Paul George

[esqtvd]

Nah. Not gonna let yall dog Paul George like this.

He is who he is. He didn't ask for Doc Rivers and Co. to whore themselves out to Kawhi for a whole season. He didn't ask them to get a $50k tampering fine. He didn't tell them to give Kawhi all the leverage, such that Kawhi could force the Clippers to trade for him. He did no such thing.

And....
When our fearless leader tore his ACL, Paulie did step up and help us get to our first WCF.

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Blame those responsible. Uncle Dennis. Kawhi. Glenn, Steve....but dont be mad at Paul George for being who he always has been.

Was PG 100% to blame for 213's failure? Of course not, it was an organizational failure from top to bottom. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing otherwise.

You are giving him way too much of a pass, though. Even setting aside the trade that brought him here, he was paid a ton of money and touted as a superstar. He was a no-show in every important game, a turnover machine, always had an excuse or complaint for everything. He made the front office use roster spot after roster spot on his friends while never holding up his end of the bargain in return. He sat out an elimination game with vague "soreness" after making a big show of how he "never quits on his team." He trashed the organization and fanbase on his podcast after he left while still not taking any personal accountability for what went wrong.

At the end of the day, PG has left three teams in his career, not a single one of those fanbases misses him, and his current team is already wishing they could dump his contract. He is the common denominator.

It was never really the on-court stuff, even if he could be pretty inconsistent- some players are just like that. And all players start to break down over 30. Plus he had a great run in 2020/2021 that gave me hope for the rest of his Clipper tenure. He was even saying the right things at the time...

But outside of that run, it was always his mouth (and attitude) that was the big problem. Just no self-awareness at all, that could have gotten him over that hump.

LOL. PG is beloved nowhere. Not by the fans, by his coaches, not by his teammates. One of Ballmer's biggest flaws: He's a digital guy. Understands nothing about chemistry. And starting with the Fun Guy as the heart, it's no surprise 213 had no soul.

[MartinToVaught]

It was never really the on-court stuff, even if he could be pretty inconsistent- some players are just like that. And all players start to break down over 30. Plus he had a great run in 2020/2021 that gave me hope for the rest of his Clipper tenure. He was even saying the right things at the time...

But outside of that run, it was always his mouth (and attitude) that was the big problem. Just no self-awareness at all, that could have gotten him over that hump.

Can't speak for everyone, but the on-court stuff was every bit as frustrating to me as his mouth/attitude was. He'd have a hot streak of high-scoring games against the Hornets, Wizards, and Pistons and his fans would start strutting around acting like he was worth the trade. Then he'd look borderline unplayable for a few weeks while making excuses and begging in public for the front office to sign more of his friends (can't imagine why his teammates didn't like him). The regular season would just be that on a constant loop, then the playoffs would start and he'd turn into one of the worst players in the league overnight. PG was practically designed in a lab to be the hardest player to root for. And I say that as someone who desperately wanted it to work because the story of him growing up a Clippers fan was just that compelling. I still sometimes wish we drafted him in 2010 when he was begging us to, since at least we would have gotten his best years and not only a bunch of bitter memories.

[madmaxmedia]

It was never really the on-court stuff, even if he could be pretty inconsistent- some players are just like that. And all players start to break down over 30. Plus he had a great run in 2020/2021 that gave me hope for the rest of his Clipper tenure. He was even saying the right things at the time...

But outside of that run, it was always his mouth (and attitude) that was the big problem. Just no self-awareness at all, that could have gotten him over that hump.

Can't speak for everyone, but the on-court stuff was every bit as frustrating to me as his mouth/attitude was. He'd have a hot streak of high-scoring games against the Hornets, Wizards, and Pistons and his fans would start strutting around acting like he was worth the trade. Then he'd look borderline unplayable for a few weeks while making excuses and begging in public for the front office to sign more of his friends (can't imagine why his teammates didn't like him). The regular season would just be that on a constant loop, then the playoffs would start and he'd turn into one of the worst players in the league overnight. PG was practically designed in a lab to be the hardest player to root for. And I say that as someone who desperately wanted it to work because the story of him growing up a Clippers fan was just that compelling. I still sometimes wish we drafted him in 2010 when he was begging us to, since at least we would have gotten his best years and not only a bunch of bitter memories.

It was absolutely frustrating, although I try to keep it relative to his overall numbers which for the most part were fantastic as a Clipper. Especially in 2020- 23.3/6.6/5 on 47%/41%/87% shooting (not far off from his overall Clipper numbers.) If he could have cut out some of the bad games and kept the good, his numbers would have been otherworldly.

