BOS MIL CHI CHA DET

[165bows]

I think the current value of Ivey is higher than what the Pistons are receiving. If the Pistons move Ivey, it’s in a trade up for a player of greater impact. This deal doesn’t do it. Trading Ivey for lesser parts, no real value able draft compensation and taking on bad salary makes zero sense.

Pritchard and a pick is not enough value for Ivey?
That’s insane thinking to me.
How is Ivey any better than Pritchard?
He is 4 years younger than her so there is that upside that is worth some value, but the pick more than makes up for that imo.
I get that you might want to include Ivey and picks for a player of higher impact, but this is great value for Ivey. You could turn this package around for a player of higher impact.

Ivey is one of the best athletes in the league. He had a wasted year w a historically bad coach, followed up w 30 great games and then the broken leg. This year will be his coming out party. His ceiling is so much higher than Pritchard’s.

What in particular keeps him from being Jalen Green 2.0?

[theBigLip]

Pritchard and a pick is not enough value for Ivey?
That’s insane thinking to me.
How is Ivey any better than Pritchard?
He is 4 years younger than her so there is that upside that is worth some value, but the pick more than makes up for that imo.
I get that you might want to include Ivey and picks for a player of higher impact, but this is great value for Ivey. You could turn this package around for a player of higher impact.

Ivey is one of the best athletes in the league. He had a wasted year w a historically bad coach, followed up w 30 great games and then the broken leg. This year will be his coming out party. His ceiling is so much higher than Pritchard’s.

What in particular keeps him from being Jalen Green 2.0?

He wants to play D.

[Billl]

Pritchard and a pick is not enough value for Ivey?
That’s insane thinking to me.
How is Ivey any better than Pritchard?
He is 4 years younger than her so there is that upside that is worth some value, but the pick more than makes up for that imo.
I get that you might want to include Ivey and picks for a player of higher impact, but this is great value for Ivey. You could turn this package around for a player of higher impact.

Ivey is one of the best athletes in the league. He had a wasted year w a historically bad coach, followed up w 30 great games and then the broken leg. This year will be his coming out party. His ceiling is so much higher than Pritchard’s.

What in particular keeps him from being Jalen Green 2.0?

That was definitely a concern his first 2 seasons. Then he shot 46/41 splits before the injury last year. And while I wouldn't call him a good defender, I'd say he is already ahead of green. i mean, if Jalen Green shot a good percentage and played defense, he would be a heck of a player.

[165bows]

Ivey is one of the best athletes in the league. He had a wasted year w a historically bad coach, followed up w 30 great games and then the broken leg. This year will be his coming out party. His ceiling is so much higher than Pritchard’s.

What in particular keeps him from being Jalen Green 2.0?

That was definitely a concern his first 2 seasons. Then he shot 46/41 splits before the injury last year. And while I wouldn't call him a good defender, I'd say he is already ahead of green. i mean, if Jalen Green shot a good percentage and played defense, he would be a heck of a player.

Still below average efficiency scorer even in that small sample.

I get you guys are optimistic but this off season was exhibit A for small shooting guards not being that valuable.

[brackdan70]

What in particular keeps him from being Jalen Green 2.0?

That was definitely a concern his first 2 seasons. Then he shot 46/41 splits before the injury last year. And while I wouldn't call him a good defender, I'd say he is already ahead of green. i mean, if Jalen Green shot a good percentage and played defense, he would be a heck of a player.

Still below average efficiency scorer even in that small sample.

I get you guys are optimistic but this off season was exhibit A for small shooting guards not being that valuable.

Yeah and Pritchard was 47/41 for the season and not far off that for his career….and can also handle and defend the perimeter.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think gambling on Ivey's upside makes more sense for Detroit than selling him off like this.

I think the current value of Ivey is higher than what the Pistons are receiving. If the Pistons move Ivey, it’s in a trade up for a player of greater impact. This deal doesn’t do it. Trading Ivey for lesser parts, no real value able draft compensation and taking on bad salary makes zero sense.

Yep, we need a path to another star right now, not depth. That means either packaging Ivey with other assets to get there or hoping Ivey becomes one or holding onto Ivey and trading something else to get there. But this direction doesn't really make sense.

[Djh7475]

I'll just say this; Respectfully, this trade will look absurd by December.

Ivey is by far and away the best player listed, and he's combined with Duncan, for spare parts. Also for Grant Williams. Good grief.

It looks absurd now.

Agreed, why is Boston trading good players for Ivey when they already have the 4 year older version in Simons?

Ivey is actually only 2.5 years older and showed far more at Ivey’s age than he ever has. Ivey’s ceiling gets overrated substantially because he’s a freak athlete, but he’s still not a good player. Even his “best 30 games” last year weren’t better than Simons’ averages over the last 3 years.

