CP3 Part Deux?

[esqtvd]

BTW, CP3 would be a great pickup for 2 years/$7 million. (Put a $1 million buyout on that second year). That’s minimum salary, and would only count $2 million against the cap. Paul is still pesky, can still shoot some, passes well without making mistakes, and—surprisingly—is available pretty often. He’s played between 1500 and 2300 minutes every season since turning 35. Getting 1500-1600 minutes out of Chris Paul, even a somewhat diminished Chris Paul, is so worth a minimum deal.

FTR, I predicted TEN YEARS ago that CP3 was worth re-signing, that Steve Nash played well through age 35 and Chris had the same kind of game that would age well. [By contrast, Blake was a WRECK by age 32.] CP3 has played 58 or more games ever since, even at age 39.

Here's an odd thought I haven't seen explored yet--Beard. Chris left LAC for two reasons, IMO--to get away from a recently re-signed Blake Griffin and to play with Harden. And they were a helluva tandem for HOU--good pals, always talking DEEP basketball well beyond most of their teammates. They won 65 GAMES together one year.

Then it gets foggy. Did Chris ask out? Did Beard push him out? Regardless, Chris was OUT, and HOU paid A LOT to dump Chris's huge contract.

Houston Rockets Received:

Russell Westbrook, a former NBA MVP and All-Star guard, who was in the second year of a five-year, $206-million contract, with a salary of $38.5 million for the 2019-2020 season.

Oklahoma City Thunder Received:

Chris Paul, who was in the first year of a four-year, $150-million contract, having played 58 games in the 2018-2019 season due to injuries.
Two first-round draft picks (2024 and 2026).
Two first-round pick swaps (2021 and 2025).

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-relationship-between-rockets-stars-james-harden-chris-paul-termed-unsalvageable-200951028.html

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-star-james-harden-wanted-chris-paul-out-of-houston-prior-to-trade-with-thunder-per-report/

Per ESPN's Tim MacMahon, one of Paul's "biggest beefs" with Harden was his lack of interest in participating in the Rockets offense when he didn't have the ball, including "sometimes barely stepping over half court while spectating when Paul had the ball."

Paul was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder in July 2019, with Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN reporting on X ) that he and Harden no longer communicate, stating, "We don't talk, communicate, nothing like that," but wished Harden the best. Harden has not publicly detailed his side extensively, but his actions suggest he was ready to move on, as the Rockets continued with Westbrook.

Rockets’ James Harden told Mike D’Antoni ‘we’ve got to get Chris (Paul) out of here’ during final playoff loss

James Harden reportedly asked Rockets head coach Mike D'Antoni to "get Chris Paul out of here."

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/houston-rockets/rockets-rumors-james-harden-told-mike-dantoni-weve-got-to-get-chris-paul-out-of-here-during-final-playoff-loss


So, do they kiss and make up? Neither has a ring or a 60-win season since they parted ways.

The delicate relationship between Houston Rockets stars James Harden and Chris Paul has been termed “unsalvageable” and the star players want a divorce, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Paul went to Rockets management and demanded a trade, and Harden issued a “him or me” edict following the Rockets’ second-round loss to the Golden State Warriors, sources said.

The backcourt mates went nearly two months without speaking to each other during the season, sources said, creating a tenuous environment for teammates and everyone involved with the franchise.

[Ballings7]

I think he's better off and more likely going to the Lakers.

If he's brought in, I wouldn't want him starting or finishing many games.. but I feel like that's probably what would happen, and think the defense would take a hit overall, more often than not (aware of CP3's defensive career pedigree). The backcourt would be even more on the small and/or offensively biased side if you're playing CP3 with any other guards (PG, SG etc) currently on the team.. like, currently:

Paul/Dunn/Harden ... no thanks. Paul/Powell/Harden .. no thanks.

Then, that puts Kawhi back at primarily the 4 big spot, which is not ideal over a game and over a season.. spurts, not a big deal. Barring a decent shake up of the wing/rotation guards right now.

Fine and think it helps the team if he's primarily a backup, spot starter/finisher.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I think he's better off and more likely going to the Lakers.

If he's brought in, I wouldn't want him starting or finishing many games.. but I feel like that's probably what would happen, and think the defense would take a hit overall, more often than not (aware of CP3's defensive career pedigree). The backcourt would be even more on the small and/or offensively biased side if you're playing CP3 with any other guards (PG, SG etc) currently on the team.. like, currently:

Paul/Dunn/Harden ... no thanks. Paul/Powell/Harden .. no thanks.

