Chicago bulls : What is the plan?

[jnrjr79]

I'm not trying to be a doom and gloomer with this comment, but since the end of the Jordan era the plan has always been to remain within the top 5 in attendance and merchandise sales. This is usually accomplished with a roughly .500 record and play-in or late seed playoff appearance. It doesn't matter who's running the FO, this is and always has been the primary goal.

This is a business after all and the way the Reinsdorfs and co. run this organization is optimized to maximize profits above everything else, even winning.

What they don't seem to realize is investing in winning will pay for itself in the long run; look at how profitable we are still coasting off the Jordan era despite having maybe 2 notable seasons since that era ended. Without all that winning we did in the 90s we wouldn't be the money printing machine we are now.

Don't take my word for it. Jerry Reinsdorf has infamously made comments like "strive for 2nd place" and has told his family to sell the White Sox and keep the Bulls after his passing due to the Sox being his passion and the Bulls being a business.

Or just look at how roster management is handled; this organization has paid the luxury tax once in its entire existence and has never been a big player in major free agency pursuits.

These are not the words and actions of anyone who is serious about winning.

The goal is to continue lining the Reinsdorfs and minority owners pockets. How we get there and how many games we win in pursuit of that goal is just the window dressing.

I think a lot of this stuff gets overstated and fundamentally misunderstands profits and how to build a winning team in the NBA.

People state this like if only paid the luxury tax they would be way better, when the reality is the teams that pay the tax are the ones that already are positioned to win. No one pays the luxury tax when they don't have superstars and are .500ish teams.

The Bulls got lucky one time. When they did, they had the best record in the NBA in the 3rd/4th year after that draft. They were an ACL tear away from being a perennial contender for the next decade with capable 2nd and 3rd stars already on the roster and lots of cheap depth pieces and all of their future picks.

When they had that player they made aggressive moves to dump salary to try and surround him with two max contracts and generally seemed like they came in 2nd in the chase for LeBron/Bosh, so they were definitely willing to go all in to make aggressive championship type moves.

Yes, everything else you said is true about wanting profits, selling merch, and selling out the stadium, but largely their results are due to the decision making of the people running the basketball ops. AK doesn't suck because he chases profits, he just has sucked because he's made bad decisions. If he had made good decisions and positioned this team to win 50+ games, they'd make way more profits.

If they won 50+ games, you would then see if they would pay the luxury tax or not pay the luxury tax in order to chase a title (probably would pay some, but not 2nd apron style), but that would be the point where money gets in the way. Building a team to 50 wins first is something you do prior to looking at whether to pay the tax, and that is entirely on the combination of luck / FO execution.

So yeah, I'd be cynical about whether the Bulls will or won't pay big time in the future with a title on the line, but nothing about aiming for 40 wins is about generating profit or a set goal. That's about failure of the basketball ops people. A 50 win 2nd round playoff team that didn't pay the tax would probably make 50-100M more per year in profit than what they're doing now.

Bingo. There are so many posts on this forum that say something to the effect of "the Bulls don't care about wins and losses, because they're just in this to make money," without acknowledging that if the Bulls won more basketball games, they would also make more money. It's not like the only way to a decent run in the playoffs is by being a 2nd apron team and paying hundreds of millions of dollars of tax.

[Guru]

I also think it's really silly to have a "plan". The team building rules are so constraining that it's best to just continuously analyze your situation and look at how all possible moves affect your 5 year outlook, and be ready to pivot at any moment to a variety of different rosters. I've never understood the notion that in order to win you need some grand narrative tale or vision to unfold over the course of years.

Fair point. AK strikes me more as tactician than strategist. Last offseason/season what about getting value for Zach and Caruso. IMO this season will be about putting Giddey and Matas in positions to improve, test Coby before writing a big check, and getting value from Vuc. I also think he wants to come away with at least one meaningful piece via trade of some of our expirings.

People act like the only way to have a plan is to know step by step exactly what you want to do. This is more wayfinding. You know the goal but there are many ways to get there and most things are out of your control so you have to adapt with circumstances. Injuries to your own players, rapid or slow player development, winning the lottery, gaining a pick because the Trailblazers improved, injuries to other players on other teams make them sellers at the deadline or buyers to replace the injured player, contract demands are steeper or lower than expected, somehow the Mavericks are willing to trade Luka....you have a plan within these unknowns but pivot as needed.

