Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Games 1 - 4)

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Pay attention to the contracts given out for guys taken in the 30's. I'm sure they only were willing to take regular contracts and not 2ways, which is what the Brit will get.

If that's is the case and the only big willing to take a 2way was the Brit, then in hindsight, Stevens should have taken a future 2nd for #32. That's hindsight so far seeing how the Brit has played.

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

[Hal14]

What does that even mean? Not a good comparison -- yeah, anyone can buy a lotto ticket.

Amari was the 46th pick in the draft. Chances are... odds are... yes, he ultimately won't pan out in the NBA, like most 46th picks.

But these guys are here primarily to learn how to play their role and the team's system and plays.

Williams might end up as a reserve player in a few years. Nobody expects a savior here. But can he be good? Of course, but it's not gonna be like randomly buying a powerball ticket. It takes time.

I would've given Brad a pass on that, but he traded down from the 32nd pick. Can't keep giving Brad the benefit of the doubt for late 2nd rounders not working out when he regularly trades down or out from higher draft positions.

Yeah the reason you don't trade down from 32 to 46 is because 46 is less likely to be a good player.

Also, you can't just call 46 a lotto ticket. That totally discounts scouting. Some teams are really good at scouting these guys. I mean look at Brooks Branhizer.

Did anyone even remotely have this guy on their radar? That's not just luck. It's good scouting too.

I was very well aware of Brooks Barnhizer and I'm sure all 30 teams were as well.

Good player but old (23 yrs old) he was exposed a bit during the game vs Rutgers where Ace (who overall wasn't even that good this season) made him look silly..Barnhizer physically/athletically could not keep up with Ace or defend him in space. Ace made Barnhizer look like a random men's league player. Also, Barnhizer had a season-ending foot injury.

I had him ranked 71st on my final big board.

I'm not really sure what Barnhizer has to do with anything here. Did he have a good summer league game or something? Summer League means very little in the grand scheme of things. It's a poor barometer for determining how good these guys would be in a real NBA game.

This seems to be an example of people putting way too much emphasis on summer league.

Barnhizer has accomplished literally nothing at the NBA level yet so he's not very relevant to the discussion.

Picks in the 46-60 range are absolutely a lottery ticket. Most of them do not pan out.

Yes, obviously picks in the 32-45 range have a slightly higher hit rate. But even then, the hit rate in that range overall is very low..probably not much higher than the hit rate of a pick at 46 so it makes more sense to trade back, pick up 3 additional 2nd rounders (these picks are lottery tickets so by acquiring 3 additional 2nd rounders you increase your chances of winning the lottery by having 3 extra lottery tickets).

Not to mention a pick at 32 (when we already had pick 28)..that's 2 guys you're drafting in the top 32 which is more $..you can pay a guy much less $ who you draft at 46 than you can the guy drafted at 32.

32 is gonna be expecting a guaranteed 4 year rookie contract. Something you're probably not going to want to offer a player with such low odds of that player working out..especially when you're already giving that 4 year contract and guaranteed money to the player you take at 28.

Not to mention you also have Walsh, Scheierman and JD on the roster..hard to find enough playing time for all of these guys in addition to picks 28 and 32 for them to all actually succeed on your team, especially since we're a team that is trying to win. Sure, this is a bridge year but we still have good players like JB, Hauser, Pritchard, white which makes it hard to give tons of playing time to all of these unproven rookies and it's only a 1 year bridge year.

In 26-27 we'll be back in title contention so then what? You give playing time to all these young guys this year but then in 26-27 when we're back in title contention you can't afford to play tons of young players so if you too many young players who you drafted really high (like 2 guys picked in the top 32) those are high picks that you don't have playing time for.

Not to mention that since we'll be back in title contention in 26-27, those 3 extra 2nd round picks we picked up, some of those picks can be used as trade chips to acquire a proven vet, like maybe someone who can be the starting C the next time we win a title.

Plus, at the time of the draft, KP, Luke and Al were all still on our team. We hadn't lose any of them yet. So at the time, it didn't seem like as big of a need for another C so why not trade back, get more assets and draft a big at 46, rather than drafting a big at 32 and take the chance that you don't even really have the playing time to offer that guy - then you're taking a guy really high but setting him up for failure with no playing time to offer. Much less risk in taking that big at 46..

Lastly, I don't know who you wanted to pick at 32? Raynaud or Kalkbrenner? Amari has a case as being the better prospect than both of them. Raynaud can't defend. He's a big guy who can kind of shoot, but what if the shooting doesn't really translate that much? Then he's basically unplayable.