Then, that puts Kawhi back at primarily the 4 big spot, which is not ideal over a game and over a season.. spurts, not a big deal. Barring a decent shake up of the wing/rotation guards right now.

Fine and think it helps the team if he's primarily a backup, spot starter/finisher.

you are probably right- he is more likely to sign with the Lakers unless he has buried the hatchet with Harden. Sounds like they ended on poor terms- don't see why he would want to reunite with him or perhaps Harden still has negative feelings too.

[TrueLAfan]

LeBron likes CP3. Always has. OTOH--seriously, how much is Chris Paul going to touch the ball on a team with Luka Doncic and LeBron James? Kawhi isn't a primary ballhandler like those two; Harden is, but is much more of a pass-first guy than he was with CP3 and the Rockets. I do think he's more likely to go to the Lakers, but it's not a slam dunk.

[esqtvd]

Where you gonna find 20 minutes for Chris?

2 guards x 48 minutes = 96 minutes

Harden 32 minutes
Beal 30 minutes
Dunn 18 minutes
Bogi 16 minutes
___________________________
96 minutes

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ADD: Pretty close to mine

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[TrueLAfan]

^^This. I’ll say it again—and it’s not hate on CP3—but does he want to come here and be a #4/#5 guard? Harden, Dunn, and (if necessary) Beal can handle playmaking. Bogi is the off the bench scorer. I just don’t get it.

About minutes—it’s better to figure it out by total minutes instead of MPG. I agree that Kawhi will play 32-34 mpg … but I think he’ll play around 50-60 games. When I project season totals, I see something like this:

Code: Select all

Harden     2500
Zubac      2500
Collins    1900
Beal       1800
DJJ        1800
Kawhi      1600
Dunn       1500
Bogie      1500
Lopez      1400
Batum      1150


That leaves about 1200 minutes for the bottom of rotation fill-ins. Where does CP3 get minutes? That’s cutting time/getting more rest for Harden, Zubac, Lopez and Batum and keeping Collins, DJJ, Kawhi, Bogie and Beal around what they’ve averaged for the past few years, injuries and all. And, tbh, if one of the top 10 guys went down, I’d want Cam Christie and Yanic and maybe one of the Kobes picking up the slack, not a 40 year old.

[esqtvd]

just sayin'

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[esqtvd]

^^This. I’ll say it again—and it’s not hate on CP3—but does he want to come here and be a #4/#5 guard? Harden, Dunn, and (if necessary) Beal can handle playmaking. Bogi is the off the bench scorer. I just don’t get it.

About minutes—it’s better to figure it out by total minutes insdterad of MPG. I agree that Kawhi will play 32-34 mpg … but I think he’ll play around 50-60 games. When I project season totals, I see something like this:

Code: Select all

Harden     2500
Zubac      2500
Collins    1900
Beal       1800
DJJ        1800
Kawhi      1600
Dunn       1500
Bogie      1500
Lopez      1400
Batum      1150


That leaves about 1200 minutes for the bottom of rotation fill-ins. Where does CP3 get minutes? That’s cutting time/getting more rest for Harden, Zubac, Lopez and Batum and keeping Collins, DJJ, Kawhi, Bogie and Beal around what they’ve averaged for the past few years, injuries and all. And, tbh, if one of the top 10 guys went down, I’d want Cam Christie and Yanic and maybe one of the Kobes picking up the slack, not a 40 year old.

Love your minutes chart, TLAF--except I expect Collins and Beal each to top 2200. As for the back of the bench, too many promises will have been made to the veterans playing for next to nothing, at least at the beginning of the season. BUT REMEMBER--promises were probably made to John Wall, but once he was irretrievably ass, the Clips ate his salary in midseason.

Nothing is cast in stone.

[Bobbymcgee]

I still want CP3 on the Clippers for possibly his last season as an NBA player.

He averaged 8.8 points and 7.4 assists and 3.6 rebounds on the Spurs last season.

The Clippers need a competent backup point guard because the offense often fell apart and the team looked lost whenever Harden went to the bench.

As far as minutes go, I would like to see Collins and Beal carry the offense in the regular season. Save Harden, Leonard, and Zubac for the post-season.

[Ballings7]

So, if CP3 joins... its probably something like this - not set in stone per say, just 12 guys at their main spots.

