Offseason 2025 Thread

[MasterIchiro]

Why does the front office have little interest in seeing how all the guys gel with a viable starting center though? What's the point of leaving out a key ingredient if you're evaluating overall team chemistry?

I think the instinct is to trust that a management group has a plan and if we don't see evidence of execution, we project some version of a plan that is our own, not theirs.

But putting out Plumlee as C1 or C2 can't be plan A. Looks like a failed plan.

My hope is that restricted free agency is holding up movement on other fronts, including consolidation trades for centers that would change a budget projection.

Kuminga, Giddey, Grimes, Cam Thomas. Some big names floating around out there. Nets, for example, might not want to move on Claxton before they settle with Cam Thomas, or maybe make a run at Kuminga, or maybe just act as a facilitator given they're the one cap space team who can carve space for other teams to bid on one of these free agents.

If the Hornets themselves also see someone like Kuminga as some rare opportunity, Charlotte may be concentrating resources in that target, and deciding he's worth skimping on center upgrades for now.

[MasterIchiro]

I have recently read (Yahoo Sports) that sign-and-trades follow funky rules when it comes to restricted free agents.

Mainly, in the case of Kuminga for example, if the Warriors were to sign him for 25 million, he only counts as 12.5 million outgoing salary, limiting the Warriors to incoming 12.5 million. So the team trading for Kuminga is charged the full 25 million, but can only send back 12.5. So that team needs a) cap space or b) a facilitator.

The Nets are the lone big facilitator for all of restricted free agency.

[yosemiteben]

For me Kuminga is definitely the most interesting RFA, but not sure how I feel about him. Super athletic but low stocks, low volume 3PTA and low 3PT%, low FT %, not super impressive rebounding given his size and athleticism, not super impressive defense. His counting stats per 36 are pretty good looking. He's still only 22 years old and he's playing for a coach who has been known to jerk around minutes for young guys, which obviously could be influencing his production, but still not super excited about him.

Thoughts?

[MasterIchiro]

Kuminga, 22, has proven capable of putting up numbers, averaging 15.8 points on 49.9% shooting and 4.7 rebounds in 25.6 minutes per game over the last two seasons. That production has increased when he’s gotten the opportunity to start: 17.1 points on 51.4% shooting to go with 5.1 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1.4 combined steals-and-blocks in 28.8 minutes per game over 56 starts.

Only a handful of players Kuminga’s age have produced like that over the past couple of seasons: Alperen Şengün, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Chet Holmgren and Jalen Johnson. All five of those guys have already secured monster bags; Kuminga, though, continues to wait.

My concern with his "Hornets DNA" creds focuses on his limitations as a connector with a career 1.3:1.0 assist/turnover ratio.

But he's younger than Kalkbrenner.

And the Hornets just added two connectors with each first round pick.

Further, Kuminga might represent one of those rare opportunities for a small market team to move the needle in a trade without surrendering anything significant longterm.

[yosemiteben]

Kuminga, 22, has proven capable of putting up numbers, averaging 15.8 points on 49.9% shooting and 4.7 rebounds in 25.6 minutes per game over the last two seasons. That production has increased when he’s gotten the opportunity to start: 17.1 points on 51.4% shooting to go with 5.1 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1.4 combined steals-and-blocks in 28.8 minutes per game over 56 starts.

Only a handful of players Kuminga’s age have produced like that over the past couple of seasons: Alperen Şengün, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Chet Holmgren and Jalen Johnson. All five of those guys have already secured monster bags; Kuminga, though, continues to wait.

My concern with his "Hornets DNA" creds focuses on his limitations as a connector with a career 1.3:1.0 assist/turnover ratio.

But he's younger than Kalkbrenner.

And the Hornets just added two connectors with each first round pick.

Further, Kuminga might represent one of those rare opportunities for a small market team to move the needle in a trade without surrendering anything significant longterm.

Yeah, I don't hate the curveball approach of someone who just attacks the basket, kinda like Tre Mann.

I suppose the more specific question I'm mulling is, assuming we could free up the space (and ignoring the cost to do that), how much of a contract would you want to give him? I'd be pretty nervous about anything above the MLE.

