Trades and Transactions 2025 IV

[3toheadmelo]

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i'll start the appreciation thread

[Adelheid]

i feel that what they do with Mikal, can make or break the team moving forward, far more than their coaching choice

[BKlutch]

Hmm JVG, really respect you as a mod and the hard work you do to keep this forum running, but I must admit, I'm a bit stuck here, given the power disparity between us. If I am derailing, then I would almost certainly prefer a warning than a post like this. The reason I say this is because if any other poster used inflaming words like "agenda" or "rabbit hole," which I am kind of construing to mean something like "your argument has no merit" then I'd feel like there is no value to that post -- it's only kind of there to bait me, more than engage with ctorres. Those are the same words used to describe certain people and their beliefs in current political debates, after all.

That said, ctorres kind of hits the nail on the head with maybe the difference between our beliefs about Clarkson. "I am giving grace..." That's basically where our differences lie. I don't like giving grace to a certain type of player and I feel strongly about the type of player that is required to bring this team to the next level. However, one thing I appreciate about ctorres is that his post does acknowledge validity in my view. But maybe he's right, and I'll be eating crow.

Moreover, given the topic that we're discussing (players that impact the team culture), I don't think I'm off-base. We have seen guys with similar weaknesses (offense only, selfish play) derail the team culture and cause drama, with the most recent being the guy responsible for Hamsterdam and Evan Fournier, who was a lot more efficient than Clarkson. Ben Simmons, with his weaknesses, is not that type of guy. He might have his own things to work through, but I don't worry about him destroying the culture like that. Maybe I could have put it that way, but yes, if we're worried about the culture, Ben Simmons is not the guy to worry about.

I’m not a fan of Ben Simmons but your thoughtful post has given me reason to reply. When he was in Brooklyn he suffered two maladies: a bad back and a psychological one. This latter one was greatly provoked and exacerbated by the hateful attitude of the owner’s wife, Clara Tsai, as she constantly demeaned, belittled, and threatened Ben. She e en told their GM, Sean Marks, to trade Ben straight up for Bol Bol, an actual impossibility due to their mismatched salaries.

When he recovered physically, he improved enough to contribute to his new club. He even improved his foul shooting. While I haven’t personally decided whom I prefer most for our last roster spots, I certainly am no longer as adamantly opposed to Ben as I would have been 2 years ago.

In any event, his position isn’t likely to involve enough playing time to make his contribution critical to the outcome of many games. So if he’s signed, I’ll root for him to do his best for the sake of our team. And if he does better than expected, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Do you have a source for Clara Tsai and that story? I haven't heard that before. I don't like the Tsais for personal reasons, but that seems pretty bad.

As for Simmons, I do think KAT/Yabu is a really good fit for him in terms of pairings. Mitch not so much. But even him being a good passer at the forward spot is something we're really missing. Brunson is really missing guys he can pass off to, whenever he gets doubled.

Then again, I might be making too much up about Simmons. He still has glaring offensive weaknesses and he's afraid of shooting sometimes, and it makes the fit awkward. Mike Brown would really have to work the bench perfectly. I don't like his fit with Hart or Mitch, and the playoffs...who knows how people will pick on his unwillingness to shoot.

My source is an attorney who has a (professional) relationship with an employee of the team. He is a former Nets fan, now a Knicks fan, who listens to Mr Whammy’s (Bruce Reznick’s) podcast daily. Lots gets discussed on the pod, too.

[ZeroStatic2]

Some rumblings are that If nothing happens with Giannis, knicks and Lakers are going to hook up and try to do something crazy like KAT, Bridges,Deuce and another player for Lebron, Austin Reeves, and Rui Hachimura.

[KnixinSix]

Some rumblings are that If nothing happens with Giannis, knicks and Lakers are going to hook up and try to do something crazy like KAT, Bridges,Deuce and another player for Lebron, Austin Reeves, and Rui Hachimura.

KAT with 3 year cost control is not going for a 40 year old Lebron on an expiring contract

[Jeff Van Gully]

Clarkson was a winner in Utah his first 3 seasons, one of which he went to the Western Semis. This was at age 27 to 29 too. His numbers for the Jazz in the playoffs were 17.3 ppg on 45/35/94 shooting splits.

I am giving him grace for the last 3 seasons because Ainge has done everything he could to force the Jazz to lose games.

I think Clarkson might shock us with how good he is and we might debate whether he should actually start.

this has been their agenda since the signing. you don’t have to go down the rabbit hole.

Hmm JVG, really respect you as a mod and the hard work you do to keep this forum running, but I must admit, I'm a bit stuck here, given the power disparity between us. If I am derailing, then I would almost certainly prefer a warning than a post like this. The reason I say this is because if any other poster used inflaming words like "agenda" or "rabbit hole," which I am kind of construing to mean something like "your argument has no merit" then I'd feel like there is no value to that post -- it's only kind of there to bait me, more than engage with ctorres. Those are the same words used to describe certain people and their beliefs in current political debates, after all.

That said, ctorres kind of hits the nail on the head with maybe the difference between our beliefs about Clarkson. "I am giving grace..." That's basically where our differences lie. I don't like giving grace to a certain type of player and I feel strongly about the type of player that is required to bring this team to the next level. However, one thing I appreciate about ctorres is that his post does acknowledge validity in my view. But maybe he's right, and I'll be eating crow.

Moreover, given the topic that we're discussing (players that impact the team culture), I don't think I'm off-base. We have seen guys with similar weaknesses (offense only, selfish play) derail the team culture and cause drama, with the most recent being the guy responsible for Hamsterdam and Evan Fournier, who was a lot more efficient than Clarkson. Ben Simmons, with his weaknesses, is not that type of guy. He might have his own things to work through, but I don't worry about him destroying the culture like that. Maybe I could have put it that way, but yes, if we're worried about the culture, Ben Simmons is not the guy to worry about.

you spoke your piece. we're good. appreciate it. thanks for the kind words in there as well.

i wouldn't call "agenda" or "rabbit hole" inflammatory. but point taken. we are trying to model steering away from agenda-driven posting that generally becomes baiting and trolling -- toxicity that takes away from good faith conversation. you are correct that i was trying to stem a derail in case ctorres (or anyone else) wanted to continue down that... path.

you would be incorrect to assume that i'm trying to say your point has no merit. that's not the kind of thing we moderate. opinions are diverse and to be respected. this has nothing to do with your stance on clarkson. ironically, that's what took center stage.

as for "the topic that we're discussing," this thread is about trades and transactions, not culture guys or the clarkson tangent you took. ben simmons (idiosyncrasies and all) is a current transaction discussion point. as a moderator, your dragging clarkson in from nowhere to say more of what you've said a lot of (from page 5 until the clarkson thread mercifully died down, free of moderator action) does seem agenda-driven and prime for derailing. we asked to avoid this in the updated guidelines and community refresh announcements this summer. what you described coming from other posters would be backseat moderating. you are correct about that not being welcome.

all that said, despite your preference, i didn't think you did anything worthy of action like a warning or a PM. i genuinely wanted to curb the reemerging clarkson battle. i am sorry if it made you feel devalued. that wasn't my intention. but i also hope my stance on the line of conversation is clear.