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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1721 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Jul 18, 2025 11:11 am

Bernman wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Bernman wrote:Why didn't the Bucks buy out Dame? We could have even worked this out to where PDX agrees to pay him this salary before we bought him out for that difference, of 28 for the next 2 yrs, then stretched him. Gotten more cap & salary relief actually that way.


He'd have to agree to it, and we'd risk losing our element of surprise in the Turner deal.


Why wouldn't he agree to it, if he'd prefer to live/play in Portland, and the $ was equal? So that wasn't the issue.

They may have been going for element of surprise, but bidding against themselves. Turner got fair market value & only Brooklyn had real space. I don't think teams would have been scrambling for an s&t to pay him into the 30's, or do some big stretch like we did. Giannis sold him.


the money wouldnt have been equal. think about what your saying. he gets both full amounts this way. your suggesting we inform turner to wait around with the pacers while we negotiate with dame for a week about whether portland pays his salary or we do?

the whole league would have been mocking us while we tried to save a ridiculously small amount of cash in the grand scheme of things. horst struck like an assassin. the collateral damage was a few extra bucks
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1722 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:41 pm

Giddey, Grimes, Kuminga, and Cam Thomas all still un-signed and none of them appear to be anywhere close on contract terms with their respective clubs. Everyone seems to be holding out to see who blinks first, but this is gonna be something that they need to address in the next CBA. With so few cap space teams nowadays, all the non-max rookie extension guys are inevitably going to be held hostage like this going forward.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1723 » by Frank Nova » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:43 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:Hoping to hear more about a possible Devin Vassell trade.


:nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1724 » by raferfenix » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:58 pm

Highlights from Horst interview part 2 from Eric Nehm:

From an analytics perspective, I care a great deal about the data; you know that. You want a big enough sample size where it’s not a bet, but a certainty. I don’t know that we have that level of sample size on some of those lineups yet, but I will tell you that in the playoffs and throughout the course of the regular season, some of our highest net rating lineups, both because they were elite offensively and they were very good defensively, had AJ Green, Gary Trent, Giannis, Kevin Porter Jr. and Bobby Portis in them. And, in fact, the AJ, Gary, Kevin, and Giannis lineup, that four-man lineup, was as good as any four-man lineup against the Pacers the entire playoffs.


I think Gary Trent had his two best games of the season, maybe, in our two most important games of the season. In two closeout opportunities, the guy played unbelievable. And AJ Green was unbelievable also, and I think that says a lot about them. And don’t forget, these guys are 25, 26 years old, so they’re just entering their prime. And so I think the best is in front of those guys. I’m happy about them. They’re not just shooters. They’re tough, physical guys that can grind and defend, make a play off the bounce and those guys are going to be a lot better this year than they were last year.


we’ve already made the contact [with AJ Green about an extension]. AJ wants to be here, AJ wants to figure something out.


[KPJ is] another player that I think stepped up in the biggest moments in the playoffs. With no playoff experience, he came into a very hostile environment, pressure-loaded environment, and I thought was very, very good.

He plays well off of Giannis, and people forget that a few years ago he was one of the best catch-and-shoot 3-point shooters in the league. He’s big, he’s physical, he can create for himself, he can create for others and can make shots. And he grew defensively with us this year, and I think he’s very capable on that end.


Kyle was a target and nothing’s changed. I think Kyle gives us a chance to play fast, gives us a chance to be huge, play a lot of different big lineups. He’s a plus-plus defender at multiple positions and he’s a guy that offensively, when he plays with confidence and plays within the flow, is very impactful.

We still believe in Kyle. He struggled. He hadn’t been to the playoffs in a while either. And I thought he played great for us for most of the regular season after we acquired him and I think he struggled in the playoffs. And he would tell you that. Doc and I have already gone to L.A. to spend time with him. Doc’s gonna spend time with him again.

I think the biggest thing with Kyle is just getting the familiarity, working with our coaches in the off-season, being part of a training camp and just really building into a system where he understands where he’s gonna get his looks, how he can have his impact and where we can understand him better. He’s very, very good (at power forward). And so I think getting him more minutes at the four … is going to be helpful.

He’s a guy we believe in a lot, and I think he’s going to have a big year with us this year, just having continuity with a good team and a full offseason with a good team, which he hasn’t had in a while. So we’re excited for him.


I think our roster … is better suited for Taurean this year than it was last year. I think Taurean had a hell of a year for us.