[Guru]

I’ll try to answer what I think they intend the current plan to be:

1. Resign Giddey, make him the primary ball-handler and playmaker and build a team that considers his strengths and weaknesses.

2. Hope Matas is a franchise player.

3. Develop Essengue as an important part of step 1 above.

4. Give Coby to the deadline and decide what to do at that point.

5. Try to move Pat.

6. Don’t make any significant “win now” moves and treat this season as an experimental and developmental year to try to keep a reasonably good draft pick for next year in a strong draft.

7. After making that pick, put the pedal to the metal immediately and get as good as you can as fast as you can (which would be a mistake unless we clearly see some contending type talent emerging quickly).

Reading the tea leaves, this appears to be the basic plan for now.

Which I believe will turn into the Bulls playing .500 ball and a big trade at the deadline for a playoff push.

Which might make the most sense given the realities of the NBA and our impending cap space.

[League Circles]

I also think it's really silly to have a "plan". The team building rules are so constraining that it's best to just continuously analyze your situation and look at how all possible moves affect your 5 year outlook, and be ready to pivot at any moment to a variety of different rosters. I've never understood the notion that in order to win you need some grand narrative tale or vision to unfold over the course of years.

Fair point. AK strikes me more as tactician than strategist. Last offseason/season what about getting value for Zach and Caruso. IMO this season will be about putting Giddey and Matas in positions to improve, test Coby before writing a big check, and getting value from Vuc. I also think he wants to come away with at least one meaningful piece via trade of some of our expirings.

People act like the only way to have a plan is to know step by step exactly what you want to do. This is more wayfinding. You know the goal but there are many ways to get there and most things are out of your control so you have to adapt with circumstances. Injuries to your own players, rapid or slow player development, winning the lottery, gaining a pick because the Trailblazers improved, injuries to other players on other teams make them sellers at the deadline or buyers to replace the injured player, contract demands are steeper or lower than expected, somehow the Mavericks are willing to trade Luka....you have a plan within these unknowns but pivot as needed.

Yep, IMO people make it way more complicated than it is. IMO team building in the nba is pretty straightforward:

1. Continuously evaluate all possible roster moves at all times and project their impact on your roster for the next 5 seasons (no more, no less)
2. Remember that all you can really do at the end of the day is make contract offers to players and coaches, propose trades, and make the draft selections with the picks you have. That's literally it.
3. Remember that you can mostly only do those limited things during certain annual time windows.

[Am2626]

Do the Bulls have a purpose? Is there a plan? Who is the leader of this group? Does management have an agenda, or do they care about the team culture? Does anyone have an answer? I am confused.

Like the other NBA teams, the Bulls want to win games and championships and make a lot of money entertaining fans in that process.

Michael Reinsdorf is the leader of the organization.

AK is the leader of the basketball operations.

Billy Donovan leads the team as a coach.

Coby White is probably the biggest leader among the players.

What is confusing for you?

I would say winning championships is not a priority for this organization. If it happens they will take it but it’s about trying to maximize profits with a small market team mentality. Look at the below article. They already have said that they probably won’t be able to extend Coby White next year. They will never overpay for someone. Also if they aren’t going to extend him they don’t see him as a leader for their organization.

https://basketnews.com/news-228282-chicago-bulls-very-likely-to-lose-their-star-guard.html

[League Circles]

Do the Bulls have a purpose? Is there a plan? Who is the leader of this group? Does management have an agenda, or do they care about the team culture? Does anyone have an answer? I am confused.

Like the other NBA teams, the Bulls want to win games and championships and make a lot of money entertaining fans in that process.

Michael Reinsdorf is the leader of the organization.

AK is the leader of the basketball operations.

Billy Donovan leads the team as a coach.

Coby White is probably the biggest leader among the players.

What is confusing for you?

I would say winning championships is not a priority for this organization. If it happens they will take it but it’s about trying to maximize profits with a small market team mentality. Look at the below article. They already have said that they probably won’t be able to extend Coby White next year. They will never overpay for someone. Also if they aren’t going to extend him they don’t see him as a leader for their organization.

https://basketnews.com/news-228282-chicago-bulls-very-likely-to-lose-their-star-guard.html

Lol, that's BS on multiple levels.

