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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1781 » by soxperry » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:06 am

GoldenAntlers wrote:I'm excited for this team. Last year, I barely watched even though I had the games on. The year before, similar, even though I was stoked we traded for Dame.

The last two years, the team had no identity, which is crazy to say about a squad led by Giannis and Dame. Maybe not so crazy to say about a squad led by Doc.

Something different is brewing in cream city this year.


yeah, i feel you. i had season seats both years and last year i was just not very excited to go until KPJ started flashing

i'm going to be shocked if this team doesn't play its ass off.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1782 » by Baddy Chuck » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:08 am

Championship series 2020-21 - 112.9 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2019-20 - 119.1 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2018-19 - 114.7 touches per 100 possessions
Selfish Dame never giving Giannis the ball year 2024-25 - 115.8 touches per 100 possessions
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1783 » by th87 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:14 am

Prez wrote:I’m choosing to focus on the bits of that interview where Horst talked about how Kuzma is a 4 and Prince is a 3/4 and he’s aware of how good the KPJ/Green/GTJ/Giannis lineups were. Which makes it that much more infuriating that the pea brained doofus on the sidelines apparently wasn’t last year. Seems like that’s the vision Horst will be pushing which definitely raises my optimism level a bit.


Horst knows what's up. Also preferred Atkinson, which evidences a sound mind. This looks like a lineup preference put on record. Plus he just got an extension and the funding to pull off a mad scientist type move.

Think he has the keys.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1784 » by ShootingtheJ » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:34 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:Championship series 2020-21 - 112.9 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2019-20 - 119.1 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2018-19 - 114.7 touches per 100 possessions
Selfish Dame never giving Giannis the ball year 2024-25 - 115.8 touches per 100 possessions


No Middleton as 3rd playmaker and Giannis touches didn't skyrocket? Awful, I'm so happy they're done with that nonsense and are ready to give him the keys.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1785 » by Baddy Chuck » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:56 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:Championship series 2020-21 - 112.9 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2019-20 - 119.1 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2018-19 - 114.7 touches per 100 possessions
Selfish Dame never giving Giannis the ball year 2024-25 - 115.8 touches per 100 possessions


No Middleton as 3rd playmaker and Giannis touches didn't skyrocket? Awful, I'm so happy they're done with that nonsense and are ready to give him the keys.

In 2022-23 Middleton missed a 20 game stretch to start the season, came back for a few and then missed another 18 games.

Giannis' touches skyrocketed to 118.9 per 100 possessions in those missed games.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1786 » by tedbrogen » Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:31 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
BigO wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
I thought he was fair with Kuzma. On the optimistic side, but fair.


Nah. He lied abou Kuzma, but I'll just assume he doesn't beleive a word of it. Plus-plus defender? No. Good regular season? No.

What is the obvious contradiction is that he says how good the Giannis/BP/Green/KPJ/Trent lineups were and how he believes in analytics and yet his coach played the worst possible lineup.


The top three Kuzma lineups in terms of minutes had positive net ratings. One of the best lineups Doc ran was Kuzma's second highest used lineup and had a +12.4 net.


I’m going to need stats AND a highlight video to back that up.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1787 » by Profound23 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:52 am

tedbrogen wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
BigO wrote:
Nah. He lied abou Kuzma, but I'll just assume he doesn't beleive a word of it. Plus-plus defender? No. Good regular season? No.

What is the obvious contradiction is that he says how good the Giannis/BP/Green/KPJ/Trent lineups were and how he believes in analytics and yet his coach played the worst possible lineup.


The top three Kuzma lineups in terms of minutes had positive net ratings. One of the best lineups Doc ran was Kuzma's second highest used lineup and had a +12.4 net.


I’m going to need stats AND a highlight video to back that up.


Hence why some of these new age stats are meaningless
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1788 » by ReasonablySober » Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:55 am

Profound23 wrote:
tedbrogen wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
The top three Kuzma lineups in terms of minutes had positive net ratings. One of the best lineups Doc ran was Kuzma's second highest used lineup and had a +12.4 net.


I’m going to need stats AND a highlight video to back that up.


Hence why some of these new age stats are meaningless


I'd argue that stats are there to help us cut through bias, like being inclined to dislike a guy because he's kind of a dork and played for a loser.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1789 » by tedbrogen » Sat Jul 19, 2025 4:18 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
tedbrogen wrote:
I’m going to need stats AND a highlight video to back that up.


Hence why some of these new age stats are meaningless


I'd argue that stats are there to help us cut through bias, like being inclined to dislike a guy because he's kind of a dork and played for a loser.


