Kuminga sign and trade Bulls interest

[coldfish]

OK, I'll go out on a limb here.

First off, Okuro is a low end JAG. He is a big nothing burger. He is fine as a rotation player but you really don't want him in your top 6 or so. Having him should have nothing to do with Kuminga.

Kuminga had a down year last year. Here is his per 36 numbers the previous year at age 21:
21.9p 6.6r 3.0a 59.8%ts

You know what? I'll take that for $25m per year. I would even give up a protected first for him.

Giddey / Jones or Ayo
Coby / Huerter
Kuminga / Okuro
Matas / Noa
????

The Bulls would be starting to get big while maintaining some athleticism. The C spot is the big question mark.

This is where I'm at with it as well. Until we can prove we're a good enough FA draw to attract the big name established players, the name of the game should be stacking talent. We could do a lot worse than a young athlete who can create his own shot for 20+ a night. My only caveat is that I wouldn't do it unless we already have Giddey. Kuminga at $20-30 million isn't going to be an untradable albatross.

+1. The Bulls simply aren't going to draw big talent. They either need to slowly build a team or get lucky in the draft. Is Kuminga that guy? Probably not but at $25m per year I think its worth finding out.

[nomorezorro]

kuminga at $20+ million could absolutely be an albatross if he just continues to be a uni-scorer who struggles to play a supporting role and isn’t good enough to be the focal point of an offense.

dude was just benched for multiple playoff games on a team sorely lacking in depth. he couldn’t fit in next to steph curry. he got beat out for minutes by gui santos.

not saying there’s no upside there, but it is a very low probability bet

[2weekswithpay]

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[kodo]

I agree that at one point they were interested in Kuminga. Then another year of information came, and they weren't, but Kerr's quote is pretty relevant to us as well. How is a lineup of Kuminga + Giddey going to work? Two guys who both need the ball to be effective and provide no spacing for each other?

Kuminga could take every one of Vuc's shots as a frontcourt player and I'd be fine with that, and DNPing Vucevic. There was enough shots for Vuc to average 19 ppg. We have to be sending out enough contract to match his new contract BYC, which seems like it would be Patrick or Vuc. Giddey was a 38% 3P shooter, he wasn't an issue on spacing otherwise we would have had a worse record than 17-10 with him as lead PG. Of course he could regress, but so could every young player in the league.

IMO Bulls are far from worrying about too many players who can score. In the most important game of the season we played Dalen Terry, Talen Horton Tucker, and Patrick Williams 43 minutes who combined for 11 points. A typical Kuminga game would have had him being the 2nd best player on the Bulls in that game, since Coby shot 5-20 and 3-12 from 3. Kuminga in 5 playoff games with GS in the 2nd round averaged 21 ppg on 54%/42% shooting. Seems like at worst he's at least the 3rd best player, and certainly worth taking away touches from the ugly Pwill/THT/Terry trio.

Whether you can win a championship with him or not doesn't seem like a problem Chicago needs to worry about since we're light years away. He's likely to be a better asset than most of the roster. Kuminga on a mid contract is probably going to be more valuable than whatever we give up for him, which is probably a PWill or Vuc and assuming a heavily protected pick (top 12?). These mid picks have what, a 10% chance of turning out well? Sabonis is a player I also question if you can win a championship with him, but as an asset he was good enough to get Indiana Haliburton a player they never could have gotten otherwise. I just see him as improving Chicago's asset situation, which is bottom tier in the league atm.

[burlydee]

I agree that at one point they were interested in Kuminga. Then another year of information came, and they weren't, but Kerr's quote is pretty relevant to us as well. How is a lineup of Kuminga + Giddey going to work? Two guys who both need the ball to be effective and provide no spacing for each other?

Kuminga could take every one of Vuc's shots as a frontcourt player and I'd be fine with that, and DNPing Vucevic. There was enough shots for Vuc to average 19 ppg. We have to be sending out enough contract to match his new contract BYC, which seems like it would be Patrick or Vuc. Giddey was a 38% 3P shooter, he wasn't an issue on spacing otherwise we would have had a worse record than 17-10 with him as lead PG. Of course he could regress, but so could every young player in the league.