[Snakebites]

It would seem the broader Piston community values Ivey a lot more than I do.

I guess I have to hope they’re right and I’m wrong. By my valuation of him I do this. And it’s not even a hard call.

I don’t think we’re trading Ivey so I’m hoping this post ages like milk.

[Djh7475]

Detroit gets way too much, and their fans all seem to be opposed to the OP. Upgrading from Duncan/Ivey to Hauser/Pritchard (from both a talent and contract standpoint) and getting a 1st and a solid 3&D PF seems like a no brainer. This drastically improves the floor spacing around Cade.

[giannis and 1]

Bucks pass. Absolutely zero interest in Simons.

[zeebneeb]

It looks absurd now.

Agreed, why is Boston trading good players for Ivey when they already have the 4 year older version in Simons?

Ivey is actually only 2.5 years older and showed far more at Ivey’s age than he ever has. Ivey’s ceiling gets overrated substantially because he’s a freak athlete, but he’s still not a good player. Even his “best 30 games” last year weren’t better than Simons’ averages over the last 3 years.

This post makes no sense. To be overrated, you have to be a topic of discussion. No one, but a few Piston fans, and the people in this thread even remember he exists.

"But he's still not a good player."

What exactly is your criteria for this statement? Just got a feeling about it?

Also, as pointed out in this very thread, context is extraordinarily important;


"Even his “best 30 games” last year weren’t better than Simons’ averages over the last 3 years."

Iveys second year was led by the biggest coaching asshat in NBA history, in Monty Williams, who from the jump, had it out for Ivey. He started Killian Hayes over him, which is impossibly stupid. It destroyed Iveys entire second season.

Simons also also didn't even take off until his 4th season.

[Djh7475]

I never said he was overrated. I said his ceiling gets overrated because he’s a freak athlete and that he’s not a good player because that’s what I believe. Considering I saw some big name analyst post about an Ivey and D. White swap with filler not long ago (to take a shot at his upside), it makes a lot of sense.

I don’t think he’s a good player because he’s an undersized guard who isn’t above average on either end. He puts up decent numbers because his usage rate is crazy, but watching him play and looking at his numbers, he’s just the type of inefficient chucker and turnover machine that teams are dying to get rid of.

I only brought Simons up because he’s mentioned in the OP. I do think he’s a better player today, but I think Ivey has the chance to be better. But I was trying to make the point that swapping Ivey and filler for Simons when both are expiring contracts shouldn’t cost much to do if you aren’t seeing the cap savings.

Agreed, why is Boston trading good players for Ivey when they already have the 4 year older version in Simons?

Ivey is actually only 2.5 years older and showed far more at Ivey’s age than he ever has. Ivey’s ceiling gets overrated substantially because he’s a freak athlete, but he’s still not a good player. Even his “best 30 games” last year weren’t better than Simons’ averages over the last 3 years.

This post makes no sense. To be overrated, you have to be a topic of discussion. No one, but a few Piston fans, and the people in this thread even remember he exists.

"But he's still not a good player."

What exactly is your criteria for this statement? Just got a feeling about it?

Also, as pointed out in this very thread, context is extraordinarily important;


"Even his “best 30 games” last year weren’t better than Simons’ averages over the last 3 years."

Iveys second year was led by the biggest coaching asshat in NBA history, in Monty Williams, who from the jump, had it out for Ivey. He started Killian Hayes over him, which is impossibly stupid. It destroyed Iveys entire second season.

Simons also also didn't even take off until his 4th season.

[Crymson]

DET OUT: J. Ivey, D. Robinson
DET IN: G. Williams, P. Pritchard, S. Hauser, MIL '26 FRP (TOP10 PROTECTED)
[i]get a true PG, a cheaper shooter than D.Robinson (17 M$ VS 10 M$ of Hauser), draft compensation for extra money received in incoming salary

As a Pistons fan, I'll weigh in solely from Detroit's perspective. That'll be a no. Ivey is a high-ceiling prospect who could well wind up to be a strong scorer. Robinson is a more versatile shooter and a better scorer than Hauser, and cost is no object; he's guaranteed for only $2m next season, he won't be making much more than Hauser even if the Pistons opt to fully guarantee his salary, and -- as mentioned -- he provides more value anyway.

Pritchard isn't "a true PG," he's a bench flamethrower. He's out there primarily to shoot, and that worked fine in the Celtics' system. He's no lead handler, he's not substantively better as a handler than Ivey or LeVert, and he's not worth losing Ivey.

Grant Williams, needless to say, is just not of interest. Milwaukee's FRP is a least-favorable pick between the Bucks and the Hawks and will almost certainly end up being Atlanta's, and the Hawks have a pretty good roster.

