensively and our other young guys too. And then we can either let him expire for more cap flexibility, or bring him back on a cheaper contract as a starting stopgap option.

I'd try hard to turn that 27' 1st into another 2nd in the loaded 26' draft. Because the 27' draft is looking very, very weak in high end talent overall.


Green and Book are the starting guards. Gillispie and Allen are the backups. I could see Brea being moved from a two-way to a regular contract. Got rid of a guard redundancy with Beal ... don't need to create another problem adding Smart.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1558 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:22 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Exactly this! The thing with Kuminga is he's a borderline poster child for unrealized potential. He's also expecting to get paid at least 25 million a year. Sure, he's not Patrick Williams or anything that bad, and he's still got immensely potential.

But if he never breaks through, then with that contract, he'll be viewed in a similar light as Jerami Grant or a slightly better value P Williams perhaps. It really does depend upon what ye signs for. I'm not at all completely opposed to the idea of acquiring him, but again, being fiscally responsible is paramount for our future.

Looking at the multi-year salaries on our books, Grayson and Royce makes a combined $27m next season, $29m the next and $31m in 2027. I think a deal for Kuminga at most will be a 4 year deal so it'll expire a year after in 2028. If we can get him for less than what those 2 make the next few years, I think it's a worthy gamble although one guy at almost $30m is probably harder to move than 1 guy at $11.6m for example.

I feel like we already have an expensive young, unproven guy on a big contract (Green), I'm not super keen to bring another onboard, especially when we already have Mark Williams' extension to look at next offseason as well. I'm not saying these guys are mediocre because they're not but for the money they're on or might be getting, we may have 3 of them on the roster by 2027.


Agreed!
The cumulative increases attached to any acquisitions, scale increases and extensions (Williams) are fairly concerning to me because now that we've chosen to anchor our books to almost 20 million+ in dead cap for the next half decade, this might be a very short duration for us to he below the LT apron or even possibly back over the 2nd apron rather quickly again.

And that'd mean (because we aren't seriously competing) that we stretched Beal and tied ourselves to that 20 million for essentially nothing competitively noteworthy. :-?

If we're courting someone who wants $25-30m, I'd try and swoop in to grab Giddey from Chicago


“The sides, sources say, remain far apart, with the Australian point guard long known to be seeking a deal that pays in the $30 million range annually,” Fischer wrote. “This time, Giddey’s representation has not wavered in its pursuit of a $30 million annual salary, sources say, while the Bulls’ offers have been much closer to $20 million.”

Last season with the Bulls, he shot a career high 37.8% from the three on 4 attempts a game, averaged a career high 7.2 apg (career high 2.5 A:TO), a career high 8.1RPG, got to the line a career high 3.2 times a game and for the last 3 seasons has played at least 70 games. Also career high in efficiency, career high in VORP, career high in OBPM and DBPM, and for the first time in his career, he played the vast majority of his minutes at the PG position rather than on the wings or PF. And he's 4 days younger than Kuminga. If I'm taking another expensive gamble, I'd much rather throw my chips in with Giddey than Kuminga
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1559 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:24 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You know that point you get where you are so just over it, so you just laugh because it just cant get more dumb or worse. Ishbia is so bad, im just at the point i just laugh. His stupidity and ignorance is on the next level and im over it so im just gonna go straight to :lol:

Some people really dislike Beal. The way those people feel about Beal is how I feel about dip$hipbia. I dislike Ishbia with the power of a 1000 Suns! (Feel free to roast me on how I feel about Ishbia, but my feeling isn’t going to change. I’m Suns fan! Ishbia isn’t the Suns, he just happens to own and run the Suns right now).
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1560 » by KdoubleDees23 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:35 am

Grayson Allen, and a future 1st, and 2 seconds for Collin Sexton. Make it happen

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