Kalkbrenner is possibly the slowest, least athletic player in this draft. He also lacks strength to be able to battle in the paint with opposing bigs. He's not a great passer either and the C's usually prefer bigs who can pass. He can kind of shoot but he was a 5 yr college player who only shot it during hsi 5th year and it was on low volume.

[brackdan70]

I would've given Brad a pass on that, but he traded down from the 32nd pick. Can't keep giving Brad the benefit of the doubt for late 2nd rounders not working out when he regularly trades down or out from higher draft positions.

Yeah the reason you don't trade down from 32 to 46 is because 46 is less likely to be a good player.

Also, you can't just call 46 a lotto ticket. That totally discounts scouting. Some teams are really good at scouting these guys. I mean look at Brooks Branhizer.

Did anyone even remotely have this guy on their radar? That's not just luck. It's good scouting too.

I was very well aware of Brooks Barnhizer and I'm sure all 30 teams were as well.

Good player but old (23 yrs old) he was exposed a bit during the game vs Rutgers where Ace (who overall wasn't even that good this season) made him look silly..Barnhizer physically/athletically could not keep up with Ace or defend him in space. Ace made Barnhizer look like a random men's league player. Also, Barnhizer had a season-ending foot injury.

I had him ranked 71st on my final big board.

I'm not really sure what Barnhizer has to do with anything here. Did he have a good summer league game or something? Summer League means very little in the grand scheme of things. It's a poor barometer for determining how good these guys would be in a real NBA game.

This seems to be an example of people putting way too much emphasis on summer league.

Barnhizer has accomplished literally nothing at the NBA level yet so he's not very relevant to the discussion.

Picks in the 46-60 range are absolutely a lottery ticket. Most of them do not pan out.

Yes, obviously picks in the 32-45 range have a slightly higher hit rate. But even then, the hit rate in that range overall is very low..probably not much higher than the hit rate of a pick at 46 so it makes more sense to trade back, pick up 3 additional 2nd rounders (these picks are lottery tickets so by acquiring 3 additional 2nd rounders you increase your chances of winning the lottery by having 3 extra lottery tickets).

Not to mention a pick at 32 (when we already had pick 28)..that's 2 guys you're drafting in the top 32 which is more $..you can pay a guy much less $ who you draft at 46 than you can the guy drafted at 32.

32 is gonna be expecting a guaranteed 4 year rookie contract. Something you're probably not going to want to offer a player with such low odds of that player working out..especially when you're already giving that 4 year contract and guaranteed money to the player you take at 28.

Not to mention you also have Walsh, Scheierman and JD on the roster..hard to find enough playing time for all of these guys in addition to picks 28 and 32 for them to all actually succeed on your team, especially since we're a team that is trying to win. Sure, this is a bridge year but we still have good players like JB, Hauser, Pritchard, white which makes it hard to give tons of playing time to all of these unproven rookies and it's only a 1 year bridge year.

In 26-27 we'll be back in title contention so then what? You give playing time to all these young guys this year but then in 26-27 when we're back in title contention you can't afford to play tons of young players so if you too many young players who you drafted really high (like 2 guys picked in the top 32) those are high picks that you don't have playing time for.

Not to mention that since we'll be back in title contention in 26-27, those 3 extra 2nd round picks we picked up, some of those picks can be used as trade chips to acquire a proven vet, like maybe someone who can be the starting C the next time we win a title.

Plus, at the time of the draft, KP, Luke and Al were all still on our team. We hadn't lose any of them yet. So at the time, it didn't seem like as big of a need for another C so why not trade back, get more assets and draft a big at 46, rather than drafting a big at 32 and take the chance that you don't even really have the playing time to offer that guy - then you're taking a guy really high but setting him up for failure with no playing time to offer. Much less risk in taking that big at 46..

Lastly, I don't know who you wanted to pick at 32? Raynaud or Kalkbrenner? Amari has a case as being the better prospect than both of them. Raynaud can't defend. He's a big guy who can kind of shoot, but what if the shooting doesn't really translate that much? Then he's basically unplayable.

Kalkbrenner is possibly the slowest, least athletic player in this draft. He also lacks strength to be able to battle in the paint with opposing bigs. He's not a great passer either and the C's usually prefer bigs who can pass. He can kind of shoot but he was a 5 yr college player who only shot it during hsi 5th year and it was on low volume.

Another thought about trading 32….all those guys we like there signed NBA contracts…there is a chance that Brad liked saving those roster spots for free agents…aka Minott and Garza.
I like Minott for sure as much as anyone we might have drafted at 32…with the possible exception of Penda.

[winsomme2]

I would've given Brad a pass on that, but he traded down from the 32nd pick. Can't keep giving Brad the benefit of the doubt for late 2nd rounders not working out when he regularly trades down or out from higher draft positions.

