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Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram

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Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#1 » by WuTang_OG » Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:45 pm

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2025/07/23/this-era-toronto-raptors-depends-massively-brandon-ingram/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

An innovative head coach of the Toronto Raptors is trying to win around the edges by hacking the possession game. The front office turns roster imbalance into a supposed strength, doubling down on length and strength and defensive structure while shrugging at the need for individual creation. The point guard is a shooting specialist who perhaps is limited at driving and creating for others, at least when compared to other starting point guards around the league. Positions 2-4 are versatile defenders yet limited when it comes to shooting. There is certainly no shooting from the center spot.

If this description reminds you of either the current Raptors, led by Brandon Ingram and Scottie Barnes, or the last era of the Raptors, led by Fred VanVleet and Pascal Siakam, you’re right. The Raptors are innovating backwards, in the big picture rebuilding the last iteration of the team. Not in the details, but certainly in the strengths and weaknesses.

If there is one lesson from Toronto’s 2025 Summer League performance, it is this: The youths of this team can win, and win big, through defence, but they still lack half-court creators. Just like the big club.

As a result, the wins looked dominant and the loss somewhat flat. Toronto’s offence just couldn’t punch hard enough without a few dozen chances in transition.

Just like the big club.


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Thus in many ways the entirety of the success of this team’s core rests on the shoulders of Brandon Ingram. From this perspective, he is bearing in many ways the same load as Siakam did before him. I am suspicious of whether Ingram can out-perform Siakam in the same role.

To be fair, he has been to the playoffs before. (Not including his awful 2023-24 performance which came on the heels of sitting out 12 consecutive games for injury, returning for the final regular-season game to play 20 minutes, then suiting up in the playoffs clearly not healthy for a sweep.) But in 2021-22, Ingram was spectacular. He scored 27 points a game without seeing a drop from his regular-season efficiency, all while averaging over a point per possessions on isolations, including ones that didn’t result in a shot, turnover, or assist. That has long been his strength; he’s averaged over a point per possession on all such possessions including isolations in the regular seasons of 2022-23, 2023-24, and 2024-25. His possessions on which he’s run a pick and roll have similarly averaged over a point per in the regular seasons of 2022-23 and 2023-24.

His initiation has been quite consistent and efficient in the regular season and in his one healthy stint in the playoffs. He’s used to playing alongside oodles of wings, as he will alongside Barnes, RJ Barrett, and others; in New Orleans, from 2021-22 all the way to 2024-25, Ingram had a higher net rating when alongside both of Herb Jones and Trey Murphy III (plus-6.5) than he did alongside either one individually, or without either. (In fact, the trio all on the court was better than any other permutation of the three.) With CJ McCollum on, the four were even better. Ingram should be ready for the lineup quirks (lots of wings all playing together without a traditional initiating point guard) waiting for him in Toronto.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#2 » by Psubs » Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:54 pm

It's like the 2019 team was highly dependent on the health of Kawhi's quad.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#3 » by JB7 » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:36 pm

I wouldn't say he is replacing the role of Siakam on the post-Kawhi Raps teams. BI's strength is his jump shot and ISO scoring, especially late in the clock. I wouldn't say that was Pascal's strength at all. Barnes kind of fills in the roles Pascal provided (rebounding/D, postups on O, pushing the ball in transition).
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#4 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:39 pm

Psubs wrote:It's like the 2019 team was highly dependent on the health of Kawhi's quad.


Except the ceiling of this team is a 1st round exit lol
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#5 » by Fairview4Life » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:44 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Psubs wrote:It's like the 2019 team was highly dependent on the health of Kawhi's quad.


Except the ceiling of this team is a 1st round exit lol


Ceiling doesn't mean most likely.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#6 » by Psubs » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:46 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Psubs wrote:It's like the 2019 team was highly dependent on the health of Kawhi's quad.


Except the ceiling of this team is a 1st round exit lol


Ceiling doesn't mean most likely.


I would say the ceiling is conference finals unless a Marc Gasol level trade is made to made this team a true contender. Right now they can make a run like Indiana.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#7 » by StopitLeo » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:52 pm

JB7 wrote:I wouldn't say he is replacing the role of Siakam on the post-Kawhi Raps teams. BI's strength is his jump shot and ISO scoring, especially late in the clock. I wouldn't say that was Pascal's strength at all. Barnes kind of fills in the roles Pascal provided (rebounding/D, postups on O, pushing the ball in transition).


I agree with you. Ingram's strengths are probably the weakest parts of Pascal's game. Where Ingram replaces Pascal is in terms of the talent hierarchy on the team. I would say he actually raises the talent level at the top of the roster since his scoring ability is something we have lacked since Kawhi.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#8 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jul 23, 2025 6:55 pm

Psubs wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Except the ceiling of this team is a 1st round exit lol


Ceiling doesn't mean most likely.


I would say the ceiling is conference finals unless a Marc Gasol level trade is made to made this team a true contender. Right now they can make a run like Indiana.


Ceiling means best case scenario. A competitive 1st round loss is the most id expect from this team (like the Pistons this past year).

Worst case scenario we have injuries to Poeltl/Ingram and this team is top 10 lottery bound.

Most likely is we are a play-in team that either makes it to get their asses kicked in the 1st round or doesnt make it at all.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#9 » by tsherkin » Wed Jul 23, 2025 7:24 pm

Depending on any improvement from our youth, I don't think anyone is expecting the roster in its present state to suddenly be a contender. There are other moves to make going forward. But as a starting point moving forward, it seems pretty solid to me, especially if the D maintains (and, of course, BI is healthy ish).
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#10 » by ciueli » Wed Jul 23, 2025 7:44 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Ceiling doesn't mean most likely.


