Shaq: (Kobe) had room to operate cuz I got 3 people on me. I coulda got 3 in a row w/ T-Mac. 2 w/ Vince. 6 w/ steph

[Revived]

And Kobe only needed a decent big and went to 3 straight finals..

Boy, Shaq just won’t shut up.

He should just appreciate what the game has done for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fella, Shaq at his peak was the most dominant player of all time. The game hasn't done anything for him. He did it by himself.

Exactly. They introduced a whole rule called “3 in the key” just because of his dominance.

[Black Jack]

I'm not a Kobe stan but the epidemic of retiree anti Kobee comments from TMac, Shaq, and others is insane.

Guy won his era as a guard, give it a rest. TMac types need to be quiet.

[Revived]

And Kobe only needed a decent big and went to 3 straight finals..

Correction: Kobe only need TWO All Star bigs including one first ballot Hall of Fame big in his prime (Pau) to go to three straight finals.

such Pau disrespect

We all love Pau but we all knew that people called him Pau Gasoft for a reason & that Pau was punked by the Celtics in 2008.

And Pau (along with Artest) was the sole reason the Lakers won the title in 2012 when Kobe infamously had shot 8/29 or something like that in the final game 7. I can’t even imagine the ridicule Kobe would face if he had that game in today’s social media world. Kobe needed Artest to catch his airball and put it in at the buzzer just to not even lose to Phoenix in the WCFs the series prior.

[Rainwater]

I'm not a Kobe stan but the epidemic of retiree anti Kobee comments from TMac, Shaq, and others is insane.

Guy won his era as a guard, give it a rest. TMac types need to be quiet.

The thing is that there is no Kobe hate. T-Mac and Kobe were friends. T-Mac hung out with Kobe's family. Shaq and Kobe reconciled before his death. Shaq consistently argues that Kobe should be considered the best player of all time. Shaq's son even texted Kobe days before his death. These guys don't hate Kobe. The idea of "hate" is created by fans. Since Kobe died any mention of the man's name is considered hate by fans. There just seems to be an inability to retell stories if it doesn't show Kobe as the absolute winner. If it doesn't somebody is a hater.

And things mentioned by Shaq and T-Mac can be debated as true. For a 3-year period there was a debate who was better T-Mac and Kobe, this is not hate but factual. When Shaq was in his prime, the dude was so good you can a make a debate that you can put any high-level wing next to him and that team would win titles. This **** was being said 20 years ago, this is nothing new. But since the death of Kobe everything is considered hate when in reality it is not. It's a bit annoying.

[Black Jack]

I'm not a Kobe stan but the epidemic of retiree anti Kobee comments from TMac, Shaq, and others is insane.

Guy won his era as a guard, give it a rest. TMac types need to be quiet.

The thing is that there is no Kobe hate. T-Mac and Kobe were friends. T-Mac hung out with Kobe's family. Shaq and Kobe reconciled before his death. Shaq consistently argues that Kobe should be considered the best player of all time. Shaq's son texted Kobe before his death. These guys don't hate Kobe. The idea of "hate" is created by fans. Since Kobe died any mention of the man's name is considered hate by fans. There just seems to be an inability to retell stories if it doesn't show Kobe as the absolute winner. If it doesn't somebody is a hater.

And things mentioned by Shaq and T-Mac can be debated as true. For a 3-year period there was a debate who was better T-Mac and Kobe, this is not hate but factual. When Shaq was in his prime, the dude was so good you can a make a debate that you can put any high-level wing next to him and that team would win titles. This **** was being said 20 years ago, this is nothing new. But since the death of Kobe everything is considered hate when in reality it is not. It's a bit annoying.

Fine those guys were friendly but they are still acting salty on these podcasts. TMac never even made a conference finals run. He needs to just luxuriate in being wealthy and not pretend his legacy approaches Kobes.

I just think they are trying to rewrite history. Kobe won rings, TMac and them did not.

I highly doubt we'd hear all these comments if Kobe was still alive. To be honest.

