2001 Lakers V 1996 Bulls but with Peak Kobe

[Rust_Cohle]

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I watched both of their careers.

I respect your opinion but there is no way I'm taking Pippen over Kobe. Especially Pippen without Jordan who had to constantly uplift Scottie. Mental meltdowns!

Look how Scottie can't hold a job in tv now? Nobody wants to work with him.

Scottie lost to Kobe so many times in the playoffs without Jordan. By all means, refresh your memory.

I do agree that some of Pippen’s meltdowns get glossed over quite often thanks to the MJ hookup.

I don’t think Scottie is a better player than Kobe, I just think Kobe wouldn’t be having a great series due to who was guarding him but it’s been fun debating this hypothetical, and 2001 was definitely one of Kobe’s better finals runs

[Rust_Cohle]

For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker

And for the thousandth time, that isn't actually factually accurate.

I do agree that Pippen would give him as hard a time as any individual could, and that the Chicago team defense would be problematic for him, though.

Ehhhh


Career FG%: 44.7% — below average for a shooting guard

Career TS% (True Shooting %): 55.0% — about average for his era, but not elite.

eFG% (Effective FG%): 48.2% — again, not great by modern standards.

He was a high volume shooter, and while still a good player, he’s been abysmal with shooting for many finals performances

[OdomFan]

One interesting thing about this matchup would be Horace Grant on the 2001 Lakers. His history with the Bulls from the first 3 peat might play a part in the Lakers getting the W, but I think the Bulls can pull it off in 6. Rodman would do decent enough on Shaq, MJ on Kobe, Pippen on Fox.

An older Harper vs an even older Harper is also an amusing thought.

[HMFFL]

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I watched both of their careers.

I respect your opinion but there is no way I'm taking Pippen over Kobe. Especially Pippen without Jordan who had to constantly uplift Scottie. Mental meltdowns!

Look how Scottie can't hold a job in tv now? Nobody wants to work with him.

Scottie lost to Kobe so many times in the playoffs without Jordan. By all means, refresh your memory.

I do agree that some of Pippen’s meltdowns get glossed over quite often thanks to the MJ hookup.

I don’t think Scottie is a better player than Kobe, I just think Kobe wouldn’t be having a great series due to who was guarding him but it’s been fun debating this hypothetical, and 2001 was definitely one of Kobe’s better finals runs

I voted that the Bulls win.

Dennis Rodman and Pippen would be a big problem. Of course, Pippen, Rodman, and Jordan would be a problem together for Kobe.

I just do not believe Pippen would be much of an issue by himself for Kobe. I respect that you disagree.

[ScrantonBulls]

The irony in you calling a player overhyped and acting like Kobe is the most unstoppable force in NBA History.

Kobe had MORE THAN HALF of his finals appearances shooting a pathetic sub 41% but yes, he would “eat Pippen alive” just wtf man good lord

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

[Optms]

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

You mean the same Pippen that was torched by a 20 year old Kobe during the 2000 WCF?

Also, the same Pippen vs a younger Kobe

Watch on YouTube

Pippen never had to guard anyone remotely as close as skilled or as athletic as Kobe during his prime. When he did, he looked like just another guy on Kobe. And that was a pre-prime Kobe nonethless. Not impressed.

[Yank3525]

For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker

And for the thousandth time, that isn't actually factually accurate.

I do agree that Pippen would give him as hard a time as any individual could, and that the Chicago team defense would be problematic for him, though.

Yeah, it is a weird myth that Kobe was inefficient. He was always well above league average during his prime. It is funny how that poster is Spurs fan. Duncan's TS% career wise is about the same as Kobe's.

[Masigond]

You mean the same Pippen that was torched by a 20 year old Kobe during the 2000 WCF?

Also, the same Pippen vs a younger Kobe

Watch on YouTube

Pippen never had to guard anyone remotely as close as skilled or as athletic as Kobe during his prime. When he did, he looked like just another guy on Kobe. And that was a pre-prime Kobe nonethless. Not impressed.