IMO Bulls are far from worrying about too many players who can score. In the most important game of the season we played Dalen Terry, Talen Horton Tucker, and Patrick Williams 43 minutes who combined for 11 points. A typical Kuminga game would have had him being the 2nd best player on the Bulls in that game, since Coby shot 5-20 and 3-12 from 3. Kuminga in 5 playoff games with GS in the 2nd round averaged 21 ppg on 54%/42% shooting. Seems like at worst he's at least the 3rd best player, and certainly worth taking away touches from the ugly Pwill/THT/Terry trio.

Whether you can win a championship with him or not doesn't seem like a problem Chicago needs to worry about since we're light years away. He's likely to be a better asset than most of the roster. Kuminga on a mid contract is probably going to be more valuable than whatever we give up for him, which is probably a PWill or Vuc and assuming a heavily protected pick (top 12?). These mid picks have what, a 10% chance of turning out well? Sabonis is a player I also question if you can win a championship with him, but as an asset he was good enough to get Indiana Haliburton a player they never could have gotten otherwise. I just see him as improving Chicago's asset situation, which is bottom tier in the league atm.

Thank you!!!

[statsman]

I don't see a trade for Kuminga from the Bulls that works for the Warriors. Trading Vuc to the Warriors as part of a Kuminga S&T would almost certainly hard cap the Warriors at the first apron, and that's not going to happen.

[nomorezorro]

the problem with kuminga isn't that he'd take up too many shots, and the bulls obviously could use another shot creator. the problem with making giddey and kuminga highly paid parts of the same roster is that they both need the ball in their hands to be effective and aren't effective floor-spacers, which makes it likely that they'd be a really bad fit together.

it'd be one thing if we were signing kuminga with the notion that he's probably going to end up a sixth man bench gunner whose minutes won't overlap too much with giddey's. but it's really hard to imagine a smoothly functioning half court offense where those two guys are big cogs

[dougthonus]

Kuminga could take every one of Vuc's shots as a frontcourt player and I'd be fine with that, and DNPing Vucevic. There was enough shots for Vuc to average 19 ppg.

I'm not saying there aren't enough shots. I'm saying they do not fit next to each other. You could literally always find guys to take shots away from each other, but Giddey and Kuminga both make life harder on the other, not easier.

We have to be sending out enough contract to match his new contract BYC, which seems like it would be Patrick or Vuc. Giddey was a 38% 3P shooter, he wasn't an issue on spacing otherwise we would have had a worse record than 17-10 with him as lead PG. Of course he could regress, but so could every young player in the league.

For BYc, we'd need to start at 23.2 we could send as little as 15.7 and GS could take back as much as 19.1. Pat, Huerter, and Collins would all fit that 1:1, but Vuc wouldn't. I think they could just toss us a vet min guy to get Vuc if they wanted. They could also do something like Smith + Ayo or Smith + Carter given they may desire to fill out the roster this year with viable guys to help them win.

IMO Bulls are far from worrying about too many players who can score. In the most important game of the season we played Dalen Terry, Talen Horton Tucker, and Patrick Williams 43 minutes who combined for 11 points. A typical Kuminga game would have had him being the 2nd best player on the Bulls in that game, since Coby shot 5-20 and 3-12 from 3. Kuminga in 5 playoff games with GS in the 2nd round averaged 21 ppg on 54%/42% shooting. Seems like at worst he's at least the 3rd best player, and certainly worth taking away touches from the ugly Pwill/THT/Terry trio.

Whether you can win a championship with him or not doesn't seem like a problem Chicago needs to worry about since we're light years away. He's likely to be a better asset than most of the roster. Kuminga on a mid contract is probably going to be more valuable than whatever we give up for him, which is probably a PWill or Vuc and assuming a heavily protected pick (top 12?). These mid picks have what, a 10% chance of turning out well? Sabonis is a player I also question if you can win a championship with him, but as an asset he was good enough to get Indiana Haliburton a player they never could have gotten otherwise. I just see him as improving Chicago's asset situation, which is bottom tier in the league atm.

