Offseason 2025 Thread

[yosemiteben]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

[MPM]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

The public dressing down by Terrence after Mark was embarrassed by Jonas V and pulled from the game will forever be burned into memory.

[Liver_Pooty]

I’m going to reserve judgment to see if we do anything before the season.

I definitely won’t miss Mark half assing through the first half but then have 10 pts and 7 rebounds the first 6 minutes of the third quarter though. **** was maddening.

[wilson115]

List of every 2025 FA big signed to new contracts so far: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/c

Which of these guys would have signed with us instead of the teams they ended up on? Turner? Kornet? Looney? How certain are we the Hornets FO wasn't chasing them?

On the other hand, which centers are worth spending assets to get in a trade? Which assets?

[MPM]

I’m going to reserve judgment to see if we do anything before the season.

A glimmer of hope here as well that we address front court before season open. Emotional procrastination in full effect.

[MPM]

List of every 2025 FA big signed to new contracts so far: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/c

Which of these guys would have signed with us instead of the teams they ended up on? Turner? Kornet? Looney? How certain are we the Hornets FO wasn't chasing them?

On the other hand, which centers are worth spending assets to get in a trade? Which assets?

Keep rolling this around as well. Guys who are more likely gettable are mostly depth pieces with their own offensive/defensive/athletic limitations but we kind of just need some bodies. Old Vooch? Limitations. Claxton makes sense even if less gettable and while he could prove out to be an expensive, but better (TBD) Moose with similar strengths/weaknesses, would much rather have swappable Meese than Moose and a Plum.

In terms of FA's, Thomas Bryant and Achiuwa still out there: https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/nba/free-agency/2025/07/15/2025-nba-free-agent-rankings-top-centers-available-this-summer/78341028007/

FWIW, when thinking of our front court, gettable guys in trade, etc., the following are our current, give or take, Eastern conference opposing centers:

Porzingis
Queta
Claxton
Vucevic/Smith
Jarrett Allen
Duren
Isaiah Jackson
Ware
Myles Turner
Towns
Wendell Carter
Embiid
Poeltl
Sarr

[Braggins]

Sorry if I was being a dick, but Mark is one of my guys and if people are going as far as to say hes not even valuable on offense I can't help but go Ichiro mode defending him.

[KembaWalker]

I feel like this team is constructed with the goal of being the first to hit 50 3pa per game

[Liver_Pooty]

Sorry if I was being a dick, but Mark is one of my guys and if people are going as far as to say hes not even valuable on offense I can't help but go Ichiro mode defending him.

I think we’ve all been there defending players we like. You’re a good man Charlie Brown.

[HornetJail]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

The public dressing down by Terrence after Mark was embarrassed by Jonas V and pulled from the game will forever be burned into memory.

If that game is burned into your memory, then you should remember that Mark went out and dropped 20/10 in the second half right after that... I'll be thrilled if any of 3 centers drop a 20/10 in an entire game next season.

I'm chalking up his shaky defense and lack of lower body strength this year to being on the shelf for basically an entire year due to his back. He looked better as the season went on, more and more like his rookie, and there was simply no reason not to give him the summer to prove himself next year.

We will be spending a bunch of resources over the next few years attempting to replace him.

[Liver_Pooty]

It might suck this season but it’s a moot point if Liam turns into the kind of player I personally think he can be.

Then again Mark may end up a monster. We shall see.

[MPM]

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

The public dressing down by Terrence after Mark was embarrassed by Jonas V and pulled from the game will forever be burned into memory.

If that game is burned into your memory, then you should remember that Mark went out and dropped 20/10 in the second half right after that... I'll be thrilled if any of 3 centers drop a 20/10 in an entire game next season.

I'm chalking up his shaky defense and lack of lower body strength this year to being on the shelf for basically an entire year due to his back. He looked better as the season went on, more and more like his rookie, and there was simply no reason not to give him the summer to prove himself next year.

We will be spending a bunch of resources over the next few years attempting to replace him.

Mark put up 23 points (7-12 FG), 14 rebounds, two assists, one steal, and one block in that game. Mark also ended the game with a defensive rating of 112.6. A game we lost at home to a Wizards team dead last in offense and defense. I remember it well.

There's a lot of if Mark, if Mark, if Mark, then Mark speculation here. I'm just not that guy. The team seemed determined to move him for some reason none of us know (specifically) but obviously deal breaker stuff. It's a weird thing - would definitely like to know the catalyst for why we gave up on someone who was a) young and b) proved he could put up counting stats - even if I'm OK with it.

EDIT - and FWIW, Moose dropped 21 PTS, 10 REB, 2 BLK, on 9-11 FG in 26 minutes in a Feb game last year. So, yes, I expect the odd 20/10 from our weird front court even if they won't likely be expected to carry as much offensive load as Mark with our 75 wing 3 point shooters.

[SWedd523]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

But I thought he was working himself into shape and the lack of production was to be expected because he didn't have an off-season to build back his strength?

Are we saying all of that doesn't count anymore?

[yosemiteben]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

But I thought he was working himself into shape and the lack of production was to be expected because he didn't have an off-season to build back his strength?

Are we saying all of that doesn't count anymore?

I've said it before but I'll say it again. When he came back and still needed a very thorough rest regime, I was worried but figured they were keeping him healthy for the deadline. When the deadline passed and he was still here and still needed load management, that was it for me.

