Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[SWedd523]

There are also plenty of examples in the league today where guys are stars despite not being athletic.

Steph
Joker
Luka

We are in an era where skill is really important.

Probably the most offensively gifted Center of all time, probably the most offensively gifted wing of all time, and the best shooter of all time.

Seems like good company to slot Kon into.


Oh yeah, and all three get targeted on defense as well, but let's breeze past that.

[luciano-davidwesley]

I think it's easier to teach defensive effort and fundamentals than it is to teach someone to be a better athlete, so there's that

Kai Jones says hi.

3 years in and he had no idea how to play or where to be.

Well there you go, that ends the discussion once and for all.

By all means drafting the Kai Jones's of the world is how to do it right?

Jumps high and long, jumps high and long.

[SWedd523]

Kai Jones says hi.

3 years in and he had no idea how to play or where to be.

Well there you go, that ends the discussion once and for all.

By all means drafting the Kai Jones's of the world is how to do it right?

Jumps high and long, jumps high and long.

Just so we're clear, you're equating Tre Johnson to Kai Jones? I truly appreciate the insight.

[KembaWalker]

i dont think anyone that hates the Kon pick thinks hes just a total trash player, thats a strawman, nobody thinks he's a g leaguer or that he wasnt capable of putting up that game last night;.

its simply the draft philosophy and being consistent about it. the point of these extended tanks where youre purposely not addressing blatant team crippling weaknesses like we have been (previously at PG, now at C) has always been to get those gamebreaking players. i dont think anyone whos being logically consistent can celebrate both the Tidjane pick last year (at the time) and the Kon pick this year. if the need for game-ready steady connecting players between Melo and Brandon is so great that we use our premier offseason asset to address it then we should have addressed it last year. its inconsistent to be waffling from year to year about how we need to be drafting for talent not fit (swinging for homeruns seems to be the favorite phrase) then pivoting to loving a good fit connector piece

[Chapelchilla]

Well there you go, that ends the discussion once and for all.

By all means drafting the Kai Jones's of the world is how to do it right?

Jumps high and long, jumps high and long.

Just so we're clear, you're equating Tre Johnson to Kai Jones? I truly appreciate the insight.

Why so rude?

[SWedd523]

By all means drafting the Kai Jones's of the world is how to do it right?

Jumps high and long, jumps high and long.

Just so we're clear, you're equating Tre Johnson to Kai Jones? I truly appreciate the insight.

Why so rude?

I wasn't the smart aleck cherry picking false equivalencies for the sake of starting an argument

I'm also not the one trying to backseat moderate, yet here we are

[Chapelchilla]

You're going out of your way to talk down to multiple people because they don't also think Kon is awful or whatever. No need for that hostile energy. You are not any smarter at this then anybody else and you are being a jerk for no reason.

[SWedd523]

You're going out of your way to talk down to multiple people because they don't also think Kon is awful or whatever. No need for that hostile energy. You are not any smarter at this then anybody else and you are being a jerk for no reason.

I gave a serious response to a point about defense and LDW went out of his way to talk down to me with a smarmy remark about Kai Jones that has nothing to do with Kon, Tre, or the discussion at hand.

Yet I'm the jerk with hostile energy. Strange. It's almost like you're only acting offended because my remarks are anti-Kon in nature.

You're in luck though. You have options:

1. Report the post you think violates the board CoC and let the mods do their job
2. Ignore the posts you don't like reading
3. Block the users you don't like engaging with

What I can assure you nobody needs is option 4. gaslighting someone on behalf of a third party and trying to force the mods into action

[Emhoward]

i dont think anyone that hates the Kon pick thinks hes just a total trash player, thats a strawman, nobody thinks he's a g leaguer or that he wasnt capable of putting up that game last night;.

its simply the draft philosophy and being consistent about it. the point of these extended tanks where youre purposely not addressing blatant team crippling weaknesses like we have been (previously at PG, now at C) has always been to get those gamebreaking players. i dont think anyone whos being logically consistent can celebrate both the Tidjane pick last year (at the time) and the Kon pick this year. if the need for game-ready steady connecting players between Melo and Brandon is so great that we use our premier offseason asset to address it then we should have addressed it last year. its inconsistent to be waffling from year to year about how we need to be drafting for talent not fit (swinging for homeruns seems to be the favorite phrase) then pivoting to loving a good fit connector piece

I don't disagree with this, which is why I didn't like the Kon pick. But I will acknowledge, there may have been NO gamebreaking players in this draft past pick 3.

