Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[SfBull]

Except for improving every season.

Good call.

How??If he was that good the FO wouldn't be bringing players for taking his playing time like Matas and now Okoro?
No, he's just another bust and a very expensive one.It should be clear by now

What are you even saying? You think Matas and Okoro are going to be taking Giddey's playing time? They're duplicate players in the same role and position? Please define how Giddey is already a bust. I feel like you're just trolling at this point.

Never said that about Giddey,I was talking about PWill

[Dan Z]

Is anyone okay with Giddey leaving?

Depends on how he leaves.

If it's via a S&T to another team that's willing to give him what he's after, it would also depend on what the Bulls got back.

No team is going to outright sign him this offseason, as no one has the money.

So that leaves next offseason which means he's taken the QO this year. Losing him for nothing would suck.

With all that said, I don't think any of them happen, Giddey will be resigned, whether that's long or short term IDK, but he'll be back.

I agree with you. I don't really think he leaves.

I asked the question more to ask what happens if he leaves. In some ways it would suck because he;s basically the driving force going forward, but I also think that if he leaves that means the team will be bad and potentially get a top pick in 2026.

[SfBull]

Except for improving every season.

Good call.

How??If he was that good the FO wouldn't be bringing players for taking his playing time like Matas and now Okoro?
No, he's just another bust and a very expensive one.It should be clear by now

No. If he was that bad, the Bulls braintrust wouldn't have given him 5/$90M.

He is the future of this franchise. Accept it. Embrace it.

I'll accept your post as another piece of sarcasm

[Muzbar]

Is anyone okay with Giddey leaving?

Depends on how he leaves.

If it's via a S&T to another team that's willing to give him what he's after, it would also depend on what the Bulls got back.

No team is going to outright sign him this offseason, as no one has the money.

So that leaves next offseason which means he's taken the QO this year. Losing him for nothing would suck.

With all that said, I don't think any of them happen, Giddey will be resigned, whether that's long or short term IDK, but he'll be back.

I agree with you. I don't really think he leaves.

I asked the question more to ask what happens if he leaves. In some ways it would suck because he;s basically the driving force going forward, but I also think that if he leaves that means the team will be bad and potentially get a top pick in 2026.

If Giddey leaving meant the Bulls would be guaranteed to draft Darryn Peterson. I would be absolutely fine with Giddey leaving.

[Stratmaster]

Would be totally fine with him leaving tbh. Even though we won't, I would tank hard, grab one of the potential franchise cornerstones in the next draft and build around Matas, Noa, and 2026 draft pick.

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

[Stratmaster]

Bulls should offer a declining 5 year deal with max 8% decreases starting at 30 mil, team option on year 5. He gets his "30 mil" wish in the most team advantageous way possible.

So now your number is 24 mil AAV? You have been all over the place my friend.

[nomorezorro]

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

how many teams do you think would trade a possible top-five pick in next year's draft for the chance to pay josh giddey

[League Circles]

Bulls should offer a declining 5 year deal with max 8% decreases starting at 30 mil, team option on year 5. He gets his "30 mil" wish in the most team advantageous way possible.

So now your number is 24 mil AAV? You have been all over the place my friend.

My high number is different than what I'd offer him right now.

I would offer him the 5 year decreasing starting at 30 mil right now especially if your math is right that that's 24 AAV.

Then if there is no movement, a day or two before the October 1st QO deadline, I'd go higher, probably in a two step process with an absolute max of 30 mil AAV, and in that case I'd push hard for a 5 year deal maybe flat with team option for year 5.

But if the market changes and he somehow got an offer sheet I'd probably match up to like 35 AAV.

So that's why I'm all over the place.

[dougthonus]

Meh. I can't and wouldn't argue your logic. I just don't think it would be to the level difference you do. I hope teams leave Josh wide open for 3's if he can hit them at 40٪ (40% on just the wide open ones).

Besides. If the Bulls are having to set up offense in the half court like that most of the time, they have failed out of the gate. It's run and gun, remember?

