Toronto Blue Jays vs. San Francisco Giants, July 18-20

[steveholt]

At least BO is clutch. Yes he's not performing at the level we all want but he's not a complete DUD out there like Vlad. I dread watching him bat.

[bluerap23]

What kinda contract would Vlad have gotten? We could've had him for 350 probably lmao

A desperate team would have given Vlad a 10 year deal, around 250 to 275 million guaranteed. With incentives, maybe around 300 million over 10 years. Jays could have signed him for 200 million less. Otherwise, Jays could have saved that money and made a run at Kyle Tucker next year, and traded Vlad last off-season which I had hoped for and mentioned several times. Last off-season, you could have gotten a major haul based on the 2024 season Vlad, had with elite prospects and major league talent that would have set this organization up greatly in the years ahead.

Now, you are stuck for 14 years with the worst contract in all of pro sports, given to a Singles Hitter whose power has disappeared. Who looks like the 2023 version of himself. Cal Raleigh this past March, signed a 6 year extension with Seattle worth 105 million (17.5 million a year average). Vlad is making double of what Cal Raleigh is making right now, with 8 more years on top of that guaranteed over the MLB Home Run Leader Cal Raleigh. What a tremendous contract for Seattle, and an Albatross for the Jays.

While I agree the contract is terrible they probably had some intel on offers he might get in the off-season - and no, they would not have been that low.

I am the biggest Shatkins critic out there. I've thought about starting a fire shatkins petition. But I am also rational. They definitely fumbled the situation though. They could have locked him up for WAY less if they did it last year. And if they weren't going to do that they should have traded him at last year's deadline.

[Randle McMurphy]

What kinda contract would Vlad have gotten? We could've had him for 350 probably lmao

A desperate team would have given Vlad a 10 year deal, around 250 to 275 million guaranteed. With incentives, maybe around 300 million over 10 years. Jays could have signed him for 200 million less. Otherwise, Jays could have saved that money and made a run at Kyle Tucker next year, and traded Vlad last off-season which I had hoped for and mentioned several times. Last off-season, you could have gotten a major haul based on the 2024 season Vlad, had with elite prospects and major league talent that would have set this organization up greatly in the years ahead.

Now, you are stuck for 14 years with the worst contract in all of pro sports, given to a Singles Hitter whose power has disappeared. Who looks like the 2023 version of himself. Cal Raleigh this past March, signed a 6 year extension with Seattle worth 105 million (17.5 million a year average). Vlad is making double of what Cal Raleigh is making right now, with 8 more years on top of that guaranteed over the MLB Home Run Leader Cal Raleigh. What a tremendous contract for Seattle, and an Albatross for the Jays.

While I agree the contract is terrible they probably had some intel on offers he might get in the off-season - and no, they would not have been that low.

I am the biggest Shatkins critic out there. I've thought about starting a fire shatkins petition. But I am also rational. They definitely fumbled the situation though. They could have locked him up for WAY less if they did it last year. And if they weren't going to do that they should have traded him at last year's deadline.

There’s not a chance the front office had anything to do with giving Vlad that contract, especially given how it played out. It was all Ed, had to be.

[johanliebert]

At least BO is clutch. Yes he's not performing at the level we all want but he's not a complete DUD out there like Vlad. I dread watching him bat.

Bo’s playing up to his career norms what do people want mal

[johanliebert]

The team is 57-41 now and 7-3 over their last 10. I said this two months ago when they were out of it and ill say it again, much of you dwell on negativity.

Why is vladdy all people talk about with how this teams playing.

[Boogie!]

The team is 57-41 now and 7-3 over their last 10. I said this two months ago when they were out of it and ill say it again, much of you dwell on negativity.

Why is vladdy all people talk about with how this teams playing.

Because his performance has not been expected of someone with his contract or calibre and he’s not been a contributor to winning. Like someone else already said we’re winning because of the role players and who knows how sustainable this is especially come playoff time. You should be able to rely on his offense the way New York relies on judge or Soto or Alonso… the guy only has 12 home runs at this point what the ****.

[Madvillainy2004]

The team is 57-41 now and 7-3 over their last 10. I said this two months ago when they were out of it and ill say it again, much of you dwell on negativity.

Why is vladdy all people talk about with how this teams playing.

Because I expect some regression from our bottom of the order guys. We've had some amazing contributions from them and the team itself has been extremely good but if we are gonna maintain first place the next 2+ months we need our half a billion dollar bat to have a hot streak.

He actually had a great June. But July he's been a disaster 260 SLUG 0 Homeruns and 2 doubles this month is a joke.