[FrodoBaggins]

2001-2004:

Kobe with Shaq (7,957 minutes): 65.2% at the rim; 34.5% from three; 56.5% TS
Kobe without Shaq (3,757 minutes): 59.5% at the rim; 31.1% from three; 52.5% TS

Shaq with Kobe (7,957 minutes): 73.9% at the rim; 58.4% TS
Shaq without Kobe (2,391 minutes): 75.8% at the rim; 59.2% TS

Thing is, he probably doesn't bother to look up these numbers yet he knows it's true.

They probably discussed it in huddles at the time, give Shaq a touch and then kick it out and the other team will be in scramble mode, making it easier for Kobe to attack the closeouts.

Those stats probably include two seasons when Kobe was coming off the bench at eighteen and nineteen and playing with the 2nd team. Just like RAPM, those numbers don't mean anything unless put into context. Look up total production in playoffs between Shaq and Kobe. Kobe led the Lakers in 4th quarter scoring in all their finals seasons except one. Kobe led the entire league in 4th scoring season in two of those championship seasons. If you count assists, Kobe was the more impactful player over Shaq. Kobe accounted for 34% of all-scoring in the playoffs to Shaq's 32%. Kobe was clearly the better playoff player in multiple pivotal series, outscoring not only Shaq but the other teams best player. If Shaq was so pivotal to Kobe's success, Kobe would not have been able to go to back-to-back-to-back a second time without him. The entire argument makes no sense.

It quite clearly says 2001-2004. The stats are from the 2000-01, 2001-02, 2002-03, and 2003-04 NBA seasons, including the playoffs. I don't know why you're being so disingenuous.

[Rainwater]

I'm not a Kobe stan but the epidemic of retiree anti Kobee comments from TMac, Shaq, and others is insane.

Guy won his era as a guard, give it a rest. TMac types need to be quiet.

The thing is that there is no Kobe hate. T-Mac and Kobe were friends. T-Mac hung out with Kobe's family. Shaq and Kobe reconciled before his death. Shaq consistently argues that Kobe should be considered the best player of all time. Shaq's son texted Kobe before his death. These guys don't hate Kobe. The idea of "hate" is created by fans. Since Kobe died any mention of the man's name is considered hate by fans. There just seems to be an inability to retell stories if it doesn't show Kobe as the absolute winner. If it doesn't somebody is a hater.

And things mentioned by Shaq and T-Mac can be debated as true. For a 3-year period there was a debate who was better T-Mac and Kobe, this is not hate but factual. When Shaq was in his prime, the dude was so good you can a make a debate that you can put any high-level wing next to him and that team would win titles. This **** was being said 20 years ago, this is nothing new. But since the death of Kobe everything is considered hate when in reality it is not. It's a bit annoying.

Fine those guys were friendly but they are still acting salty on these podcasts. TMac never even made a conference finals run. He needs to just luxuriate in being wealthy and not pretend his legacy approaches Kobes.

I just think they are trying to rewrite history. Kobe won rings, TMac and them did not.

I highly doubt we'd hear all these comments if Kobe was still alive. To be honest.

Again, they aren't salty, the fans are salty, lol.

The same arguments we are having today were had 20 years ago when Kobe was alive, lol. For a three-year period, Kobe vs T-Mac was a debate. Back in Shaq's prime many thought you could put a T-Mac or Vince next to Shaq and still win a title. The death of Kobe has made any conversation about the man impossible. Friends of Kobe literally talk about their past and they consider it hate.

Kobe and T-Mac literally sat down to talk about their rivalry before death. This idea they hated each other, or they didn't talk about it when Kobe was alive is just crazy too me. Some bull**** made up by fans.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Black Jack]

The thing is that there is no Kobe hate. T-Mac and Kobe were friends. T-Mac hung out with Kobe's family. Shaq and Kobe reconciled before his death. Shaq consistently argues that Kobe should be considered the best player of all time. Shaq's son texted Kobe before his death. These guys don't hate Kobe. The idea of "hate" is created by fans. Since Kobe died any mention of the man's name is considered hate by fans. There just seems to be an inability to retell stories if it doesn't show Kobe as the absolute winner. If it doesn't somebody is a hater.

