Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

With Kuminga’s talent he should be the fourth best warrior at plus minus if he played right.
By basing his pay and guaranteed minutes on plus minus Kuminga if he has any maturity at all would understand that he is responsible for his own success, and must learn to improve his plus minus if he wants to get what he wants. Comingo is 13th on the team and plus minus this last year so he has no the bitch about but himself. The legendary Gui Santos and Legendary Quinten Post had better plus minuses than Kuminga. Who you play with matters for plus minus but did Quinton post and we Santos play more with Korean Draymond then Kuminga did?

Heavily incentive-based contract is not a bad idea. But would Kerr be cool with guaranteed minutes? I think he'd push back on that restriction. Based on how bad Kuminga's agent appears to be, they'd probably write into the contract "average at least 30 minutes/game", then Kerr would play him 31 minutes in the first game and sit him on the bench for the rest of the year.

. In my thinking minutes guarantee gets waived if Kuminga’s plus minus per minute is not better than 60% of his teammates. So Kuminga would be competing against his teammates in plus minus to get playing time as every player is already doing informally But we take the decision away from Kerr and put he minutes decision on plus minus stats so Kuminga knows that he has nobody to blame but himself if he does not get playing time.

I think Kuminga would respond by begging Andre Iguodala and Draymond to teach him how to be a complete player.

[TB]

Keon Ellis is the exact player we need. Add a pick and get it done.

[AirP.]

If I'm the Kings I absolutely don't trade Ellis for Kuminga. I was just hoping they were dumb enough not to realize this.

There is that little thing of Ellis just deciding to be a FA next summer because Sacramento picked up his team option instead of declining it, making him an RFA and extending him this year. Nobody other than Brooklyn had big money to throw at Ellis. Keon Ellis' team can negotiate an extension this season but he can just say no and go be a UFA.

Read on Twitter

I'm very confused. Why wouldn't the kings decline the option and make him an RFA? His QO must be super low, he hasn't really made much money in the league, and there is no money in the market right now. I doubt he'd get more than the NTMLE as an offer sheet, especially now. They could lock him in for 5/70 or something like that, how does he turn that down to play on 1yr/5M?

He's making 2.7 mil this year on the team option, his max would have been near 19 mil, Sacramento is saving 16 million by doing this but it can make him an UFA if he doesn't accept an extension during the season.

[AirP.]

Let's say we re-sign Kuminga. When does the BYC waiting period is over? December? Or does he has to play the full season for it to end?

Going forward, I think the best path would be to re-sign him just to keep the asset, then flip him when it's allowed. If we are patient it could be better in the long term, better options could materialize.

December 15.

January 15th. The rule seems to be resigning your own players with a 20%+ increase in their pay, you have to wait till Jan 15th.

Who has to wait until Jan. 15?

Unlike the Dec. 15 rule, which allows most free agents acquired during the summer to be moved, the January 15 deadline only applies to those who were re-signed in the offseason, which means that only a handful are subject to it. Specifically, the only players who need to wait an extra month are players who "re-signed with their previous team and also got a raise of over 20%." Additionally, the player's salary must be worth more than the league minimum and the team must've been over the cap and used Bird or Early Bird rights to sign said player.

For example, Cam Johnson of the Brooklyn Nets becomes eligible on Jan. 15. You can check out the rest of the criteria and a list of eligible players here. In comparison to Dec. 15, fewer players become trade-eligible on Jan. 15. As of next Monday, about 17 players will become eligible. In all likelihood, the majority of those 17 players will probably stay put. After all, these are players that their respective teams invested in not so long ago. Ultimately, Jan. 15 marks a turning point as we enter the middle of the season. There's a chance for speculation to take a backseat to reality as far as what teams want/need. In any case, we're excited to see what next Monday brings.

https://fansided.com/posts/nba-calendar-jan-15-explained

Here's last year's FA that became eligible on Jan 15th...

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[vvoland]

There is that little thing of Ellis just deciding to be a FA next summer because Sacramento picked up his team option instead of declining it, making him an RFA and extending him this year. Nobody other than Brooklyn had big money to throw at Ellis. Keon Ellis' team can negotiate an extension this season but he can just say no and go be a UFA.