Yeah the reason you don't trade down from 32 to 46 is because 46 is less likely to be a good player.

Also, you can't just call 46 a lotto ticket. That totally discounts scouting. Some teams are really good at scouting these guys. I mean look at Brooks Branhizer.

Did anyone even remotely have this guy on their radar? That's not just luck. It's good scouting too.

I was very well aware of Brooks Barnhizer and I'm sure all 30 teams were as well.

Good player but old (23 yrs old) he was exposed a bit during the game vs Rutgers where Ace (who overall wasn't even that good this season) made him look silly..Barnhizer physically/athletically could not keep up with Ace or defend him in space. Ace made Barnhizer look like a random men's league player. Also, Barnhizer had a season-ending foot injury.

I had him ranked 71st on my final big board.

I'm not really sure what Barnhizer has to do with anything here. Did he have a good summer league game or something? Summer League means very little in the grand scheme of things. It's a poor barometer for determining how good these guys would be in a real NBA game.

This seems to be an example of people putting way too much emphasis on summer league.

Barnhizer has accomplished literally nothing at the NBA level yet so he's not very relevant to the discussion.

Picks in the 46-60 range are absolutely a lottery ticket. Most of them do not pan out.

Yes, obviously picks in the 32-45 range have a slightly higher hit rate. But even then, the hit rate in that range overall is very low..probably not much higher than the hit rate of a pick at 46 so it makes more sense to trade back, pick up 3 additional 2nd rounders (these picks are lottery tickets so by acquiring 3 additional 2nd rounders you increase your chances of winning the lottery by having 3 extra lottery tickets).

Not to mention a pick at 32 (when we already had pick 28)..that's 2 guys you're drafting in the top 32 which is more $..you can pay a guy much less $ who you draft at 46 than you can the guy drafted at 32.

32 is gonna be expecting a guaranteed 4 year rookie contract. Something you're probably not going to want to offer a player with such low odds of that player working out..especially when you're already giving that 4 year contract and guaranteed money to the player you take at 28.

Not to mention you also have Walsh, Scheierman and JD on the roster..hard to find enough playing time for all of these guys in addition to picks 28 and 32 for them to all actually succeed on your team, especially since we're a team that is trying to win. Sure, this is a bridge year but we still have good players like JB, Hauser, Pritchard, white which makes it hard to give tons of playing time to all of these unproven rookies and it's only a 1 year bridge year.

In 26-27 we'll be back in title contention so then what? You give playing time to all these young guys this year but then in 26-27 when we're back in title contention you can't afford to play tons of young players so if you too many young players who you drafted really high (like 2 guys picked in the top 32) those are high picks that you don't have playing time for.

Not to mention that since we'll be back in title contention in 26-27, those 3 extra 2nd round picks we picked up, some of those picks can be used as trade chips to acquire a proven vet, like maybe someone who can be the starting C the next time we win a title.

Plus, at the time of the draft, KP, Luke and Al were all still on our team. We hadn't lose any of them yet. So at the time, it didn't seem like as big of a need for another C so why not trade back, get more assets and draft a big at 46, rather than drafting a big at 32 and take the chance that you don't even really have the playing time to offer that guy - then you're taking a guy really high but setting him up for failure with no playing time to offer. Much less risk in taking that big at 46..

Lastly, I don't know who you wanted to pick at 32? Raynaud or Kalkbrenner? Amari has a case as being the better prospect than both of them. Raynaud can't defend. He's a big guy who can kind of shoot, but what if the shooting doesn't really translate that much? Then he's basically unplayable.

Kalkbrenner is possibly the slowest, least athletic player in this draft. He also lacks strength to be able to battle in the paint with opposing bigs. He's not a great passer either and the C's usually prefer bigs who can pass. He can kind of shoot but he was a 5 yr college player who only shot it during hsi 5th year and it was on low volume.

I guess I was higher on Raynaud but would have been totally okay with Kalkbrenner too.

But as far as second round picks go, I think you are largely discounting the scouting aspect of it.

If you’re a team who keeps hitting on low draft picks are you really just lucky or do you have knack for identifying talent?

Sure there’s some luck but there’s a lot of skill too.

[djFan71]

Of course he can be good. This is his first 3 pro games fer cryin' out loud

And these aren't even real games. They're basically just scrimmages. Do the stats from these games count towards each player's career NBA stats? Of course not. Do these games count in the NBA standings? Of course not.

Have these rookies been coached at all yet by their team's actual head coach? No

Some of ya'll are putting way too much emphasis on these games. Haven't we learned our lesson by now from watching previous summer leagues and seeing how little they matter in the grand scheme of things?

