Stewie and Phee negotiating on behalf of the WNBAPA is an obvious Conflict of Interest

[DOT]

Feel like this is more of a "rising tide lifts all ships" situation.

[sikma42]

Feel like this is more of a "rising tide lifts all ships" situation.

What happens if the WNBA wants to limit player ownership in other basketball basketball leagues. If you’re solely looking at the best interest of WNBA players this raise issues imo.

Likely other scenarios too, as Phee and Colliers status (they pick who gets invited to Unrivaled) could have undue influence on player voting.

Not saying they would do anything unethical. But usually people step aside in these situations based on what I’ve seen.


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[DOT]

Feel like this is more of a "rising tide lifts all ships" situation.

What happens if the WNBA wants to limit player ownership in other basketball basketball leagues. If you’re solely looking at the best interest of WNBA players this raise issues imo.

Likely other scenarios too, as Phee and Colliers status (they pick who gets invited to Unrivaled) could have undue influence on player voting.

Not saying they would do anything unethical. But usually people step aside in these situations based on what I’ve seen.


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That's if you view Unrivaled as competition to the WNBA

Right now, it's not. Nobody is not watching the WNBA to watch Unrivaled. If anything, it helps bring new fans into the sport

If it were an NBA vs ABA sort of deal, where it is direct competition, that's a different story.

[sikma42]

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[hermes]

is this our general cba negotiations thread?

from andrew dukowitz (lynx and timberwolves reporter)

I know this will be a firestorm topic

WNBA players currently receive just 9.3% of the leagues revenue(this includes ticket sales, merch, TV deals) for reference their male counterparts in the NBA is 50.0%.

This resulted in their salary cap being set at just 1.507 million for this year(less than half of Joe Ingles 3.634M)

In theory if they received even 40% of the leagues revenue that salary cap would be at 6.481 M.

That increase would mean roster expansion could occur, players could theoretically still make 3x their current salary and owners would still bring in 60% of the revenue.

Now to put that into perspective, that still means an entire WNBA roster would be paid less than Rob Dillingham will make in 2025-26(6.576M)

——————————

Now yes, the WNBA did lose 40 million dollars in 2024, but this is in large part due to the TV deal they are currently signed to, which in 2026 goes from roughly 45 Million annually to 200 Million annually.

This will result in essence result in the league making money over night from losing 40 to a net gain of 115M just on the TV deal alone. Even if the game and tickets sales were to stop growing, and merch stopped selling, it would still be in the green.

The current CBA would amount to players going from 1.507M in salary cap to just 4.0 M… a substantial raise however it would cost the league just 2.5 M out of that 115M TV deal profits.

If the players got 40%, that’s just 17.204M as a salary cap… a 11x raise over their current salaries, and still in the grand scheme of things less than 1 Jaden McDaniels(24.393M)

———————

The league is built on players whether you’re a CC, Aja, or Phee fan they deserve to get a bigger slice of the pie for the work they all have put in, and as the revenue grows, they should as well.

The WNBA players are not asking to be paid dollar for dollar what the NBA players make, from what I understand they just want a fair share of the revenue.

Now let’s enjoy some hoops.

the tweet the above is from

Read on Twitter

[MrBigShot]

The W has had a pretty dramatic increase in popularity. They should (and will) get paid more. But comparing the revenue split to the NBA's is apples to oranges.

I don't take any issue with the supposed "conflict of interest", if anything it gives them leverage to negotiate.

[MrDollarBills]

The players being paid 9% of revenue is absolute robbery.

I mean for Christ's sake even Dave Portnoy is calling the league out. I feel disgusting being on the same side as him.

But all jokes aside. Last night a statement was made. The moment CC walked out there with that t shirt along with the other players the league was absolutely cooked.

Pay them or they strike. They don't need the WNBA. The league needs them. Desperately.

[MrDollarBills]

The W has had a pretty dramatic increase in popularity. They should (and will) get paid more. But comparing the revenue split to the NBA's is apples to oranges.

I don't take any issue with the supposed "conflict of interest", if anything it gives them leverage to negotiate.

Phee and Stewie played the league for fools.

They run a successful league that paid the players more money for a few weeks of work compared to the peanuts being paid by the league. Now everyone sees that the players are being screwed.

AU, Unrivaled, overseas leagues all pay way more money. The league has no leverage here. If any owner doesn't commit to paying fair wages while the league continues to grow, they should sell.

[Green Chile]

Who knows how it goes but the players have the leverage here in ways I'm not sure we've ever seen in a sports league. At least not in a very long time.

1. Players don't make much, so they don't really have that much to lose in a work stoppage, relative to other leagues.

2. They are already used to having other revenue streams because they had to.

3. They made another revenue stream of their own.

4. They are used to budgeting their money. Just look at what Allisha and Tash did with their All-Star weekend winnings (still invested and a house down payment respectively). Women are generally better with money than men.