Read on Twitter

I'm very confused. Why wouldn't the kings decline the option and make him an RFA? His QO must be super low, he hasn't really made much money in the league, and there is no money in the market right now. I doubt he'd get more than the NTMLE as an offer sheet, especially now. They could lock him in for 5/70 or something like that, how does he turn that down to play on 1yr/5M?

Read the article link he posted. It explains the calculus.

I don't use twitter so I don't see a link in the tweet and can't see the replies or links. Is there a tl;dr? They didn't want to offer 5/90 or he didn't want to take it?

[HiRez]

NBA rumors: Jonathan Kuminga’s desired salary that Warriors don’t want to pay

In addition to the alleged $25M/yr ask noted above in the thread, it says the Warriors are also asking for a first round pick? Yikes. Or maybe they're willing to take back an undesirable short-term contract for ~$12.5M if they get the pick as the main asset? I very much doubt they're getting a useful player AND a first round pick.

Sources say that the Warriors have expressed reluctance to go that high in price over a long-term agreement while also seeking some level of first-round draft compensation in any theoretical trade that ships Kuminga elsewhere.

Also makes you wonder what Kuminga and his agent were really holding out for earlier. Did GS really offer $25M? Did they offer less? Was Kuminga's camp asking for more and are now getting desperate but don't want to look TOO desperate so settled on $25M?

[TB]

It was 35m… then it was 30m… now its 25m they want...

Come on JK, we know where this is ending. Dubs need the TPMLE to sign Horford, so just take the increasing AAV contract that starts at 21m and ends around 25m… no other team can pay that and there aren’t any trades out there it seems.

Something like 4/93 with opt out after 3 years.
21, 22.5, 24, 25.5.

Free agent at age 25 after banking about 100m pre-tax.

[bay2hk]

Jk offer should be $15m annual for 3 years. Best warriors can do and still stay in under the first apron. Horford with BAE, Melton on Vet min and our 2 SRP min makes up 14 players.

[statsman]

I'm betting Lacob does not want to be hindered by the 1st apron.

[TB]

With the Suns showing interest, trying to think of what works money wise that I wouldn’t hate…

Royce O’Neale, Oso Ighodaro, and a pick maybe?

I really don’t want Grayson Allen on this team...

[xdrta+]

Jk offer should be $15m annual for 3 years. Best warriors can do and still stay in under the first apron. Horford with BAE, Melton on Vet min and our 2 SRP min makes up 14 players.

Why would you use the BAE ($5.1M) which hard-caps them at the 1st apron, instead of the TPMLE ($5.6M) which doesn't hard-cap them.

[bay2hk]

Jk offer should be $15m annual for 3 years. Best warriors can do and still stay in under the first apron. Horford with BAE, Melton on Vet min and our 2 SRP min makes up 14 players.

Why would you use the BAE ($5.1M) which hard-caps them at the 1st apron, instead of the TPMLE ($5.6M) which doesn't hard-cap them.

I’m sure Warriors are trying not to go above the first apron. I guess we can also use the partial NTMLE which also caps us at the first apron. Either way, Warriors offer to JK is likely significantly less than the $25m he’s looking for. We have more options if JK takes the QO (e.g. having the BAE and partial NTMLE).

[xdrta+]

Jk offer should be $15m annual for 3 years. Best warriors can do and still stay in under the first apron. Horford with BAE, Melton on Vet min and our 2 SRP min makes up 14 players.

Why would you use the BAE ($5.1M) which hard-caps them at the 1st apron, instead of the TPMLE ($5.6M) which doesn't hard-cap them.

I’m sure Warriors are trying not to go above the first apron. I guess we can also use the partial NTMLE which also caps us at the first apron. Either way, Warriors offer to JK is likely significantly less than the $25m he’s looking for. We have more options if JK takes the QO (e.g. having the BAE and partial NTMLE).

Still no reason to use the BAE. And regardless of what happens with JK, the Warriors will almost certainly be above the first apron, they can't afford to be hard-capped there.

[statsman]

Jk offer should be $15m annual for 3 years. Best warriors can do and still stay in under the first apron. Horford with BAE, Melton on Vet min and our 2 SRP min makes up 14 players.

Why would you use the BAE ($5.1M) which hard-caps them at the 1st apron, instead of the TPMLE ($5.6M) which doesn't hard-cap them.

