Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[DAWill1128]

Does anyone think Kuminga will wait this out till near the October 1st deadline?

[azwfan]

Wait….. I thought you were Steve Kerr?

It wasn’t a “proposal” by my neighbor. It was him answering a question I posed him. And he’s a guy who, while he isn’t currently working in an NBA front office, has worked in them for over 10 years, including this season. His resume includes the title of “GM of an NBA team”. What does yours read?

Stop acting like you know sh— when you don’t. Everybody who is speaking here is offering their opinion. Even my neighbor’s answer is his opinion. Which is why I said “take it for what it’s worth”. But it’s a pretty credible, informed opinion.

sure any opinion counts, but you still did not answer the basic question of why keeping him and keep tanking his value and makes it impossible to trade down the line. nobody cares if he is Bob Myers or Nico Harrison if he can't explain the reason behind a deal.

Because "you know Steve Kerr will DNP him right?" is not the reality. Steve said it himself, he'll give the JK + core 3 a real look to start this season if JK is back. That's not how i would have phrased it, and you're free to not believe Steve. I often don't. That said, unless we're really trying to 'chase wins' AND are struggling to keep pace with 6 other teams in the west AND JK is the reason for that, he won't lose too many minutes. Is it possible he'll get DNP-CDs for many of his 50 games? sure. I'll take the under on 5 DNP-CDs before the deadline.

The alternate reality is he plays as a part-time starter when jimmy, dray, or steph sit (probably like a combined 30 games, if we're really lucky) and a 6th man for the rest of the games. Maybe a 7th man, if he struggles. In that quite likely scenario, he may be just what we need. If not, he may fetch us a real player at the deadline.

Instead, you're saying, let's just burn all those bridges/possibilities now and make him play on the QO. Other than pisssing off JK, most of the league, the players union, and losing the asset next summer, what do we actually gain from this? Oh, and he gets to veto trades this season if he's on the QO. Is that all just to save 12M to chase whoever is left for the NTMLE? or to just give horford more money?

Its very possible im misremembering and can verify here and now that im lazy to look 1-2 minutes for the exact quote, but pretty sure he said something to the effect of, “we’ll try to make it work if hes back on a big contract”. So is 20M annually big? Its larger than average - but big? Not sure. If larger than average is big… <insert inappropriate joke here>.

[statsman]

One key date to look out for is 8/29. That’s the deadline to stretch and waive players. We’ll see if any teams make a move to clear out cap space by then.

It used to be 8/31. I guess that's yet another change due to the 2023 CBA?

[vvoland]

If I remember, our contract talks with people we brought back recently (moody, dray, Iggy, JP3) were late in the negotiating window. Yes, moody and JP3 were extended a year early but it was late in the summer, iirc.

We made dray and Iggy find offers elsewhere so I can't imagine we'll just hand money over to JK. Wasn't lacob thinking of asking Steph for a discount on the extension before Bob threw himself in front of that train?

[xdrta+]

One key date to look out for is 8/29. That’s the deadline to stretch and waive players. We’ll see if any teams make a move to clear out cap space by then.

It used to be 8/31. I guess that's yet another change due to the 2023 CBA?

It hasn't changed, it's still Aug 31. Not sure where 29 came from. Aug 31 is a Sunday this year, but that makes no difference, the language in the CBA is: "...in the event the Team so elects [to stretch the cap] during the period from July 1 through August 31 of a Salary Cap Year"... and goes on to explain stretching.

EDIT: I see where the 29 may have come from. The player must clear waivers by Aug 31, so he would have to be put on waivers 48 hours before, but the team still has until the 31st to notify the league that they are stretching the cap hit.

[cpower]

Wait….. I thought you were Steve Kerr?

It wasn’t a “proposal” by my neighbor. It was him answering a question I posed him. And he’s a guy who, while he isn’t currently working in an NBA front office, has worked in them for over 10 years, including this season. His resume includes the title of “GM of an NBA team”. What does yours read?