EDITED to correct the damned autofill mistakes

FWIW, I wasn't arguing this is a necessary requirement for him to be a good player. I described this as the "Giddey becomes a max player" path. No matter how much run and gun you are though, you are going to still need a good half court game at the end of the day too.

Yeah I don't know why the max word is being used by anyone. I don't think anyone believes he should be paid the max based on 1/2 a season of elite play. It's been an interesting thread. 22 mil here, 25 mil there, 30 mil for me and now max?

I don't think it is likely he improves to that level, and clearly we could get him now at 30, so we definitely won't pay it. It was more just a loose thought about what max upside would look like.

[Stratmaster]

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

how many teams do you think would trade a possible top-five pick in next year's draft for the chance to pay josh giddey

That question has nothing to do with what I stated. It would depend on numerous factors. And it assumes the team already has a top 5 pick. If the idea is the Bulls just let Giddey go and this would make them horrible, they could go for the big tank, and would get a top 5 pick that is insane. There is no guarantee they get a top 5 pick. They have to be bad enough and then lucky enough. Then they have to pick the right player. Then that player has to pan out, which, unless it is "that guy" generational talent will take multiple seasons to assess with a low probability the player turns out to be more than a fringe all-star.

To my point, and to turn your question around, here are the top 5 players who were just drafted. Which one of them do you think can achieve the level of play Giddey did the 2nd half of last season?

Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, Kneuppel, Bailey

Flagg is the big deal here, right? Worse shooter than Giddey and against college talent never approached the kind of numbers Giddey hit in the 2nd half of the season.
Harper...exact same story and has no defensive creds like Flagg does
Edgecombe?
Kneuppel? A 3&D guy who could never be a top 3 core player on a team
Ace Bailey- If this guy finds some BBIQ I actually like his chances as much as anyone other than Flagg. But that would be a huge bet on his ceiling.

So yeah. If I needed to fill the point position I would trade any of those players except Flagg for Giddey. Because even though it was only half a season, Gideey has at least actually played at a higher level in the NBA than any of these guys played at in college, and he is only 22.

[Stratmaster]

Bulls should offer a declining 5 year deal with max 8% decreases starting at 30 mil, team option on year 5. He gets his "30 mil" wish in the most team advantageous way possible.

So now your number is 24 mil AAV? You have been all over the place my friend.

My high number is different than what I'd offer him right now.

I would offer him the 5 year decreasing starting at 30 mil right now especially if your math is right that that's 24 AAV.

Then if there is no movement, a day or two before the October 1st QO deadline, I'd go higher, probably in a two step process with an absolute max of 30 mil AAV, and in that case I'd push hard for a 5 year deal maybe flat with team option for year 5.

But if the market changes and he somehow got an offer sheet I'd probably match up to like 35 AAV.

So that's why I'm all over the place.

I was more worried about when you said the Bulls should feel fine offering him 20 AAV

[ChettheJet]

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

how many teams do you think would trade a possible top-five pick in next year's draft for the chance to pay josh giddey

What's insane is an NBA team throwing away an entire season for the chance to maybe draft a single player. You run the risk of a Achilles or hamstring or a broken thumb so your dream kid misses the season or goes down in the tournament and your plan just went out the window

[League Circles]

So now your number is 24 mil AAV? You have been all over the place my friend.

My high number is different than what I'd offer him right now.

I would offer him the 5 year decreasing starting at 30 mil right now especially if your math is right that that's 24 AAV.

Then if there is no movement, a day or two before the October 1st QO deadline, I'd go higher, probably in a two step process with an absolute max of 30 mil AAV, and in that case I'd push hard for a 5 year deal maybe flat with team option for year 5.

But if the market changes and he somehow got an offer sheet I'd probably match up to like 35 AAV.

So that's why I'm all over the place.

I was more worried about when you said the Bulls should feel fine offering him 20 AAV

In a sense I still agree with that. I don't think anyone should feel that that's insulting, but I also don't think it would go anywhere. It's not obvious to me that either side has made a super specific proposal to the other side yet, like extended formal offers or assurances of what would get it done. If it happens to be the case that no formal offer has been extended yet, I don't think 5/100 is an insane place to start, but I don't think it's a productive place to start either. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's automatically a bad idea to lowball Josh in this way and then just sit and wait for his agent to make specific counter-offers.