[redslastlaugh]

Sam Hauser takes a beating so often on the trade board, lol

out of curiosity, by what metric does Duncan Robinson provide more value than Sam Hauser in 2025?
Here is the darko graphs of the two of them
https://ibb.co/qYY6TQ8N

DET OUT: J. Ivey, D. Robinson
DET IN: G. Williams, P. Pritchard, S. Hauser, MIL '26 FRP (TOP10 PROTECTED)
[i]get a true PG, a cheaper shooter than D.Robinson (17 M$ VS 10 M$ of Hauser), draft compensation for extra money received in incoming salary

As a Pistons fan, I'll weigh in solely from Detroit's perspective. That'll be a no. Ivey is a high-ceiling prospect who could well wind up to be a strong scorer. Robinson is a more versatile shooter and a better scorer than Hauser, and cost is no object; he's guaranteed for only $2m next season, he won't be making much more than Hauser even if the Pistons opt to fully guarantee his salary, and -- as mentioned -- he provides more value anyway.

[theBigLip]

Sam Hauser takes a beating so often on the trade board, lol

out of curiosity, by what metric does Duncan Robinson provide more value than Sam Hauser in 2025?
Here is the darko graphs of the two of them
https://ibb.co/qYY6TQ8N

DET OUT: J. Ivey, D. Robinson
DET IN: G. Williams, P. Pritchard, S. Hauser, MIL '26 FRP (TOP10 PROTECTED)
[i]get a true PG, a cheaper shooter than D.Robinson (17 M$ VS 10 M$ of Hauser), draft compensation for extra money received in incoming salary

As a Pistons fan, I'll weigh in solely from Detroit's perspective. That'll be a no. Ivey is a high-ceiling prospect who could well wind up to be a strong scorer. Robinson is a more versatile shooter and a better scorer than Hauser, and cost is no object; he's guaranteed for only $2m next season, he won't be making much more than Hauser even if the Pistons opt to fully guarantee his salary, and -- as mentioned -- he provides more value anyway.

I don’t know anything about Darko stats, but I do know something about statistics in general. Celtics had a much better team than Miami the last few years, so I’m guessing Hauser got more open looks than Robinson. Is that compensated in the Darko stats?

[brackdan70]

Sam Hauser takes a beating so often on the trade board, lol

out of curiosity, by what metric does Duncan Robinson provide more value than Sam Hauser in 2025?
Here is the darko graphs of the two of them
https://ibb.co/qYY6TQ8N

As a Pistons fan, I'll weigh in solely from Detroit's perspective. That'll be a no. Ivey is a high-ceiling prospect who could well wind up to be a strong scorer. Robinson is a more versatile shooter and a better scorer than Hauser, and cost is no object; he's guaranteed for only $2m next season, he won't be making much more than Hauser even if the Pistons opt to fully guarantee his salary, and -- as mentioned -- he provides more value anyway.

I don’t know anything about Darko stats, but I do know something about statistics in general. Celtics had a much better team than Miami the last few years, so I’m guessing Hauser got more open looks than Robinson. Is that compensated in the Darko stats?

Darko, LEBRON, EPM are all adjusted for various things like teammates, competition, etc.
These advanced metrics attempt provide a better look at a player’s actual value than box score derived stats.
Hauser is clearly a positive impact guy, and Robinson is clearly a negative impact guy.

[Laimbeer]

I mean, Ivey for Pritchard alone is a discussion. Hauser is a cheaper DRob. Plus a first.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[theBigLip]

Sam Hauser takes a beating so often on the trade board, lol

out of curiosity, by what metric does Duncan Robinson provide more value than Sam Hauser in 2025?
Here is the darko graphs of the two of them
https://ibb.co/qYY6TQ8N

I don’t know anything about Darko stats, but I do know something about statistics in general. Celtics had a much better team than Miami the last few years, so I’m guessing Hauser got more open looks than Robinson. Is that compensated in the Darko stats?

Darko, LEBRON, EPM are all adjusted for various things like teammates, competition, etc.
These advanced metrics attempt provide a better look at a player’s actual value than box score derived stats.
Hauser is clearly a positive impact guy, and Robinson is clearly a negative impact guy.

From my friend ChatGPT

Shooting
• 3PT Shooting
• Hauser: Career 3P% ~42.5%, mostly catch-and-shoot, very comfortable spacing the floor from deep (even beyond 27 feet). Less volume than Robinson but hyper-efficient.
• Robinson: Career 3P% ~40.3%, but on MUCH higher volume and tougher attempts. Known for movement shooting (off screens, handoffs, quick releases).
• Shot Profile
• Hauser: Primarily spot-up. He isn’t running off pin-downs or handoffs as much as Robinson.
• Robinson: At his peak (2019–2021), he was one of the league’s best movement shooters (think Klay-lite), constantly running off screens and stressing defenses.