Harden/CP3/Dunn
Beal/Bogi
Kawhi/DJJ/Dunn
Collins/Batum
Zubac/Lopez/Yanic

Then the the rest of the young players sprinkled in (and nothing). I don't mind CP3 joining to primarily be a back up who spot finishes games, plays a bit more in the playoffs based on match up. Really shouldn't be a starter, though

Dunn will still be needed to play consistent rotation minutes due to his defensive versatility and impact, just have to spot him a bit more in the playoffs.. but who knows, he could come back with a better jumper. Not unfounded that guys can't improve their game later in their career.

Will be interesting to see.

[KL2]

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[og15]

I have nothing against it, he's washed, but it will be a backup role. I'm not sure where the minutes are coming from for him, but he can see the roster, so if he's coming on board he knows what to expect.

[Kelphus]

Having CP3 back would be good, if we're realistic about what he can contribute (and nobody is kidding themselves that he'll play 25 minutes a game). Also, I like the idea that maybe he retires a Clipper.

And, most importantly, I still have my Cliff Paul and CP3 bobbleheads from the Lob City days!

[donemilio21]

^^This. I’ll say it again—and it’s not hate on CP3—but does he want to come here and be a #4/#5 guard? Harden, Dunn, and (if necessary) Beal can handle playmaking. Bogi is the off the bench scorer. I just don’t get it.

About minutes—it’s better to figure it out by total minutes instead of MPG. I agree that Kawhi will play 32-34 mpg … but I think he’ll play around 50-60 games. When I project season totals, I see something like this:

Code: Select all

Harden     2500
Zubac      2500
Collins    1900
Beal       1800
DJJ        1800
Kawhi      1600
Dunn       1500
Bogie      1500
Lopez      1400
Batum      1150


That leaves about 1200 minutes for the bottom of rotation fill-ins. Where does CP3 get minutes? That’s cutting time/getting more rest for Harden, Zubac, Lopez and Batum and keeping Collins, DJJ, Kawhi, Bogie and Beal around what they’ve averaged for the past few years, injuries and all. And, tbh, if one of the top 10 guys went down, I’d want Cam Christie and Yanic and maybe one of the Kobes picking up the slack, not a 40 year old.

Dunn, Bogdanovich and Beal are guards, but none of them is a playmaker. Ty Lue would never any of the young guys non-garbage time minutes.

[KL2]

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[esqtvd]

Clippers still a destination. CP3's TO/Assist ratio was still over 4-to-1. You're never gonna get that out of G-leaguers.

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[Bobbymcgee]

Glad CP3 is back with the Clippers in a back-up point guard role.

I think the team has a chance for a deep playoff run but to do so they realistically need to earn a top 3 seed.

[playaloc916]

Nice pick up. Not sure about the minutes, but it's a good problem to have. L Frank did everything I was hoping for, pretty excited for the upcoming season.

[og15]

It should help, in the end, the team needed a bench PG that actually can run an offense and get guys organized and find some solid shots, and of course no younger guys who can do that were tagging along for 14-15 mpg.

You know one of the goals the team has is likely to get Harden down to 31-32 mpg, he's going to be 36, he already has playoff issues, playing too much in the regular season won't help that.

Hopefully at 14-15 mpg, slow and old CP can have more energy on both ends even though he still won't be able to consistently beat anyone off the dribble or stay in front of people well. For a 2 year plan team, this is about as good as you can get it. They have enough depth to weather injuries and to keep minutes down, and enough balance of offense, defense, rebounding and playmaking to be able to find complimentary lineups.

[TrueLAfan]

Well, I kind of saw this coming, especially after the Marcus Smart signing.

I like CP3 and hope he's happy in the one year (or two years—yes, I'll say it) he's here. And he can still provide a good amount of help, especially to the right team. I'm not 100% sure we're that team, but that's neither here nor there. The team wanted him and he's back, so I'm thinking about what this means.

And what I really think it means is a couple of things. One--we're going to keep playing small ball. Our SF rotation is weak; we've really only got Kawhi and DJJ, and Kawhi's health is always a concern. Bogi can get some time at SF and he's adequate there. Batum, in a pinch, can fill in--but he's old and slow to be a 3 now. I think this means Kobe Sanders gets a roster spot. Out of him, Flowers, and Miller, I think he's the most like a 3, and is the most ready to produce.

The other option--which is increasingly real--is that nobody will take Coffey for anything other than the vet minimumn, which really sucks for him. It would help a lot with our depth, though. Just a thought.