That depends a lot on what you think of Kuminga. I think he's a super low IQ blackhole scorer that makes the game worse for everyone else. I think getting him puts you further away from competing not closer. We just saw a team built around 3 talented guys, but two of the three were super unicorns that were really hard to build anything around (Vuc + DeRozan). Giddey + Kuminga is the young version of the same plan.

I think they'll be a bit better in that at least there is young, so you hope their traits change, but I just wouldn't start out with two guys that have overlapping critical weaknesses and don't mesh as my base. Granted, you don't have to see it that way in terms of how big a problem that is or may just feel better about both players than me.

[sco]

Kuminga could take every one of Vuc's shots as a frontcourt player and I'd be fine with that, and DNPing Vucevic. There was enough shots for Vuc to average 19 ppg.

I'm not saying there aren't enough shots. I'm saying they do not fit next to each other. You could literally always find guys to take shots away from each other, but Giddey and Kuminga both make life harder on the other, not easier.

We have to be sending out enough contract to match his new contract BYC, which seems like it would be Patrick or Vuc. Giddey was a 38% 3P shooter, he wasn't an issue on spacing otherwise we would have had a worse record than 17-10 with him as lead PG. Of course he could regress, but so could every young player in the league.

For BYc, we'd need to start at 23.2 we could send as little as 15.7 and GS could take back as much as 19.1. Pat, Huerter, and Collins would all fit that 1:1, but Vuc wouldn't. I think they could just toss us a vet min guy to get Vuc if they wanted. They could also do something like Smith + Ayo or Smith + Carter given they may desire to fill out the roster this year with viable guys to help them win.

IMO Bulls are far from worrying about too many players who can score. In the most important game of the season we played Dalen Terry, Talen Horton Tucker, and Patrick Williams 43 minutes who combined for 11 points. A typical Kuminga game would have had him being the 2nd best player on the Bulls in that game, since Coby shot 5-20 and 3-12 from 3. Kuminga in 5 playoff games with GS in the 2nd round averaged 21 ppg on 54%/42% shooting. Seems like at worst he's at least the 3rd best player, and certainly worth taking away touches from the ugly Pwill/THT/Terry trio.

Whether you can win a championship with him or not doesn't seem like a problem Chicago needs to worry about since we're light years away. He's likely to be a better asset than most of the roster. Kuminga on a mid contract is probably going to be more valuable than whatever we give up for him, which is probably a PWill or Vuc and assuming a heavily protected pick (top 12?). These mid picks have what, a 10% chance of turning out well? Sabonis is a player I also question if you can win a championship with him, but as an asset he was good enough to get Indiana Haliburton a player they never could have gotten otherwise. I just see him as improving Chicago's asset situation, which is bottom tier in the league atm.

That depends a lot on what you think of Kuminga. I think he's a super low IQ blackhole scorer that makes the game worse for everyone else. I think getting him puts you further away from competing not closer. We just saw a team built around 3 talented guys, but two of the three were super unicorns that were really hard to build anything around (Vuc + DeRozan). Giddey + Kuminga is the young version of the same plan.

I think they'll be a bit better in that at least there is young, so you hope their traits change, but I just wouldn't start out with two guys that have overlapping critical weaknesses and don't mesh as my base. Granted, you don't have to see it that way in terms of how big a problem that is or may just feel better about both players than me.

Thanks for the trade math!

I admit I go back and forth on Kuminga. I agree that on the surface he's a bad fit with both Giddey and Coby. The flipside that makes me waffle is that there is a non-trivial chance he is an allstar level player just needing a bigger role to shine, coupled with the fact that, while we hope they become stars, none of our new core are stars, so there's just the benefit of upping our chances that we ultimately end up with one (or more)...team dynamics would matter more if we were on the cusp of contention.

[waffle]

I dislike Kuminga...never liked his game

It is pretty clear GS wants him GONE at this point

Is a sign and trade the most workable solution? What would Kuminga take to get out of a situation that is bad for him professionally?

