Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[azwfan]

Bingo. Nobody else has a legal obligation to mitigate on behalf of Kuminga. Once he rejected the 5 year /$150 million offer, the Dubs weren't obligated to re-offer those same terms or anywhere near those terms. If he wants to bring suit against his own agent, then I'd say "Good luck with that." That's a losing he said / she said story that would only result in Kuminga being deemed a toxic asset by every other agent. He's dug himself a pit. The Nets were the only cavalry that could have come to Kuminga's rescue. And, they seem indifferent to his plight. The smartest move at this point is to accept the qualifying offer, play hard, pray he doesn't get hurt and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

I doubt Kerr plays him at all if he accepts the QO. Kerr may get organizational pressure to play him if he signs a trade-able contract.

If the club wanted serious issues with the players' union, then not playing Kuminga at all after he accepted the QO would be a very good way to go about it. If he signs the QO, you treat him fairly, hope that he redeems some of his value and be done with it. Nastiness need not be part of the equation.

Yeah, sounds good, but, Kerr already didnt play him for a period of time and Keer already said the reason was that “hes trying to win games”. Nd i believe the quote was, “if he comes back on a large contract, of course we wjll try to make it work” - but what if he doesnt. Better said, “why would Kuminga think Kerr would play him with no organizational oressure to do so. I mean Kerr barely played him WITH organizational pressure.

[Onus]

Sure, but we're not talking about your opinion. We're talking about what the league thinks. Most people I heard speak on that deal (Lowe, Simmons, Athletic crew) seem to think it's an ok deal, some think it's 'good value', but I haven't heard anyone say it was an overpay, or anything like that.

You’re arguing someone else’s pov while I’m arguing mine. You think naz is good value?

I do. Especially for Minny. Particularly after the kat trade and keeping Rudy.

I don't think it's great value, I think it's market value, which, in a rising cap environment, means it'll maintain value, barring regression or injury.

He's a particularly good fit on winning teams as his versatility to play small ball center is particularly valuable to contenders.

Coincidentally, I think JK is in desperate need of someone like Reid and it's a shame JK's injury happened before QP found his way up from Santa Cruz. Btw, I agree that post can be ~70% of naz next year.

I think the contract is bad to neutral. I'm not particularly high on him. Yes he can play some center but he doesn't really do anything centers do on defense like protect the rim, play defense or rebound. The best aspect he brings on defense is that he gives you a big body to put on jokic so rudy can roam. Honestly I'm not sure he's much better than John Collins who is seen as a negative contract at 26M. Obi Toppin at 14M now that's great value.

For JK specifically 25M is probably tradeable. We could probably make it work but would be tough to fill out the roster the way that we would want to. For the rumored trade with Sac I think his starting salary was around 23-24M. But that was the only real offer, so not sure that's enough of a market at that price. I don't see the warriors going above that, the compromise will likely be between 20-25M. But if he doesn't want to be here and makes a big enough issue about not being here maybe we settle for a S&T. I think Ayo and J Smith would be great depth and backup pieces to Melton and Horford. Hard caps us at the 1st apron but whatever.

Curry/Podz/Ayo
Melton/Buddy/Richard
JB/Moody
Dray/Smith/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD

That leaves us about 700k under the 1st apron. Maybe we add Key somewhere down the line.

[statsman]

I think Ayo and J Smith would be great depth and backup pieces to Melton and Horford. Hard caps us at the 1st apron but whatever.

Curry/Podz/Ayo
Melton/Buddy/Richard
JB/Moody
Dray/Smith/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD

That leaves us about 700k under the 1st apron. Maybe we add Key somewhere down the line.

Actually, I think that takes them over the 1st apron by about $334k. This assumes Horford with the entire TPMLE ($5.685). You can get under if you sub out TJD or Gui for Toohey. Yuck!

[Onus]

I think Ayo and J Smith would be great depth and backup pieces to Melton and Horford. Hard caps us at the 1st apron but whatever.

Curry/Podz/Ayo
Melton/Buddy/Richard
JB/Moody
Dray/Smith/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD

That leaves us about 700k under the 1st apron. Maybe we add Key somewhere down the line.

Actually, I think that takes them over the 1st apron by about $334k. This assumes Horford with the entire TPMLE ($5.685). You can get under if you sub out TJD or Gui for Toohey. Yuck!