[KembaWalker]

i dont think anyone that hates the Kon pick thinks hes just a total trash player, thats a strawman, nobody thinks he's a g leaguer or that he wasnt capable of putting up that game last night;.

its simply the draft philosophy and being consistent about it. the point of these extended tanks where youre purposely not addressing blatant team crippling weaknesses like we have been (previously at PG, now at C) has always been to get those gamebreaking players. i dont think anyone whos being logically consistent can celebrate both the Tidjane pick last year (at the time) and the Kon pick this year. if the need for game-ready steady connecting players between Melo and Brandon is so great that we use our premier offseason asset to address it then we should have addressed it last year. its inconsistent to be waffling from year to year about how we need to be drafting for talent not fit (swinging for homeruns seems to be the favorite phrase) then pivoting to loving a good fit connector piece

I don't disagree with this, which is why I didn't like the Kon pick. But I will acknowledge, there may have been NO gamebreaking players in this draft past pick 3.

its possible. we were told it was supposed to be a pretty strong draft, maybe not 2003 but also not a 2024 or what theyre saying about 27. we'll find out eventually, but if there was a team who id say is qualified to make that call with any confidence itd certainly not be this one

[Chapelchilla]

You're going out of your way to talk down to multiple people because they don't also think Kon is awful or whatever. No need for that hostile energy. You are not any smarter at this then anybody else and you are being a jerk for no reason.

I gave a serious response to a point about defense and LDW went out of his way to talk down to me with a smarmy remark about Kai Jones that has nothing to do with Kon, Tre, or the discussion at hand.

Yet I'm the jerk with hostile energy. Strange. It's almost like you're only acting offended because my remarks are anti-Kon in nature.

You're in luck though. You have options:

1. Report the post you think violates the board CoC and let the mods do their job
2. Ignore the posts you don't like reading
3. Block the users you don't like engaging with

What I can assure you nobody needs is option 4. gaslighting someone on behalf of a third party and trying to force the mods into action

Or, take no junk from a guy who went out of his way to try to make me look stupid, got proved wrong and couldn't let it go?
Don't try to manage my affairs or tell me to cry to the mods, I haven't done anything to you and I don't need your validation.
Chill Bro, or continue being rude whenever someone doesn't co-sign your opinion's. That's gonna really win people over.
Kon is likely to not be a bust, people can like him without being wrong. You aren't the victim, your the aggressor.

[JMAC3]

You're going out of your way to talk down to multiple people because they don't also think Kon is awful or whatever. No need for that hostile energy. You are not any smarter at this then anybody else and you are being a jerk for no reason.

I gave a serious response to a point about defense and LDW went out of his way to talk down to me with a smarmy remark about Kai Jones that has nothing to do with Kon, Tre, or the discussion at hand.

Yet I'm the jerk with hostile energy. Strange. It's almost like you're only acting offended because my remarks are anti-Kon in nature.

You're in luck though. You have options:

1. Report the post you think violates the board CoC and let the mods do their job
2. Ignore the posts you don't like reading
3. Block the users you don't like engaging with

What I can assure you nobody needs is option 4. gaslighting someone on behalf of a third party and trying to force the mods into action

Or, take no junk from a guy who went out of his way to try to make me look stupid, got proved wrong and couldn't let it go?
Don't try to manage my affairs or tell me to cry to the mods, I haven't done anything to you and I don't need your validation.
Chill Bro, or continue being rude whenever someone doesn't co-sign your opinion's. That's gonna really win people over.
Kon is likely to not be a bust, people can like him without being wrong. You aren't the victim, your the aggressor.