Yes, the Bulls cannot EXTEND Coby, because the rules don't allow them to pay him what he's worth. They can only extend him for like 18 or 19 million a year IIRC. But they can certainly afford to RE-SIGN him.

And the Bulls have overpaid for many players for many years just like most teams do.

Whoever pretended to write that article needs to start over.

[Am2626]

I find it humorous that anyone thinks the Bulls don't want to win and/or are unaware how profitable that would likely be long term.

This isn't baseball. You can't buy a winner. Many of the teams that try to, with deep pockets, end up shooting themselves in the foot.

I think "making the playoffs" every year is an absolutely reasonable and wise goal. I don't think the org has done a good job of doing that, but only a child in a 30 team world class league would think that winning championships is a sensible primary goal.

The Miami Heat sure did when they signed both LeBron and Wade and the Lakers always don’t make excuses about spending to but them in position to win. Spending money alone won’t build a winner but spending money is always an asset if you have a competent FO and Ownership Group.

[Am2626]

Like the other NBA teams, the Bulls want to win games and championships and make a lot of money entertaining fans in that process.

Michael Reinsdorf is the leader of the organization.

AK is the leader of the basketball operations.

Billy Donovan leads the team as a coach.

Coby White is probably the biggest leader among the players.

What is confusing for you?

I would say winning championships is not a priority for this organization. If it happens they will take it but it’s about trying to maximize profits with a small market team mentality. Look at the below article. They already have said that they probably won’t be able to extend Coby White next year. They will never overpay for someone. Also if they aren’t going to extend him they don’t see him as a leader for their organization.

https://basketnews.com/news-228282-chicago-bulls-very-likely-to-lose-their-star-guard.html

Lol, that's BS on multiple levels.

Yes, the Bulls cannot EXTEND Coby, because the rules don't allow them to pay him what he's worth. They can only extend him for like 18 or 19 million a year IIRC. But they can certainly afford to RE-SIGN him.

And the Bulls have overpaid for many players for many years just like most teams do.

Whoever pretended to write that article needs to start over.

They quoted the Bulls Front Office as making that comment. Can’t they offer him the most money since they have his bird rights? Not saying that’s what they should do but they will never make a move that is punitive. They didn’t go into the tax when they actually had a contender.

[League Circles]

I find it humorous that anyone thinks the Bulls don't want to win and/or are unaware how profitable that would likely be long term.

This isn't baseball. You can't buy a winner. Many of the teams that try to, with deep pockets, end up shooting themselves in the foot.

I think "making the playoffs" every year is an absolutely reasonable and wise goal. I don't think the org has done a good job of doing that, but only a child in a 30 team world class league would think that winning championships is a sensible primary goal.

The Miami Heat sure did when they signed both LeBron and Wade and the Lakers always don’t make excuses about spending to but them in position to win. Spending money alone won’t build a winner but spending money is always an asset if you have a competent FO and Ownership Group.

Ummm, the Heat probably had one of the smallest payrolls in the league the first year with the "big 3". What matters is team payroll, not individual players.

Same was true of the Bulls that year. One of the lowest payrolls, despite having signed Boozer to a near max deal and others to significant deals. Hell, we almost certainly offered LBJ and Wade more than they eventually took with Miami, at least marginally.

Spending money can absolutely be a detriment to your team if you lock your team into the wrong guys. Again, this isn't baseball. There is a cap to manage, and teams cannot just decide to spend X dollars in a given year.

[League Circles]

I would say winning championships is not a priority for this organization. If it happens they will take it but it’s about trying to maximize profits with a small market team mentality. Look at the below article. They already have said that they probably won’t be able to extend Coby White next year. They will never overpay for someone. Also if they aren’t going to extend him they don’t see him as a leader for their organization.

https://basketnews.com/news-228282-chicago-bulls-very-likely-to-lose-their-star-guard.html

Lol, that's BS on multiple levels.

Yes, the Bulls cannot EXTEND Coby, because the rules don't allow them to pay him what he's worth. They can only extend him for like 18 or 19 million a year IIRC. But they can certainly afford to RE-SIGN him.

And the Bulls have overpaid for many players for many years just like most teams do.

Whoever pretended to write that article needs to start over.