Are the Bulls better with him than without him? Yeah, probably.

So I guess the question is what can we send back for a signed and traded Kuminga? I have to think GS is most interested in not taking back bad contracts, they want bodies .... what realistically works from our side?

I have a feeling that there is a non zero chance this ends up happening. Maybe the Bulls are in a holding pattern a bit? Waiting for a deal they like?

But more likely AK is just doing Sudoku's or something.

[Chi town]

I believe all the Kuminga noise is simply his agent trying to create a market. Last week there was a report saying as much.

[boozapalooza]

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?s=46

Would you do an Ayo S&T for Kuminga? May have to add Dalen for salary purposes. Kuminga would then be able to sign a 25-26MM/year contract with us.

Personally I thought these rumors would die after the Noa pick. Not sure how this would look in 2-3 years with Matas, Noa, and Kuminga on the team.

[DuckIII]

I can only think of two good reasons to trade for Kuminga and can’t imagine either happening:

1. GS takes Pat, so that at least for $18 million of his deal we are just replacing Pat with him.

2. You can flip him before February for more than you gave up to get him.

[DuckIII]

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?s=46

Would you do an Ayo S&T for Kuminga? May have to add Dalen for salary purposes. Kuminga would then be able to sign a 25-26MM/year contract with us.

Personally I thought these rumors would die after the Noa pick. Not sure how this would look in 2-3 years with Matas, Noa, and Kuminga on the team.

If the Bulls were to get Kuminga, the only way all three are on the Bulls in 3 years is if one of them is a big disappointment.

[Muzbar]

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?s=46

Would you do an Ayo S&T for Kuminga? May have to add Dalen for salary purposes. Kuminga would then be able to sign a 25-26MM/year contract with us.

Personally I thought these rumors would die after the Noa pick. Not sure how this would look in 2-3 years with Matas, Noa, and Kuminga on the team.

If the Bulls were to get Kuminga, the only way all three are on the Bulls in 3 years is if one of them is a big disappointment.

Half the board seems to be fixed on Essengue being a C in the future...

I'm surprised there's still a bunch of 'Kuminga to the Bulls' smoke. I do wonder if it's entirely from Kuminga's side?

[Rose2Boozer]

I don't see Kuminga to the Bulls. A sign and trade to the Suns for Grayson Allen would be a solid deal for both teams.

[Am2626]

Kuminga could take every one of Vuc's shots as a frontcourt player and I'd be fine with that, and DNPing Vucevic. There was enough shots for Vuc to average 19 ppg.

I'm not saying there aren't enough shots. I'm saying they do not fit next to each other. You could literally always find guys to take shots away from each other, but Giddey and Kuminga both make life harder on the other, not easier.

We have to be sending out enough contract to match his new contract BYC, which seems like it would be Patrick or Vuc. Giddey was a 38% 3P shooter, he wasn't an issue on spacing otherwise we would have had a worse record than 17-10 with him as lead PG. Of course he could regress, but so could every young player in the league.

For BYc, we'd need to start at 23.2 we could send as little as 15.7 and GS could take back as much as 19.1. Pat, Huerter, and Collins would all fit that 1:1, but Vuc wouldn't. I think they could just toss us a vet min guy to get Vuc if they wanted. They could also do something like Smith + Ayo or Smith + Carter given they may desire to fill out the roster this year with viable guys to help them win.

IMO Bulls are far from worrying about too many players who can score. In the most important game of the season we played Dalen Terry, Talen Horton Tucker, and Patrick Williams 43 minutes who combined for 11 points. A typical Kuminga game would have had him being the 2nd best player on the Bulls in that game, since Coby shot 5-20 and 3-12 from 3. Kuminga in 5 playoff games with GS in the 2nd round averaged 21 ppg on 54%/42% shooting. Seems like at worst he's at least the 3rd best player, and certainly worth taking away touches from the ugly Pwill/THT/Terry trio.