[League Circles]

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

how many teams do you think would trade a possible top-five pick in next year's draft for the chance to pay josh giddey

Well all first round picks are possibly top 5, and probably none are likely top 5. It's not really very possible to make that trade now cause a bunch of salary would have to come back in return for Josh which changes the calculus a lot, but every team that doesn't have a good point to run their offense and could integrate one that isn't a good defender or shooter should absolutely be looking to trade their "first round pick" for Giddey if that could somehow be done.

[Stratmaster]

My high number is different than what I'd offer him right now.

I would offer him the 5 year decreasing starting at 30 mil right now especially if your math is right that that's 24 AAV.

Then if there is no movement, a day or two before the October 1st QO deadline, I'd go higher, probably in a two step process with an absolute max of 30 mil AAV, and in that case I'd push hard for a 5 year deal maybe flat with team option for year 5.

But if the market changes and he somehow got an offer sheet I'd probably match up to like 35 AAV.

So that's why I'm all over the place.

I was more worried about when you said the Bulls should feel fine offering him 20 AAV

In a sense I still agree with that. I don't think anyone should feel that that's insulting, but I also don't think it would go anywhere. It's not obvious to me that either side has made a super specific proposal to the other side yet, like extended formal offers or assurances of what would get it done. If it happens to be the case that no formal offer has been extended yet, I don't think 5/100 is an insane place to start, but I don't think it's a productive place to start either. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's automatically a bad idea to lowball Josh in this way and then just sit and wait for his agent to make specific counter-offers.

I think we are coming to the same point. Here is where I am at. 20 mil, is as you said, an "unproductive" starting point. If they start at 22 or 23, and can get him for 24 or 25 with both sides being happy, that would be great. More likely they settle at 27 or 28. But hell, I am just an outsider looking in. I just fear that because of past bad decisions AKME is going to try to prove a point, make a stand, show the world how savvy they are. Regardless I think a deal gets done. I would just like both sides to be able to move forward with a good taste in their mouth.

[Stratmaster]

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

how many teams do you think would trade a possible top-five pick in next year's draft for the chance to pay josh giddey

Well all first round picks are possibly top 5, and probably none are likely top 5. It's not really very possible to make that trade now cause a bunch of salary would have to come back in return for Josh which changes the calculus a lot, but every team that doesn't have a good point to run their offense and could integrate one that isn't a good defender or shooter should absolutely be looking to trade their "first round pick" for Giddey if that could somehow be done.

And, FWIW, this conversation started when I responded to 2 comments that gave the opinion it wouldn't be horrible if the Bulls "lost" Giddey for nothing in return because then they could tank for a top draft pick. I try not to use superlatives like "insane". I really do. But that thought process is pretty far out there.

[ghostinthepost1]

The history of taking the QO isn't great which is why ultimately a deal is going to get done.

Read on Twitter

[sco]

The history of taking the QO isn't great which is why ultimately a deal is going to get done.

Read on Twitter

I wonder if any of their agents are still in the biz? Other than the lack of economic protection, in most circumstances you are putting the team in a position where it benefits them to play you less.

[Bulliever2020]

Would be totally fine with him leaving tbh. Even though we won't, I would tank hard, grab one of the potential franchise cornerstones in the next draft and build around Matas, Noa, and 2026 draft pick.

See... this is insane. The likelihood of any draft pick being better than Giddey is very low, and Giddey is 22.

It's not going to happen so it is not worth even discussing but bottom line is I don't believe Giddey is going to be a top 3 player on a championship team and I don't think he can be a guy who is effective without the ball in his hands. I also think unless we get him on a very team friendly contract he would be tough to trade because he is so hard to build around with his deficiencies. Like Bob Seger said, I'm a Ramblin Gamblin Man so I'd be fine rolling the dice trying to get a franchise player in the draft who would set us up for realistic championship aspirations than take my chances with Giddey. You don't agree and that's fine.

[dpucane]

rumor on twitter that it's 4/110