And things mentioned by Shaq and T-Mac can be debated as true. For a 3-year period there was a debate who was better T-Mac and Kobe, this is not hate but factual. When Shaq was in his prime, the dude was so good you can a make a debate that you can put any high-level wing next to him and that team would win titles. This **** was being said 20 years ago, this is nothing new. But since the death of Kobe everything is considered hate when in reality it is not. It's a bit annoying.

Fine those guys were friendly but they are still acting salty on these podcasts. TMac never even made a conference finals run. He needs to just luxuriate in being wealthy and not pretend his legacy approaches Kobes.

I just think they are trying to rewrite history. Kobe won rings, TMac and them did not.

I highly doubt we'd hear all these comments if Kobe was still alive. To be honest.

Again, they aren't salty, the fans are salty, lol.

The same arguments we are having today were had 20 years ago when Kobe was alive, lol. For a three-year period, Kobe vs T-Mac was a debate. Back in Shaq's prime many thought you could put a T-Mac or Vince next to Shaq and still win a title. The death of Kobe has made any conversation about the man impossible. Friends of Kobe literally talk about their past and they consider it hate.

Tmac never made even a basic playoff run. He has no business in a Kobe convo.

I watched them both, entire careers. Not a hige fan of either. Kobe was another tier sorry.

[Rainwater]

Fine those guys were friendly but they are still acting salty on these podcasts. TMac never even made a conference finals run. He needs to just luxuriate in being wealthy and not pretend his legacy approaches Kobes.

I just think they are trying to rewrite history. Kobe won rings, TMac and them did not.

I highly doubt we'd hear all these comments if Kobe was still alive. To be honest.

Again, they aren't salty, the fans are salty, lol.

The same arguments we are having today were had 20 years ago when Kobe was alive, lol. For a three-year period, Kobe vs T-Mac was a debate. Back in Shaq's prime many thought you could put a T-Mac or Vince next to Shaq and still win a title. The death of Kobe has made any conversation about the man impossible. Friends of Kobe literally talk about their past and they consider it hate.

Tmac never made even a basic playoff run. He has no business in a Kobe convo.

I watched them both, entire careers. Not a hige fan of either. Kobe was another tier sorry.

Just because you have your opinion doesn't mean the argument was never had, lol. I also thought that Kobe was better, but I am not going to sit here and say that there was no debate and if someone say there was a debate he must be a hater. That is the **** I don't like.

[pepe1991]

My immediate thoughts about this:

-poor Shaq, only got to play with Penny, Kobe, and Wade in their primes
-probably could have had more success if he wasn't a fat, lazy, petulant man-child for most of his career
-Kobe and Wade had their best seasons post-Shaq

I find Shaq intolerable, honestly. He knows he left so much on the table because of his own flaws, and so he has to aggrandize what he actually accomplished, because he's SO insecure.

Shaq won 4 titles and was best player in 3 of them ( 3 finals MVP ), he was also best player in a game for several years.
Shaq was also biggest gravity player of his era, post Jordan, prior prime Lebron.

Did Shaq costed himself some titles and left something on a table? Yes. But not much.

[Yank3525]

A couple things. This is less about Shaq tearing down Kobe and more giving T-Mac and Vince their flowers because they were not fortunate enough to play with a skilled Big like himself or close to it.

This is how I see it too.

Yao isn’t Shaq, but he was still pretty good and T-Mac’s team still blew two 2-0 leads in 2005 and 2007.

[Heat3]

In 2006 the Mavs were most scared of Shaq. Focused so much on him that they got themselves in foul trouble and allowed Wade to feast.

[pepe1991]

One aspect that impacted the East was three of the biggest up and coming players post Jordan-Pippen Bulls had issues.

Vince Carter was riding solo after T-Mac left.

T-Mac was riding solo after Hills injuries.

Hill never recovered post injury, like a Derrick Rose type situation.

If T-Mac and Carter stay together they would've been so explosive on the wings as a 1-2 punch.

If Hill doesn't get injured then him and T-Mac probably come out of the East during the Laker-Kobe years. Grant was a top 6 player pre-injury, and T-Mac became one by the time he came of age in Orlando.