[MasterIchiro]

Kuminga, 22, has proven capable of putting up numbers, averaging 15.8 points on 49.9% shooting and 4.7 rebounds in 25.6 minutes per game over the last two seasons. That production has increased when he’s gotten the opportunity to start: 17.1 points on 51.4% shooting to go with 5.1 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1.4 combined steals-and-blocks in 28.8 minutes per game over 56 starts.

Only a handful of players Kuminga’s age have produced like that over the past couple of seasons: Alperen Şengün, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Chet Holmgren and Jalen Johnson. All five of those guys have already secured monster bags; Kuminga, though, continues to wait.

My concern with his "Hornets DNA" creds focuses on his limitations as a connector with a career 1.3:1.0 assist/turnover ratio.

But he's younger than Kalkbrenner.

And the Hornets just added two connectors with each first round pick.

Further, Kuminga might represent one of those rare opportunities for a small market team to move the needle in a trade without surrendering anything significant longterm.

Yeah, I don't hate the curveball approach of someone who just attacks the basket, kinda like Tre Mann.

I suppose the more specific question I'm mulling is, assuming we could free up the space (and ignoring the cost to do that), how much of a contract would you want to give him? I'd be pretty nervous about anything above the MLE.

Not sure about his side's asking price right now, but I wouldn't rule out 25 million. If it were anything close to the MLE, the Warriors would've simply settled with him by now.

I suspect with the Nets being the lone cap space team remaining, teams interested in Kuminga have to negotiate through them.

I haven't ruled out the Hornets negotiating with the Nets on two fronts, one for Kuminga, the other for Claxton. Perhaps Hornets don't have to capacity to pull off both, but we could be looking at one or the other as a budget line.

Claxton is owed 3 years 69.4 million.

Kuminga may settle with some team somewhere around there, planning to reach unrestricted free agency at age 25.

We gave Miles 3 years 75? Somewhere around there?

I don't see a roster where we keep both players, so the budget line set for Kuminga could climb up to the same level as the Miles contract if we were to reroute Miles Bridges and open that slot.

Miles has a career 2:1 assist/turnover. But we did just bring in Collin Sexton. We don't really need secondary playmaking from that slot. And it was too much to ask Miles for it, or Miller.

LaMelo - Sexton - Miller - Kuminga - Diabaté could be fun???

[LofJ]

I could see a 3 team deal with the Warriors and Nets.

Kuminga gets signed to a little over $27 million by the Nets with us sending Josh Green and a 1st to the Warriors and getting Claxton back.

LaMelo/Mann/Dinwiddie
Sexton/Kon/Connaughton
Miller/McNeeley/James
Bridges/Grant/Salaun
Claxton/Diabate/Kalkbrenner

We cut Plumlee as his services are no longer needed.

Now that's a team to be excited about!

[Chapelchilla]

I could see a 3 team deal with the Warriors and Nets.

Kuminga gets signed to a little over $27 million by the Nets with us sending Josh Green and a 1st to the Warriors and getting Claxton back.

LaMelo/Mann/Dinwiddie
Sexton/Kon/Connaughton
Miller/McNeeley/James
Bridges/Grant/Salaun
Claxton/Diabate/Kalkbrenner

We cut Plumlee as his services are no longer needed.

Now that's a team to be excited about!

I would be happy with that deal

[fatlever]

I could see a 3 team deal with the Warriors and Nets.

Kuminga gets signed to a little over $27 million by the Nets with us sending Josh Green and a 1st to the Warriors and getting Claxton back.

LaMelo/Mann/Dinwiddie
Sexton/Kon/Connaughton
Miller/McNeeley/James
Bridges/Grant/Salaun
Claxton/Diabate/Kalkbrenner

We cut Plumlee as his services are no longer needed.

Now that's a team to be excited about!

Can you do three team sign and trade deals?

[fatlever]

if we were to somehow decide to bring in kuminga... Are we assuming in this scenario that he's playing small forward or power forward? Is he immediately a starter or is he coming off the bench? Are we assuming that Miles is headed to the Warriors in the other direction?

