Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[tedbrogen]

All the evidence of Doc being an idiot yet people somehow convinced he’s not based on him panicking into ideal lineups when they were facing elimination, lol

thats fan oversimplification imo. the year we won the title people wanted bud fired for being hardheaded. if this board coached the team we'd be a circus.

doc has his ways but he, and the organiztion have been very clear about what this years goals are. the fact he didnt go hog wild benching kuzma and lopez 10 games after the deadline with portis sidelined.....and starting trent and green who had seriously plum sucked in their previous starts..... doesnt mean hes a moron. if he listened to this boards postgame threads and deployed all our bright ideas after every game he'd probably destroy the lockerroom in a month

Doc started Prince at SG for many games in the year 2025 and you are arguing he’s not an idiot.

I’m done with this pointless dispute since Doc will prove me right once the season starts and he plays Prince and Kuz way more than he should.

I’ll let you reply and get in the last word.

[Dick Tate]

I’m done with this pointless dispute

Thanks. It's much more enjoyable when these disputes are settled on a game to game basis in the PG threads.

[CharityStripe34]

I think everyone here knows the biggest question mark on the team is Doc and the coaches. And I'm sure there will be some kinks and growing pains throughout. You'd like to think the numbers people on staff will let him know "hey these lineups work well, use them."

Also would not be shocked if more moves are to be made mid season.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using RealGM mobile app

[old skool]

Lest we forget, 4 years ago today we had a great time in Milwaukee, with the crowd chanting "MVP!, MVP!" while Connaughton missed a pair of free throws.

[MickeyDavis]

Lest we forget, 4 years ago today we had a great time in Milwaukee, with the crowd chanting "MVP!, MVP!" while Connaughton missed a pair of free throws.

We didn't forget. Yesterday it was 4 years and it was discussed starting a few pages ago.

[emunney]

Lest we forget, 4 years ago today we had a great time in Milwaukee, with the crowd chanting "MVP!, MVP!" while Connaughton missed a pair of free throws.

We didn't forget. Yesterday it was 4 years and it was discussed starting a few pages ago.

*Shows up the day after your birthday with a cake* you didn't think I was gonna forget your birthday, did you??

[yb90]

Will/ would the Clips do the Bucks another favor by trading Dunn for Jackson Jr?

[-Jragon-]

Uncommon opinions:

Kuz, understanding he doesn't have to carry this team.. focuses on his spot up 3 this year and is a huge plus for us

Kuz is better than Portis because Portis plays Ole' defense and can't challenge underneath.

[DanoMac]

Will/ would the Clips do the Bucks another favor by trading Dunn for Jackson Jr?

Let's make it a bigger favor and Bogi/Dunn for Kuz

[Prez]

I’m far from a Bobby guy but Kuzma was in no way shape or form better than Bobby last year. I would argue there were quite possibly zero players getting more than 20+ mpg that Kuzma was better than last season lol.

His defense is also wildly overrated if you consider off ball/team defense.

[raferfenix]

Maybe it's rose colored glasses but the Bucks prioritizing young hungry guys makes me wonder just how seriously we went after Beal and the other fossils we've been linked to.

Brett Siegel is pretty adamant about it fwiw.

On the other end of the spectrum, I do believe Kuminga cost himself a ton not taking yes for an answer from Golden State last offseason, and I also question whether the "contender definitely will hang onto the unhappy dude until the deadline" is more posturing than what they'll ultimately do:

Over in Milwaukee, the Bucks made a legitimate, serious push for Beal and presented him with a persuasive pitch where he would be the No. 2 option next to Giannis Antetokounmpo, sources said. While Beal's camp gave serious thought to Milwaukee's offer, the 32-year-old viewed the Clippers as the perfect franchise to continue his career with past the upcoming season.

On the flip side, Golden State had already offered Kuminga a deal in the $30 million AAV range before the 2024-25 season and made it clear that offer is no longer on the table. Instead, the Warriors want a smaller deal around $20 million per year.

While there are members of the organization who want Kuminga back, given his overall potential, the assumption is that he would return with the understanding that he would be flipped before the trade deadline in February. The only problem is that it is known around the league that Kuminga doesn't want to be with the Warriors any longer and instead wants to continue his career elsewhere, sources said.