The East would've been Nets vs whatever team T-Mac was on till the Pistons regrouped.

T-Mac and Vince played on barren rosters by todays standards, but that was largely due to them seperating. Lakers vs Raptors would've had some crazy ratings.

Hill was actually the premiere wing of the NBA post Jordan. His injuries really pushed Kobe to a bigger forefront.

Tracy also had Yao.
And never passed first round of playoffs with anybody. Matter of fact, only time when Houston passed first round of playoffs with Tracy, was when Tracy was on roster, but didn't play (injury), but team was carried by Artest and Yao.

Tracy was all about how he looks and what numbers will be attached to his name after a game and not so much about winning.

For example, Kobe has 61% win rate.
Shaq has 68% win rate.

..Carter and T Mac are career 51% win rate players.
Just for comparison sake: Iverson (51% ), Melo (54%), KG (56,4%), Duncan (72%), Dirk (60%), Ray Allen (58%), Lebron (65%), Jordan (66%), Steph (64%)


In those 2000s there was lot of style over substance, Tracy, Carter, Iverson are epitome of that era. Entertaining, marketable, even with SOME success, but it was always them over team.

Tracy playoff record ( without Spurs ) - 14-29 (35% win rate)
Iverson playoff record 30-41 (42% win rate )
Carter playoff record 38-50 (43%)

Just bit context, 23 years old Anthony Edwards playoff record- 21-21 (50% win rate). Edwards already won more playoff games than T mac. Will probably need one more season to surpass win total of Iverson.
Shai has 27-19 playoff record.
Haliburton 23-15
Those guys aren't even peaking yet

Fact that sophomore Wade and declining Shaq were good enough to win 59 games and push to ECF in 2005, and win a whole thing in 2006, or that Spurs in 2003 won title with sophomore Parker being second best player ( upon winning 60 games in regular season) gives you very good insight of quality.

In reality, people just romanticize about 2000s basketball and remember it with pink glasses on. Stars of that era were more about own brand and style than basketball or winning. You can argue biggest "brand" post Jordan was Iverson. Iverson had 1 great playoff run in his entire career. But all the kids wore Answer shoes, practice was running joke, kids on a street wore shooting sleeves, pants hanging so low that you could fall over them, headbands, doing crossovers, Reebok was shoe to buy, he was trying to be a rapper as well, and looked like he is part of some rap boy band.

Iverson was so much of a ( bad? ) influence that NBA had to give strict dress code in 2005 to prevent players to look like gang members.

[xinxin]

I always thought Glen Rice got underrated on that 1st Championship team. People forget Rice had made 3x straight All-Star teams on 23ppg and 44% 3p when the Lakers acquired him. Rice was a deadly 3rd option at that time in the NBA.

The two that came after people underrate the number of good veteran defenders the teams had.

I havent checked the numbers but I agree that Rice was the forgotten Laker in that 2000 team. I did see him make a number of clutch baskets throughout the season. from what I recall, Rice seemed like the odd man out in the triangle offense & didnt see eye to eye with PJ that well.
I actually wanted him to stay with the team but alas.. it didnt happen.

[Handlez]

It's sad yet comical at this point that people need HYPOTHETICAL situations based on FANTASY to try and diminish Kobe.

Unfortunately for them, the reality is Kobe proved everyone wrong and it was so sweet to witness. They said he'd never win without Shaq, but he proceeded to very nearly match the amount of winning he did with Shaq, without him.

Now go ahead and hype up 0-12 in the playoffs Pau before Kobe, head cases Odom and Artest (Ariza before Artest) and never forget the all time great Bynum!

Kobe proved them all wrong and the excuses will never stop, so all we can do at this point is laugh at the bitterness.

[Jedi32]

I love shaq but he will always be salty that kobe finished with more rings than him. All these hypotheticals. I don't remember Kobe ever having to do this to make himself feel good. Carter and Tmac were great players but neither reached kobes's greatness with or without shaq. Also anyone who thinks shaq would have been ok with steph shooting long threes is crazy. As soon as he had an off shooting night shaq would have been complaining in the papers.