You think that 34 year old Pippen was still the same player as back in 1996 (pre-injuries, 2nd most votes for DPOY)? Come on...

[Yank3525]

For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker

And for the thousandth time, that isn't actually factually accurate.

I do agree that Pippen would give him as hard a time as any individual could, and that the Chicago team defense would be problematic for him, though.

Ehhhh


Career FG%: 44.7% — below average for a shooting guard

Career TS% (True Shooting %): 55.0% — about average for his era, but not elite.

eFG% (Effective FG%): 48.2% — again, not great by modern standards.

He was a high volume shooter, and while still a good player, he’s been abysmal with shooting for many finals performances

Wrong.

Average TS% in the early 2000s was about 52% and after rule changes in 2005 it hovered around 53-54% for the rest of Kobe's prime. Kobe was always around +2-4. His TS% was not that different from Wade or even first Cavs run LeBron.

[tsherkin]

Career TS% (True Shooting %): 55.0% — about average for his era, but not elite.

A +3% rTS guy for a decade of prime, there were not that many guys who carried volume with better relative efficiency. There were some guys who were typically in the lower 20s who had higher efficiency (Corey Maggette and Ray Allen come to mind), but not a large number at all.

eFG% (Effective FG%): 48.2% — again, not great by modern standards.

Comparing him to today's standards of eFG% isn't the right way to play it, though, because the league is different now than it was than. League-average FG% in the RA is like 10% higher than it was in 2004, which is a meaningful reason why 2FG% is so much higher, as well as eFG%.

He definitely wasn't perfect and he had some rough Finals performances... and some brilliant WCF performances and others in the earlier rounds. It just isn't accurate to call him an "inefficient chucker." His 2006 season, for example, was similar to Jordan's 87 season in terms of volume/efficiency combination, which isn't discussed as often as it could be.

His career just doesn't match the idea of him being "inefficient." You might remember him from, say, his last season, but that didn't define his prime at all.

[Rust_Cohle]

For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker

And for the thousandth time, that isn't actually factually accurate.

I do agree that Pippen would give him as hard a time as any individual could, and that the Chicago team defense would be problematic for him, though.

Yeah, it is a weird myth that Kobe was inefficient. He was always well above league average during his prime. It is funny how that poster is Spurs fan. Duncan's TS% career wise is about the same as Kobe's.

Comparing ts% for a guard vs a big is ridiculous when 3 pointers away that percentage quite a bit. And Duncan was a far more efficient player than Kobe. Duncan has a better efg as well

[Rust_Cohle]

Career TS% (True Shooting %): 55.0% — about average for his era, but not elite.

A +3% rTS guy for a decade of prime, there were not that many guys who carried volume with better relative efficiency. There were some guys who were typically in the lower 20s who had higher efficiency (Corey Maggette and Ray Allen come to mind), but not a large number at all.

eFG% (Effective FG%): 48.2% — again, not great by modern standards.

Comparing him to today's standards of eFG% isn't the right way to play it, though, because the league is different now than it was than. League-average FG% in the RA is like 10% higher than it was in 2004, which is a meaningful reason why 2FG% is so much higher, as well as eFG%.

He definitely wasn't perfect and he had some rough Finals performances... and some brilliant WCF performances and others in the earlier rounds. It just isn't accurate to call him an "inefficient chucker." His 2006 season, for example, was similar to Jordan's 87 season in terms of volume/efficiency combination, which isn't discussed as often as it could be.

His career just doesn't match the idea of him being "inefficient." You might remember him from, say, his last season, but that didn't define his prime at all.

His 2006 season was awesome considering he had a horrible supporting cast but quitting in that game 7 against Phoenix was brutal

[Rust_Cohle]

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

Cheers buddy

[Rust_Cohle]

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

Robinson and Duncan say otherwise.