Whether you can win a championship with him or not doesn't seem like a problem Chicago needs to worry about since we're light years away. He's likely to be a better asset than most of the roster. Kuminga on a mid contract is probably going to be more valuable than whatever we give up for him, which is probably a PWill or Vuc and assuming a heavily protected pick (top 12?). These mid picks have what, a 10% chance of turning out well? Sabonis is a player I also question if you can win a championship with him, but as an asset he was good enough to get Indiana Haliburton a player they never could have gotten otherwise. I just see him as improving Chicago's asset situation, which is bottom tier in the league atm.

That depends a lot on what you think of Kuminga. I think he's a super low IQ blackhole scorer that makes the game worse for everyone else. I think getting him puts you further away from competing not closer. We just saw a team built around 3 talented guys, but two of the three were super unicorns that were really hard to build anything around (Vuc + DeRozan). Giddey + Kuminga is the young version of the same plan.

I think they'll be a bit better in that at least there is young, so you hope their traits change, but I just wouldn't start out with two guys that have overlapping critical weaknesses and don't mesh as my base. Granted, you don't have to see it that way in terms of how big a problem that is or may just feel better about both players than me.

Thanks for the trade math!

I admit I go back and forth on Kuminga. I agree that on the surface he's a bad fit with both Giddey and Coby. The flipside that makes me waffle is that there is a non-trivial chance he is an allstar level player just needing a bigger role to shine, coupled with the fact that, while we hope they become stars, none of our new core are stars, so there's just the benefit of upping our chances that we ultimately end up with one (or more)...team dynamics would matter more if we were on the cusp of contention.

I don’t think the Bulls are at a point where they should be worried about roster fit. They should be focused on bringing in young, talented, and high upside guys. I think Kuminga at least on surface fits that criteria. This team is very far away from being any type of contender and people are worried about whether a certain guy fits with Giddey or Coby White. None of that matters right now. The Bulls do not have any can’t miss core building blocks right now.

[kodo]

I don’t think the Bulls are at a point where they should be worried about roster fit. They should be focused on bringing in young, talented, and high upside guys. I think Kuminga at least on surface fits that criteria. This team is very far away from being any type of contender and people are worried about whether a certain guy fits with Giddey or Coby White. None of that matters right now. The Bulls do not have any can’t miss core building blocks right now.

Agreed, the odds that all three of Matas, Kuminga, and Noa being core players that demand starter minutes and top 3 player touches is insanely low. Like 1 in 10 picks in that range yield all-stars, and guys S&T by their drafting team don't often become stars. The odds are still more likely that none of this trio are all-stars in 4 years. If just two are, AK is a genius. And I don't think he is.

If by some miracle all 3 are that good, then you trade the 3rd for whoever is that year's Caruso or Hartenstein and get a super roleplayer.

[Red Larrivee]

I don’t think the Bulls are at a point where they should be worried about roster fit. They should be focused on bringing in young, talented, and high upside guys. I think Kuminga at least on surface fits that criteria. This team is very far away from being any type of contender and people are worried about whether a certain guy fits with Giddey or Coby White. None of that matters right now. The Bulls do not have any can’t miss core building blocks right now.

The issue with this is that there does need to be some resemblance of roster fit in order for talent to meet their upside. And it's not like you're talking about drafting some players and figuring it out. You're paying them market value to figure it out. It's a completely different premise with bigger risk involved.

It's not a 1:1, but to me, this all feels like a riskier version of the Bulls signing Jabari Parker.

[Dez]

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?s=46

Would you do an Ayo S&T for Kuminga? May have to add Dalen for salary purposes. Kuminga would then be able to sign a 25-26MM/year contract with us.

Personally I thought these rumors would die after the Noa pick. Not sure how this would look in 2-3 years with Matas, Noa, and Kuminga on the team.

If the Bulls were to get Kuminga, the only way all three are on the Bulls in 3 years is if one of them is a big disappointment.

Half the board seems to be fixed on Essengue being a C in the future...

I'm surprised there's still a bunch of 'Kuminga to the Bulls' smoke. I do wonder if it's entirely from Kuminga's side?

Which is just such a horrendous idea.