Still waiting of that Kuz highlight video…
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1790 » by midranger » Sat Jul 19, 2025 4:18 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:Championship series 2020-21 - 112.9 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2019-20 - 119.1 touches per 100 possessions
MVP year 2018-19 - 114.7 touches per 100 possessions
Selfish Dame never giving Giannis the ball year 2024-25 - 115.8 touches per 100 possessions


No Middleton as 3rd playmaker and Giannis touches didn't skyrocket? Awful, I'm so happy they're done with that nonsense and are ready to give him the keys.

In 2022-23 Middleton missed a 20 game stretch to start the season, came back for a few and then missed another 18 games.

Giannis' touches skyrocketed to 118.9 per 100 possessions in those missed games.

It’s almost like some single issue posters don’t want facts. They just want vibes and the ability to stick to their priors.


Small mindedness at its best.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1791 » by ReasonablySober » Sat Jul 19, 2025 4:20 am

tedbrogen wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
Hence why some of these new age stats are meaningless


I'd argue that stats are there to help us cut through bias, like being inclined to dislike a guy because he's kind of a dork and played for a loser.


Still waiting of that Kuz highlight video…


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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1792 » by -Jragon- » Sat Jul 19, 2025 5:09 am

soxperry wrote:
GoldenAntlers wrote:I'm excited for this team. Last year, I barely watched even though I had the games on. The year before, similar, even though I was stoked we traded for Dame.

The last two years, the team had no identity, which is crazy to say about a squad led by Giannis and Dame. Maybe not so crazy to say about a squad led by Doc.

Something different is brewing in cream city this year.


yeah, i feel you. i had season seats both years and last year i was just not very excited to go until KPJ started flashing

i'm going to be shocked if this team doesn't play its ass off.


Hell yeah
ShootingtheJ wrote:This team needs more Middleton's, not less.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1793 » by -Jragon- » Sat Jul 19, 2025 5:28 am

If Giannis wants to average a triple double and try to eek out another MVP that way, he's going to need 3.5 more assists per game than last year, which tied his highest ever at 6.5 per game. He's going to need cutters in the game or some big to big passing, because counting on 3 point shooters to make that many is rough. The 2 man game with Turner is an interesting idea but I think we need more timing plays weakside that have cutters faking high and reversing for back cuts. In other words, good coaching and bbiq... good luck GA lol
ShootingtheJ wrote:This team needs more Middleton's, not less.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1794 » by ShootingtheJ » Sat Jul 19, 2025 6:31 am

midranger wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
No Middleton as 3rd playmaker and Giannis touches didn't skyrocket? Awful, I'm so happy they're done with that nonsense and are ready to give him the keys.

In 2022-23 Middleton missed a 20 game stretch to start the season, came back for a few and then missed another 18 games.

Giannis' touches skyrocketed to 118.9 per 100 possessions in those missed games.

It’s almost like some single issue posters don’t want facts. They just want vibes and the ability to stick to their priors.


Small mindedness at its best.


Did you read the numbers? Touches shrank under Dame. Also, he's using the skewed fullseason numbers to cheat, Giannis touches went up after Dames injury.

The "single issue" garbage is funny too. Yup, I'm single issue if you're ignore all my other posts. Today there was stuff about Summer League, did you watch? Stuff about our wing issue, you got a solution? Nah
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1795 » by ShootingtheJ » Sat Jul 19, 2025 6:43 am

I see so much about Prince and Kuzma bring played out of position. There's really almost no delineation in the responsibilities of 2s, 3s, and 4s in today's game. Bad bad are bad players. If a guy can't guard the ball, teams are simply going to use a ghost screen to get that player switched on to the ball.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1796 » by th87 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 6:53 am

emunney wrote:
raferfenix wrote:Highlights from Horst interview part 2 from Eric Nehm:

From an analytics perspective, I care a great deal about the data; you know that. You want a big enough sample size where it’s not a bet, but a certainty. I don’t know that we have that level of sample size on some of those lineups yet, but I will tell you that in the playoffs and throughout the course of the regular season, some of our highest net rating lineups, both because they were elite offensively and they were very good defensively, had AJ Green, Gary Trent, Giannis, Kevin Porter Jr. and Bobby Portis in them. And, in fact, the AJ, Gary, Kevin, and Giannis lineup, that four-man lineup, was as good as any four-man lineup against the Pacers the entire playoffs.


I think Gary Trent had his two best games of the season, maybe, in our two most important games of the season. In two closeout opportunities, the guy played unbelievable. And AJ Green was unbelievable also, and I think that says a lot about them. And don’t forget, these guys are 25, 26 years old, so they’re just entering their prime. And so I think the best is in front of those guys. I’m happy about them. They’re not just shooters. They’re tough, physical guys that can grind and defend, make a play off the bounce and those guys are going to be a lot better this year than they were last year.


we’ve already made the contact [with AJ Green about an extension]. AJ wants to be here, AJ wants to figure something out.