He was one of the top five in the league in 3-point shooting. Again, a plus defender, a great professional, a great locker-room guy, just someone that you want to be part of your organization, but also can play. He played most of the year guarding ones and twos and being guarded by twos and threes and he should be like a wing-forward, like a three-four. And the way that our team is built now, he’s gonna have a lot more of those matchups.


I felt like it was a tough negotiation with [Bobby’s] agent, Mark Bartelstein, who I love in this business as much as anybody, and I thought we got to the right place. But it was a tough negotiation.

Bobby chose us. Bobby wasn’t short on options, but he wanted to be here.


People probably don’t think about it a lot, but Ryan had a decision midway through this season to play or not with a pretty serious shoulder situation and he played. That just shows you how tough he is and how committed he is. He played a good half of our season and in the playoffs with a pretty painful shoulder situation, which he’s gotten taken care of. It’s totally resolved. He is totally healthy now, and that alone I think is going to give him more confidence in fighting through screens defensively and taking hits offensively.

But he is a big guard that’s physical, that can shoot. He’s been coming on as a playmaker, can finish in traffic, and is a good defender on the ball, which we want. I say this all the time and I say this with affection because he is one of my favorite people and I think he’ll love this shout-out. he reminds me of George Hill. I think he has a George Hill-type career in front of him and that’s high, high praise in my opinion because G-Hill is one of the best people that I’ve been around.

For us to be able to invest in him, give him a deal that keeps him with us for a couple of years, it’s a bit of a bridge deal. He’s got a chance to outplay it, and we’ll take care of him, we hope to figure it out at the end, but it gives him some security that I think he’s earned. I think Ryan was an important pick-up for us. Doc was pushing for the Ryan pick-up. It’s something that we wanted to figure out.


I hope he takes this as an affectionate thing, and this is true, when I saw the idea of Cole Anthony, him being free and our chance to get him, I think he’s like a guard version of Bobby Portis. I think he can bring so much swag and energy to our team.

He’s capable of winning a game by himself any given night. And I think he’ll grow in our system having less possession-by-possession pressure on him playing with Giannis and playing in Doc’s system and Doc having been a point guard and being able to mentor him the way he has with Kevin Porter Jr. and Ryan Rollins.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6497810/2025/07/18/jon-horst-milwaukee-bucks-interview-exclusive-nba/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=6188822&source=dailyemail
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1725 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:01 pm

He's talking up Kuzma, I would expect a GM to do nothing else. I have no doubt he'll be moved when'/if the right deal comes along. Now or by the deadline.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1726 » by emunney » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:08 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Giddey, Grimes, Kuminga, and Cam Thomas all still un-signed and none of them appear to be anywhere close on contract terms with their respective clubs. Everyone seems to be holding out to see who blinks first, but this is gonna be something that they need to address in the next CBA. With so few cap space teams nowadays, all the non-max rookie extension guys are inevitably going to be held hostage like this going forward.


I feel like it will probably normalize over time, and we're just in this weird chaotic interregnum now where teams are still bound by many of the decisions they made either under the old CBA or before they fully recognized the consequences of the new one. But maybe this is how it is -- if so, could be an ugly negotiating period as the players aren't going to want to give anything up to 'fix' this and the owners are going to require them to make a trade-off somewhere.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1727 » by raferfenix » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:09 pm

Horst sure talked up the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups.

He also talked about Kuzma being a 4 and Prince playing way out of position (guarding 1’s and 2’s) last season too.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1728 » by Matches Malone » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:10 pm

Glad Horst is acknowledging the best net rating lineups. Hoping he can take that info and continue to hit Doc over the head with it, so we don't open the season with TP at the 2 and Kuz at the 3.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1729 » by Siefer » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:18 pm

Holding out hope Prince opens the wrong door before the season starts.

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1730 » by raferfenix » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:25 pm

Per Horst’s latest I think we’re negotiating tough on Kuzma trades.

Yes it very well could be posturing but Horst also doesn’t seem afraid to wait it out and just bench Kuz as a third string PF if it comes to that.

Green is for sure getting an extension it sounded like and GTJ is starting at the 3 reflected by analytics.

High praise comparing Rollins to George Hill think he’s going to play a lot. Saying Anthony could be like another Bobby caught my eye but that seemed more aspirational.

Either way if Horst / Doc are good with small ball we’ve got options.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1731 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:40 pm

I don't know what else you could realistically expect Horst to say. Thought those were some promising and insightful quotes while maintaining GM speak.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1732 » by machu46 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:46 pm

All the Horst stuff reads well to me. We'll have to wait and see how it actually looks on the court. In the very least, the AJ extension stuff sounds promising and I'm relieved to see him say Kuzma needs to play at the 4 more and Prince more at the 3.

