What does a Lauri to Detroit trade look like?

[Daddy 801]

No, I’m not annoyed. This is a basketball forum. Not worth getting upset over.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said. I would probably hold onto my young guys if I was Detroit. Having said that…the asking price is the asking price. GM’s either are or are not willing to pay that price. If a team doesn’t want to have to send out young players they will have to send out more draft capital. And that’s my point regardless if it’s Lauri or another player. That was my whole point. I wasn’t assuming anything or trying to make you annoyed. That’s a you thing, not a me thing. I’d suggest chilling and remembering we’re in a forum discussing guys making millions playing a game. I’m not attacking you personally by pointing out that if you don’t send young players you have to send more draft assets. It just is what it is.

Ugh, man. Spare me this “be calm” silliness. I’m approaching retirement age and the only things I’m getting better at are staying calm and taking naps. Your issue is your willingness to go beyond what was actually stated. I thought it was a personal attack? Saying it’s just a game? Please stop with that. Even someone as old as me knows what gaslighting looks like.

Ok. My point still stands. If you don’t send young players you send more draft capital. If you’re fine with that, ok. If not….you’re not going to get a good player in a trade. If you want to trade Tobias and picks so be it.

[cgf]

I totally get the impulse to sit tight and enjoy, but I do think the Pistons need to do something to avoid regression this season, and Lauri could be very interesting if the price was right.

What would Utah kick in to get Ausar & Harris for Lauri+?

[Canadafan]

No, I’m not annoyed. This is a basketball forum. Not worth getting upset over.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said. I would probably hold onto my young guys if I was Detroit. Having said that…the asking price is the asking price. GM’s either are or are not willing to pay that price. If a team doesn’t want to have to send out young players they will have to send out more draft capital. And that’s my point regardless if it’s Lauri or another player. That was my whole point. I wasn’t assuming anything or trying to make you annoyed. That’s a you thing, not a me thing. I’d suggest chilling and remembering we’re in a forum discussing guys making millions playing a game. I’m not attacking you personally by pointing out that if you don’t send young players you have to send more draft assets. It just is what it is.

Ugh, man. Spare me this “be calm” silliness. I’m approaching retirement age and the only things I’m getting better at are staying calm and taking naps. Your issue is your willingness to go beyond what was actually stated. I thought it was a personal attack? Saying it’s just a game? Please stop with that. Even someone as old as me knows what gaslighting looks like.

Ok. My point still stands. If you don’t send young players you send more draft capital. If you’re fine with that, ok. If not….you’re not going to get a good player in a trade. If you want to trade Tobias and picks so be it.

Yes. Tobias and picks, no young players. We are going to have to use our 14mil TPE soon though on a player, to combine with Tobias and Paul Reed to match up contract wise. Thats the only way I'd trade for that big contract of his

[theBigLip]

I totally get the impulse to sit tight and enjoy, but I do think the Pistons need to do something to avoid regression this season, and Lauri could be very interesting if the price was right.

What would Utah kick in to get Ausar & Harris for Lauri+?

Ausar, IMHO, could be DPOY even this coming season. His bro and Dyson might have something to say about that, but Ausar is REALLY good. He’s a top 5 pick that’s hit. So for me he’s worth at least a couple of near term, unprotected picks that are likely to be in the lottery.

[theBigLip]

I assume Ausar currently has more perceived value than Holland, so he’d be the one I’d trade of the two. But not for Lauri.

My personal keeper list goes: Cade, Holland, Ausar, Stewart, Duren, Ivey. But I’m lower on Ivey than most of our board, and I still have some hope for Duren’s defense. I’m also a big culture guy, I think that stuff really matters unless the talent advantage is overwhelming.

I don’t think you’re getting any quality player if you have all of your young talent as untouchable. Any team you trade with isn’t only going to want only Tobias back. Something of value has to be sent unless you are willing to send even more FRP’s and no young players.

I don’t think you’re interpreting what I’ve said correctly, or perhaps you just overvalue Markkanen nearly as badly as Utah does.

See what I did there? I went two steps beyond what you actually said. Annoying, right?

No one is untouchable. But none of our three most valuable pieces should be going out for a guy that is going to have a very hard time justifying his contract. Lauri would need to play at his level from three seasons ago AND stay almost entirely healthy to be worth 50 million a year. We can argue theoretical scenarios about how he’ll bounce back in a different environment, but that’s all just speculation. Paying anything near Ainge’s reported asking price is assuming nearly all of the risk, and no competent GM is going to do that. Fortunately for Utah, there are still incompetent teams/owners/GMs out there, so maybe things go their way at some point. Or maybe they just hold onto him, as their latest difficult-to-believe press releases indicate.