5. Probably most importantly, this is a tight-knit group that's been disrespected for years. They will stick together.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see the players with big endorsement deals give money to the lower paid players and rookies to get them through a work stoppage.

Who knows where it goes, but that's a lot of unique leverage.

[Billy Goat]

Who knows how it goes but the players have the leverage here in ways I'm not sure we've ever seen in a sports league. At least not in a very long time.

1. Players don't make much, so they don't really have that much to lose in a work stoppage, relative to other leagues.

2. They are already used to having other revenue streams because they had to.

3. They made another revenue stream of their own.

4. They are used to budgeting their money. Just look at what Allisha and Tash did with their All-Star weekend winnings (still invested and a house down payment respectively). Women are generally better with money than men.

5. Probably most importantly, this is a tight-knit group that's been disrespected for years. They will stick together.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see the players with big endorsement deals give money to the lower paid players and rookies to get them through a work stoppage.

Who knows where it goes, but that's a lot of unique leverage.

Who is disrespecting them- fans or ownership? This leverage play by the players has felt more directed at the general public and not the owners. The owners are the ones who write the checks- not the fans. And partying with the commish over the weekend was a strange way to voice displeasure. The messaging has been off- I have yet to hear one player call out an owner by name.

[MrDollarBills]

Who knows how it goes but the players have the leverage here in ways I'm not sure we've ever seen in a sports league. At least not in a very long time.

1. Players don't make much, so they don't really have that much to lose in a work stoppage, relative to other leagues.

2. They are already used to having other revenue streams because they had to.

3. They made another revenue stream of their own.

4. They are used to budgeting their money. Just look at what Allisha and Tash did with their All-Star weekend winnings (still invested and a house down payment respectively). Women are generally better with money than men.

5. Probably most importantly, this is a tight-knit group that's been disrespected for years. They will stick together.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see the players with big endorsement deals give money to the lower paid players and rookies to get them through a work stoppage.

Who knows where it goes, but that's a lot of unique leverage.

Who is disrespecting them- fans or ownership? This leverage play by the players has felt more directed at the general public and not the owners. The owners are the ones who write the checks- not the fans. And partying with the commish over the weekend was a strange way to voice displeasure. The messaging has been off- I have yet to hear one player call out an owner by name.

They don't have to single anyone out because the message is clear that the league is underpaying the players.

How are you conflating the players asking for fair pay with an attack on fans?

What does this have to do with fans? This is between the WNBAPA, WNBA, and NBA.

[Billy Goat]

Who knows how it goes but the players have the leverage here in ways I'm not sure we've ever seen in a sports league. At least not in a very long time.

1. Players don't make much, so they don't really have that much to lose in a work stoppage, relative to other leagues.

2. They are already used to having other revenue streams because they had to.

3. They made another revenue stream of their own.

4. They are used to budgeting their money. Just look at what Allisha and Tash did with their All-Star weekend winnings (still invested and a house down payment respectively). Women are generally better with money than men.

5. Probably most importantly, this is a tight-knit group that's been disrespected for years. They will stick together.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see the players with big endorsement deals give money to the lower paid players and rookies to get them through a work stoppage.

Who knows where it goes, but that's a lot of unique leverage.

Who is disrespecting them- fans or ownership? This leverage play by the players has felt more directed at the general public and not the owners. The owners are the ones who write the checks- not the fans. And partying with the commish over the weekend was a strange way to voice displeasure. The messaging has been off- I have yet to hear one player call out an owner by name.

They don't have to single anyone out because the message is clear that the league is underpaying the players.

How are you conflating the players asking for fair pay with an attack on fans?

What does this have to do with fans? This is between the WNBAPA, WNBA, and NBA.

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

[hermes]

i don't know if the owners were in the negotiating meetings but i'm sure someone representing them was there. sounds like the players made it known during the meetings they want to be paid what they are worth

the play to the fans is to get the fans on their side. what difference will that make? who knows but its nicer having them with you than not with you

partying with the commissioner: if your boss likes you, they are much less likely to screw you in a negotiation

[MrDollarBills]

Who is disrespecting them- fans or ownership? This leverage play by the players has felt more directed at the general public and not the owners. The owners are the ones who write the checks- not the fans. And partying with the commish over the weekend was a strange way to voice displeasure. The messaging has been off- I have yet to hear one player call out an owner by name.

They don't have to single anyone out because the message is clear that the league is underpaying the players.

How are you conflating the players asking for fair pay with an attack on fans?

What does this have to do with fans? This is between the WNBAPA, WNBA, and NBA.

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

OK, so you're being obtuse.

[Billy Goat]

They don't have to single anyone out because the message is clear that the league is underpaying the players.

How are you conflating the players asking for fair pay with an attack on fans?

What does this have to do with fans? This is between the WNBAPA, WNBA, and NBA.

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

OK, so you're being obtuse.

Lashing out at the public is not how you win friends or influence people. I have yet to see one player call out an owner for underpaying them.

[DOT]

They don't have to single anyone out because the message is clear that the league is underpaying the players.