Stop acting like you know sh— when you don’t. Everybody who is speaking here is offering their opinion. Even my neighbor’s answer is his opinion. Which is why I said “take it for what it’s worth”. But it’s a pretty credible, informed opinion.

sure any opinion counts, but you still did not answer the basic question of why keeping him and keep tanking his value and makes it impossible to trade down the line. nobody cares if he is Bob Myers or Nico Harrison if he can't explain the reason behind a deal.

Because "you know Steve Kerr will DNP him right?" is not the reality. Steve said it himself, he'll give the JK + core 3 a real look to start this season if JK is back. That's not how i would have phrased it, and you're free to not believe Steve. I often don't. That said, unless we're really trying to 'chase wins' AND are struggling to keep pace with 6 other teams in the west AND JK is the reason for that, he won't lose too many minutes. Is it possible he'll get DNP-CDs for many of his 50 games? sure. I'll take the under on 5 DNP-CDs before the deadline.

The alternate reality is he plays as a part-time starter when jimmy, dray, or steph sit (probably like a combined 30 games, if we're really lucky) and a 6th man for the rest of the games. Maybe a 7th man, if he struggles. In that quite likely scenario, he may be just what we need. If not, he may fetch us a real player at the deadline.

Instead, you're saying, let's just burn all those bridges/possibilities now and make him play on the QO. Other than pisssing off JK, most of the league, the players union, and losing the asset next summer, what do we actually gain from this? Oh, and he gets to veto trades this season if he's on the QO. Is that all just to save 12M to chase whoever is left for the NTMLE? or to just give horford more money?

you know Steve Kerr gives up on that lineup way back...you also know JK does not want to be here as he just wants to score and do nothing else....is warriors just doing this to save face? come one now.... do you ever see a player that hates to play for a team that ended up helping the team to win a championship?

[bay2hk]

One key date to look out for is 8/29. That’s the deadline to stretch and waive players. We’ll see if any teams make a move to clear out cap space by then.

It used to be 8/31. I guess that's yet another change due to the 2023 CBA?

It hasn't changed, it's still Aug 31. Not sure where 29 came from. Aug 31 is a Sunday this year, but that makes no difference, the language in the CBA is: "...in the event the Team so elects [to stretch the cap] during the period from July 1 through August 31 of a Salary Cap Year"... and goes on to explain stretching.

Must clear waivers by 8/31; hence, waive date on 8/29.

[xdrta+]

It used to be 8/31. I guess that's yet another change due to the 2023 CBA?

It hasn't changed, it's still Aug 31. Not sure where 29 came from. Aug 31 is a Sunday this year, but that makes no difference, the language in the CBA is: "...in the event the Team so elects [to stretch the cap] during the period from July 1 through August 31 of a Salary Cap Year"... and goes on to explain stretching.

Must clear waivers by 8/31; hence, waive date on 8/29.

Yeah, I added that above before I saw yours, but they still have until 8/31 to stretch the cap hit. Any buyout isn't removed from the cap until they clear waivers.

[vvoland]

sure any opinion counts, but you still did not answer the basic question of why keeping him and keep tanking his value and makes it impossible to trade down the line. nobody cares if he is Bob Myers or Nico Harrison if he can't explain the reason behind a deal.

Because "you know Steve Kerr will DNP him right?" is not the reality. Steve said it himself, he'll give the JK + core 3 a real look to start this season if JK is back. That's not how i would have phrased it, and you're free to not believe Steve. I often don't. That said, unless we're really trying to 'chase wins' AND are struggling to keep pace with 6 other teams in the west AND JK is the reason for that, he won't lose too many minutes. Is it possible he'll get DNP-CDs for many of his 50 games? sure. I'll take the under on 5 DNP-CDs before the deadline.

The alternate reality is he plays as a part-time starter when jimmy, dray, or steph sit (probably like a combined 30 games, if we're really lucky) and a 6th man for the rest of the games. Maybe a 7th man, if he struggles. In that quite likely scenario, he may be just what we need. If not, he may fetch us a real player at the deadline.