I have the below numbers
59606817 Curry
54126450 Jimmy
25892857 Dray
11574075 Moody
9219512 Buddy
3687960 Podz
2221677 Gui
2221677 TJD
1955377 Post
9000000 J Smith
7500000 Ayo
5134000 horford (sportrac had this as the tpmle)
2087519 melton
1017781 Richard
195245702 Total
-699298 From 1st Apron

If we use the full 5.685 we're still under by 148,298

[statsman]

I think Ayo and J Smith would be great depth and backup pieces to Melton and Horford. Hard caps us at the 1st apron but whatever.

Curry/Podz/Ayo
Melton/Buddy/Richard
JB/Moody
Dray/Smith/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD

That leaves us about 700k under the 1st apron. Maybe we add Key somewhere down the line.

Actually, I think that takes them over the 1st apron by about $334k. This assumes Horford with the entire TPMLE ($5.685). You can get under if you sub out TJD or Gui for Toohey. Yuck!

I have the below numbers
59606817 Curry
54126450 Jimmy
25892857 Dray
11574075 Moody
9219512 Buddy
3687960 Podz
2221677 Gui
2221677 TJD
1955377 Post
9000000 J Smith
7500000 Ayo
5134000 horford (sportrac had this as the tpmle)
2087519 melton
1017781 Richard
195245702 Total
-699298 From 1st Apron

If we use the full 5.685 we're still under by 148,298

Ayo is $7,518,518. TPMLE is $5,685,000. 2+yr vet minimum is $2,296,271, Rookie minimum is $1,272,868. That's an additional $482k or so from your last quote, taking them over the 1st apron by $334k.

[EvanZ]

Great post here explaining everything:

https://substack.com/inbox/post/168921415

[EvanZ]

The thing about the QO is that if he takes it then he's losing probably $12M in that first year. So like think about it, if the Warriors offered $25M for 3 years with a PO in the 3rd season, and JK doesn't sign that because he wants $30M, and he takes the QO. That's a difference of $10M the first 2 years and $15M if he opts in the 3rd season (which means he sucked and won't get paid more on the open market). But if he signs the QO, he's down $17M in just the first year alone with a huge risk of injury or not playing or whatever. Hell even if the WArriors offer $20M, he should just hold his nose and take it.

It's like a landlord who refuses to rent their apartment for a penny under their asking price but will lose thousands of dollars every month they keep it vacant. In fact, my mom wanted to do this until my dad and I convinced her she was being an idiot and would end up losing a ton of money for her "pride".

[ChuckDurn]

The thing about the QO is that if he takes it then he's losing probably $12M in that first year. So like think about it, if the Warriors offered $25M for 3 years with a PO in the 3rd season, and JK doesn't sign that because he wants $30M, and he takes the QO. That's a difference of $10M the first 2 years and $15M if he opts in the 3rd season (which means he sucked and won't get paid more on the open market). But if he signs the QO, he's down $17M in just the first year alone with a huge risk of injury or not playing or whatever. Hell even if the WArriors offer $20M, he should just hold his nose and take it.

It's like a landlord who refuses to rent their apartment for a penny under their asking price but will lose thousands of dollars every month they keep it vacant. In fact, my mom wanted to do this until my dad and I convinced her she was being an idiot and would end up losing a ton of money for her "pride".

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

[xdrta+]

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

The problem with 1+1 from the Warriors' point of view is that, just like with the QO, JK would have veto power over a trade and his Bird rights would revert to the non-Bird exception, making him pretty much untradeable.

[cpower]

The thing about the QO is that if he takes it then he's losing probably $12M in that first year. So like think about it, if the Warriors offered $25M for 3 years with a PO in the 3rd season, and JK doesn't sign that because he wants $30M, and he takes the QO. That's a difference of $10M the first 2 years and $15M if he opts in the 3rd season (which means he sucked and won't get paid more on the open market). But if he signs the QO, he's down $17M in just the first year alone with a huge risk of injury or not playing or whatever. Hell even if the WArriors offer $20M, he should just hold his nose and take it.

It's like a landlord who refuses to rent their apartment for a penny under their asking price but will lose thousands of dollars every month they keep it vacant. In fact, my mom wanted to do this until my dad and I convinced her she was being an idiot and would end up losing a ton of money for her "pride".

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

not an option if this is not a SnT deal. We are not letting him come back to the locker room with anything higher than QO since there is no 20m market for him. I think he is just so dumb for asking for 20. He might end up playing in China

[ChuckDurn]

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

The problem with 1+1 from the Warriors' point of view is that, just like with the QO, JK would have veto power over a trade and his Bird rights would revert to the non-Bird exception, making him pretty much untradeable.

Yeah, even more reason why they should pay less on a 1+1. I think that’s basically an option of last resort for the team.