How are you conflating the players asking for fair pay with an attack on fans?

What does this have to do with fans? This is between the WNBAPA, WNBA, and NBA.

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

OK, so you're being obtuse.

[MrDollarBills]

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

OK, so you're being obtuse.

Lashing out at the public is not how you win friends or influence people. I have yet to see one player call out an owner for underpaying them.

Yes, because making inflammatory public statements during a labor dispute negotiation is a common sense move.

Just say you don't think these women deserve to be paid fair wages and move on. No one is lashing out at the public.

[MrDollarBills]

Who is “the league?” What does that even mean? Be specific- who’s specifically underpaying the players? The message has been anything but clear. Their displeasure has been vague and they seem too scared to call out the owners directly. Until that happens it’s all a sideshow.

They were partying with the commissioner of the league. Very strange way of voicing your displeasure with “the league”.

OK, so you're being obtuse.

Crazy how dudes are pro labor until it comes time for women to get their fair share.

[DOT]

Crazy how dudes are pro labor until it comes time for women to get their fair share.

Not just women, anyone but them

Been decades worth of propagandizing the American worker (read; white American workers) to believe that they're not the problem, it's all those lazy moochers who are sucking up all the union benefits who don't deserve them, and that's who we're gonna get rid of benefits for, not you

Go back to the "welfare queens" with Reagan, or even further, the hardhat riot of the 70s, where conservatives began astroturfing unions into thinking they were on their side, funded by the rich who used the racism of the post-Civil Rights bill US to divide workers to stop them from organizing a united front

Sherman wasn't allowed to go far enough, and the effects of that can still be felt to this day.

[Doctor MJ]

So just putting thoughts down with what's coming out:

* The way the W owners are negotiating trying to push back against salaries anywhere near what are appropriate by current market value seems almost destined to cause a work stoppage to me - and I think this would be the case even without the new off-season American leagues that could be seen as competition.

* Theoretically it's possible that without the salaries of Unrivaled the WNBA players would have lesser expectations, but the scale of the negotiating disconnect that's coming out seems just much, much bigger than that.

* Now, while I'm generally on the player's side here, I do want to stand up for what I'll call a "cautious ownership perspective" that wants to protect against the possibility of a bubble of mainstream interest going "pop", and leaving the W with a bunch of commitments based on the bubble itself.

* That said, because the NBA uses a scheme that's at ground based on a percentage of the revenue rather than an absolute number, it sure seems hard to justify not committing to some similar percentage for the women. There might be some wiggle room on specific costs that the WNBA has been implicitly benefitting off of the NBA foundation, but fundamentally, women should only be getting paid less than men based on the fact they aren't generating the same revenue as the men, not because they deserve a much smaller piece of the pie for the revenue they do generate.

* The fact that on top of that the success of Unrivaled higher-than-WNBA salaries is something that does make the situation seem more absurd. While it's possible that deep down in the books the Unrivaled was a scam that won't ever function again, if it isn't, then the WNBA is just playing with fire.

* By this same token, it seems to me that Napheesa Collier is either the player that the rest of the players should choose to lead them going forward, or she (or her husband) is covering things up that are going to cause the players problems. So long as Unrivaled is financially legit and sustainable, Collier and her team have essentially already responded to the WNBA spending decades failing to figure out how to make the W "profitable" so as to begin the salary climb we see in majorly successful pro leagues, but just doing it on their own.

* Something that's very much on my mind: In general, I consider the work that current Commish Engelbert has done since 2019 to be a major leap forward from what came before, but when she announced 3 more expansion teams coming when we still have two more expansion teams already announced that haven't (Toronto, Portland) have yet to create rosters, to me this is a HUGE problem when we look at it not just from the "watering down of quality" lens toll it will take, but what it means to this upcoming contract negotiation:

WTF was the WNBA leadership doing committing to all of these new WNBA franchises based on increased women's basketball popularity before doing the next union negotiation if they were going to negotiate hard against the union?

How can you possibly convince the WNBA's that money's tight when you make big announcements like that on top of Unrivaled salary's, and the fact that the spike in WNBA popularity came on the back of a college star bringing the attention with her?

I feel like the WNBA has now painted itself into a corner wherein it it might not just lead to a lost WNBA season, but the doubling down of these other American leagues turning them into something that might actually lead to the best American players choosing to play for one of those leagues not just along with the W, but instead of the W.

That's a worst case scenario of course. We'll see where the negotiations actually go, and people might be more reasonable when push comes to shove than they appear to be so far, but yeah, it is now within the realm of possibility that after 20+ years of toiling away not getting the traction they want, the WNBA now gets pushed to the side as women's basketball gains mainstream interest.

And of course, the worst, worst case scenario for us would be one where this creates a splintering of American pro women's basketball that prevents success in any league from gaining attention from the mainstream press (other than by existing players that get are already getting them headlines based on the stature they had prior to the splinter).

Sigh. Here's hoping the wisest minds in the room prevail.