Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

That's just dumb thinking.

We didn't want to sign Siakam to the max like they didn't want to sign BI to max.

We were willing to sign Siakam to a lesser #, NO was willing to sign BI to a lesser #.

We traded Siakam. They traded BI.

Indy gave up 3 1sts to sign PS. We gave up 2 1st to sign BI.

You would swear the Raps did something unheard of by trading for and signing BI.

Technically NO was willing to sign BI to a bigger amount and we also only gave up 1 1st rounder to help strengthen your points even more lol.

Anyways, im done responding to horrible retorts lol.

Yeah I knew it was one 1st...dumb typo.

But yeah...the crazies are out tonight. Must be a full moon.

The moon wont save that argument.

[Los_29]

Oh...they do it by weight now?

He gets dislodged by strong winds.

So we should just to get fat guys? Cool.

There was a turning point with Hardcore Fenton Mun. Not sure what happened but he just refuses to have positive discourse. He’s just trying to get a rise out of people.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He gets dislodged by strong winds.

So we should just to get fat guys? Cool.

There was a turning point with Hardcore Fenton Mun. Not sure what happened but he just refuses to have positive discourse. He’s just trying to get a rise out of people.

I'm positive on some things, but a realist on others. Like, what kind of ankle sprain keeps you out a year. Is it the kind that's going to need surgery?

[JB7]

why are people so obsessed with gradey minutes. The guy hasn’t shown enough to desperately find ways to get him minutes. He’s not above Rj or ochai on the depth chart and is fighting Jakobe for rotation minutes.

People want to keep handing out minutes to players who shouldn't be playing. Make players earn their playing time through their play!!! Go to the G League if you gotta work on areas to get there.

The cap makes it an issue. Loading up on more crappy contracts doesn't help.

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

People want to keep handing out minutes to players who shouldn't be playing. Make players earn their playing time through their play!!! Go to the G League if you gotta work on areas to get there.

The cap makes it an issue. Loading up on more crappy contracts doesn't help.

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

All those teams won last year. They don't run these number on a 36 win team.

[Tor_Raps]

People want to keep handing out minutes to players who shouldn't be playing. Make players earn their playing time through their play!!! Go to the G League if you gotta work on areas to get there.

The cap makes it an issue. Loading up on more crappy contracts doesn't help.

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

But the whole premise is that those are the top teams in the East so theyre justified in their spending while we just finished tanking in back to back years.

In the end, we just have to go out there and show the league. Its obviously a massive TBD as to how good we are going to be next year.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The cap makes it an issue. Loading up on more crappy contracts doesn't help.

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

But the whole premise is that those are the top teams in the East so theyre justified in their spending while we just finished tanking in back to back years.

In the end, we just have to go out there and show the league. Its obviously a massive TBD as to how good we are going to be next year.

We'd have to be a 50 win team. At least pushing that.

[JB7]

The cap makes it an issue. Loading up on more crappy contracts doesn't help.

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

All those teams won last year. They don't run these number on a 36 win team.

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season (64-18), and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a successful season (51-31), and playoffs (conference finals)

But those regular season wins were inflated by a putrid East, where many teams were outright tanking in a year of a good draft.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The big issue many podcasters latch onto with the Raps, and some here have is the size of the contracts given out to Raptors players. Let's compare the contracts of the Raps big 5 to contracts for the teams considered to be the top 3 in the East this year (Cavs, Knicks & Magic):

Raps:
- Barnes ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Ingram ($38.1M, $40M, $41.9M PO)
- IQ ($32.5M flat for 4 years)
- RJ ($27.7M, $29.6M)
- Yak ($19.5M, $19.5M, $27.3M, $29.5M, $27.3M - only $5M guaranteed but could increase if plays certain minutes)

Cavs:
- Mobley ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Mitchell ($46.4M, $50.1M, $53.8M, $57.5M, $61.2M)
- Garland ($39.4M, $42.1M, $44.9M)
- Hunter ($23.3M, $24.9M)
- Allen ($20M, $28M, $30.2M, $32.5M)

Magic:
- Banchero ($15.3M, $41.4M, $44.7M, $48M, $51.3M, $54.6 PO)
- Wagner ($38.6M, $41.8M, $44.8M, $47.9M, $51M)
- Bane ($36.7M, $39.4M, $42.2M, $44.9M)
- Suggs ($35M, $32.4M, $29.6M, $26.8M, $26.7M)
- WCJ ($10.9M, $18.1M, $19.6M, $21M TO)

Knicks:
- Towns ($53.1M, $57.1M, $61M PO)
- OG ($39.6M, $42.5M, $45.4M, $48.4M PO)
- Brunson ($35M, $37.8, $40.5M, $43.3M PO)
- Bridges ($24.9M)
- Hart ($19.5M, $20.9M, $22.4M TO)

Considering BI & RJs contracts could be done in a couple of seasons, Raps situation is looking better financially than the top 3 teams in the East.

All those teams won last year. They don't run these number on a 36 win team.

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season, and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a more successful season

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

[JB7]

All those teams won last year. They don't run these number on a 36 win team.

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season, and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a more successful season

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

They also gave up a lot of draft capital for that roster, and if it doesn't work, they are screwed because they are not getting a huge return on the players outside of Banchero, if they can't produce wins.

They are a team locked into their core 4.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season, and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a more successful season

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

They also gave up a lot of draft capital for that roster, and if it doesn't work, they are screwed because they are not getting a huge return on the players outside of Banchero, if they can't produce wins.