Kuminga wants a starting role on a team that believes in his star potential, and he understands that will not happen with Golden State. Limited options remain this late in the offseason, as the two sides have explored multiple avenues to a potential sign-and-trade.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/siegels-scoop-nba-intel-chris-paul-bradley-beal-marcus-smart-deals

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

All the evidence of Doc being an idiot yet people somehow convinced he’s not based on him panicking into ideal lineups when they were facing elimination, lol

thats fan oversimplification imo. the year we won the title people wanted bud fired for being hardheaded. if this board coached the team we'd be a circus.

doc has his ways but he, and the organiztion have been very clear about what this years goals are. the fact he didnt go hog wild benching kuzma and lopez 10 games after the deadline with portis sidelined.....and starting trent and green who had seriously plum sucked in their previous starts..... doesnt mean hes a moron. if he listened to this boards postgame threads and deployed all our bright ideas after every game he'd probably destroy the lockerroom in a month

Doc started Prince at SG for many games in the year 2025 and you are arguing he’s not an idiot.

I’m done with this pointless dispute since Doc will prove me right once the season starts and he plays Prince and Kuz way more than he should.

I’ll let you reply and get in the last word.

i dont view it as a dispute at all!!! just summertime speculation.

no last word here. more just general thoughts in general.....but consider prince had a positive net rating for all his minutes. his efficency was great as a starter. net rating negative tho. meanwhile he stunk horses ass in his minutes off the bench altho his net rating improved! he was hard to gauge whether he was doing well in that starters role altho i think over time we realized that in general we were a better team the smaller and faster we were. but only in general..... i really think were gauging this off some bad minutes we hated more than the concept of him starting and how effective it was in a general way or maybe even could have been. dame and lopez are gone. thats a massive turnover! there was alot of muddy water there and with dame and lopez gone we should consider giving every lineup with the new cast a bit of a run.

i think we need to avoid the tendency to blame the role guys when were sucking and give all the credit to the stars when were busting ass. we need to try to avoid that. prince's and trents metrics were solid last year but that doesnt mean that this year when it all shakes out it wont be trent sitting in the playoffs and prince getting run. we need to be patient and let the season shake out. may even depend on a first round matchup

[tedbrogen]

that doesnt mean that this year when it all shakes out it wont be trent sitting in the playoffs and prince getting run.

Never change dude, never change, lol

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Lest we forget, 4 years ago today we had a great time in Milwaukee, with the crowd chanting "MVP!, MVP!" while Connaughton missed a pair of free throws.

We didn't forget. Yesterday it was 4 years and it was discussed starting a few pages ago.

*Shows up the day after your birthday with a cake* you didn't think I was gonna forget your birthday, did you??

is July 20th MD's birthday? mine too fwiw

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

that doesnt mean that this year when it all shakes out it wont be trent sitting in the playoffs and prince getting run.

Never change dude, never change, lol

youre taking this discussion way to serious man. im just trying to be chill. i also want to see everybody out there in spots early. with no dame and lopez pretty much every lineup dynamic is gonna change

[Frank Nova]

Maybe it's rose colored glasses but the Bucks prioritizing young hungry guys makes me wonder just how seriously we went after Beal and the other fossils we've been linked to.

Brett Siegel is pretty adamant about it fwiw.

On the other end of the spectrum, I do believe Kuminga cost himself a ton not taking yes for an answer from Golden State last offseason, and I also question whether the "contender definitely will hang onto the unhappy dude until the deadline" is more posturing than what they'll ultimately do:

Over in Milwaukee, the Bucks made a legitimate, serious push for Beal and presented him with a persuasive pitch where he would be the No. 2 option next to Giannis Antetokounmpo, sources said. While Beal's camp gave serious thought to Milwaukee's offer, the 32-year-old viewed the Clippers as the perfect franchise to continue his career with past the upcoming season.

On the flip side, Golden State had already offered Kuminga a deal in the $30 million AAV range before the 2024-25 season and made it clear that offer is no longer on the table. Instead, the Warriors want a smaller deal around $20 million per year.

While there are members of the organization who want Kuminga back, given his overall potential, the assumption is that he would return with the understanding that he would be flipped before the trade deadline in February. The only problem is that it is known around the league that Kuminga doesn't want to be with the Warriors any longer and instead wants to continue his career elsewhere, sources said.