[Mehar]

What kinda contract would Vlad have gotten? We could've had him for 350 probably lmao

A desperate team would have given Vlad a 10 year deal, around 250 to 275 million guaranteed. With incentives, maybe around 300 million over 10 years. Jays could have signed him for 200 million less. Otherwise, Jays could have saved that money and made a run at Kyle Tucker next year, and traded Vlad last off-season which I had hoped for and mentioned several times. Last off-season, you could have gotten a major haul based on the 2024 season Vlad, had with elite prospects and major league talent that would have set this organization up greatly in the years ahead.

Now, you are stuck for 14 years with the worst contract in all of pro sports, given to a Singles Hitter whose power has disappeared. Who looks like the 2023 version of himself. Cal Raleigh this past March, signed a 6 year extension with Seattle worth 105 million (17.5 million a year average). Vlad is making double of what Cal Raleigh is making right now, with 8 more years on top of that guaranteed over the MLB Home Run Leader Cal Raleigh. What a tremendous contract for Seattle, and an Albatross for the Jays.

While I agree the contract is terrible they probably had some intel on offers he might get in the off-season - and no, they would not have been that low.

I am the biggest Shatkins critic out there. I've thought about starting a fire shatkins petition. But I am also rational. They definitely fumbled the situation though. They could have locked him up for WAY less if they did it last year. And if they weren't going to do that they should have traded him at last year's deadline.

The way Vlad has looked up to this point, and if he continues to look like his 2023 version of himself- an offer of 10 years at 250-275 million as a base, with incentives pushing the deal to around 300 million is what I would have expected in the off-season from teams. Let me clarify, I said this is what I expected teams to offer him with the way Vlad has performed up to the point "this year", as basically a Singles hitter with his drastic reduction in his power numbers.

I am not talking about 2021 or 2024 Vlad. Forget last year's trade deadline, this past off-season the several teams that had lost out on Soto, would have offered the Jays a truckload of nice talent for Vlad based on his 2024 season. That was the time to trade him. Now you are stuck with this guy. How nice of Seattle to sign Cal Raleigh for 6 years and 105 million, about a month before Vlad signed his ridiculous deal.

[xAIRNESSx]

Vladdy’s back!

[Madvillainy2004]

Let's go Vlad

[Boogie!]

lol finally he hits a home run… but really if you look at the side profile of that swing you can see why he’s not consistently elevating the ball. Compare it to Aaron judges slow mo swing. Vlads swing is so flat… swinging down on the ball

[-MetA4-]

lol finally he hits a home run… but really if you look at the side profile of that swing you can see why he’s not consistently elevating the ball. Compare it to Aaron judges slow mo swing. Vlads swing is so flat… swinging down on the ball

Swing expert Boogie coming through once again with the groundbreaking insight that every batter should just swing like Aaron Judge. Easy, right?

[Madvillainy2004]

Lmao we can just move Andres SS next year right?

[Boogie!]

lol finally he hits a home run… but really if you look at the side profile of that swing you can see why he’s not consistently elevating the ball. Compare it to Aaron judges slow mo swing. Vlads swing is so flat… swinging down on the ball

Swing expert Boogie coming through once again with the groundbreaking insight that every batter should just swing like Aaron Judge. Easy, right?

Everyone’s talking about how Guerrero is struggling. You’re mad at me because I’m trying to break down why and how he should fix it? wtf is your problem…

Aaron judge is obviously yes the prime rxample of a consistent home run swing but the point is he needs to stop swinging down on the ball and there is a reason why he’s only hitting 13 home runs to this point despite having elite bad speed and power.

Tell me in your opinion what vlad needs to do? Because I’m assuming you think everything is okay with his performance and swing too…

[-MetA4-]

I am the biggest Shatkins critic out there. I've thought about starting a fire shatkins petition. But I am also rational. They definitely fumbled the situation though. They could have locked him up for WAY less if they did it last year. And if they weren't going to do that they should have traded him at last year's deadline.

1) Both Vlad and Bo come from money. There is zero indication that either player had any interest in locking down a long term deal at points in their career that are convenient to your argument (ie: Vlad after a down season). On the contrary, it is very clear that both were very happy to test the open open market. You have no knowledge of what they did or didn't try to do, so don't play stupid and act like you know what he would or wouldn't agree to when its clear that they had been negotiating with him for 2+ years. Why the hell would Guerrero sign a long-term extension last year coming off a 116 wRC+ season wherein he was playing considerably worse than he is today, when he had two years left on his deal to bet on himself? Again, this isn't some poor kid from the DR - his father was a HOF player and he has an uncle that also played in the MLB.

The answer is that he wouldn't, otherwise the deal would have been done 1-2 years ago.

2) I've already explained this, but his $500M extension has a considerable amount of GOODWILL tied to it that has nothing to do with his performance. This has always been known, because on a pure WAR/$ basis there was obviously no way that he would provide that amount of value. He would basically need to perform like Albert Pujols for an 8-9 year stretch, and no, I can assure you that Shapiro and company didn't think that they were signing prime Pujols when they finalized that $500M contract.