Like he said, hopefully an off-season with the coaches, practicing with the players, etc. has Kuzma looking better this season. I'll still be fairly surprised if he's traded before the season begins

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1733 » by emunney » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:59 pm

raferfenix wrote:Highlights from Horst interview part 2 from Eric Nehm:

From an analytics perspective, I care a great deal about the data; you know that. You want a big enough sample size where it’s not a bet, but a certainty. I don’t know that we have that level of sample size on some of those lineups yet, but I will tell you that in the playoffs and throughout the course of the regular season, some of our highest net rating lineups, both because they were elite offensively and they were very good defensively, had AJ Green, Gary Trent, Giannis, Kevin Porter Jr. and Bobby Portis in them. And, in fact, the AJ, Gary, Kevin, and Giannis lineup, that four-man lineup, was as good as any four-man lineup against the Pacers the entire playoffs.


I think Gary Trent had his two best games of the season, maybe, in our two most important games of the season. In two closeout opportunities, the guy played unbelievable. And AJ Green was unbelievable also, and I think that says a lot about them. And don’t forget, these guys are 25, 26 years old, so they’re just entering their prime. And so I think the best is in front of those guys. I’m happy about them. They’re not just shooters. They’re tough, physical guys that can grind and defend, make a play off the bounce and those guys are going to be a lot better this year than they were last year.


we’ve already made the contact [with AJ Green about an extension]. AJ wants to be here, AJ wants to figure something out.


[KPJ is] another player that I think stepped up in the biggest moments in the playoffs. With no playoff experience, he came into a very hostile environment, pressure-loaded environment, and I thought was very, very good.

He plays well off of Giannis, and people forget that a few years ago he was one of the best catch-and-shoot 3-point shooters in the league. He’s big, he’s physical, he can create for himself, he can create for others and can make shots. And he grew defensively with us this year, and I think he’s very capable on that end.


Kyle was a target and nothing’s changed. I think Kyle gives us a chance to play fast, gives us a chance to be huge, play a lot of different big lineups. He’s a plus-plus defender at multiple positions and he’s a guy that offensively, when he plays with confidence and plays within the flow, is very impactful.

We still believe in Kyle. He struggled. He hadn’t been to the playoffs in a while either. And I thought he played great for us for most of the regular season after we acquired him and I think he struggled in the playoffs. And he would tell you that. Doc and I have already gone to L.A. to spend time with him. Doc’s gonna spend time with him again.

I think the biggest thing with Kyle is just getting the familiarity, working with our coaches in the off-season, being part of a training camp and just really building into a system where he understands where he’s gonna get his looks, how he can have his impact and where we can understand him better. He’s very, very good (at power forward). And so I think getting him more minutes at the four … is going to be helpful.

He’s a guy we believe in a lot, and I think he’s going to have a big year with us this year, just having continuity with a good team and a full offseason with a good team, which he hasn’t had in a while. So we’re excited for him.


I think our roster … is better suited for Taurean this year than it was last year. I think Taurean had a hell of a year for us.

He was one of the top five in the league in 3-point shooting. Again, a plus defender, a great professional, a great locker-room guy, just someone that you want to be part of your organization, but also can play. He played most of the year guarding ones and twos and being guarded by twos and threes and he should be like a wing-forward, like a three-four. And the way that our team is built now, he’s gonna have a lot more of those matchups.


I felt like it was a tough negotiation with [Bobby’s] agent, Mark Bartelstein, who I love in this business as much as anybody, and I thought we got to the right place. But it was a tough negotiation.

Bobby chose us. Bobby wasn’t short on options, but he wanted to be here.


People probably don’t think about it a lot, but Ryan had a decision midway through this season to play or not with a pretty serious shoulder situation and he played. That just shows you how tough he is and how committed he is. He played a good half of our season and in the playoffs with a pretty painful shoulder situation, which he’s gotten taken care of. It’s totally resolved. He is totally healthy now, and that alone I think is going to give him more confidence in fighting through screens defensively and taking hits offensively.

But he is a big guard that’s physical, that can shoot. He’s been coming on as a playmaker, can finish in traffic, and is a good defender on the ball, which we want. I say this all the time and I say this with affection because he is one of my favorite people and I think he’ll love this shout-out. he reminds me of George Hill. I think he has a George Hill-type career in front of him and that’s high, high praise in my opinion because G-Hill is one of the best people that I’ve been around.