[og15]

It was never really the on-court stuff, even if he could be pretty inconsistent- some players are just like that. And all players start to break down over 30. Plus he had a great run in 2020/2021 that gave me hope for the rest of his Clipper tenure. He was even saying the right things at the time...

But outside of that run, it was always his mouth (and attitude) that was the big problem. Just no self-awareness at all, that could have gotten him over that hump.

Can't speak for everyone, but the on-court stuff was every bit as frustrating to me as his mouth/attitude was. He'd have a hot streak of high-scoring games against the Hornets, Wizards, and Pistons and his fans would start strutting around acting like he was worth the trade. Then he'd look borderline unplayable for a few weeks while making excuses and begging in public for the front office to sign more of his friends (can't imagine why his teammates didn't like him). The regular season would just be that on a constant loop, then the playoffs would start and he'd turn into one of the worst players in the league overnight. PG was practically designed in a lab to be the hardest player to root for. And I say that as someone who desperately wanted it to work because the story of him growing up a Clippers fan was just that compelling. I still sometimes wish we drafted him in 2010 when he was begging us to, since at least we would have gotten his best years and not only a bunch of bitter memories.

It was absolutely frustrating, although I try to keep it relative to his overall numbers which for the most part were fantastic as a Clipper. Especially in 2020- 23.3/6.6/5 on 47%/41%/87% shooting (not far off from his overall Clipper numbers.) If he could have cut out some of the bad games and kept the good, his numbers would have been otherworldly.

Paul George was never a tier 1 star player, he was always a tier 2 star player, who yes, could have tier 1 moments, but what seperates those levels of players is consistency at that top level.

If PG was more consistent he would be a tier 1 star, so while I get people saying this, it just doesn't logically work with the actual expectations and results you get from other tier 2 stars. Among his cohorts of tall star-ish level wings, PG was right in the average to above average level when it comes to things like ball security, etc that we find annoying.

Again, the problem seems to stem from people for some reason thinking he was a tier 1 player, he wasn't, and he was brought in to be Kawhi's sidekick not the lead guy.

Of course he never helps himself because he talks too much and then shoots himself in the foot, but what also happens is that his poor attributes get over exaggerated because people don't like him or are mad that SGA was traded for him as if it was his fault. It's like how Shaq hates Rudy Gobert because he makes $200+ million as if Rudy offered himself the contract or it is Rudy's fault that salaries are higher now than when Shaq played, and that GM's were willing to pay him.

If we just go by scoring for example in 23-24, PG had 27+ pts vs Okc, Lal, Den x 2, Nop, Ind, Orl, Pho. That's was 9/20 games in which is scored 27+, that's very good, but you ask our fans and the feeling would be that he sucked against all the good teams and destroyed the Blazers. Now of course, players best games are generally against poorer teams as those teams are poor for a reason, but that's different from never playing well against good comp.

[Quake Griffin]

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3 months and a $50,000 tampering fine later, we moved heaven and earth for this guy. He had already been criticized for turning in to a pumpkin in the playoffs the year prior.

Unbelievable.

Nah, PG came here and was exactly who he always was. Sure that's annoying....but our ire should be at those people who brought him here.

[MartinToVaught]

Paul George was never a tier 1 star player, he was always a tier 2 star player, who yes, could have tier 1 moments, but what seperates those levels of players is consistency at that top level.

If PG was more consistent he would be a tier 1 star, so while I get people saying this, it just doesn't logically work with the actual expectations and results you get from other tier 2 stars. Among his cohorts of tall star-ish level wings, PG was right in the average to above average level when it comes to things like ball security, etc that we find annoying.

Again, the problem seems to stem from people for some reason thinking he was a tier 1 player, he wasn't, and he was brought in to be Kawhi's sidekick not the lead guy.

Outside of his early years in Indiana, PG hasn't even been tier 3 in the playoffs, which is what actually matters, or even in the important statement games in the regular season. I don't think the problem is people having unreasonable expectations of him, the frustration is that he could only even meet his lower, more reasonable standards when it didn't matter. When the stakes were high or the chips were down, he'd start turning it over every possession, bricking off the side of the backboard, etc. Summing PG up as a tier 2 star sounds a lot nicer than the reality, where he was tier 2 against the Wizards and Hornets in January and a glorified role player the rest of the time.