[KPJ is] another player that I think stepped up in the biggest moments in the playoffs. With no playoff experience, he came into a very hostile environment, pressure-loaded environment, and I thought was very, very good.

He plays well off of Giannis, and people forget that a few years ago he was one of the best catch-and-shoot 3-point shooters in the league. He’s big, he’s physical, he can create for himself, he can create for others and can make shots. And he grew defensively with us this year, and I think he’s very capable on that end.


Kyle was a target and nothing’s changed. I think Kyle gives us a chance to play fast, gives us a chance to be huge, play a lot of different big lineups. He’s a plus-plus defender at multiple positions and he’s a guy that offensively, when he plays with confidence and plays within the flow, is very impactful.

We still believe in Kyle. He struggled. He hadn’t been to the playoffs in a while either. And I thought he played great for us for most of the regular season after we acquired him and I think he struggled in the playoffs. And he would tell you that. Doc and I have already gone to L.A. to spend time with him. Doc’s gonna spend time with him again.

I think the biggest thing with Kyle is just getting the familiarity, working with our coaches in the off-season, being part of a training camp and just really building into a system where he understands where he’s gonna get his looks, how he can have his impact and where we can understand him better. He’s very, very good (at power forward). And so I think getting him more minutes at the four … is going to be helpful.

He’s a guy we believe in a lot, and I think he’s going to have a big year with us this year, just having continuity with a good team and a full offseason with a good team, which he hasn’t had in a while. So we’re excited for him.


I think our roster … is better suited for Taurean this year than it was last year. I think Taurean had a hell of a year for us.

He was one of the top five in the league in 3-point shooting. Again, a plus defender, a great professional, a great locker-room guy, just someone that you want to be part of your organization, but also can play. He played most of the year guarding ones and twos and being guarded by twos and threes and he should be like a wing-forward, like a three-four. And the way that our team is built now, he’s gonna have a lot more of those matchups.


I felt like it was a tough negotiation with [Bobby’s] agent, Mark Bartelstein, who I love in this business as much as anybody, and I thought we got to the right place. But it was a tough negotiation.

Bobby chose us. Bobby wasn’t short on options, but he wanted to be here.


People probably don’t think about it a lot, but Ryan had a decision midway through this season to play or not with a pretty serious shoulder situation and he played. That just shows you how tough he is and how committed he is. He played a good half of our season and in the playoffs with a pretty painful shoulder situation, which he’s gotten taken care of. It’s totally resolved. He is totally healthy now, and that alone I think is going to give him more confidence in fighting through screens defensively and taking hits offensively.

But he is a big guard that’s physical, that can shoot. He’s been coming on as a playmaker, can finish in traffic, and is a good defender on the ball, which we want. I say this all the time and I say this with affection because he is one of my favorite people and I think he’ll love this shout-out. he reminds me of George Hill. I think he has a George Hill-type career in front of him and that’s high, high praise in my opinion because G-Hill is one of the best people that I’ve been around.

For us to be able to invest in him, give him a deal that keeps him with us for a couple of years, it’s a bit of a bridge deal. He’s got a chance to outplay it, and we’ll take care of him, we hope to figure it out at the end, but it gives him some security that I think he’s earned. I think Ryan was an important pick-up for us. Doc was pushing for the Ryan pick-up. It’s something that we wanted to figure out.


I hope he takes this as an affectionate thing, and this is true, when I saw the idea of Cole Anthony, him being free and our chance to get him, I think he’s like a guard version of Bobby Portis. I think he can bring so much swag and energy to our team.

He’s capable of winning a game by himself any given night. And I think he’ll grow in our system having less possession-by-possession pressure on him playing with Giannis and playing in Doc’s system and Doc having been a point guard and being able to mentor him the way he has with Kevin Porter Jr. and Ryan Rollins.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6497810/2025/07/18/jon-horst-milwaukee-bucks-interview-exclusive-nba/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=6188822&source=dailyemail


Is it at all weird how many of our posts are echoed in these? Does Horst post here? <looks at hands frantically> AM I HORST


I feel like he's one of us, or possibly a former poster.

I definitely recall the board majority - long before they occurred - proposing moves for Budenholzer, Bledsoe, Mirotic, Holiday, Bogdanovic, Tucker, Crowder, Lillard and probably some I forgot. The price didn't always match, but he'd get his guy.

The moves that seemed dumb ended up cost-cutting moves, like Parker, Brogdon, and DDV - and possibly a Lasry directive (no excuses, as he should've found better).

Then by all accounts he wanted Atkinson (also a board favorite), but was likely overruled to appease Giannis for Griffin, and Haslam for Doc (who could've been behind Kuzma, as it isn't on brand for everything we know about Horst). Even firing Griffin 40 games in was a board consensus. Same with firing Bud.

