Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[PG Graveyard]

So if i have any reading comprehension skills at all, i think its clear that Kuzma and Prince are not starting.

They may very well just roll out

Kpj
Green
Trent
Giannis
Turner

If only to get that bigger sample size before making any additional decisions

I sure hope so. As much as I would like to see them make a big wing move I really want to see more of this lineup or at least those 4 minus Turner together. Although I think Turner only makes that lineup stronger.

I'm also generally curious to see a zone defense of Turner, Kuz, Giannis, KPJ and Trent/Rollins. On paper that looks nasty.

[blazza18]

Really interesting Bobby comparison Horst gave for Cole. He must have had that stored away inside his head for awhile.

The Kuzma stuff is just propaganda which is whatever. Not sure how you can brag about lineup data and then speak positively about either him or Prince lol.

[skbucks1985]

I just don't see where the minutes come from, when there's no injuries, for Kuzma at the 4. Giannis, Turner and Bobby played a combined 86 minutes a game a year ago. I expect Bobby and Turner's minutes to stay roughly the same and Giannis might go down a tiny amount, but its not going to be any more than a couple minutes. Barring injury, I suspect Kuzma's minutes will come overwhelmingly at the 3.

[Profound23]

I just don't see where the minutes come from, when there's no injuries, for Kuzma at the 4.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm hoping there aren't any minutes for the 2,3,4,5 or even the bench

[Prez]

I’m choosing to focus on the bits of that interview where Horst talked about how Kuzma is a 4 and Prince is a 3/4 and he’s aware of how good the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups were. Which makes it that much more infuriating that the pea brained doofus on the sidelines apparently wasn’t last year. Seems like that’s the vision Horst will be pushing which definitely raises my optimism level a bit.

[soxperry]

I’m choosing to focus on the bits of that interview where Horst talked about how Kuzma is a 4 and Prince is a 3/4 and he’s aware of how good the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups were. Which makes it that much more infuriating that the pea brained doofus on the sidelines apparently wasn’t last year. Seems like that’s the vision Horst will be pushing which definitely raises my optimism level a bit.

Yes, that clearly indicates that he feels neither should start

And honestly, theres nothing wrong with your bench sf being Prince and bench pf being Kuzma. That is really great depth. Outside of the Kuzma contract, thats an A situation

[ShootingtheJ]

Giannis wasn't even top 10 in touches last year because selfish scrub Dame wouldn't give him the damn ball

Even accounting for only the time frame Dame played last year Giannis had more touches per game than every season besides 2017. More time of possession than every season.

Can you tell us what happened when his touches increased after the Dame injury? Where did our offensive rating rank in that time frame? In your opinion, do you think the team should lean in to a style of play that made them dramatically more effective?

Also, are these stats available in a per possession, or per 36 format, to normalize for the increased minutes Giannis played last year?

Just checking in to see if you had a chance to find those numbers?

[ShootingtheJ]

Horst said a lot of good things about the lineup data with Green and Trent on the wings, but it's fairly hollow until we acquire a 3rd player similar to them so we can actually play that way.

I'm waiting impatiently, even though I should admit the offseason is just getting started.

[GoldenAntlers]

I’m choosing to focus on the bits of that interview where Horst talked about how Kuzma is a 4 and Prince is a 3/4 and he’s aware of how good the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups were. Which makes it that much more infuriating that the pea brained doofus on the sidelines apparently wasn’t last year. Seems like that’s the vision Horst will be pushing which definitely raises my optimism level a bit.

Yes, that clearly indicates that he feels neither should start

And honestly, theres nothing wrong with your bench sf being Prince and bench pf being Kuzma. That is really great depth. Outside of the Kuzma contract, thats an A situation

Kuzma and Prince buying into a bench role and following the expectations of said role would be a huge win.

[GoldenAntlers]

I'm excited for this team. Last year, I barely watched even though I had the games on. The year before, similar, even though I was stoked we traded for Dame.

The last two years, the team had no identity, which is crazy to say about a squad led by Giannis and Dame. Maybe not so crazy to say about a squad led by Doc.

Something different is brewing in cream city this year.

[tedbrogen]

I’m choosing to focus on the bits of that interview where Horst talked about how Kuzma is a 4 and Prince is a 3/4 and he’s aware of how good the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups were. Which makes it that much more infuriating that the pea brained doofus on the sidelines apparently wasn’t last year. Seems like that’s the vision Horst will be pushing which definitely raises my optimism level a bit.

Yes, that clearly indicates that he feels neither should start

And honestly, theres nothing wrong with your bench sf being Prince and bench pf being Kuzma. That is really great depth. Outside of the Kuzma contract, thats an A situation

Kuzma and Prince buying into a bench role and following the expectations of said role would be a huge win.

I’ll believe they are bench players when Doc actually treats them as such outside of back against the wall elimination scenarios.
Ham also LOVES Prince and seems to be the only assistant that can talk Doc into things.

What Horst says doesn’t truly matter unless Doc follows through. I don’t trust Doc to do the right thing and I’m afraid the billionaires like Doc too much to actually let Horst fire him.

[soxperry]

there's just no excuse for Kuzma or Prince to start anymore. Kuzma is a terrible fit next to Giannis and Prince just isn't as good as Green or Trent. These are all blatant facts. If either of those turds starts there will be a petition and possibly a billboard. No more **** around.

[Baddy Chuck]

Even accounting for only the time frame Dame played last year Giannis had more touches per game than every season besides 2017. More time of possession than every season.

Can you tell us what happened when his touches increased after the Dame injury? Where did our offensive rating rank in that time frame? In your opinion, do you think the team should lean in to a style of play that made them dramatically more effective?