The whole thing is just baffling when you think back to how he led the Pacers to those ECFs and went toe-to-toe with prime LeBron. It's like he had the exact inverse of the normal career arc a star is supposed to have. The longer his career went on, the less clutch/confident he became.

[MartinToVaught]

He had already been criticized for turning in to a pumpkin in the playoffs the year prior.

He really didn't. Media and neutral/casual fans put all the blame for that Utah series on Westbrook even though he showed up and PG and Melo were the ones choking. PG also would have escaped blame for the Portland series if he had just shut up and not made that dumb comment about Dame's game-winner being "a bad shot."

[Clemenza]

Paul George was never a tier 1 star player, he was always a tier 2 star player, who yes, could have tier 1 moments, but what seperates those levels of players is consistency at that top level.

If PG was more consistent he would be a tier 1 star, so while I get people saying this, it just doesn't logically work with the actual expectations and results you get from other tier 2 stars. Among his cohorts of tall star-ish level wings, PG was right in the average to above average level when it comes to things like ball security, etc that we find annoying.

Again, the problem seems to stem from people for some reason thinking he was a tier 1 player, he wasn't, and he was brought in to be Kawhi's sidekick not the lead guy.

Outside of his early years in Indiana, PG hasn't even been tier 3 in the playoffs, which is what actually matters, or even in the important statement games in the regular season. I don't think the problem is people having unreasonable expectations of him, the frustration is that he could only even meet his lower, more reasonable standards when it didn't matter. When the stakes were high or the chips were down, he'd start turning it over every possession, bricking off the side of the backboard, etc. Summing PG up as a tier 2 star sounds a lot nicer than the reality, where he was tier 2 against the Wizards and Hornets in January and a glorified role player the rest of the time.

The whole thing is just baffling when you think back to how he led the Pacers to those ECFs and went toe-to-toe with prime LeBron. It's like he had the exact inverse of the normal career arc a star is supposed to have. The longer his career went on, the less clutch/confident he became.

So we're going to ignore where he literally almost lost his leg when it snapped in half playing for Team USA? He was not the same guy after that. He's now a shell of his former self and it did take Prime Bron and the Heatles to take out Indy back then.

[og15]

Paul George was never a tier 1 star player, he was always a tier 2 star player, who yes, could have tier 1 moments, but what seperates those levels of players is consistency at that top level.

If PG was more consistent he would be a tier 1 star, so while I get people saying this, it just doesn't logically work with the actual expectations and results you get from other tier 2 stars. Among his cohorts of tall star-ish level wings, PG was right in the average to above average level when it comes to things like ball security, etc that we find annoying.

Again, the problem seems to stem from people for some reason thinking he was a tier 1 player, he wasn't, and he was brought in to be Kawhi's sidekick not the lead guy.

Outside of his early years in Indiana, PG hasn't even been tier 3 in the playoffs, which is what actually matters, or even in the important statement games in the regular season. I don't think the problem is people having unreasonable expectations of him, the frustration is that he could only even meet his lower, more reasonable standards when it didn't matter. When the stakes were high or the chips were down, he'd start turning it over every possession, bricking off the side of the backboard, etc. Summing PG up as a tier 2 star sounds a lot nicer than the reality, where he was tier 2 against the Wizards and Hornets in January and a glorified role player the rest of the time.

The whole thing is just baffling when you think back to how he led the Pacers to those ECFs and went toe-to-toe with prime LeBron. It's like he had the exact inverse of the normal career arc a star is supposed to have. The longer his career went on, the less clutch/confident he became.

"Outside of his early years in Indiana, PG hasn't even been tier 3 in the playoffs, which is what actually matters, or even in the important statement games in the regular season."

I can't agree with this, I think you're overrating what a tier 3 star is.

Tier 1 star players are top 10-ish guys, sometimes it can expand to 12 if the talent is really high, maybe some borderline ones up to 15. Tier 2 stars are top (13-15)-30 type guys, these are your second options if you're looking to be a finals/championship team, or first options if you are a 1st or second round team depending on the level in tier 2 that player is.

Tier 3 stars are your sometimes All-Star, sometimes not, guys like DeRozan for example. Paul George even in the playoffs has played right at a tier 2 star level with tier 1 moments. We're not simply talking about scoring, so it helps that he can impact not just from scoring, but through defense both man and team, rebounding, secondary playmaking and floor spacing.

I can't see the argument that he hasn't even been tier 3.