For us to be able to invest in him, give him a deal that keeps him with us for a couple of years, it’s a bit of a bridge deal. He’s got a chance to outplay it, and we’ll take care of him, we hope to figure it out at the end, but it gives him some security that I think he’s earned. I think Ryan was an important pick-up for us. Doc was pushing for the Ryan pick-up. It’s something that we wanted to figure out.


I hope he takes this as an affectionate thing, and this is true, when I saw the idea of Cole Anthony, him being free and our chance to get him, I think he’s like a guard version of Bobby Portis. I think he can bring so much swag and energy to our team.

He’s capable of winning a game by himself any given night. And I think he’ll grow in our system having less possession-by-possession pressure on him playing with Giannis and playing in Doc’s system and Doc having been a point guard and being able to mentor him the way he has with Kevin Porter Jr. and Ryan Rollins.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6497810/2025/07/18/jon-horst-milwaukee-bucks-interview-exclusive-nba/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=6188822&source=dailyemail


Is it at all weird how many of our posts are echoed in these? Does Horst post here? <looks at hands frantically> AM I HORST
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1734 » by chonestown » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:08 pm

Call it naive, but I believe if Horts is talking as unambiguously about the KPJ-GTJ-AJ line-ups as he is here, that Glenn is on-board. Otherwise, this is a submarining of one against the other. The Kuz stuff is boilerplate "we like our guys" but he doesn't wave away the crapping the playoff bed part.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1735 » by CharityStripe34 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:09 pm

From an analytics perspective, I care a great deal about the data; you know that. You want a big enough sample size where it’s not a bet, but a certainty. I don’t know that we have that level of sample size on some of those lineups yet, but I will tell you that in the playoffs and throughout the course of the regular season, some of our highest net rating lineups, both because they were elite offensively and they were very good defensively, had AJ Green, Gary Trent, Giannis, Kevin Porter Jr. and Bobby Portis in them. And, in fact, the AJ, Gary, Kevin, and Giannis lineup, that four-man lineup, was as good as any four-man lineup against the Pacers the entire playoffs.


Translation: Hey, Doc, run more lineups like these and bring Prince and Kuzma off the bench. With Turner he can interchange with Bobby and Giannis. Plz thx.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1736 » by drew881 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:14 pm

emunney wrote:
Is it at all weird how many of our posts are echoed in these? Does Horst post here? <looks at hands frantically> AM I HORST


We need to plant the seeds on a player comparison narrative that is just so bizarre, but keep repeating it to see if it gets picked up.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1737 » by emunney » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:25 pm

drew881 wrote:
emunney wrote:
Is it at all weird how many of our posts are echoed in these? Does Horst post here? <looks at hands frantically> AM I HORST


We need to plant the seeds on a player comparison narrative that is just so bizarre, but keep repeating it to see if it gets picked up.


<f=21 canary trap activate>
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1738 » by chonestown » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:26 pm

drew881 wrote:
emunney wrote:
Is it at all weird how many of our posts are echoed in these? Does Horst post here? <looks at hands frantically> AM I HORST


We need to plant the seeds on a player comparison narrative that is just so bizarre, but keep repeating it to see if it gets picked up.


"Now with Markovic, we're excited to have him. Ultimately, we see him as a Logan Vander Velden-type where he's comfortable beyond the arc, but he loves mixing it up in the paint just like him, too. Cannot have too many of those guys."

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1739 » by Frank Nova » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:27 pm

Not sure how serious you can take someone that says they care about the data a lot but calls Kuzma a target and someone that gives the team a chance to create mismatch lineups and brings versatility to the team.

Please, oh please, someone post the data that Horst is referring to with Kuzma? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a lick of data you can find that proves Kuzma is a plus player that a winning team needs to thrive..

That’s frustrating. Unless, of course, I’m actually wrong and there is data somewhere that supports Kyle Kuzma? I’m betting against that, tho.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1740 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:37 pm

Frank Nova wrote:Not sure how serious you can take someone that says they care about the data a lot but calls Kuzma a target and someone that gives the team a chance to create mismatch lineups and brings versatility to the team.

Please, oh please, someone post the data that Horst is referring to with Kuzma? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a lick of data you can find that proves Kuzma is a plus player that a winning team needs to thrive..

That’s frustrating. Unless, of course, I’m actually wrong and there is data somewhere that supports Kyle Kuzma? I’m betting against that, tho.


I thought he was fair with Kuzma. On the optimistic side, but fair.

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