Instead, you're saying, let's just burn all those bridges/possibilities now and make him play on the QO. Other than pisssing off JK, most of the league, the players union, and losing the asset next summer, what do we actually gain from this? Oh, and he gets to veto trades this season if he's on the QO. Is that all just to save 12M to chase whoever is left for the NTMLE? or to just give horford more money?

you know Steve Kerr gives up on that lineup way back...you also know JK does not want to be here as he just wants to score and do nothing else....is warriors just doing this to save face? come one now.... do you ever see a player that hates to play for a team that ended up helping the team to win a championship?

Steve may very well give up on that lineup quickly, even if it plays well but the team has bad losses. Or, if they win at a high clip, stick with it longer than any of us would like if that lineup doesn't actually gel. Who the F knows?

What I actually do know, is forcing him to sign the QO would be a nightmare for us, for him, in the locker room, and on the court. That's before we get to the fact that he would have a real say over where he's traded and would be certain to leave for nothing next summer. Just a bad idea all around. No offense.

Had we hard capped ourselves at the 1st by using the full NTMLE on our first choice (e.g. NAW) AND no one else decided to offer JK a contract he wanted to sign, despite us being handcuffed, AND HE preferred to come back on the QO? Sure. What you're suggesting has a chance to be worse than the JP3 season, post-punch.

[cpower]

Because "you know Steve Kerr will DNP him right?" is not the reality. Steve said it himself, he'll give the JK + core 3 a real look to start this season if JK is back. That's not how i would have phrased it, and you're free to not believe Steve. I often don't. That said, unless we're really trying to 'chase wins' AND are struggling to keep pace with 6 other teams in the west AND JK is the reason for that, he won't lose too many minutes. Is it possible he'll get DNP-CDs for many of his 50 games? sure. I'll take the under on 5 DNP-CDs before the deadline.

The alternate reality is he plays as a part-time starter when jimmy, dray, or steph sit (probably like a combined 30 games, if we're really lucky) and a 6th man for the rest of the games. Maybe a 7th man, if he struggles. In that quite likely scenario, he may be just what we need. If not, he may fetch us a real player at the deadline.

Instead, you're saying, let's just burn all those bridges/possibilities now and make him play on the QO. Other than pisssing off JK, most of the league, the players union, and losing the asset next summer, what do we actually gain from this? Oh, and he gets to veto trades this season if he's on the QO. Is that all just to save 12M to chase whoever is left for the NTMLE? or to just give horford more money?

you know Steve Kerr gives up on that lineup way back...you also know JK does not want to be here as he just wants to score and do nothing else....is warriors just doing this to save face? come one now.... do you ever see a player that hates to play for a team that ended up helping the team to win a championship?

Steve may very well give up on that lineup quickly, even if it plays well but the team has bad losses. Or, if they win at a high clip, stick with it longer than any of us would like if that lineup doesn't actually gel. Who the F knows?

What I actually do know, is forcing him to sign the QO would be a nightmare for us, for him, in the locker room, and on the court. That's before we get to the fact that he would have a real say over where he's traded and would be certain to leave for nothing next summer. Just a bad idea all around. No offense.

Had we hard capped ourselves at the 1st by using the full NTMLE on our first choice (e.g. NAW) AND no one else decided to offer JK a contract he wanted to sign, despite us being handcuffed, AND HE preferred to come back on the QO? Sure. What you're suggesting has a chance to be worse than the JP3 season, post-punch.

to be honest, nobody cares about JK.. he will be out of the league faster than you may realize.. he is like the 100th best player in the league, luka getting traded, dame getting trashed, KD changing team faster than we switch jobs...at the end of the day we overate our own assets way too much and it is not going to end well either way.

[azwfan]

you know Steve Kerr gives up on that lineup way back...you also know JK does not want to be here as he just wants to score and do nothing else....is warriors just doing this to save face? come one now.... do you ever see a player that hates to play for a team that ended up helping the team to win a championship?

Steve may very well give up on that lineup quickly, even if it plays well but the team has bad losses. Or, if they win at a high clip, stick with it longer than any of us would like if that lineup doesn't actually gel. Who the F knows?

What I actually do know, is forcing him to sign the QO would be a nightmare for us, for him, in the locker room, and on the court. That's before we get to the fact that he would have a real say over where he's traded and would be certain to leave for nothing next summer. Just a bad idea all around. No offense.