Yes but here is why I disagree.. You can play bad and still show some positive signs. A williams has shown nothing zero. He shows no tenacity, no timing, no willing to get A. Rebound, he hasn't shown good hands. He has no explosiveness.. He shows he's not a good finisher.. Dribbling, a little bit and some passing will not be enough... Also hasn't shown any scoring ability. He shoots the ball on my very low position.. and all of that. We are talking about a 5 year college player. Not some nineteen year old.

If you or anyone want to believe that is your right... I'm in the you have to show me something.. Until then I just do not believe.

Yeah, I don't wanna write anyone off, but agree with all this.

He's not a presence defensively either. The passing is nice, but it's about 17th on the list of things i want out of my big. He needs to go to Maine and learn to make an impact on the boards and defensively. If he can't make significant progress there, his passing won't matter.

But, I'm just glad we finally drafted a tall guy. So, I'm on board with just trying to mold him in Maine and see what happens.

[Hal14]

And these aren't even real games. They're basically just scrimmages. Do the stats from these games count towards each player's career NBA stats? Of course not. Do these games count in the NBA standings? Of course not.

Have these rookies been coached at all yet by their team's actual head coach? No

Some of ya'll are putting way too much emphasis on these games. Haven't we learned our lesson by now from watching previous summer leagues and seeing how little they matter in the grand scheme of things?

Yes but here is why I disagree.. You can play bad and still show some positive signs. A williams has shown nothing zero. He shows no tenacity, no timing, no willing to get A. Rebound, he hasn't shown good hands. He has no explosiveness.. He shows he's not a good finisher.. Dribbling, a little bit and some passing will not be enough... Also hasn't shown any scoring ability. He shoots the ball on my very low position.. and all of that. We are talking about a 5 year college player. Not some nineteen year old.

If you or anyone want to believe that is your right... I'm in the you have to show me something.. Until then I just do not believe.

Yeah, I don't wanna write anyone off, but agree with all this.

He's not a presence defensively either. The passing is nice, but it's about 17th on the list of things i want out of my big. He needs to go to Maine and learn to make an impact on the boards and defensively. If he can't make significant progress there, his passing won't matter.

But, I'm just glad we finally drafted a tall guy. So, I'm on board with just trying to mold him in Maine and see what happens.

Seems like you're basing a lot on summer league games which are (for the most part) meaningless in terms of player evals/player projections - especially for rookies.

BLK% of 6.1 last season and 8.0 for his college career are decent numbers. Not great but decent. No one is projecting him to be an elite rim protector.

He was a good defender last season at Kentucky. Including switching onto Cooper Flagg and stopping Flagg from scoring every possession they were matched up, including a possession in crunch time with the game on the line, which is covered in this vid:

Watch on YouTube

;t=1s

The hope is that he can at least be serviceable (like average) as a defender along with being a plus player on offense who can be a legit offensive hub you can run your offense through when he's in the game. He can be hitting cutters and we could get like 3-4 easy buckets a game, rather than relying on launching 50 3's every game..seems like Brad/Joe want to shift the strategy a bit and have more cutting, less reliance on the 3.

I guess we'll jus have to agree to disagree if passing is 17th on the list of things you want in a big. But imo, if you've got a guy who day 1 as a rookie is already one of the best passing bigs in the league before even learning your system, that's a pretty high offensive ceiling that player has. The potential is there for basically every trip down the floor when he's in the game, he could be hitting cutters, zipping the ball to open shooters, ensuring our offensive is flowing smoothly and has good pace/rhythm to it, creating easy baskets, open looks for teammates. That's very valuable imo. Especially from a guy picked as late in the draft as 46th.

Walsh and Scheierman both spoke about the benefit of playing with Amari as a passing hub type of big:

Read on Twitter

It's not just his passing but also his ball handling, ability to bring the ball up the floor himself so we're not totally f'd if we have a PG on the floor, and that's the only guy who can handle the ball, opposing team knows they can pressure the heck out of that player, deny him the ball and then we're screwed with no one else who can handle the ball.

Bigs who can handle the ball like guards are a huge value add. Plus he can not only handle the ball but drive to the basket and finish there.

While he's had some issues finishing in SL, SL is a tiny sample size, it means very little..last season at Kentucky Amari had 40 dunks and shot 69.3% at the rim, a very respectable number, especially considering the fact that he played in the toughest conference in college basketball.

And as for rebounding, he had a TRB% of 20.4 and a career TRB% of 19.9, which are very high numbers. He was definitely one of the better rebounders in this draft class. And again, that's despite playing in the toughest conference in college basketball this season. That TRB% last season is also impressive because Kentucky played a lot of double big lineups, which makes it harder for any individual big to rack up high rebound numbers if he's playing lots of his mins next to another big.