[yosemiteben]

My concern with his "Hornets DNA" creds focuses on his limitations as a connector with a career 1.3:1.0 assist/turnover ratio.

But he's younger than Kalkbrenner.

And the Hornets just added two connectors with each first round pick.

Further, Kuminga might represent one of those rare opportunities for a small market team to move the needle in a trade without surrendering anything significant longterm.

Yeah, I don't hate the curveball approach of someone who just attacks the basket, kinda like Tre Mann.

I suppose the more specific question I'm mulling is, assuming we could free up the space (and ignoring the cost to do that), how much of a contract would you want to give him? I'd be pretty nervous about anything above the MLE.

Not sure about his side's asking price right now, but I wouldn't rule out 25 million. If it were anything close to the MLE, the Warriors would've simply settled with him by now.

I suspect with the Nets being the lone cap space team remaining, teams interested in Kuminga have to negotiate through them.

I haven't ruled out the Hornets negotiating with the Nets on two fronts, one for Kuminga, the other for Claxton. Perhaps Hornets don't have to capacity to pull off both, but we could be looking at one or the other as a budget line.

Claxton is owed 3 years 69.4 million.

Kuminga may settle with some team somewhere around there, planning to reach unrestricted free agency at age 25.

We gave Miles 3 years 75? Somewhere around there?

I don't see a roster where we keep both players, so the budget line set for Kuminga could climb up to the same level as the Miles contract if we were to reroute Miles Bridges and open that slot.

Miles has a career 2:1 assist/turnover. But we did just bring in Collin Sexton. We don't really need secondary playmaking from that slot. And it was too much to ask Miles for it, or Miller.

LaMelo - Sexton - Miller - Kuminga - Diabaté could be fun???

Agreed with you about Kuminga's likely ask and about the fact that the Warriors would likely match an MLE level offer. That's why I'm not as interested as I would otherwise be. I just don't want to pay a lot to roll the dice when the Warriors don't want to, and I don't really want to pay more than the Warriors are willing to.

This is one of those situations where I wouldn't hate it if we got aggressive and chased him, but I also wouldn't prefer and think it's probably not a good idea.

[MasterIchiro]

I could see a 3 team deal with the Warriors and Nets.

Kuminga gets signed to a little over $27 million by the Nets with us sending Josh Green and a 1st to the Warriors and getting Claxton back.

LaMelo/Mann/Dinwiddie
Sexton/Kon/Connaughton
Miller/McNeeley/James
Bridges/Grant/Salaun
Claxton/Diabate/Kalkbrenner

We cut Plumlee as his services are no longer needed.

Now that's a team to be excited about!

It's a good concept. However, for it to work, Hornets also have to send out more money than just Green (13.6) if we are taking on Claxton (25.3).

+Connaughton (9.4)?

We also wouldn't cut Plumlee unless we needed the roster spot which we wouldn't since Claxton takes the place of Green.

But Plumlee would officially take the role of Taj Gibson which is the max he deserves at this point in his career.

I just find it absurd that we would game the Suns in their desperation needing a C1 (Mark) and C2 (Richards) only to swoop in and take their washed up leftovers C3 (Plumlee) and go into the season planning to make him C1.

Suspicious activity.

[MasterIchiro]

Yeah, I don't hate the curveball approach of someone who just attacks the basket, kinda like Tre Mann.

I suppose the more specific question I'm mulling is, assuming we could free up the space (and ignoring the cost to do that), how much of a contract would you want to give him? I'd be pretty nervous about anything above the MLE.

Not sure about his side's asking price right now, but I wouldn't rule out 25 million. If it were anything close to the MLE, the Warriors would've simply settled with him by now.

I suspect with the Nets being the lone cap space team remaining, teams interested in Kuminga have to negotiate through them.

I haven't ruled out the Hornets negotiating with the Nets on two fronts, one for Kuminga, the other for Claxton. Perhaps Hornets don't have to capacity to pull off both, but we could be looking at one or the other as a budget line.