Who is saying he is a bust tho? It feels like the narrative is being spun by Pro-Kon posters.

He doesn't have to be a complete bust to be a bad pick at 4th overall. If that is the bar people are setting to decide if the Hornets made a good pick then they need to re-evaluate their process.

If we took Liam 4th overall would we also be happy with the pick because he doesn't look like a bust after 2 summer league games?

[GoBobs]

There are also plenty of examples in the league today where guys are stars despite not being athletic.

Steph
Joker
Luka

We are in an era where skill is really important.

Probably the most offensively gifted Center of all time, probably the most offensively gifted wing of all time, and the best shooter of all time.

Seems like good company to slot Kon into.


Oh yeah, and all three get targeted on defense as well, but let's breeze past that.

I am just saying the fact that he is not a uber athlete doesn't limit his ceiling if there are three all time greats playing right now with the same problem.

His floor is Joe Ingles though, and that is a damn good player if you are going to run a 3pt spam offense.

The hardest things to find in a young player are shooting and consistency. We are very lucky to have three young guys I believe are great shooters.

[JMAC3]

Kon averaging 13.3 ppg, 5.3rpg and 4.8 apg.
Shooting 42/33/67%

[driveandkick]

I gave a serious response to a point about defense and LDW went out of his way to talk down to me with a smarmy remark about Kai Jones that has nothing to do with Kon, Tre, or the discussion at hand.

Yet I'm the jerk with hostile energy. Strange. It's almost like you're only acting offended because my remarks are anti-Kon in nature.

You're in luck though. You have options:

1. Report the post you think violates the board CoC and let the mods do their job
2. Ignore the posts you don't like reading
3. Block the users you don't like engaging with

What I can assure you nobody needs is option 4. gaslighting someone on behalf of a third party and trying to force the mods into action

Or, take no junk from a guy who went out of his way to try to make me look stupid, got proved wrong and couldn't let it go?
Don't try to manage my affairs or tell me to cry to the mods, I haven't done anything to you and I don't need your validation.
Chill Bro, or continue being rude whenever someone doesn't co-sign your opinion's. That's gonna really win people over.
Kon is likely to not be a bust, people can like him without being wrong. You aren't the victim, your the aggressor.

Who is saying he is a bust tho? It feels like the narrative is being spun by Pro-Kon posters.

He doesn't have to be a complete bust to be a bad pick at 4th overall. If that is the bar people are setting to decide if the Hornets made a good pick then they need to re-evaluate their process.

If we took Liam 4th overall would we also be happy with the pick because he doesn't look like a bust after 2 summer league games?

So I keep seeing this point a lot. “Kon might not complete bust but that doesn’t mean he won’t be a bad pick.” Last 15 #4 overall picks:

Kon
Steph Castle
Amen Thompson
Keegan Murray
Scottie Barnes
Patrick Williams
Deandre Hunter
JJJ
Josh Jackson
Dragan Bender
Kristaps Porzingis
Aaron Gordon
Cody Zeller
Dion Waiters
Tristan Thompson

There are zero straight up super stars on this list. JJJ I would call a star, Barnes is really good, Kristaps was headed there early before injuries. Other than that? Interestingly enough maybe the most valuable player after JJJ on this list is Aaron Gordon, and his value is tied to being the ultimate glue guy that just helps you win games. Early returns on Amen and Castle are promising, but both still have major shooting struggles.

I know we’re all waiting on some William Wallace effort to change our fortunes. Just getting that one guy that’s so freaking good not even the dreadful Charlotte Hornets can hold him back. I think a lot of people are saying Kon has a strong chance to be a “bad” pick because he’ll never be that guy.

This just seems deeply unfair to Kon. The last true superstar to go #4 was Russell Westbrook almost 20 years. It seems mad unfair to ever label Kon a bad pick because he doesn’t reach heights like that, because historically it’s super rare to find that even at #4 overall.