Kuminga wants a starting role on a team that believes in his star potential, and he understands that will not happen with Golden State. Limited options remain this late in the offseason, as the two sides have explored multiple avenues to a potential sign-and-trade.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/siegels-scoop-nba-intel-chris-paul-bradley-beal-marcus-smart-deals

We have the perfect smaller deal “around 20m per year” replacement for Golden State and the door is wide open for a budding star in Milwaukee. Stars can align as soon as Golden State stops being dumb and realizes Kyle Kuzma is a winner and someone they desperately need if they want to compete in the west.

[AussieBuck]

i also want to see everybody out there in spots early. with no dame and lopez pretty much every lineup dynamic is gonna change

This is what's bringing me back. Doc sucks, but we don't have ancient dudes who don't even register that a lose ball is on the floor before it's someone else's fast break. Happy to look at just about any combo, even if I think Prince sucks hard in 95% of them.

[Bucks4005]

It's going to be a lot harder to get the spacing & defense wrong this year. The potential weakness I keep coming back to is the rebounding. You're going to get hurt if you put Trent as a starter when all his 2-man combos were under water (49.5% was his best), then we add Turner who the same was the case for, & ensure 3 guard lineups, some of which don't even include KPJ.

Or if you move Trent to backup, and he plays w/ Prince, those lineups were disastrous rebounding-wise, worst on the team (45.5%). Giving up nearly 15 extras the minimum. possession per 48 on rebounding alone w/ that unit. The starters may be around 10 (reb % of 47). KPJ's really going to have to be a saving grace to keep the starters afloat on the boards.

I'd have Trent off the bench, and then move Prince to 3rd unit. I think he's a prime candidate for a deadline move as salary. Just wish we hadn't given him that 2nd year, otherwise it'd have been fine. It actually would have been a solid value signing if we didn't then ink Turner. It's kind of evocative of acquiring Beasley and then seeing the Dame opportunity come available later.

Yea, I’m kinda concerned Doc goes with Kuzma as the 3 for the “rebounding and size up front” and ignore all the flaws with Kuzma.

I don’t think the 2 year deals we signed are that much of a concern though? I might be wrong, but aren’t they all basically for the minimum? Even if they accept the player option, it’s for the minumum amount. They almost guaranteed to decline it as long as they don’t fall off a cliff and see what they can get on the market because no matter what, next year any team has interest just have to choose between potentially getting more on the open market or, at worst, the minimum again likely, which is no different then them accepting the 2nd year with us, right? Even as a trade piece, you’re trading a guy that minimum, right? So a roam likely wouldn’t view it as an impediment to their cap, would they?

[Prez]

Said this before but Horst made it pretty clear, as much as he can based on public GM speak I guess, that his vision revolves around getting the younger guards (KPJ, GTJ, Green, Rollins, Anthony) next to Giannis, and playing Prince/Kuzma more as a 3-4 and 4 respectively. If Doc still starts the Prince/Kuzma lineups or even just Kuzma at the 3 (with say GTJ or Green at the 2), it would signal to me a disconnect between front office and coach. I would hope given that Horst got an extension, he has more freedom to end the Doc show before he lights yet another season on fire.

[BigO]

Said this before but Horst made it pretty clear, as much as he can based on public GM speak I guess, that his vision revolves around getting the younger guards (KPJ, GTJ, Green, Rollins, Anthony) next to Giannis, and playing Prince/Kuzma more as a 3-4 and 4 respectively. If Doc still starts the Prince/Kuzma lineups or even just Kuzma at the 3 (with say GTJ or Green at the 2), it would signal to me a disconnect between front office and coach. I would hope given that Horst got an extension, he has more freedom to end the Doc show before he lights yet another season on fire.

Once again, the problem with Kuzma is not whether he plays the theoretical 3 or 4. It's how much time he plays?

My theory is that Doc was the driving force behind getting Kuzma (besides the cost savings). He obviously really likes him.

To me, Doc's ego is the only possible explanation for continuing to play Kuzma until it was too late. Will he continue to try and justify the trade, perhaps not to the extent he did, but to the detriment of the team?

If I'm right, the real issue is not just Kuzma, but Doc's talent evaluation. Was he the driving force behind getting Anthony (I think he was) and will that cloud his judgment on playing time?