[ChuckDurn]

The thing about the QO is that if he takes it then he's losing probably $12M in that first year. So like think about it, if the Warriors offered $25M for 3 years with a PO in the 3rd season, and JK doesn't sign that because he wants $30M, and he takes the QO. That's a difference of $10M the first 2 years and $15M if he opts in the 3rd season (which means he sucked and won't get paid more on the open market). But if he signs the QO, he's down $17M in just the first year alone with a huge risk of injury or not playing or whatever. Hell even if the WArriors offer $20M, he should just hold his nose and take it.

It's like a landlord who refuses to rent their apartment for a penny under their asking price but will lose thousands of dollars every month they keep it vacant. In fact, my mom wanted to do this until my dad and I convinced her she was being an idiot and would end up losing a ton of money for her "pride".

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

not an option if this is not a SnT deal. We are not letting him come back to the locker room with anything higher than QO since there is no 20m market for him. I think he is just so dumb for asking for 20. He might end up playing in China

Wow, I didn’t realize you were in the locker room. What number do you wear?

[cpower]

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

not an option if this is not a SnT deal. We are not letting him come back to the locker room with anything higher than QO since there is no 20m market for him. I think he is just so dumb for asking for 20. He might end up playing in China

Wow, I didn’t realize you were in the locker room. What number do you wear?

sorry this is Steve kerr and I forgot to switch account

[EvanZ]

I think there is a consideration we aren't really making that is possible here.

Isn't it possible that Kuminga is ok with, say, the Kings offer of $20M but it's the Warriors that are playing hardball and won't do it? We are all assuming based on rumors upon rumors this or that. But I think it's worth considering this scenario where JK really doesn't have any agency here and is basically at the will of the Warriors demands. Just saying it's possible.

[EvanZ]

The thing about the QO is that if he takes it then he's losing probably $12M in that first year. So like think about it, if the Warriors offered $25M for 3 years with a PO in the 3rd season, and JK doesn't sign that because he wants $30M, and he takes the QO. That's a difference of $10M the first 2 years and $15M if he opts in the 3rd season (which means he sucked and won't get paid more on the open market). But if he signs the QO, he's down $17M in just the first year alone with a huge risk of injury or not playing or whatever. Hell even if the WArriors offer $20M, he should just hold his nose and take it.

It's like a landlord who refuses to rent their apartment for a penny under their asking price but will lose thousands of dollars every month they keep it vacant. In fact, my mom wanted to do this until my dad and I convinced her she was being an idiot and would end up losing a ton of money for her "pride".

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

not an option if this is not a SnT deal. We are not letting him come back to the locker room with anything higher than QO since there is no 20m market for him. I think he is just so dumb for asking for 20. He might end up playing in China

Do you not believe the Kings want to give him $20M? Or are you simply saying they can't do it without a S&T and that by "market" you are strictly referring to teams with cap space?

[EvanZ]

I've heard Kispert mentioned as if it's a last resort.

If I'm Mike Dunleavy I'd drive JK to the airport myself immediately to get Kispert. I can't imagine that he's being offered. He's an actually useful player, mroe useful than pretty much anyone that has been rumored to date.

[Nvnervous45]

I mean I think Grayson Allen and a 2nd rounder sounds like a decent return at this point.

[Nvnervous45]

I mean I think Grayson Allen and a 2nd rounder sounds like a decent return at this point.equal to kispert.

[Onus]

Yep.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this end up in 1 of 2 ways….. He re-signs on a 1+1 deal, ~$16M in year 1, $18M in year 2 (he can opt out); or he re-signs on a 2+1 deal, ~$18M in year 1, $20M in year 2, ~22M in year 3. He gets a little more money for agreeing to stay the one extra year.

In either case, he makes more money than just taking the QO, which would be silly. I’m sure the Warriors’ first choice would be the 2+1, where Kuminga might just want a 1+1.

not an option if this is not a SnT deal. We are not letting him come back to the locker room with anything higher than QO since there is no 20m market for him. I think he is just so dumb for asking for 20. He might end up playing in China

Do you not believe the Kings want to give him $20M? Or are you simply saying they can't do it without a S&T and that by "market" you are strictly referring to teams with cap space?

I do think the kings are willing to give him 20 but the warriors want compensation.

[Onus]

I've heard Kispert mentioned as if it's a last resort.

If I'm Mike Dunleavy I'd drive JK to the airport myself immediately to get Kispert. I can't imagine that he's being offered. He's an actually useful player, mroe useful than pretty much anyone that has been rumored to date.

If kispert is available just take him and let’s move on

Curry/buddy/kispert/post has to be one of the best shooting teams ever assembled. Add in dray and jimmy to handle the defense. I’d bring in Simmons as well.