Max or near-max deals for non-max players is the new competency check for NBA front offices. Detroit already took their gamble, paying Cade when he isn’t worth it yet, accolades aside. That’s a different, lower level of risk, though, banking on a developing young star that is your best player and leader. Teams that don’t have such a player but pay one anyway, that’s the issue, and Lauri is one of those guys. As I stated earlier in this thread, if you sincerely believe acquiring Lauri makes you a legit contender in the very near future, perhaps the calculus changes. It’s a big reach to think that’s true in Detroit. Taking another year to see what the young guys are looking like makes more sense unless the price is significantly lower.

Great point. The art of max deals is the ultimate GM test these days. No more “Big 3 and not worry about the cap”. Even a Big 2 is risky. And god forbid you get stuck w a bad max deal (Suns, Bucks). That’s just too much of the precious cap space going to waste.

Lauri is really good and would help the Pistons. But is he worth the contract? Probably but certainly debatable.

[oldncreaky]

I totally get the impulse to sit tight and enjoy, but I do think the Pistons need to do something to avoid regression this season, and Lauri could be very interesting if the price was right.

What would Utah kick in to get Ausar & Harris for Lauri+?

Ausar, IMHO, could be DPOY even this coming season. His bro and Dyson might have something to say about that, but Ausar is REALLY good. He’s a top 5 pick that’s hit. So for me he’s worth at least a couple of near term, unprotected picks that are likely to be in the lottery.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as DPOY. However, I mostly agree with: Ausar is the top defender on our roster and could easily get an all-D nod if Detroit has a decent season. We've also seen that his on-court impact translates extremely well in the playoffs.

Given current performance, current salary, team fit, and years of team control, I have Ausar as a more valuable trade piece than Lauri right now. Considering the potential for Ausar to improve, and I have absolutely no interest in a trade for Lauri that includes Ausar.

[Hugi Mancura]

I don’t think you’re getting any quality player if you have all of your young talent as untouchable. Any team you trade with isn’t only going to want only Tobias back. Something of value has to be sent unless you are willing to send even more FRP’s and no young players.

I don’t think you’re interpreting what I’ve said correctly, or perhaps you just overvalue Markkanen nearly as badly as Utah does.

See what I did there? I went two steps beyond what you actually said. Annoying, right?

No one is untouchable. But none of our three most valuable pieces should be going out for a guy that is going to have a very hard time justifying his contract. Lauri would need to play at his level from three seasons ago AND stay almost entirely healthy to be worth 50 million a year. We can argue theoretical scenarios about how he’ll bounce back in a different environment, but that’s all just speculation. Paying anything near Ainge’s reported asking price is assuming nearly all of the risk, and no competent GM is going to do that. Fortunately for Utah, there are still incompetent teams/owners/GMs out there, so maybe things go their way at some point. Or maybe they just hold onto him, as their latest difficult-to-believe press releases indicate.

Max or near-max deals for non-max players is the new competency check for NBA front offices. Detroit already took their gamble, paying Cade when he isn’t worth it yet, accolades aside. That’s a different, lower level of risk, though, banking on a developing young star that is your best player and leader. Teams that don’t have such a player but pay one anyway, that’s the issue, and Lauri is one of those guys. As I stated earlier in this thread, if you sincerely believe acquiring Lauri makes you a legit contender in the very near future, perhaps the calculus changes. It’s a big reach to think that’s true in Detroit. Taking another year to see what the young guys are looking like makes more sense unless the price is significantly lower.

Great point. The art of max deals is the ultimate GM test these days. No more “Big 3 and not worry about the cap”. Even a Big 2 is risky. And god forbid you get stuck w a bad max deal (Suns, Bucks). That’s just too much of the precious cap space going to waste.

Lauri is really good and would help the Pistons. But is he worth the contract? Probably but certainly debatable.

Absolutely if he plays like 2022-23, yes if he plays like 23-24, no if he plays like 24-25. Who knows what are getting, so if everyone wait until European championships then maybe people might get a hint what kind of season Lauri will have, but problem is if he has great championships his price might get up too.

It is true CBA is making things tough to front offices. They actually need to know what they are doing. No more throwing money around anymore.

Certain way Lauri's contract is getting better. People are writing 70M$ contracts now, so cap space is going up fast. New TV money probably mean cap is going up 10% each year, so it's going faster up than Lauri's contract.

[Daddy 801]

I don’t think you’re interpreting what I’ve said correctly, or perhaps you just overvalue Markkanen nearly as badly as Utah does.