[xinxin]

A couple things. This is less about Shaq tearing down Kobe and more giving T-Mac and Vince their flowers because they were not fortunate enough to play with a skilled Big like himself or close to it.

This is how I see it too.

this was also my first impulse. since Shaq has been very profuse with praise about Kobe since they patched things up before Kobe's death..

but somehow, Shaq's ego just cant help it. the statement " " Kobe had room to operate cuz I got 3 people on me.." was clearly meant to downplay Kobe's importance in their 3-peat & 4 finals appearances.. even if true, you just dont say those things.

[Handlez]

And Kobe only needed a decent big and went to 3 straight finals..

Boy, Shaq just won’t shut up.

He should just appreciate what the game has done for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn’t that sort of Shaq’s point? Kobe needs a “decent big” to operate?

(fkn lol at Kobe fans continuing to talk down Pau Gasol 15 years later btw)

Pau was 0-12 in the playoffs before Kobe.

Do you realize how significant that is?

He could not even perform at a high enough level for ONE game in three years of playoffs. That is actually unheard of and I'd like to be able to see if it has ever happened before.

I personally have never heard of such a scenario. A top tier player should be good enough to steal at least ONE game in three years of playoffs. Pau couldn't even take over a single game in three years of playoffs.

[Jedi32]

Kobe had more success outside of Shaq than Shaq did outside of Kobe. Shaq played with more talent throughout his career than Kobe did. Argument seems off base. Also Shaq never got to repeat finals outside of Kobe while Kobe went to 3 straight finals without Shaq. Tmac had Artest, Yao and battier and didn’t make it out the first round. Shaq and Kobe got taken to 7 games against Sacramento and Portland. Kobe had back to back 40 balls to closeout the spurs one year. It’s disingenuous to say “replace Kobe with any guard and Shaq wins a chip” Shaq and penny didnt. Shaq Eddie jones and Van exel wasn’t enough.

More success is quite subjective...

Shaq didn't miss the playoffs for 15 years after his rookie season. Heck, he even reached at least the second round of the playoffs aged 22 to 33.

Kobe couldn't get out of the 1st round of the playoffs for three straight years (and actually missed the playoffs at all in one of those years). In his prime!

Yes, I know. He gets a pass for Smush blah blah blah. But how about "He was not good enough to drag a team that was less than good to great to success"? And how much of the success thereafter is due to Phil Jackson and the arguably best front office who managed to surround him with talent like Gasol, Odom and Artest?

"Shaq, Eddie Jones and Van Exel wasn't enough." Van Exel was only a one-time All-Star and may I remember everyone that he was erratic like hell? He could be the best player on the court in one game and shoot you out of competition in the next one. He could not do anything with the Nuggets, and the Mavs used him in the best way possible: As a sixth man, hoping for a good night of him when nothing else seemed to work.
Furthermore: How about the take that Eddie Jones was not good enough? He was a great defender who shied away from taking on offensive responsibility too much. More of a third option when the Lakers needed a second option. And that is now Shaq's fault that the Lakers pre-2000 were missing some pieces?

Again this repeat BS. Who cares if a player wins two or three straight championships (or reach the finals) or two or three titles with some years apart? This seems just to be a very convenient argument because it's fitting for Kobe (and bringing him near to Jordan whose Bulls won two three-peats). In the end it doesn't mean anything.

It's quite absurd how much of the circumstances around Kobe Bryant are seen through rose-tinted spectacles. He could not win anything without the fitting pieces around him, either. But he's given a pass by many that other players don't get in the same way.

Regarding T-Mac as an example fot that: There is a lot of context missing when just saying that he could not get out of the first round. His Magic teams were flawed when Hill was injured. And when he was with the Rockets his back was already shot, and Yao's injuries added up. With the same ignorance of circumstances one could say that Kobe couldn't even qualify for the playoffs with Odom and Caron Butler at his side.

Just say you don't like kobe, cause your post reads like babble to be honest. The man literally went to two separate three peats with different casts and you're trying to downplay it. Smh

[WiggOuts]

Its crazy that Shaq himself confirms what tmac said and people still can't accept it