[threrf23]

I mean, just going by stats and scouting capsules, Amari's appeal to me was that he kind of resembled a poor man's Timelord.

I know it's just summer league, but so far, he looks more like a poor man's Christian Wood.

He was a good rebounder in college, which is typically a good sign....tho he played most of his years at Drexel so tough to know how he would've performed as a younger guy playing against better competition.

Statistically over 5 years I'd say he looks better than Nick Richards and worse than Daniel Gafford, and I thought maybe he seemed comparable to those guys since he seemed similarly raw over his college career (he was TO prone and a bit foul prone, not a great shooter and wasn't a real efficient scorer by nba prospect playing at Drexel standards). I was hopeful he could be a defensive presence along those lines, which would be a score mid 2nd round...but watching him in SL, I am reminded that he lacks the right size and frame to impact the game like those guys, and he completely does not look like a guy that has the savvy to work around that.

His path to a long NBA career will be dirty work, IMO...but over three summer league games he hasn't even been able to pull that off against SL competition.

I know it's ridiculous to write a player off cause SL, but no reason it wouldn't be a factor in decision making.

[djFan71]

Yes but here is why I disagree.. You can play bad and still show some positive signs. A williams has shown nothing zero. He shows no tenacity, no timing, no willing to get A. Rebound, he hasn't shown good hands. He has no explosiveness.. He shows he's not a good finisher.. Dribbling, a little bit and some passing will not be enough... Also hasn't shown any scoring ability. He shoots the ball on my very low position.. and all of that. We are talking about a 5 year college player. Not some nineteen year old.

If you or anyone want to believe that is your right... I'm in the you have to show me something.. Until then I just do not believe.

Yeah, I don't wanna write anyone off, but agree with all this.

He's not a presence defensively either. The passing is nice, but it's about 17th on the list of things i want out of my big. He needs to go to Maine and learn to make an impact on the boards and defensively. If he can't make significant progress there, his passing won't matter.

But, I'm just glad we finally drafted a tall guy. So, I'm on board with just trying to mold him in Maine and see what happens.

Seems like you're basing a lot on summer league games which are (for the most part) meaningless in terms of player evals/player projections - especially for rookies.

BLK% of 6.1 last season and 8.0 for his college career are decent numbers. Not great but decent. No one is projecting him to be an elite rim protector.

He was a good defender last season at Kentucky. Including switching onto Cooper Flagg and stopping Flagg from scoring every possession they were matched up, including a possession in crunch time with the game on the line, which is covered in this vid:

Watch on YouTube

;t=1s

The hope is that he can at least be serviceable (like average) as a defender along with being a plus player on offense who can be a legit offensive hub you can run your offense through when he's in the game. He can be hitting cutters and we could get like 3-4 easy buckets a game, rather than relying on launching 50 3's every game..seems like Brad/Joe want to shift the strategy a bit and have more cutting, less reliance on the 3.

I guess we'll jus have to agree to disagree if passing is 17th on the list of things you want in a big. But imo, if you've got a guy who day 1 as a rookie is already one of the best passing bigs in the league before even learning your system, that's a pretty high offensive ceiling that player has. The potential is there for basically every trip down the floor when he's in the game, he could be hitting cutters, zipping the ball to open shooters, ensuring our offensive is flowing smoothly and has good pace/rhythm to it, creating easy baskets, open looks for teammates. That's very valuable imo. Especially from a guy picked as late in the draft as 46th.

Walsh and Scheierman both spoke about the benefit of playing with Amari as a passing hub type of big:

Read on Twitter

It's not just his passing but also his ball handling, ability to bring the ball up the floor himself so we're not totally f'd if we have a PG on the floor, and that's the only guy who can handle the ball, opposing team knows they can pressure the heck out of that player, deny him the ball and then we're screwed with no one else who can handle the ball.

Bigs who can handle the ball like guards are a huge value add. Plus he can not only handle the ball but drive to the basket and finish there.

While he's had some issues finishing in SL, SL is a tiny sample size, it means very little..last season at Kentucky Amari had 40 dunks and shot 69.3% at the rim, a very respectable number, especially considering the fact that he played in the toughest conference in college basketball.

And as for rebounding, he had a TRB% of 20.4 and a career TRB% of 19.9, which are very high numbers. He was definitely one of the better rebounders in this draft class. And again, that's despite playing in the toughest conference in college basketball this season. That TRB% last season is also impressive because Kentucky played a lot of double big lineups, which makes it harder for any individual big to rack up high rebound numbers if he's playing lots of his mins next to another big.