See what I did there? I went two steps beyond what you actually said. Annoying, right?

No one is untouchable. But none of our three most valuable pieces should be going out for a guy that is going to have a very hard time justifying his contract. Lauri would need to play at his level from three seasons ago AND stay almost entirely healthy to be worth 50 million a year. We can argue theoretical scenarios about how he’ll bounce back in a different environment, but that’s all just speculation. Paying anything near Ainge’s reported asking price is assuming nearly all of the risk, and no competent GM is going to do that. Fortunately for Utah, there are still incompetent teams/owners/GMs out there, so maybe things go their way at some point. Or maybe they just hold onto him, as their latest difficult-to-believe press releases indicate.

Max or near-max deals for non-max players is the new competency check for NBA front offices. Detroit already took their gamble, paying Cade when he isn’t worth it yet, accolades aside. That’s a different, lower level of risk, though, banking on a developing young star that is your best player and leader. Teams that don’t have such a player but pay one anyway, that’s the issue, and Lauri is one of those guys. As I stated earlier in this thread, if you sincerely believe acquiring Lauri makes you a legit contender in the very near future, perhaps the calculus changes. It’s a big reach to think that’s true in Detroit. Taking another year to see what the young guys are looking like makes more sense unless the price is significantly lower.

Great point. The art of max deals is the ultimate GM test these days. No more “Big 3 and not worry about the cap”. Even a Big 2 is risky. And god forbid you get stuck w a bad max deal (Suns, Bucks). That’s just too much of the precious cap space going to waste.

Lauri is really good and would help the Pistons. But is he worth the contract? Probably but certainly debatable.

Absolutely if he plays like 2022-23, yes if he plays like 23-24, no if he plays like 24-25. Who knows what are getting, so if everyone wait until European championships then maybe people might get a hint what kind of season Lauri will have, but problem is if he has great championships his price might get up too.

It is true CBA is making things tough to front offices. They actually need to know what they are doing. No more throwing money around anymore.

Certain way Lauri's contract is getting better. People are writing 70M$ contracts now, so cap space is going up fast. New TV money probably mean cap is going up 10% each year, so it's going faster up than Lauri's contract.

I think this is why Ainge Jr. is in no rush. Utah is lucky enough they don’t need to worry about moving Lauri or not. If he plays well his contract that is viewed as a negative by many may look reasonable or good in a year or so. We all call contracts bad contracts and then the CBA goes up so fast that a year or two later what looks like too much of the cap space for a player looks like a deal. Of course he could get injured or play poorly and no one wants him, but considering his style of play he should be fine as long as Utah doesn’t try their experiment of trying to play him like Giannis instead of playing him like Klay.

I don’t blame a lot of teams not wanting him. He’s a unique player. A young team with lots of rookie scale contracts could really benefit from him on the team. If a team has 2-3 close to max players he probably isn’t going to fit the payroll well. Time will tell. I personally don’t mind him staying in Utah. If a good deal comes along great, if not we are moving towards all rookie deals minus Kesslers deal coming up.

[tmorgan]

Utah’s issue is that they absolutely need to tank to keep their pick in a very good top 5 of the upcoming draft. Only the worst record in the league is guaranteed a top 5 pick. They also need to develop Bailey, and keeping his strange personality happy is going to require lots of shots.

The tanking thing they’ve mostly handled with other moves, I think, tho a repeat from Lauri of a couple years ago will win them some games they don’t want to win. The shots thing for Bailey, though — Lauri and Ace can play together, but neither are good passers and both are (potentially, in Ace’s case) good scorers, so the fit likely isn’t great. Ace has real defensive potential that Lauri lacks. I like that kid, although it feels like he’s going to need some “personality wrangling”, if you know what I mean. Deferring to Markkanen to push his value up doesn’t seem like something Bailey will do.

[Daddy 801]

Utah’s issue is that they absolutely need to tank to keep their pick in a very good top 5 of the upcoming draft. Only the worst record in the league is guaranteed a top 5 pick. They also need to develop Bailey, and keeping his strange personality happy is going to require lots of shots.

The tanking thing they’ve mostly handled with other moves, I think, tho a repeat from Lauri of a couple years ago will win them some games they don’t want to win. The shots thing for Bailey, though — Lauri and Ace can play together, but neither are good passers and both are (potentially, in Ace’s case) good scorers, so the fit likely isn’t great. Ace has real defensive potential that Lauri lacks. I like that kid, although it feels like he’s going to need some “personality wrangling”, if you know what I mean. Deferring to Markkanen to push his value up doesn’t seem like something Bailey will do.