Let’s say nightmare scenario unfolds. Because honestly considering it’s the Charlotte Hornets that’s probably what will happen. Let’s say Ace does become a star (extremely skeptical of this but anything can happen) and Kon just hits a median outcome where he’s still one of the best shooters in the league and productive connective tissue piece for anyone. I STILL don’t think that would mean Kon was a bad pick at #4 when we consider the history of this pick and what you can expect to get here.

I truly do understand wanting to keep swinging for the fences until we find that guy, it absolutely makes sense given our current situation and history. But I also see why we’re really really trying to at least stop being an absolute and complete embarrassment right now.

[JMAC3]

Or, take no junk from a guy who went out of his way to try to make me look stupid, got proved wrong and couldn't let it go?
Don't try to manage my affairs or tell me to cry to the mods, I haven't done anything to you and I don't need your validation.
Chill Bro, or continue being rude whenever someone doesn't co-sign your opinion's. That's gonna really win people over.
Kon is likely to not be a bust, people can like him without being wrong. You aren't the victim, your the aggressor.

Who is saying he is a bust tho? It feels like the narrative is being spun by Pro-Kon posters.

He doesn't have to be a complete bust to be a bad pick at 4th overall. If that is the bar people are setting to decide if the Hornets made a good pick then they need to re-evaluate their process.

If we took Liam 4th overall would we also be happy with the pick because he doesn't look like a bust after 2 summer league games?

So I keep seeing this point a lot. “Kon might not complete bust but that doesn’t mean he won’t be a bad pick.” Last 15 #4 overall picks:

Kon
Steph Castle
Amen Thompson
Keegan Murray
Scottie Barnes
Patrick Williams
Deandre Hunter
JJJ
Josh Jackson
Dragan Bender
Kristaps Porzingis
Aaron Gordon
Cody Zeller
Dion Waiters
Tristan Thompson

There are zero straight up super stars on this list. JJJ I would call a star, Barnes is really good, Kristaps was headed there early before injuries. Other than that? Interestingly enough maybe the most valuable player after JJJ on this list is Aaron Gordon, and his value is tied to being the ultimate glue guy that just helps you win games. Early returns on Amen and Castle are promising, but both still have major shooting struggles.

I know we’re all waiting on some William Wallace effort to change our fortunes. Just getting that one guy that’s so freaking good not even the dreadful Charlotte Hornets can hold him back. I think a lot of people are saying Kon has a strong chance to be a “bad” pick because he’ll never be that guy.

This just seems deeply unfair to Kon. The last true superstar to go #4 was Russell Westbrook almost 20 years. It seems mad unfair to ever label Kon a bad pick because he doesn’t reach heights like that, because historically it’s super rare to find that even at #4 overall.

Let’s say nightmare scenario unfolds. Because honestly considering it’s the Charlotte Hornets that’s probably what will happen. Let’s say Ace does become a star (extremely skeptical of this but anything can happen) and Kon just hits a median outcome where he’s still one of the best shooters in the league and productive connective tissue piece for anyone. I STILL don’t think that would mean Kon was a bad pick at #4 when we consider the history of this pick and what you can expect to get here.

I truly do understand wanting to keep swinging for the fences until we find that guy, it absolutely makes sense given our current situation and history. But I also see why we’re really really trying to at least stop being an absolute and complete embarrassment right now.

Rank the last 5 #4 picks in order of who you would have moving forward. Kon, Castle, Amen, Keegan and Barnes.

[MasterIchiro]

Kon averaging 13.3 ppg, 5.3rpg and 4.8 apg.
Shooting 42/33/67%

It's a realistic line to shoot for, for his second season in the NBA.

[Chapelchilla]

Kon averaging 13.3 ppg, 5.3rpg and 4.8 apg.
Shooting 42/33/67%

It's a realistic line to shoot for, for his second season in the NBA.

Depends on if Sexton stays and he gets the starting job in a year. His shooting numbers will probably be higher either way.

[driveandkick]

Who is saying he is a bust tho? It feels like the narrative is being spun by Pro-Kon posters.