Swept him on the way to a ring in 1999 and ended the lakers dynasty in 2003. Kobe would’ve been clobbered a lot more in the 2010’s by the spurs. Hell of a player, but spurs were a pain in the ass to him as well

[tsherkin]

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

Yeah, I mean, in as much as any individual defender was going to have success, Scottie would certainly have a shot. I think the deal with someone like Kobe is that straight-up defense was rarely the thing which was helpful, but in context with the team scheme, it would be a different story. And if Chicago abandoned the idea of trying to stop Shaq and focused on swarming Kobe and trying to get him into "let me shoot my way out of this" territory, that historically was a viable strategy. Especially if you had a slithery, athletic defender with good reach like Pippen to shade and hound him.

[Effigy]

I know +- isn't that telling overall but it is funny that Kobe's cumulative +- in the WCF for that whole 7 game series was -1.

[Handlez]

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

You mean the same Pippen that was torched by a 20 year old Kobe during the 2000 WCF?

Also, the same Pippen vs a younger Kobe

Watch on YouTube

Pippen never had to guard anyone remotely as close as skilled or as athletic as Kobe during his prime. When he did, he looked like just another guy on Kobe. And that was a pre-prime Kobe nonethless. Not impressed.

I remember watching Kobe vs Pip live on many occasions and Pip couldn't do much at all. Kobe ate him alive defensively.

Total mismatch and Kobe was a kid.

[Handlez]

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

Robinson and Duncan say otherwise.

Swept him on the way to a ring in 1999 and ended the lakers dynasty in 2003. Kobe would’ve been clobbered a lot more in the 2010’s by the spurs. Hell of a player, but spurs were a pain in the ass to him as well

01 playoffs Lakers 4-0 Kobe 33, 7, 7 on 51%. (Scored 6 more ppg than Shaq)

02 playoffs Lakers 4-1 Kobe 26, 5, 5 on 45%. (Scored 5 more ppg than Shaq)

03 playoffs Spurs 4-2 Kobe 32, 5, 4 on 43%. (Scored 7 more ppg than Shaq as Shaq was eaten alive defensively)

04 playoffs Lakers 4-2 Kobe 26, 6, 6 on 46%. (Scored 4 more ppg than Shaq)

08 playoffs Lakers 4-1 Kobe 29, 6, 4 on 53%. (Pau next highest scorer at 13ppg)

Kobe had plenty of success against the juggernaut Spurs.

[MacGill]

The only team that I believe could go toe to toe with the Bulls and win!! PS 01 LA is my GOAT play-off team.

[HMFFL]

I never said Kobe was all of that, you did, but word it as you want. Your brain seems to be playing mind games with you.

Speaking of the mind and mental state of players.

Yeah, give me Kobe. Much more talented than Scottie, more mentally tough, and Kobe has a better IQ for the game.

Nah, your brain is envisioning Kobe into something he absolutely wasn’t. Mamba mentality is the biggest crock of crap in NBA history. If quitting on your team for an entire game like he did in 2006 elimination game like Phoenix is elite mentality then oh boy, you really need to do a lot more research.

Pippen absolutely had his horrible playoff moments, but defensively he absolutely would’ve caused Kobe a lot of issues. For the hundredth time, Kobe was an inefficient chucker and shot a horrific sub 41% in more than half his finals. Put Pippen on him and Kobe would be asking for a trade or looking for an elite big man to bail him out by halftime.

I don't often agree with Rust, but what are we doing here? We're really arguing that prime Scottie Pippen would be a complete non factor on Kobe? Arguably the greatest wing defender of all time, the guy who helped anchor the defense on 6 championship teams. But he's going to do nothing while defending Kobe? Lol, sure. That's the exact person you want defending Kobe. GOAT wing defender with good length. Then MJ can focus on dominating offensively and not worry about guarding Kobe all game long.

Regardless of what you think, Pippen rarely beat Kobe without Jordan, and in one game, I remember Scottie playing roughly 40 minutes in a Western Finals game, but Scottie only scored 3 points. It was probably due to old age since Scottie was approaching his mid 30's...right?

Kobe probably averaged over an easy 20 points on Scottie. Scottie averaged less than 15ppg against Kobe in his career.