The dude sat out a year and a half, came back, and still couldn't be relied upon to play consecutive games. I really like a lot about Mark, but that's too much for me.

[Bassman]

I believe they decided Mark would never become the defender he was/could have been. Why? My guess is he responded so poorly to rehab on his back. Either they thought he should have gotten better faster, or suspected he was afraid to reinsure his back which made him hesitant to press with effort, or friction from the above, or if there was a chronic issue that they knew/suspected….we may never know. I wanted to keep Mark this year, see what he could do with a full off-season and camp. If he stunk, we let him go or trade at the deadline. If he became great, clearly a stud, pay the man.

Instead they punted, traded him, got our pick. But trading both he and Nurkic had to mean they had some strategy to obtain a starting center…right? Maybe they were trying to deal for Turner and got outbid? Maybe they thought they could get Claxton? If so it clearly didn’t happen, they started scrambling for someone, and grabbed the Plumber from the clearance rack.

Or maybe they’re just this enamored with gorging on guards. Given they signed another one on a 2-way today instead of PJ Hall says a lot about their priorities.

[MasterIchiro]

Sorry if I was being a dick, but Mark is one of my guys and if people are going as far as to say hes not even valuable on offense I can't help but go Ichiro mode defending him.

Ichiro-mode is the path of the righteous.

[fatlever]

if/when mark either
a. starts launching 3s and making >30%
b. gets a mean streak
c. adds some serious strength to his base
all while staying healthy

thats when you know the hornets **** up. most realistic path is he finally shows us this rumored 3pt range. that would change things. otherwise, one-dimensional rim running bigs are overrated.

expanding... i like centers that
a. shot 3s and/or pass out of high post
- joker
- bam
- porz
- sengum
- sabonis
- turner
- lopez
- towns
b. impact the defense in a measurable way
- gobert
- wemby
- bam
- allen
- claxton
- jackson jr
- chet
c. are enforcers, set screens and bulldozer guys
- adams
- joker
- zubak
- edey
- hartenstein
- sabonis

mark does none of the things (at a high level) i find really valuable in a center. the rim running lobs, good hands, off rebounding, only get you so far.

[MasterIchiro]

I believe they decided Mark would never become the defender he was/could have been. Why? My guess is he responded so poorly to rehab on his back. Either they thought he should have gotten better faster, or suspected he was afraid to reinsure his back which made him hesitant to press with effort, or friction from the above, or if there was a chronic issue that they knew/suspected….we may never know. I wanted to keep Mark this year, see what he could do with a full off-season and camp. If he stunk, we let him go or trade at the deadline. If he became great, clearly a stud, pay the man.

Instead they punted, traded him, got our pick. But trading both he and Nurkic had to mean they had some strategy to obtain a starting center…right? Maybe they were trying to deal for Turner and got outbid? Maybe they thought they could get Claxton? If so it clearly didn’t happen, they started scrambling for someone, and grabbed the Plumber from the clearance rack.

Or maybe they’re just this enamored with gorging on guards. Given they signed another one on a 2-way today instead of PJ Hall says a lot about their priorities.

This is a perfectly natural question for any fan to ask of the front office in this situation, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Fans want to handle this new group with kid gloves. I see Plumlee and the gloves are coming off.

[JDR720]

You guys are saying the same exact things about Mark that you were about PJ right before he got traded and immediately went to the finals as a starter lol. Phoenix is a mess and I don't think there is any way that roster is going to function, so I certainly don't think that is going to happen for Mark next year, but the inability to tell when a player is phoning it in because the situation here is a dumpster fire (or whatever context) is pretty stunning.

Last year Mark was coming off a year and a half layoff from injury and played most of the season with a GLeague roster. I think the absolutist attitude that he is just some kind of worthless lazy loser and that is the full explanation for the season he had last year season is frankly embarrassing.

Like, he would have to be an idiot to be out there diving on every single loose ball and putting his body on the line every night so that maybe the Horncats could win 21 games instead of 19, rather than prioritizing health and development. Playing like that last season does make sense for someone like Diabate, who is an undrafted fringe roster guy trying to claw his way into the league. Trying to make a comparison of them without any of that nuance is useless. This year Mark would be playing for a new contract and for a team that is trying to win (presumably even if he was still on the Hornets).

I won't let him completely off the hook. Part of it was probably him just being a laid back guy who might not tend to go as hard if he isn't playing for anything, which isn't ideal, but its not some massive negative for a player. That was pretty much what was obviously going on with PJ here his last couple years and it was just as obvious he was going to be a valuable player if he was in a good situation.

I don't think that's the attitude though. Marks decline was because of his injuries. Whether Mark is good or not completely depends on whether he can be healthy and regain his defensive value he had his rookie year.

The team decided the answer was no and he was too risky to pay because of that.

[KembaWalker]

I think we're going to get punished all year down low and all the folks saying "we're not going to miss Mark" are enjoying some delusion-oil

In the games he actually played last year, he didn't keep us from getting punished down low.

But I thought he was working himself into shape and the lack of production was to be expected because he didn't have an off-season to build back his strength?

Are we saying all of that doesn't count anymore?

all that stuff they did last year was very obviously chronic injury management but nobody wanted to hear it at the time