He is now in the midst of trying to convince Haslam he was right all along, which could mean a slow start means Doc is out.

No idea what's up with his drafting, however. Maybe we need to be more active in those discussions.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1797 » by tedbrogen » Sat Jul 19, 2025 7:47 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:I see so much about Prince and Kuzma bring played out of position. There's really almost no delineation in the responsibilities of 2s, 3s, and 4s in today's game. Bad bad are bad players. If a guy can't guard the ball, teams are simply going to use a ghost screen to get that player switched on to the ball.


I completely agree, Kuzma is a bad player. He is horribly inefficient on offense and even though he can guard in one on one, he gets lost in rotations. So he’s a liability on both ends no matter how you slice it. He might have had a positive net rating when sharing the floor with Giannis but that speaks to Giannis’ greatness, not Kuz. It’s why I’d completely bench him and only use him as a backup when GA is resting, and only then because he MIGHT be better than Nance.

Prince is not quite as bad as long as he is top five in the league in hitting threes. But he can’t cover quick guards so he is easy to play off the floor. If he’s part of your bench unit and plays less than 20mpg, he won’t actively hurt you in most games. If you’re starting him, actively putting him in spots where he absolutely has to cover quick guards (like starting him with a horrible defensive PG, two PFs, and a dinosaur center), and giving him starters minutes, then he’s a liability and the coach doing that is an idiot. And unfortunately for us, until proven otherwise, Doc and Ham are dumb-dumbs.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1798 » by drone3 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 9:42 am

Horst sounded like an echo of the majority of our posts... Having Prince and Kuz off the bench at the 3 and 4 will hopefully be realised.

Did he mention Ajax?
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1799 » by Baddy Chuck » Sat Jul 19, 2025 11:00 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
midranger wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:In 2022-23 Middleton missed a 20 game stretch to start the season, came back for a few and then missed another 18 games.

Giannis' touches skyrocketed to 118.9 per 100 possessions in those missed games.

It’s almost like some single issue posters don’t want facts. They just want vibes and the ability to stick to their priors.


Small mindedness at its best.


Did you read the numbers? Touches shrank under Dame. Also, he's using the skewed fullseason numbers to cheat, Giannis touches went up after Dames injury.

Being unironically told I'm "cheating" by a grown ass man talking basketball on the internet is so **** funny but not unexpected from the dude who tallies up wins and losses in his mind over these things and coincidently has never lost. It's even funnier knowing I used Giannis' most used seasons, a small sample size of a playoffs where overall he was under 100 touches per 100 AND not doing what you said but actually using only the games up until Dame's blood clot last season. If I really wanted to go for the W I'd have added other years like this to show even further how much Dame didn't "not let Giannis have the ball":

2022-23 - 112.0 touches per 100 possessions (107.7 after Midds' return 1/23/03)
2021-22 - 104.5 touches per 100 possessions
2020-21 - 97.8 touches per 100 possessions

At his PEAK Giannis averaged 3.3 more touches per 100 possessions than with Lillard on the squad last season. A whopping 2.77% "shrinkage". Laughable statement made.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76 

Post#1800 » by ShootingtheJ » Sat Jul 19, 2025 12:55 pm

tedbrogen wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:I see so much about Prince and Kuzma bring played out of position. There's really almost no delineation in the responsibilities of 2s, 3s, and 4s in today's game. Bad bad are bad players. If a guy can't guard the ball, teams are simply going to use a ghost screen to get that player switched on to the ball.


I completely agree, Kuzma is a bad player. He is horribly inefficient on offense and even though he can guard in one on one, he gets lost in rotations. So he’s a liability on both ends no matter how you slice it. He might have had a positive net rating when sharing the floor with Giannis but that speaks to Giannis’ greatness, not Kuz. It’s why I’d completely bench him and only use him as a backup when GA is resting, and only then because he MIGHT be better than Nance.

Prince is not quite as bad as long as he is top five in the league in hitting threes. But he can’t cover quick guards so he is easy to play off the floor. If he’s part of your bench unit and plays less than 20mpg, he won’t actively hurt you in most games. If you’re starting him, actively putting him in spots where he absolutely has to cover quick guards (like starting him with a horrible defensive PG, two PFs, and a dinosaur center), and giving him starters minutes, then he’s a liability and the coach doing that is an idiot. And unfortunately for us, until proven otherwise, Doc and Ham are dumb-dumbs.


Agree. Prince doesn't rebound, handle the ball, or pass. There's just not much there.

His shot is accurate, but his release is too slow. I'm surprised he's back considering Horst (and me) has had an ephiany about the correlation between shot trigger quickness and playoff shooting success. I wonder if they'll work to speed his release?

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