I’m sure Warriors are trying not to go above the first apron.

I bet they don't want to be hard capped at the first apron. If the right trade comes along this season, Lacob will pull the trigger all the way to the second apron.

The only scenario where I would have thought being hard capped at the first apron was an option is if a S&T of Kuminga returned very little and/or small salaries. At that point, you start looking into a S&T of Horford from the Celtics into part of the Warriors' $8.8M TPE. That would have left the entire NTMLE to try and obtain Beal. But that ship has sailed.

[AirP.]

It was 35m… then it was 30m… now its 25m they want...

Come on JK, we know where this is ending. Dubs need the TPMLE to sign Horford, so just take the increasing AAV contract that starts at 21m and ends around 25m… no other team can pay that and there aren’t any trades out there it seems.

Something like 4/93 with opt out after 3 years.
21, 22.5, 24, 25.5.

Free agent at age 25 after banking about 100m pre-tax.

Who said Horford was taking the TPMLE? He's made 10 mil and 9.5 mil the last 2 years on a team which was a strong contender and he had some loyalty with, why is he taking nearly 1/2 that to play with GS?

[TB]

Warriors are almost certainly planning to flirt with the 2nd apron and have no intentions of staying below the 1st apron this year.

[AirP.]

With the Suns showing interest, trying to think of what works money wise that I wouldn’t hate…

Royce O’Neale, Oso Ighodaro, and a pick maybe?

I really don’t want Grayson Allen on this team...

Why wouldn't GS go for one of the 3 low salaried other centers? M.Williams, Maluach or Richards? Bringing in more teams would allow someone like G.Allen, Brooks or even O'Neal to be rerouted and bring in possibly better valued player on a small contract? It's very possible to stay under the 1st apron if they get good valued lower priced players for Kuminga.

[TB]

It was 35m… then it was 30m… now its 25m they want...

Come on JK, we know where this is ending. Dubs need the TPMLE to sign Horford, so just take the increasing AAV contract that starts at 21m and ends around 25m… no other team can pay that and there aren’t any trades out there it seems.

Something like 4/93 with opt out after 3 years.
21, 22.5, 24, 25.5.

Free agent at age 25 after banking about 100m pre-tax.

Who said Horford was taking the TPMLE? He's made 10 mil and 9.5 mil the last 2 years on a team which was a strong contender and he had some loyalty with, why is he taking nearly 1/2 that to play with GS?

All the rumors are that Horford is going to be a Warrior, and the TPMLE is the most we can offer him unless we make trades or let Kuminga walk.

I’m not sure which teams still have the whole MLE, but those would be the ones that could try and lure Horford their way.

[TB]

With the Suns showing interest, trying to think of what works money wise that I wouldn’t hate…

Royce O’Neale, Oso Ighodaro, and a pick maybe?

I really don’t want Grayson Allen on this team...

Why wouldn't GS go for one of the 3 low salaried other centers? M.Williams, Maluach or Richards? Bringing in more teams would allow someone like G.Allen, Brooks or even O'Neal to be rerouted and bring in possibly better valued player on a small contract? It's very possible to stay under the 1st apron if they get good valued players for Kuminga.

I personally would way rather have O’Neale or Allen than any of those centers (except Maluach as a project, but they aren’t trading him). In fact I like Oso more than Williams or Richards anyways.

O’Neale would be a great fit on the Warriors with his 3/D ability. Same with Allen I just don’t like him.

[vvoland]

With the Suns showing interest, trying to think of what works money wise that I wouldn’t hate…

Royce O’Neale, Oso Ighodaro, and a pick maybe?

I really don’t want Grayson Allen on this team...

Why wouldn't GS go for one of the 3 low salaried other centers? M.Williams, Maluach or Richards? Bringing in more teams would allow someone like G.Allen, Brooks or even O'Neal to be rerouted and bring in possibly better valued player on a small contract? It's very possible to stay under the 1st apron if they get good valued players for Kuminga.

I personally would way rather have O’Neale or Allen than any of those centers (except Maluach as a project, but they aren’t trading him). In fact I like Oso more than Williams or Richards anyways.

O’Neale would be a great fit on the Warriors with his 3/D ability. Same with Allen I just don’t like him.

Meaning, you think Allen has D ability or just that he'd be a great fit?