I'm not basing my entire eval on the SL games. I'm literally talking in a SL game thread about the games we just saw. Not his entire career. There's a difference in saying he didn't have a presence on D / boards in these games vs writing him off and saying he never will.

I said I was happy we took him and give him a year in Maine and see what happens. And, I thought it would be obvious that 17th was hyperbole. Passing/ball-handling are great for sure. But, D and rebounding are entry-level center skills to me. If you can't do those effectively, I don't want to play you. And before you list all the centers who are good on O/poor on D that play in the NBA, I concede that they exist. They are just not the type I value.

[Curmudgeon]

Williams a great passer? I haven't seen it in Summer league. The two best passers on the team have been Lofton and Shulga.

[Dogen]

Williams a great passer? I haven't seen it in Summer league. The two best passers on the team have been Lofton and Shulga.

Lofton and Shulga certainly showed more, but then again they had the ball more than Amari. Williams had a few really nice passes, like the one to a cutting Walsh, that demonstrated that he may be a passing threat in the high post. The young players are going to need to learn this in order to make the right reads. Would certianly help if Amari develops a shot to keep defenses honest, but that's on the wish list.

[Parasite]

Brad is a very good GM, but he needs better talent evaluators for the draft.

[ParticleMan]

Walsh is having a very nice SL. Not sure we can expect much more in this setting. Probably our best defender, and most consistent offensive player. he's shown what he can at this level. just needs to translate this style of play into the big show.

Gonzalez has been a pleasant surprise. His moonball 3's look decent enough, hits a decent % and his misses look ok. defensively he's got a few things to learn but he is disruptive and plays super hard. his biggest trouble has been finishing in the paint, but eventually he will get used to NBA-level strength and size, he has the athleticism for it.

Amari, people are down on him but I think he does some good things out there. some sterling passes. the most disappointing part is that he seems like a non-factor on the glass and in rim protection, those were supposedly strengths. a two-way seems about right, let him see how he develops. not saying he will be great but he has some nice skills, just has to learn how to use them at the nba level.

Shulga otoh does not look like an nba player to me, too overmatched. he needs to be an absolute light-out 3 shooter ala Steve Kerr to have a chance, and it doesn't seem like he's in that class.

[phincsfan]

Pay attention to the contracts given out for guys taken in the 30's. I'm sure they only were willing to take regular contracts and not 2ways, which is what the Brit will get.

If that's is the case and the only big willing to take a 2way was the Brit, then in hindsight, Stevens should have taken a future 2nd for #32. That's hindsight so far seeing how the Brit has played.

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

Well #46 was the Brit and although I like Shulga, 57 isn't such a great addition.

Those future 2nds are from Orlando which most likely means they will be in the 40's or worse for sure.

I would have preferred moving that #32 to a team who would be picking in the 30's next year like Sac, Por, Phoenix.

IMO, the C's got hosed in that trade. #32 was pretty valuable.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Pay attention to the contracts given out for guys taken in the 30's. I'm sure they only were willing to take regular contracts and not 2ways, which is what the Brit will get.

If that's is the case and the only big willing to take a 2way was the Brit, then in hindsight, Stevens should have taken a future 2nd for #32. That's hindsight so far seeing how the Brit has played.

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

Well #46 was the Brit and although I like Shulga, 57 isn't such a great addition.

Those future 2nds are from Orlando which most likely means they will be in the 40's or worse for sure.

I would have preferred moving that #32 to a team who would be picking in the 30's next year like Sac, Por, Phoenix.

IMO, the C's got hosed in that trade. #32 was pretty valuable.

It's really weird that you refuse to refer to Amari Williams by his name. It's especially weird given that you don't do the same thing with any of the US players on the roster. After spending all year saying you don't want the Celtics to draft a foreign player and that you don't trust foreign programs. Almost sounds like you don't like people from other countries. I wonder if there's a word for that.

It's also really weird that you are dissing Stevens for a trade that you didn't even bothered to learn the details of. Why don't you look those up ? You clearly have access to the internet.

[Hal14]

1 summer league game left for us and it's not the championship.

We've got 4 guys on the end of our bench who have barely played at all this SL season.

I expect in sunday's game, those 4 guys (Ben gregg, Aaron Scott, Hayden Gray, Zach Hicks) to each get a decent amount of playing time - especially in the 2nd half.

1st half, we might treat it more like a regular game, playing our regulars. But I think as the game goes on, we'll play those 4 end of bench guys more and play our regulars (like Hugo, Baylor, Walsh, Amari..) less.

We'll try to win. But more importantly, the objective for this game will likely be:
-Get those 4 end of bench guys some run
-Get a little more reps in for the regulars
-Have no one get hurt

We do that and sunday's game is a success

[gocelts]

Ha, I ended up falling asleep during this game....then this morning I read these comments on the thread and assumed we lost....these convs get way too negative...