I honestly am not worried about winning to many games. Utah has Lauri and Kessler as vets. Everyone else is young. We’re going to suck regardless of Lauri’s playing time. At least IMO.

[babyjax13]

I totally get the impulse to sit tight and enjoy, but I do think the Pistons need to do something to avoid regression this season, and Lauri could be very interesting if the price was right.

What would Utah kick in to get Ausar & Harris for Lauri+?

I would not add anything of substance and I think that wpupd be a no go for Detroit. I think it is some combination of Harris, Ivey to a third team for assets, and a pick or picks from Detroit to Utah.

[cgf]

I totally get the impulse to sit tight and enjoy, but I do think the Pistons need to do something to avoid regression this season, and Lauri could be very interesting if the price was right.

What would Utah kick in to get Ausar & Harris for Lauri+?

I would not add anything of substance and I think that wpupd be a no go for Detroit. I think it is some combination of Harris, Ivey to a third team for assets, and a pick or picks from Detroit to Utah.

I know some Detroit fans think Ivey is expendable, but last season they desperately needed Schröder’s creation next to Cade in the playoffs and I don’t think that need is solved just by Cade / Holland / Thompson leveling up and Lauri’s finishing advantage over Harris.

I still think the most logical fit for both sides is Holland + unprotected 2026 FRP to upgrade Harris to Markannen, unless ainge is just in love with ausar and Detroit’s fo believes more in Holland. Pistons keep their game breaking defensive wing to complement a high octane offensive trio, you guys get a very interesting wing prospect & a roll of the dice on injuries + regression doing them in next year.

[pipfan]

I think Det should go for it-Lauri is a perfect fit in their lineup

Harris to Miami
Rozier/JJJ/Ivey/2027 unprotected 1st to Utah
Lauri to Det

Miami gets a HUGE upgrade, to help them win now
Utah gets Ivey, JJJ, a pick and saves a ton of $
Det goes for the ECF

Cade/Sasser/Lavert
FA (bring Tim H back?)/Lavert/DRob
Ausar T/Holland
Lauri/Holland/Stewart
Duren/Stewart

[oldncreaky]

I think Det should go for it-Lauri is a perfect fit in their lineup

Harris to Miami
Rozier/JJJ/Ivey/2027 unprotected 1st to Utah
Lauri to Det

Miami gets a HUGE upgrade, to help them win now
Utah gets Ivey, JJJ, a pick and saves a ton of $
Det goes for the ECF

Cade/Sasser/Lavert
FA (bring Tim H back?)/Lavert/DRob
Ausar T/Holland
Lauri/Holland/Stewart
Duren/Stewart

Your resulting DET line up kind of highlights why I don't want to ship out Ivey for a forward. We are very thin at guard, especially someone capable of running the offence. In general, the roster problem that I worry about is guard depth in general, and in particular how we keep from falling to pieces whenever Cade sits.

THJ is not coming back -- he's in Denver. Beasley is toxic. Schroeder is gone too (a big loss)

Lavert, Ausar and Holland are all wings who can handle, not really guards that can command an offence. So is Sasser for that matter: just because he's short doesn't mean he can play PG. And to be honest, there isn't a lot in the pipeline: Jenkins and a rookie played well in SL, but that is SL so I just don't take it too seriously.

DET effectively has 2 NBA-ready guards, Cade and Ivey, and I just don't see trading one of them for a forward. Also, given the price tag on Lauri, I'm really down on trading for him.

[Daddy 801]

I don’t think Utah not would want Ivey because he is also up for an extension sooner than the rest of the young Utah guys (minus Kessler). And Utah is trying to keep cap space open. No idea what Utah plans to do with that cap space, but the front office has signaled they want “flexibility”.

Personally I think they should have traded for Dame and the 31st Bucks pick, but we’ll see if they do anything of value with the cap space.

[cgf]

I think Det should go for it-Lauri is a perfect fit in their lineup

Harris to Miami
Rozier/JJJ/Ivey/2027 unprotected 1st to Utah
Lauri to Det

Miami gets a HUGE upgrade, to help them win now
Utah gets Ivey, JJJ, a pick and saves a ton of $
Det goes for the ECF

Cade/Sasser/Lavert
FA (bring Tim H back?)/Lavert/DRob
Ausar T/Holland
Lauri/Holland/Stewart
Duren/Stewart

Your resulting DET line up kind of highlights why I don't want to ship out Ivey for a forward. We are very thin at guard, especially someone capable of running the offence. In general, the roster problem that I worry about is guard depth in general, and in particular how we keep from falling to pieces whenever Cade sits.