Offensive Game Beyond Shooting
• Hauser
• Limited self-creation. Won’t attack closeouts as much; prefers to swing the ball or shoot.
• More of a floor-spacing cog in Boston’s offense.
• Robinson
• Developed some off-the-dribble counters (pump fakes into drives or floaters) especially after teams started overplaying his shot.
• Better passer out of movement.

Defense
• Hauser
• Surprisingly solid defender for a shooter. He’s stronger, can hold up better on switches, and uses his size to contest shots. Boston trusts him in their defensive schemes.
• Robinson
• Below-average defender. Opposing teams often hunt him in pick-and-rolls. He’s improved with effort and positioning, but still a liability in certain matchups.

[redslastlaugh]

Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us- you have any thoughts of- of your own on this matter? Or do- is that your thing, you come into a bar, you read some obscure passage and then you pretend- you pawn it off as your own- your own idea just to impress some girls? Embarrass my friend?

I don’t know anything about Darko stats, but I do know something about statistics in general. Celtics had a much better team than Miami the last few years, so I’m guessing Hauser got more open looks than Robinson. Is that compensated in the Darko stats?

Darko, LEBRON, EPM are all adjusted for various things like teammates, competition, etc.
These advanced metrics attempt provide a better look at a player’s actual value than box score derived stats.
Hauser is clearly a positive impact guy, and Robinson is clearly a negative impact guy.

From my friend ChatGPT

Shooting
• 3PT Shooting
• Hauser: Career 3P% ~42.5%, mostly catch-and-shoot, very comfortable spacing the floor from deep (even beyond 27 feet). Less volume than Robinson but hyper-efficient.
• Robinson: Career 3P% ~40.3%, but on MUCH higher volume and tougher attempts. Known for movement shooting (off screens, handoffs, quick releases).
• Shot Profile
• Hauser: Primarily spot-up. He isn’t running off pin-downs or handoffs as much as Robinson.
• Robinson: At his peak (2019–2021), he was one of the league’s best movement shooters (think Klay-lite), constantly running off screens and stressing defenses.

Offensive Game Beyond Shooting
• Hauser
• Limited self-creation. Won’t attack closeouts as much; prefers to swing the ball or shoot.
• More of a floor-spacing cog in Boston’s offense.
• Robinson
• Developed some off-the-dribble counters (pump fakes into drives or floaters) especially after teams started overplaying his shot.
• Better passer out of movement.

Defense
• Hauser
• Surprisingly solid defender for a shooter. He’s stronger, can hold up better on switches, and uses his size to contest shots. Boston trusts him in their defensive schemes.
• Robinson
• Below-average defender. Opposing teams often hunt him in pick-and-rolls. He’s improved with effort and positioning, but still a liability in certain matchups.

[TPA]

Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us- you have any thoughts of- of your own on this matter? Or do- is that your thing, you come into a bar, you read some obscure passage and then you pretend- you pawn it off as your own- your own idea just to impress some girls? Embarrass my friend?

Darko, LEBRON, EPM are all adjusted for various things like teammates, competition, etc.
These advanced metrics attempt provide a better look at a player’s actual value than box score derived stats.
Hauser is clearly a positive impact guy, and Robinson is clearly a negative impact guy.

From my friend ChatGPT

Shooting
• 3PT Shooting
• Hauser: Career 3P% ~42.5%, mostly catch-and-shoot, very comfortable spacing the floor from deep (even beyond 27 feet). Less volume than Robinson but hyper-efficient.
• Robinson: Career 3P% ~40.3%, but on MUCH higher volume and tougher attempts. Known for movement shooting (off screens, handoffs, quick releases).
• Shot Profile
• Hauser: Primarily spot-up. He isn’t running off pin-downs or handoffs as much as Robinson.
• Robinson: At his peak (2019–2021), he was one of the league’s best movement shooters (think Klay-lite), constantly running off screens and stressing defenses.

Offensive Game Beyond Shooting
• Hauser
• Limited self-creation. Won’t attack closeouts as much; prefers to swing the ball or shoot.
• More of a floor-spacing cog in Boston’s offense.
• Robinson
• Developed some off-the-dribble counters (pump fakes into drives or floaters) especially after teams started overplaying his shot.
• Better passer out of movement.

Defense
• Hauser
• Surprisingly solid defender for a shooter. He’s stronger, can hold up better on switches, and uses his size to contest shots. Boston trusts him in their defensive schemes.
• Robinson
• Below-average defender. Opposing teams often hunt him in pick-and-rolls. He’s improved with effort and positioning, but still a liability in certain matchups.

Says the guy who posted the Darko link before offering any personal critique of his own.