This summer league squad is okay. Walsh is your standard 2nd round pick. Its clear he's playing a bit more selfishly as the pressure is on to make this team or any other team at this point. He'll get one more "look" this year. Don't know why he's even on the team at this point unless they are showcasing him as a throw in for a trade.

Hugo is a sneaky good pick. He's really young but knows how to play smart and beyond his age. He's going to stick around if he puts in the work. He's already pegged to have a decent career in Europe, now its a matter of if there is more potential to play in the NBA. He (and all the other rookies) need to get with the "Grant Williams 3 point shooting program" ASAP.

Baylor may not be an NBA player. He just has that uncoordinated vibe...and If he's not hitting 3s, I really don't see a use for him. He's definitely lost the most equity this summer league.

Not sure Bassy does much more Queta and Amri clearly needs a year of seasoning in the GLeague..he has time.

Not sure if Brad is a bad "drafter" or if Mazzulla is too insecure to trust a rookie out there that may cost him a game or two...Pritchard was a late pick that wasnt good right away...that said he did show signs when called upon. Its a process.

Danny botched up his fair share of drafts too...What Brad does better IMO is recover quickly by bringing in players via trade or FA that can contribute. Lets give the rookies more than a month before we declare them busts...

Danny did the hard work: Got 'em a championship that would have been more without injury, then managed to convert his used-up assets into a bonanza of top picks.

Brad did good, but relatively easy, work: Topped off the team that Danny built from those picks with some savvy trades that a bit mortgaged the future. Then got 'em a championship that would have been more without injury, maxxing out ownership's credit cards along the way. Now he's low on assets for a rebuild.

Good comment...Maybe this warrants its own thread Danny vs Stevens...to be clear I think they both are fantastic GMs, and Danny of course has a better track record, that said Stevens can actually get better while Danny sort of plateaued. Overall I still believe Danny was one of the best at drafting, especially guards and useful 2nd rounders...But Stevens, trading for White, and moving on from Smart..those were gambles that I dont think Danny would have made. I feel Stevens is always looking to improve the team more times than hearing "We like or guys". Again, I like them both, but if Im owning a team, Im hiring Stevens at this point.

[phincsfan]

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

Well #46 was the Brit and although I like Shulga, 57 isn't such a great addition.

Those future 2nds are from Orlando which most likely means they will be in the 40's or worse for sure.

I would have preferred moving that #32 to a team who would be picking in the 30's next year like Sac, Por, Phoenix.

IMO, the C's got hosed in that trade. #32 was pretty valuable.

It's really weird that you refuse to refer to Amari Williams by his name. It's especially weird given that you don't do the same thing with any of the US players on the roster. After spending all year saying you don't want the Celtics to draft a foreign player and that you don't trust foreign programs. Almost sounds like you don't like people from other countries. I wonder if there's a word for that.

It's also really weird that you are dissing Stevens for a trade that you didn't even bothered to learn the details of. Why don't you look those up ? You clearly have access to the internet.

Why don't you look at a few of my previous posts where I say "Williams", before you try insinuating something. I actually like saying "the Brit". If you think that's disparaging, that's a you issue.

Shulga is Ukranian and I say "Shulga". Hugo is from Spain and I say "Ooooogo'". Is that OK by you or do I have to say Hugo Gonzalez Pena? Queta is from Portugal and I say "Neems".

Are we playing the identity politics/cancel culture game.

And yes, I don't trust foreign programs. But I do like people from other countries because my wife came to the US from a foreign country when she was 10. I visited there in 2000, great country, great people.

You can say that word now.

[brackdan70]

Pay attention to the contracts given out for guys taken in the 30's. I'm sure they only were willing to take regular contracts and not 2ways, which is what the Brit will get.

If that's is the case and the only big willing to take a 2way was the Brit, then in hindsight, Stevens should have taken a future 2nd for #32. That's hindsight so far seeing how the Brit has played.

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

Well #46 was the Brit and although I like Shulga, 57 isn't such a great addition.

Those future 2nds are from Orlando which most likely means they will be in the 40's or worse for sure.

I would have preferred moving that #32 to a team who would be picking in the 30's next year like Sac, Por, Phoenix.

IMO, the C's got hosed in that trade. #32 was pretty valuable.