THJ is not coming back -- he's in Denver. Beasley is toxic. Schroeder is gone too (a big loss)

Lavert, Ausar and Holland are all wings who can handle, not really guards that can command an offence. So is Sasser for that matter: just because he's short doesn't mean he can play PG. And to be honest, there isn't a lot in the pipeline: Jenkins and a rookie played well in SL, but that is SL so I just don't take it too seriously.

DET effectively has 2 NBA-ready guards, Cade and Ivey, and I just don't see trading one of them for a forward. Also, given the price tag on Lauri, I'm really down on trading for him.

I agree completely about Ivey...which is why I keep coming back to Holland + 26 FRP to turn Harris into Lauri. You keep Cade & Ivey to run the offense through, and still have Ausar as your wing stopper.

[A_dub06]

Lauri on paper is a perfect fit in Detroit. On paper I’d love to have him and think he could unlock another level on this team with spacing and he was a decent defender under Bickerstaff when he played in Cleveland but his injury history is something I don’t see enough people mentioning and to me at least in practicality, it’s a no go at the asking price. He’s missed many games throughout his career but even in the last 3 seasons he’s only played 68% of his games, that’s not something to be glossed over and poor management to just assume that’s going to change. Played games matter, and the Jazz tanking isn’t an excuse either. I’d rather use assets to trade for Trey Murphy as opposed to Lauri every day of the week

[cgf]

Lauri on paper is a perfect fit in Detroit. On paper I’d love to have him and think he could unlock another level on this team with spacing and he was a decent defender under Bickerstaff when he played in Cleveland but his injury history is something I don’t see enough people mentioning and to me at least in practicality, it’s a no go at the asking price. He’s missed many games throughout his career but even in the last 3 seasons he’s only played 68% of his games, that’s not something to be glossed over and poor management to just assume that’s going to change. Played games matter, and the Jazz tanking isn’t an excuse either. I’d rather use assets to trade for Trey Murphy as opposed to Lauri every day of the week

How many of those games was he “injured” for?

[oldncreaky]

Lauri on paper is a perfect fit in Detroit. On paper I’d love to have him and think he could unlock another level on this team with spacing and he was a decent defender under Bickerstaff when he played in Cleveland but his injury history is something I don’t see enough people mentioning and to me at least in practicality, it’s a no go at the asking price. He’s missed many games throughout his career but even in the last 3 seasons he’s only played 68% of his games, that’s not something to be glossed over and poor management to just assume that’s going to change. Played games matter, and the Jazz tanking isn’t an excuse either. I’d rather use assets to trade for Trey Murphy as opposed to Lauri every day of the week

How many of those games was he “injured” for?

I am not that concerned about Lauri and injuries (he seems pretty typical to me)

For me, I agree about the theoretical fit, but it's about the price, both in trade and in salary.
Would I rather have
A) Lauri at 4/$196 ==> roughly 27% of the cap over the next 4 years
or
B) Holland at 3/$29M ==> roughly 6% of the cap, plus contract control for another 5 years

Close call, but I'd have to go with A.

I'd also have Harris as a neutral expiring, and the FRP is positive, so I'm out from a trade value perspective

But the biggest issue is the impact on the cap sheet. Lauri is now paid where it becomes difficult to fit him onto our cap sheet as soon as next year, and certainly by 2027-2028. I see Lauri as a very useful player, and possibly a good/great 3rd/4th starter. But under the new CBA, you just can't go paying your 3rd/4th guy 27% of the cap and still build a reasonably complete team.

[A_dub06]

Lauri on paper is a perfect fit in Detroit. On paper I’d love to have him and think he could unlock another level on this team with spacing and he was a decent defender under Bickerstaff when he played in Cleveland but his injury history is something I don’t see enough people mentioning and to me at least in practicality, it’s a no go at the asking price. He’s missed many games throughout his career but even in the last 3 seasons he’s only played 68% of his games, that’s not something to be glossed over and poor management to just assume that’s going to change. Played games matter, and the Jazz tanking isn’t an excuse either. I’d rather use assets to trade for Trey Murphy as opposed to Lauri every day of the week

How many of those games was he “injured” for?

Funnily enough Lauri has also missed 68% of the games throughout his career. I don’t care if he hasn’t had a major injury, but history shows he can’t get through a full season without some injury and that needs to be taken into account. People call out Ingram for injuries and he misses the same amount of games as Lauri…..

Your statement infers he was held out for tanking reasons but that’s a farce to imply that’s all it was