Had we hard capped ourselves at the 1st by using the full NTMLE on our first choice (e.g. NAW) AND no one else decided to offer JK a contract he wanted to sign, despite us being handcuffed, AND HE preferred to come back on the QO? Sure. What you're suggesting has a chance to be worse than the JP3 season, post-punch.

to be honest, nobody cares about JK.. he will be out of the league faster than you may realize.. he is like the 100th best player in the league, luka getting traded, dame getting trashed, KD changing team faster than we switch jobs...at the end of the day we overate our own assets way too much and it is not going to end well either way.

100 best player is pretty valuable. There are 30 teams. Thats a starter.

[cpower]

Steve may very well give up on that lineup quickly, even if it plays well but the team has bad losses. Or, if they win at a high clip, stick with it longer than any of us would like if that lineup doesn't actually gel. Who the F knows?

What I actually do know, is forcing him to sign the QO would be a nightmare for us, for him, in the locker room, and on the court. That's before we get to the fact that he would have a real say over where he's traded and would be certain to leave for nothing next summer. Just a bad idea all around. No offense.

Had we hard capped ourselves at the 1st by using the full NTMLE on our first choice (e.g. NAW) AND no one else decided to offer JK a contract he wanted to sign, despite us being handcuffed, AND HE preferred to come back on the QO? Sure. What you're suggesting has a chance to be worse than the JP3 season, post-punch.

to be honest, nobody cares about JK.. he will be out of the league faster than you may realize.. he is like the 100th best player in the league, luka getting traded, dame getting trashed, KD changing team faster than we switch jobs...at the end of the day we overate our own assets way too much and it is not going to end well either way.

100 best player is pretty valuable. There are 30 teams. Thats a starter.

sure - however, nobody wants to pay 25M for their 5th best player though, look at OKC, IND, MIN, DEN, you want to find cheap value contract to round off your closing rotation. JK is 6th man at the best so no wonder we are not paying.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Read on Twitter

Sounds like an agent getting unhinged after losing alot of money betting on his clients basketball games.

His only other client besides kuminga is......



Rozier.

[marthafokker]

JK has no rush to sign.... unless he gets bonus pay for every DNP-CD. And every game with less than 25 minutes not injuries related.

I can see JK waiting for the QO to be rescinded. Then sign whatever he can get on a team that wants him.

[Nvnervous45]

Why would we rescind the QO? ?

[marthafokker]

Why would we rescind the QO? ?

No FA can sign until JK is traded/signed, Dubs wants to be able to match before signing any FA. And he isn't going to help with the trade unless he gets the pay he wants. So it is going to be a stalemate until JK agrees on something... so JK will keep F'ing everything up.... or Dubs calls it quit for nothing. Otherwise, the handshake deals will disappear if this goes on further. So no JK and no Al, Melton, or anyone else needing a job soon.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Kuminga just taking the qo offer doesnt help anyone.

This doesnt look like it's going to end amicably.

Imo, best course of action for both parties is to sign a 2+1 extension, maybe 3/60-75 then look to use him as the contract to trade at the deadline

Assuming this is the path, mjd will look for a fit + a contract that coincides with steph, jimmy, and dray. So essentially 2 years max left on a deal.

So leaves us with with 10 players that are between 20-30M per year with 2 years left on their deals:

Hartenstein
Wiggins
RJ Barrett
VanFleet
Derozan
D.Hunter
Kuzma
D.Brooks
KCP
C.Johnson

Of those 10, only van Fleet is poor positional fit.
Mjd wants players who can defend. So, now Barrett, derozan, kuzma, and Johnson are out.

Now we are down to 5.
I'd love him, but no way does hartenstein get moved.

Now to 4.
Wiggins, hunter, brooks, and kcp fill an absolute need for us. A wing who can switch and shoot the 3 ball.

Who would take kuminga?
Suns for sure. Maybe the Heat? Maybe the Grizz? Definitely not the Cavs.

Now down to 3. Wiggins, Brooks, and kcp.