He doesn't have to be a complete bust to be a bad pick at 4th overall. If that is the bar people are setting to decide if the Hornets made a good pick then they need to re-evaluate their process.

If we took Liam 4th overall would we also be happy with the pick because he doesn't look like a bust after 2 summer league games?

So I keep seeing this point a lot. “Kon might not complete bust but that doesn’t mean he won’t be a bad pick.” Last 15 #4 overall picks:

Kon
Steph Castle
Amen Thompson
Keegan Murray
Scottie Barnes
Patrick Williams
Deandre Hunter
JJJ
Josh Jackson
Dragan Bender
Kristaps Porzingis
Aaron Gordon
Cody Zeller
Dion Waiters
Tristan Thompson

There are zero straight up super stars on this list. JJJ I would call a star, Barnes is really good, Kristaps was headed there early before injuries. Other than that? Interestingly enough maybe the most valuable player after JJJ on this list is Aaron Gordon, and his value is tied to being the ultimate glue guy that just helps you win games. Early returns on Amen and Castle are promising, but both still have major shooting struggles.

I know we’re all waiting on some William Wallace effort to change our fortunes. Just getting that one guy that’s so freaking good not even the dreadful Charlotte Hornets can hold him back. I think a lot of people are saying Kon has a strong chance to be a “bad” pick because he’ll never be that guy.

This just seems deeply unfair to Kon. The last true superstar to go #4 was Russell Westbrook almost 20 years. It seems mad unfair to ever label Kon a bad pick because he doesn’t reach heights like that, because historically it’s super rare to find that even at #4 overall.

Let’s say nightmare scenario unfolds. Because honestly considering it’s the Charlotte Hornets that’s probably what will happen. Let’s say Ace does become a star (extremely skeptical of this but anything can happen) and Kon just hits a median outcome where he’s still one of the best shooters in the league and productive connective tissue piece for anyone. I STILL don’t think that would mean Kon was a bad pick at #4 when we consider the history of this pick and what you can expect to get here.

I truly do understand wanting to keep swinging for the fences until we find that guy, it absolutely makes sense given our current situation and history. But I also see why we’re really really trying to at least stop being an absolute and complete embarrassment right now.

Rank the last 5 #4 picks in order of who you would have moving forward. Kon, Castle, Amen, Keegan and Barnes.

This is a fun exercise because I think if you polled all 30 teams this exact question you’d get a really really diverse mixture of responses. Barnes is probably the most valuable player on this list right? Even he isn’t really a shooter.

Do I have plenty of shooting and want to add an elite defender into my roster? If so Castle, Barnes, and Amen are all welcome additions.

Do I need more shooters/offensive creators? Then Kon makes sense or maybe even Keegan too.

Either way none of these 5 players are a guy you build a championship team around. They almost all share a similarity in that their ideal role is as a glue guy who excels at a few things on the court but still has weaknesses elsewhere. This is basically proving my point though. One of the biggest complaints with drafting Kon is that he’s never going to be a superstar, even though recent draft history basically suggests that a high end glue guy is about the best you can hope for at #4 overall.

[MasterIchiro]

Kon averaging 13.3 ppg, 5.3rpg and 4.8 apg.
Shooting 42/33/67%

It's a realistic line to shoot for, for his second season in the NBA.

Depends on if Sexton stays and he gets the starting job in a year. His shooting numbers will probably be higher either way.

Nice to have Bird Rights to a starting SG in his prime who can take heat off our feature player, so I would hope the intention is to retain Sexton.

As much as I like Kon for LaMelo, and Knueppel will see some time alongside Ball even if Kon doesn't start, I feel confident about the chemistry between Mann - Kon - Liam off the bench, with only 2 years max waiting out Green. Ideally, we dump Green sooner. I have his contract at negative value right now.

Edit: and if Sexton signs 3 years beyond this one, both Kon and Liam should have an open lane to starting with LaMelo and Miller. Kon doesn't automatically get the job for being pick 4 instead of 29. Let Liam and Kon push eachother.

We should know enough about them before they reach restricted free agency.