They quoted the Bulls Front Office as making that comment. Can’t they offer him the most money since they have his bird rights? Not saying that’s what they should do but they will never make a move that is punitive. They didn’t go into the tax when they actually had a contender.

The quote is about a contract EXTENSION, which would be done prior to free agency next summer. You're talking about re-signing him to a new contract which is a different animal under the CBA. The Bulls absolutely do have his bird rights next summer and yes they can re-sign him to a max deal if they want. The executive is not talking about that, but whoever wrote the article isn't knowledgeable enough to understand the difference.

The Bulls absolutely did pay the luxury tax the ONLY time they were a contender and had the opportunity to do so, which was summer 2011.

[Dominator83]

Like the other NBA teams, the Bulls want to win games and championships and make a lot of money entertaining fans in that process.

Michael Reinsdorf is the leader of the organization.

AK is the leader of the basketball operations.

Billy Donovan leads the team as a coach.

Coby White is probably the biggest leader among the players.

What is confusing for you?

I would say winning championships is not a priority for this organization. If it happens they will take it but it’s about trying to maximize profits with a small market team mentality. Look at the below article. They already have said that they probably won’t be able to extend Coby White next year. They will never overpay for someone. Also if they aren’t going to extend him they don’t see him as a leader for their organization.

https://basketnews.com/news-228282-chicago-bulls-very-likely-to-lose-their-star-guard.html

Lol, that's BS on multiple levels.

Yes, the Bulls cannot EXTEND Coby, because the rules don't allow them to pay him what he's worth. They can only extend him for like 18 or 19 million a year IIRC. But they can certainly afford to RE-SIGN him.

And the Bulls have overpaid for many players for many years just like most teams do.

Whoever pretended to write that article needs to start over.

Yep. Look at Vuc and Patrick. Two guys they very clearly overpaid for, while bidding against nobody.

The part about ownership only caring about profits is less so about luxury tax, and more so about how it seems like as long as the profit wheel keeps turning, that poor basketball ops management isn't held accountable for their lack of success like some teams with more passionate owners that care more about winning might. AKME and Billy got extensions, despite having zero success over the last 5 years.

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

[MGB8]

With the Giddey saga, the Essengue pick, the original Kuminga interest before then, the Okoro trade and now the Coby discussion, it looks to me like the Bulls are not locked on Giddey at all - and instead are more hoping that Matas and Essengue form their forward tandem of the future, and that Coby is likely resigned to be the PG (not SG) next to a defensive wing. Giddey, rather than the focal point of the short term plan, is more of a “nice to have” rather than a presumed fixture - he would allow Matas and Essengue to develop more slowly, hedge against Coby failing at another go of being the guy running point.

[coldfish]

With the Giddey saga, the Essengue pick, the original Kuminga interest before then, the Okoro trade and now the Coby discussion, it looks to me like the Bulls are not locked on Giddey at all - and instead are more hoping that Matas and Essengue form their forward tandem of the future, and that Coby is likely resigned to be the PG (not SG) next to a defensive wing. Giddey, rather than the focal point of the short term plan, is more of a “nice to have” rather than a presumed fixture - he would allow Matas and Essengue to develop more slowly, hedge against Coby failing at another go of being the guy running point.

IMO, they are still smarting over several bad contracts they handed out to be nice. They thought that Lavine, Vucevic and Patrick would be tradeable and it turned out that they weren't. Now that Giddey got ZERO calls for a S&T, the Bulls know what he is asking for is well above what teams think he is worth.

I think they want Giddey but Giddey just wants a lot more than the market thinks he is worth and the restricted free agency process exposed that.

Overall, the Bulls want about 8 good switchable players at the PG-PF spots. Giddey is one of them. They really don't have many "good" players so its not like Giddey is crowding someone out.

[coldfish]

I’ll try to answer what I think they intend the current plan to be:

1. Resign Giddey, make him the primary ball-handler and playmaker and build a team that considers his strengths and weaknesses.

2. Hope Matas is a franchise player.

3. Develop Essengue as an important part of step 1 above.

4. Give Coby to the deadline and decide what to do at that point.

5. Try to move Pat.

6. Don’t make any significant “win now” moves and treat this season as an experimental and developmental year to try to keep a reasonably good draft pick for next year in a strong draft.

7. After making that pick, put the pedal to the metal immediately and get as good as you can as fast as you can (which would be a mistake unless we clearly see some contending type talent emerging quickly).