If mjd thinks he can get one of these 3 for kuminga at the dealine, I think both sides can come out smelling like roses. Kuminga gets paid, and steph gets some veteran help.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

Kuminga just taking the qo offer doesnt help anyone.

This doesnt look like it's going to end amicably.

Imo, best course of action for both parties is to sign a 2+1 extension, maybe 3/60-75 then look to use him as the contract to trade at the deadline

Assuming this is the path, mjd will look for a fit + a contract that coincides with steph, jimmy, and dray. So essentially 2 years max left on a deal.

So leaves us with with 10 players that are between 20-30M per year with 2 years left on their deals:

Hartenstein
Wiggins
RJ Barrett
VanFleet
Derozan
D.Hunter
Kuzma
D.Brooks
KCP
C.Johnson

Of those 10, only van Fleet is poor positional fit.
Mjd wants players who can defend. So, now Barrett, derozan, kuzma, and Johnson are out.

Now we are down to 5.
I'd love him, but no way does hartenstein get moved.

Now to 4.
Wiggins, hunter, brooks, and kcp fill an absolute need for us. A wing who can switch and shoot the 3 ball.

Who would take kuminga?
Suns for sure. Maybe the Heat? Maybe the Grizz? Definitely not the Cavs.

Now down to 3. Wiggins, Brooks, and kcp.

If mjd thinks he can get one of these 3 for kuminga at the dealine, I think both sides can come out smelling like roses. Kuminga gets paid, and steph gets some veteran help.

If we were to remain paralyzed for the whole free agency process, go through all this drama, and the end result was trading Kuminga for Dillon Brooks in October, I would definitely not say we would smell like roses. Ditto with KCP. We'd smell like something, for sure.

[statsman]

Why would we rescind the QO? ?

No FA can sign until JK is traded/signed, Dubs wants to be able to match before signing any FA.

What the Warriors can't do right now is use the TPMLE before the Kuminga situation is resolved, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. They can sign all the vet minimums they want right now without limiting their ability to match any surprise RFA offer sheet, the latter of which seems increasingly remote.

Another reason to not sign anyone is if MDJ has one or more trades lined up that may fill in the roster. Also, odd as it may seem at the moment, the Warriors are considered a non-tax team. The trade rules and available exceptions change as soon as the Warriors exceed the 1st apron.

[Onus]

I really don't think selling low has the same math as keeping him through the deadline at a contract in the low 20s. Is the devin carter or kispert option really going away in the first 45 games of next season? I doubt it. Barring injury or regression, of course. But same could be said for Kispert and Carter - they could get hurt or suck. Now, if we're getting a guy we're confident would close games for us, let's ship out JK today.

I think Kispert would close for us. A Curry/Kispert/Jimmy/Dray lineup gives us a lot of versatility.

I don't think Ayo or Smith play much, outside of injury. JK, almost certainly, would. Not as much as he'd like but unless we're in another race to escape the play-in, I think JK gets 6th man minutes (25+) this season.

I mean everyone is pretty much in agreement that Melton is likely to get hurt. Horford is old and will sit out plenty of games. Ayo and J Smith would be great pieces to give us depth behind those 2.

I fully believe in that 23-7 record to end the season and, barring injury, I don't think the dubs are in a fight for the 6th seed. Sure, Curry gets hurt and it's curtains but in virtually any other scenario, I think we're in the top 5, fairly safely. If that's the case, we have plenty of time of figure out if JK is the bench scorer, a starter next to the core 3, an empty calorie scorer for the deadline, or a mistake. I think the chances of getting burned by that last option are the smallest of the bunch.

Thinking back on that 23-7 record, it took a lot of curry heroics to get there with some jimmy heroics thrown in as well. Then once JK got added things kind of fell off. I do think with Horford and Melton we would be better as those are upgrades, but how many games will Melton and Horford be available?

I don't think any team was truly safe in the west outside of the Thunder. Lakers/Denver/Clippers were all just 1 game out of the play in. Unless you think we're going to be as good as the thunder then no there's not going to be plenty of time to figure out what JK's role is going to be. Especially since the Rockets, Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers also all got better as well. We don't want to have a mad dash down the stretch of the regular season to avoid the play ins again.