The 2026 from Orlando is Most favorable between Detroit Pistons, Milwaukee Bucks, and Magic, so still all solid teams but a chance the pick is in the low 40s
I think saying they go hosed is and exaggeration. 4 picks for 1.
I liked 3 or 4 guys we could have had at 32 a lot so I don’t love the trade, but all 4 of those guys got full NBA contracts, so I get trading back to preserve the roster spot. When thinking about that trade you kind of have to consider Minott and or Garza.
At this moment I like Penda better than Williams, Shulga, Minott and two seconds….but that’s a lot of chances to hit and Minott has shown positive play in the big leagues and is only 22, so IDK. I get and appreciate the trade but also think Penda has a ton of upside. My crush on him, Raynaud, Kalkbrenner, Thiero will probably were off if one of Minott, Garza, Williams turns into a hit.

[phincsfan]

The Brit has a name. You could try using it. Besides, Stevens didn't trade #32 for a future second but for two future seconds AND #46 AND #57. Which is so clearly superior to what you are suggesting, I'm not even sure why you are complaining.

Well #46 was the Brit and although I like Shulga, 57 isn't such a great addition.

Those future 2nds are from Orlando which most likely means they will be in the 40's or worse for sure.

I would have preferred moving that #32 to a team who would be picking in the 30's next year like Sac, Por, Phoenix.

IMO, the C's got hosed in that trade. #32 was pretty valuable.

The 2026 from Orlando is Most favorable between Detroit Pistons, Milwaukee Bucks, and Magic, so still all solid teams but a chance the pick is in the low 40s
I think saying they go hosed is and exaggeration. 4 picks for 1.
I liked 3 or 4 guys we could have had at 32 a lot so I don’t love the trade, but all 4 of those guys got full NBA contracts, so I get trading back to preserve the roster spot. When thinking about that trade you kind of have to consider Minott and or Garza.
At this moment I like Penda better than Williams, Shulga, Minott and two seconds….but that’s a lot of chances to hit and Minott has shown positive play in the big leagues and is only 22, so IDK. I get and appreciate the trade but also think Penda has a ton of upside. My crush on him, Raynaud, Kalkbrenner, Thiero will probably were off if one of Minott, Garza, Williams turns into a hit.

Multiple picks is good for football. But trading #32 for a 26’ pick that will most likely be in the 40’s isn’t a good deal IMO.

Worst case scenario, the Brit and Shulga don’t pan out and the pick in 26’ is in the 40’s. What then?

[cloverleaf]

Ha, I ended up falling asleep during this game....then this morning I read these comments on the thread and assumed we lost....these convs get way too negative...

This summer league squad is okay. Walsh is your standard 2nd round pick. Its clear he's playing a bit more selfishly as the pressure is on to make this team or any other team at this point. He'll get one more "look" this year. Don't know why he's even on the team at this point unless they are showcasing him as a throw in for a trade.

Hugo is a sneaky good pick. He's really young but knows how to play smart and beyond his age. He's going to stick around if he puts in the work. He's already pegged to have a decent career in Europe, now its a matter of if there is more potential to play in the NBA. He (and all the other rookies) need to get with the "Grant Williams 3 point shooting program" ASAP.

Baylor may not be an NBA player. He just has that uncoordinated vibe...and If he's not hitting 3s, I really don't see a use for him. He's definitely lost the most equity this summer league.

Not sure Bassy does much more Queta and Amri clearly needs a year of seasoning in the GLeague..he has time.

Not sure if Brad is a bad "drafter" or if Mazzulla is too insecure to trust a rookie out there that may cost him a game or two...Pritchard was a late pick that wasnt good right away...that said he did show signs when called upon. Its a process.

Danny botched up his fair share of drafts too...What Brad does better IMO is recover quickly by bringing in players via trade or FA that can contribute. Lets give the rookies more than a month before we declare them busts...

Danny did the hard work: Got 'em a championship that would have been more without injury, then managed to convert his used-up assets into a bonanza of top picks.

Brad did good, but relatively easy, work: Topped off the team that Danny built from those picks with some savvy trades that a bit mortgaged the future. Then got 'em a championship that would have been more without injury, maxxing out ownership's credit cards along the way. Now he's low on assets for a rebuild.

Good comment...Maybe this warrants its own thread Danny vs Stevens...to be clear I think they both are fantastic GMs, and Danny of course has a better track record, that said Stevens can actually get better while Danny sort of plateaued. Overall I still believe Danny was one of the best at drafting, especially guards and useful 2nd rounders...But Stevens, trading for White, and moving on from Smart..those were gambles that I dont think Danny would have made. I feel Stevens is always looking to improve the team more times than hearing "We like or guys". Again, I like them both, but if Im owning a team, Im hiring Stevens at this point.

Danny's 65, past his prime by several years. I'd take prime Danny over prime Brad to date; but as you point out, Brad still has room to grow. And Danny traded PP and KP: I doubt he'd have been unable to let Smart go. Spotting and bagging White? That does seem to be more of a Brad strength.