You all fail to realize the immense tone-changing nature of what his $500M deal actually represents, and why it was important for them to OVERPAY to stabilize the direction of the team. Guerrero/BIchette/Springer was supposed to be the World Series core coming off that 2021 season. The team ultimately stagnated and didn't progress as expected from 2022-2023, leading up to last year where like you said: most everyone was ready to fire the front office and start a complete rebuild. The Guerrero investment solidified the winning expectation of the 2025 season, whereas what is the VIBE of the franchise if you walk into 2025 with neither Guerrero nor Bichette signed, or worse yet: Guerrero traded? If you trade Guerrero then you are rebuilding and expecting a completely new front office, in which case who knows WTF the long-term future of the Blue Jays is. Instead, they chose to make a statement signing which showed a commitment to the current core. This is all a prerequisite to the 1st place team that you see today. As stupid as it sounds, it also solidifies the Blue Jays as a serious team that isn't just going to fold over. Lots of people talk about the lockout season as the reason why the Expos are no longer in Montreal, but the failure to retain home-grown stars like Larry Walker is an unheralded event that they never recovered from.

Enjoy the damn team while they are winning. Its a 14 year contract; he will have seasons where he will look like an MVP hitter again - I promise. He is obviously a hot/cold hitter. No, he's not going to be an 80 wRC+ hitter over the next 14 years (which is what everyone is now complaining about, considering that he was a 140-150 wRC+ hitter in May and June).

[Boogie!]

Did Schneider change his stance? He’s tap dancing out there

[Boogie!]

Ray has been wild this inning and we only have a runner on with 2 outs.

[-MetA4-]

Everyone’s talking about how Guerrero is struggling. You’re mad at me because I’m trying to break down why and how he should fix it? wtf is your problem…

Aaron judge is obviously yes the prime rxample of a consistent home run swing but the point is he needs to stop swinging down on the ball and there is a reason why he’s only hitting 13 home runs to this point despite having elite bad speed and power.

Tell me in your opinion what vlad needs to do? Because I’m assuming you think everything is okay with his performance and swing too…

You pointing out one player who is a complete freak of nature and saying "DURR LOOK HOW HE SWINGS" is worth nothing. Aaron Judge is also 6'7, which means that his swing is not something that someone 6-7 inches shorter can just replicate. Why doesn't Alejandro Kirk start swinging like Judge? He'd obviously be much more deadly if he turned singles into more home runs.

I can assure you that every person working with the Jays is aware that Guerrero's swing is not working now. This isn't the first time this has happened either. The fix is not always as easy as you seem to think it is. You've made the same post literally a hundred times as if you've uncovered some treasure chest of knowledge. If fixing swings was easy, players would never struggle. I'm sure that they are working very hard on trying to get him to change things in his swings to elevate the ball more.

[Madvillainy2004]

lol finally he hits a home run… but really if you look at the side profile of that swing you can see why he’s not consistently elevating the ball. Compare it to Aaron judges slow mo swing. Vlads swing is so flat… swinging down on the ball

Swing expert Boogie coming through once again with the groundbreaking insight that every batter should just swing like Aaron Judge. Easy, right?

Everyone’s talking about how Guerrero is struggling. You’re mad at me because I’m trying to break down why and how he should fix it? wtf is your problem…

Aaron judge is obviously yes the prime rxample of a consistent home run swing but the point is he needs to stop swinging down on the ball and there is a reason why he’s only hitting 13 home runs to this point despite having elite bad speed and power.

Tell me in your opinion what vlad needs to do? Because I’m assuming you think everything is okay with his performance and swing too…

The biggest problem with Vlad is his motion is too slow and this year he's been a lot less aggressive as well. He still has elite hands and bat to ball skills so he can still make contact but he catches the ball late which leads to him spiking balls into the ground cause his bat path is too flat (i think he has the lowest attack angle other than Steven Kwan and other slap hitters).

Idk why we can't fix it lmao but Vlad will need to find his timing and maybe sell out for more to do damage even if it means less walks/singles for a trade off with more power. I still have faith in him being a top 10 hitter for a long part of his contract but he'll have to make some adjustments.

[JN]

At least BO is clutch. Yes he's not performing at the level we all want but he's not a complete DUD out there like Vlad. I dread watching him bat.

Bo’s playing up to his career norms what do people want mal

His OPS+ is 108. That is not his career norm. That is well down from where he was early in the first five years of his career (144,127,121, 128, 122). He has been doing good with RISP, which adds value to his current year,

But he is nowhere near a $25M player at this point. He is an average hitting SS by MLB terms... he is 13th amongst starting shortstops with a WRC+ of 110.

Let's enjoy him while he is here, but I'm not emptying the bank for him.