They are a team locked into their core 4.

Don't fool yourself, we'll be just as screwed.

[brownbobcat]

I have been one of Siakam's biggest supporters and fans for a long time, but it is arguable that he is a better than Ingram at their absolute bests. The reality is Siakam has generally been healthy and is good for 35-40 MPG if necessary while Ingram hasn't had many healthy/full seasons (for a variety of reasons) since 20/21, but they are in a similar tier of stars where they are borderline all-stars to borderline All-NBA 2nd/3rd team kind of guys depending on the season. Regarding the OG/Ingram remark, you absolutely can say the same thing about Ingram. He would play ~36 MPG for every team in the league in the playoffs. It seems like you've just forgotten how good Ingram actually is because of his injuries.

Ingram hasn't been at his absolute best in 5 years, that's a problem. Somebody else called him a "potential All Star" in this thread, which is a real funny way of saying "not an All Star anymore".

Ingram is decent when healthy and no doubt the superior offensive player, but OG fits on every team in the league. He is a true 1-5 defender, can be played in big or small lineups - that's why he got traded for a big package and Ingram was moved for scraps. Elite playoff teams don't need Ingram to be the #1 guy, they already have players that do that more effectively. He'd be no better than MPJ.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope he has a full recovery and gets back to the player he was, but it was 100% a desperate move.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I have been one of Siakam's biggest supporters and fans for a long time, but it is arguable that he is a better than Ingram at their absolute bests. The reality is Siakam has generally been healthy and is good for 35-40 MPG if necessary while Ingram hasn't had many healthy/full seasons (for a variety of reasons) since 20/21, but they are in a similar tier of stars where they are borderline all-stars to borderline All-NBA 2nd/3rd team kind of guys depending on the season. Regarding the OG/Ingram remark, you absolutely can say the same thing about Ingram. He would play ~36 MPG for every team in the league in the playoffs. It seems like you've just forgotten how good Ingram actually is because of his injuries.

Ingram hasn't been at his absolute best in 5 years, that's a problem. Somebody else called him a "potential All Star" in this thread, which is a real funny way of saying "not an All Star anymore".

Ingram is decent when healthy and no doubt the superior offensive player, but OG fits on every team in the league. He is a true 1-5 defender, can be played in big or small lineups - that's why he got traded for a big package and Ingram was moved for scraps. Elite playoff teams don't need Ingram to be the #1 guy, they already have players that do that more effectively. He'd be no better than MPJ.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope he has a full recovery and gets back to the player he was, but it was 100% a desperate move.

Same time he had the blood clot and deep vein thrombosis. Might also have something to do with the foot, and the slow healing.

[JB7]

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

They also gave up a lot of draft capital for that roster, and if it doesn't work, they are screwed because they are not getting a huge return on the players outside of Banchero, if they can't produce wins.

They are a team locked into their core 4.

Don't fool yourself, we'll be just as screwed.

I don’t think you are looking closely enough at the length of the contracts.

[PushDaRock]

All those teams won last year. They don't run these number on a 36 win team.

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season, and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a more successful season

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

Who would that be?

[PushDaRock]

I have been one of Siakam's biggest supporters and fans for a long time, but it is arguable that he is a better than Ingram at their absolute bests. The reality is Siakam has generally been healthy and is good for 35-40 MPG if necessary while Ingram hasn't had many healthy/full seasons (for a variety of reasons) since 20/21, but they are in a similar tier of stars where they are borderline all-stars to borderline All-NBA 2nd/3rd team kind of guys depending on the season. Regarding the OG/Ingram remark, you absolutely can say the same thing about Ingram. He would play ~36 MPG for every team in the league in the playoffs. It seems like you've just forgotten how good Ingram actually is because of his injuries.

Ingram hasn't been at his absolute best in 5 years, that's a problem. Somebody else called him a "potential All Star" in this thread, which is a real funny way of saying "not an All Star anymore".

Ingram is decent when healthy and no doubt the superior offensive player, but OG fits on every team in the league. He is a true 1-5 defender, can be played in big or small lineups - that's why he got traded for a big package and Ingram was moved for scraps. Elite playoff teams don't need Ingram to be the #1 guy, they already have players that do that more effectively. He'd be no better than MPJ.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope he has a full recovery and gets back to the player he was, but it was 100% a desperate move.

Would Ingram be the #1 scorer on the Pacers?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

They also gave up a lot of draft capital for that roster, and if it doesn't work, they are screwed because they are not getting a huge return on the players outside of Banchero, if they can't produce wins.

They are a team locked into their core 4.

Don't fool yourself, we'll be just as screwed.

I don’t think you are looking closely enough at the length of the contracts.

Three years, so are we building around Dick or CMB at that point?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Magic were 41-41, and essentially got swept in the 1st round
Cavs were successful in the season, and then essentially got swept in the 2nd round
Knicks had a more successful season

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

Who would that be?

Palo, unless you think BI plays more over the next three.

[Kurtz]

Magic have a young true #1, not a oft injured journeyman.

Who would that be?

Palo, unless you think BI plays more over the next three.

I wouldn't bet against him, but Paolo still has something to prove. He puts up points, but inefficiently.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Who would that be?

Palo, unless you think BI plays more over the next three.

I wouldn't bet against him, but Paolo still has something to prove. He puts up points, but inefficiently.

He's 22, I wouldn't bet against him either.