Also, are these stats available in a per possession, or per 36 format, to normalize for the increased minutes Giannis played last year?

Just checking in to see if you had a chance to find those numbers?

It's hilarious how often a guy who knows how to look up every stat plays so dumb when called out for his bull. To answer the question, no, they aren't easily available in per possession or per 36 (but you knew that), if you want to do that math go right ahead but I'll tell you that from looking at the numbers they really aren't going to lend credence to your hack job. Last season he had the ball pretty much as much or more than every season he's ever been in the NBA, "selfish Dame" didn't prevent Giannis from touching the ball, which is even more hilarious considering you're replacing Eric Bledsoe and Jrue Holiday with a 25 PPG, 62% TS% all-star point guard.

I think a different direction without Dame can work fine. I very much don't believe we did a Dame/Giannis pairing any help with the personnel we played around them though. Starting Andre **** Jackson Jr, Taurean Prince and Brook with Prince sliding down and Kuzma in when AJax got banished probably off the team forever. Dame and Giannis weren't a perfect pairing we hoped, I've long admitted that, but I wasn't going to sit there pouting because the the scoring guard with defensive issues we traded for turned out to be........ a scoring guard with defensive issues.

[German Athens]

Looks like Giannis touched the ball more per minute during his two MVP seasons, but outside that, last season was the most since we ascended.

If we filter for March 20th and later, Giannis touched it more per minute, over those 11 games, than any season outside 2020, just slightly more than 2019.

[tedbrogen]

GA having tons of touches in the first two Bud years makes sense. Bud was really trying to turn Midds into a three and D guy before they finally let Midds do his thing during the title run.

[BigO]

Not sure how serious you can take someone that says they care about the data a lot but calls Kuzma a target and someone that gives the team a chance to create mismatch lineups and brings versatility to the team.

Please, oh please, someone post the data that Horst is referring to with Kuzma? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a lick of data you can find that proves Kuzma is a plus player that a winning team needs to thrive..

That’s frustrating. Unless, of course, I’m actually wrong and there is data somewhere that supports Kyle Kuzma? I’m betting against that, tho.

I thought he was fair with Kuzma. On the optimistic side, but fair.

Nah. He lied abou Kuzma, but I'll just assume he doesn't beleive a word of it. Plus-plus defender? No. Good regular season? No.

What is the obvious contradiction is that he says how good the Giannis/BP/Green/KPJ/Trent lineups were and how he believes in analytics and yet his coach played the worst possible lineup.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Not sure how serious you can take someone that says they care about the data a lot but calls Kuzma a target and someone that gives the team a chance to create mismatch lineups and brings versatility to the team.

Please, oh please, someone post the data that Horst is referring to with Kuzma? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a lick of data you can find that proves Kuzma is a plus player that a winning team needs to thrive..

That’s frustrating. Unless, of course, I’m actually wrong and there is data somewhere that supports Kyle Kuzma? I’m betting against that, tho.

Horst said positive things about Kuzma? Seriously what do you expect him to say? "Kuz is a terrible fit and we are actively looking to move him"?

Horst, and every other GM in the history of GM's, will talk up his team, talk up his players. It would be dumb to do otherwise. Of course it was hyperbole.

hopefully hes selling him to other gms using the exact same argument. you know if we hadnt played him out of position he woulda shined yada yada

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I'm excited for this team. Last year, I barely watched even though I had the games on. The year before, similar, even though I was stoked we traded for Dame.

The last two years, the team had no identity, which is crazy to say about a squad led by Giannis and Dame. Maybe not so crazy to say about a squad led by Doc.

Something different is brewing in cream city this year.

yes!!!! im hoping we have a team that plays hard and the right way. im imagining a FTD season with giannis in the Bogut role. whats the ceiling on that exactly i dont know but either way it couyld be fun again!!

[BigO]

It is interesting that in the part 1 interview he mentioned the front court rotation primarily being Turner/Giannis/Bobby/Sims, but then in this portion he says Kuzma needs to play more at the 4. I don't think Kuzma is being benched so I'm not sure how to read that

Saying the thing about Kuz allowing them to play big reeks of Kuz at the three lineups.

Also, I don’t get why people keep saying the best use of Kuz is backing up GA at the four when there are literally no minutes available unless you reduce GA or Bobby’s minutes and Kuz is significantly worse than both of them so that’s also not a solution.

The best use of Kuz if he’s horrifically still on the team to start the season is benched entirely and used only when GA is out as a backup four behind Bobby. I’d doubt Doc does that.

This is spot on. This nonsense of Kuzma at the 4 or 3 implies that it makes a difference. He's bad at either position. If he wants to redeem himself, do it in spot minutes in blowouts.

[ReasonablySober]

Not sure how serious you can take someone that says they care about the data a lot but calls Kuzma a target and someone that gives the team a chance to create mismatch lineups and brings versatility to the team.

Please, oh please, someone post the data that Horst is referring to with Kuzma? I’d be willing to bet that there isn’t a lick of data you can find that proves Kuzma is a plus player that a winning team needs to thrive..

That’s frustrating. Unless, of course, I’m actually wrong and there is data somewhere that supports Kyle Kuzma? I’m betting against that, tho.

I thought he was fair with Kuzma. On the optimistic side, but fair.

Nah. He lied abou Kuzma, but I'll just assume he doesn't beleive a word of it. Plus-plus defender? No. Good regular season? No.

What is the obvious contradiction is that he says how good the Giannis/BP/Green/KPJ/Trent lineups were and how he believes in analytics and yet his coach played the worst possible lineup.

The top three Kuzma lineups in terms of minutes had positive net ratings. One of the best lineups Doc ran was Kuzma's second highest used lineup and had a +12.4 net.