Reading the tea leaves, this appears to be the basic plan for now.

Good post.

I will say this. The Bulls seem to be stuck on a team concept more than just about any team I have seen. Most teams want a top talent and then want to build around them and aren't really stuck on what those players look like. The Bulls explicitly want this 4 athletic, switchable players around a C concept. They are acquiring players to fit into this. Maybe more now than ever. Essengue, Okuro and Kuminga all fit that mold.

They also are trying to stack up players coming into their prime. When you look at the team ages, they are loading up on players around 23 years old.

[Chi town]

With the Giddey saga, the Essengue pick, the original Kuminga interest before then, the Okoro trade and now the Coby discussion, it looks to me like the Bulls are not locked on Giddey at all - and instead are more hoping that Matas and Essengue form their forward tandem of the future, and that Coby is likely resigned to be the PG (not SG) next to a defensive wing. Giddey, rather than the focal point of the short term plan, is more of a “nice to have” rather than a presumed fixture - he would allow Matas and Essengue to develop more slowly, hedge against Coby failing at another go of being the guy running point.

It’s well documented that Coby sucks as a PG.

Giddey and Tre are way better PGs.

[MGB8]

With the Giddey saga, the Essengue pick, the original Kuminga interest before then, the Okoro trade and now the Coby discussion, it looks to me like the Bulls are not locked on Giddey at all - and instead are more hoping that Matas and Essengue form their forward tandem of the future, and that Coby is likely resigned to be the PG (not SG) next to a defensive wing. Giddey, rather than the focal point of the short term plan, is more of a “nice to have” rather than a presumed fixture - he would allow Matas and Essengue to develop more slowly, hedge against Coby failing at another go of being the guy running point.

It’s well documented that Coby sucks as a PG.

Giddey and Tre are way better PGs.

And yet, look at the roster w/out Giddey, if they had t accepted that lesson:

1: Coby, T.Jones
2 or 2-3: Okoro, Huerter, Ayo, Terry
3-4: Matas, Essengue, Pat, Phillips
5: Vuc, Collins, Smith

That is a group where you can easily play two of the 2/2-3, or 2 of the 3-4 (with one of the 2/2-3). It makes sense, is even easy to balance offense defense. Adding in Kuminga wouldn’t even mess things up too much.

I don’t think that they are dead set on moving on from Giddey; but the rest of the roster seems like it is quite ready to move on without him, and may make less sense with him.

[Drgaliza2]

Sign kai sotto.. yuki to kai sotto connection from the bench lets go!!

[dougthonus]

People act like the only way to have a plan is to know step by step exactly what you want to do. This is more wayfinding. You know the goal but there are many ways to get there and most things are out of your control so you have to adapt with circumstances. Injuries to your own players, rapid or slow player development, winning the lottery, gaining a pick because the Trailblazers improved, injuries to other players on other teams make them sellers at the deadline or buyers to replace the injured player, contract demands are steeper or lower than expected, somehow the Mavericks are willing to trade Luka....you have a plan within these unknowns but pivot as needed.

There is no clean way to go from bad to good in the NBA. That said, AKME have a few traits that I think they either need to change or will forever doom them to sub mediocrity:

1: They do not value draft capital properly or understand risk/reward decisions around it.

2: They are very short term thinkers. Ironic, because while people complain about the Bulls cheapness, one of the potential massive strengths of ownership is they would allow very long term thinking. There is no job where you could lay a foundation easier in the NBA than the Bulls where AKME got an extension for making the playoffs once in four years after a bunch of desperation win now trades.

3: They wait until they are 100% certain to make a decision, but by that time any chance of getting a good return is gone because the rest of the league is also certain.

4: They have generally used the "overpay" button as their way of getting a deal done, and it ends up biting them in the ass later because they are short on assets / space under the tax.

Lack of taking that Pelicans deal is a sign they are still stuck in the land of items #1 and #2. Coby/Ayo decisions over the next year should inform us more about #3. The Giddey negotiation shows they are at least being thoughtful about #4 now.

[dpucane]

Do the Bulls have a purpose? Is there a plan? Who is the leader of this group? Does management have an agenda, or do they care about the team culture? Does anyone have an answer? I am confused.

Like the other NBA teams, the Bulls want to win games and championships