Claxton is owed 3 years 69.4 million.

Kuminga may settle with some team somewhere around there, planning to reach unrestricted free agency at age 25.

We gave Miles 3 years 75? Somewhere around there?

I don't see a roster where we keep both players, so the budget line set for Kuminga could climb up to the same level as the Miles contract if we were to reroute Miles Bridges and open that slot.

Miles has a career 2:1 assist/turnover. But we did just bring in Collin Sexton. We don't really need secondary playmaking from that slot. And it was too much to ask Miles for it, or Miller.

LaMelo - Sexton - Miller - Kuminga - Diabaté could be fun???

Agreed with you about Kuminga's likely ask and about the fact that the Warriors would likely match an MLE level offer. That's why I'm not as interested as I would otherwise be. I just don't want to pay a lot to roll the dice when the Warriors don't want to, and I don't really want to pay more than the Warriors are willing to.

This is one of those situations where I wouldn't hate it if we got aggressive and chased him, but I also wouldn't prefer and think it's probably not a good idea.

I agree Kuminga is too much of an uncertainty at that price, but I can see a team like the Nets make that sort of gamble because they're not operating on a small market longterm. They can use money to bail themselves out. They have reduced costs, rostered 5 rookies to control longterm costs, built up surplus draft picks, etc. They're ready to deal.

[Chapelchilla]

Much as Miles has been an issue regarding his personal life impacting the Hornets in the past he has actually been mostly good as a ball player lately. Maybe not a real PF but I do not think Kuminga fixes that either.

[JustBuzzin]

I could see a 3 team deal with the Warriors and Nets.

Kuminga gets signed to a little over $27 million by the Nets with us sending Josh Green and a 1st to the Warriors and getting Claxton back.

LaMelo/Mann/Dinwiddie
Sexton/Kon/Connaughton
Miller/McNeeley/James
Bridges/Grant/Salaun
Claxton/Diabate/Kalkbrenner

We cut Plumlee as his services are no longer needed.

Now that's a team to be excited about!

Sign me up

[LofJ]

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[JDR720]

The full section

On the draft: “We had the best draft in the league. Of course, 29 other teams will probably say the same thing,” a Hornets front office executive said. “But we’re fired up. We wanted guys who could complement LaMelo (Ball) and Brandon (Miller) and to help open up the floor for them. Kon (Knueppel) and Liam (McNeeley) can do that. But we didn’t want one-skill guys. We all saw Indiana and the Thunder, right? You have to be able to be versatile. We’re getting there. And we hit in the second round with Sion (James) and Ryan (Kalkbrenner) too. We considered both of them at 29, but knew that Liam wouldn’t come back around. So, we held our breath and still got both guys. Internally, we’ve said we feel like we have four first-rounders, because all four guys we got had first-round evaluations on our board.”

On a full roster: “Yeah. We’ve still got some work to do, for sure. That’s what the rest of this summer will be about. There are some difficult decisions coming, but that’s not bad thing, right? Better that than not having enough guys,” a Hornets front office executive said.

On frontcourt depth: “I get why you are asking. But we think we’ve got guys who can play. Mason (Plumlee) will help with his experience and his passing ability. We’ll have Grant (Williams) back and he’s a great connector. We love Moussa (Diabate). He plays with such great energy and he’s awesome on the glass. And Ryan (Kalkbrenner) has been awesome out here (Summer League). We think he’ll shoot it eventually too,” a Hornets coach said.

On LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller and their health: “Those guys are still our anchors, pillars, foundation, whatever you want to call it. But you are right, we have to get them on the floor. They played like 20 games together last year. That’s not going to cut it. We have to figure that out, and we’re confident we will. Our roster moves at the draft and beyond were about building around those two guys with complementary and connecting pieces to them,” a Hornets front office executive said.

[JDR720]

The interesting thing, to me, is they didn't mention Miles.

Also basically confirmed what we've been saying about the draft. They think Melo and Brandon are the teams core pieces, this offseason was/is about finding guys who can play with them and increasing the depth in case of injury.

[KembaWalker]

i love the phrase "I get why you are asking."