I would say the ceiling is conference finals unless a Marc Gasol level trade is made to made this team a true contender. Right now they can make a run like Indiana.


Ceiling means best case scenario. A competitive 1st round loss is the most id expect from this team (like the Pistons this past year).

Worst case scenario we have injuries to Poeltl/Ingram and this team is top 10 lottery bound.

Most likely is we are a play-in team that either makes it to get their asses kicked in the 1st round or doesnt make it at all.


Not surprisingly there are still people on this board who don't realize how poorly balanced and top heavy this roster is. We're a Jak injury away from having a minimum contract player as our starting C, an Ingram injury away from being basically the same team as last season minus Kelly Olynyk, Bruce Brown, and Chris Boucher. Even healthy, every player in our starting 5 has flaws, too many mediocre defenders (IQ, RJ, Ingram), too many non or inconsistent 3 point shooters (RJ, Scottie, Jak), too few quality shot creators for others.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#11 » by causal_fan » Wed Jul 23, 2025 7:48 pm

If the Raptors are depending on BI for success - Good Luck with that!
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#12 » by JB7 » Wed Jul 23, 2025 7:56 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Ceiling doesn't mean most likely.


I would say the ceiling is conference finals unless a Marc Gasol level trade is made to made this team a true contender. Right now they can make a run like Indiana.


Ceiling means best case scenario. A competitive 1st round loss is the most id expect from this team (like the Pistons this past year).

Worst case scenario we have injuries to Poeltl/Ingram and this team is top 10 lottery bound.

Most likely is we are a play-in team that either makes it to get their asses kicked in the 1st round or doesnt make it at all.


Funny thing is, in the East, they could end up being a contender. Look at the Pacers last year.

With Haliburton and Tatum out for the year that eliminates Boston and Indiana from contention. Knicks are a Brunson injury away from being knocked out. Cavs proved yet again they are not legit in the playoffs. And who knows what the Magic will be?

The East is a complete crap shoot. I'm not saying the Raps are a contender, nor am I saying they are not. :wink:
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#13 » by tsherkin » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:01 pm

JB7 wrote:The East is a complete crap shoot. I'm not saying the Raps are a contender, nor am I saying they are not. :wink:


"Exiting the East" and "contention" aren't the same thing. But we won't do that either; we won't beat Cleveland. We wouldn't beat New York. We probably wouldn't beat Milwaukee. And there's a good chance that Detroit, Orlando and Atlanta would all give us hella problems.

But we should be a playoff team, and that'll be a nice change of pace from the past few seasons. And then we have something to build upon, which is important. We've got a shaky foundation, but we are also just trying to exit some rough years.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#14 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:02 pm

I like that BI wants to be here. He pushed to be here and he's saying all the right things. That's a good start.

He's exactly the type of player the Raps have needed for a long time and he'll push guys like Barnes, IQ, RJ down the pecking order which should put them in more suitable roles.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#15 » by Mikistan » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:04 pm

JB7 wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Psubs wrote:
I would say the ceiling is conference finals unless a Marc Gasol level trade is made to made this team a true contender. Right now they can make a run like Indiana.


Ceiling means best case scenario. A competitive 1st round loss is the most id expect from this team (like the Pistons this past year).

Worst case scenario we have injuries to Poeltl/Ingram and this team is top 10 lottery bound.

Most likely is we are a play-in team that either makes it to get their asses kicked in the 1st round or doesnt make it at all.


Funny thing is, in the East, they could end up being a contender. Look at the Pacers last year.

With Haliburton and Tatum out for the year that eliminates Boston and Indiana from contention. Knicks are a Brunson injury away from being knocked out. Cavs proved yet again they are not legit in the playoffs. And who knows what the Magic will be?

The East is a complete crap shoot. I'm not saying the Raps are a contender, nor am I saying they are not. :wink:

Cavs were injured in playoffs? But I don't disagree with the rest

It could be good could be bad but one thing we know, the refs will be bad
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#16 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:09 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#17 » by JB7 » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:11 pm

tsherkin wrote:
JB7 wrote:The East is a complete crap shoot. I'm not saying the Raps are a contender, nor am I saying they are not. :wink:


"Exiting the East" and "contention" aren't the same thing. But we won't do that either; we won't beat Cleveland. We wouldn't beat New York. We probably wouldn't beat Milwaukee. And there's a good chance that Detroit, Orlando and Atlanta would all give us hella problems.

But we should be a playoff team, and that'll be a nice change of pace from the past few seasons. And then we have something to build upon, which is important. We've got a shaky foundation, but we are also just trying to exit some rough years.


Hey, if you can make it to the show (Finals), you are a contender. Pacers almost upset OKC. Who would have thought that?

And this is more a statement on the ineptitude of the East, than of the Raptors ability.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#18 » by JB7 » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:16 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would think the only way they don't make the playoffs is if there is a significant injury or two (Yak, BI or Barnes).

And if that happens, they have their pick and can tank in another decent draft.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#19 » by tsherkin » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:17 pm

JB7 wrote:Hey, if you can make it to the show (Finals), you are a contender.


I mean, no, not really. Not if you have zero chance to win.

Meantime, as I said, we aren't exiting the East regardless.
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Re: Zatzman: This era of the Raptors depends massively on Brandon Ingram 

Post#20 » by niQ » Wed Jul 23, 2025 8:19 pm

Hmm. I think our team's success will depend on both Ingram and Poeltl's health. If those 2 are healthy, no excuse to not make the playoffs.

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