The Nickeil Alexander-Walker (NAW) Thread

[BlacJacMac]

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Me too

I do not see it. He can not handle pressure at all, and he doesn't make anything but the most rudimentary passes.

[minimus]

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Me too

I do not see it. He can not handle pressure at all, and he doesn't make anything but the most rudimentary passes.

Well, watching Caruso and Nembhard thriving in their roles, I can’t help but wonder if NAW isn’t getting as much help from our main ballhandlers (Edwards / DDV) as Caruso benefits from playing off SGA or Nembhard benefits from Haliburton.

Also, let’s not forget:
- Nembhard is paid ~$19M
- Caruso earns roughly the same, around $20M

So honestly, I’d be completely fine doubling NAW’s salary — up to $9–10M per year. That would still be a very good deal for MIN, especially if next season Dillingham can handle more of the backup PG duties.

I actually think both NAW and Rob could thrive together — their skill sets can complement each other nicely if the rotation is structured well.

[Klomp]

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Me too

I do not see it. He can not handle pressure at all, and he doesn't make anything but the most rudimentary passes.

Well, watching Caruso and Nembhard thriving in their roles, I can’t help but wonder if NAW isn’t getting as much help from our main ballhandlers (Edwards / DDV) as Caruso benefits from playing off SGA or Nembhard benefits from Haliburton.

Also, let’s not forget:
- Nembhard is paid ~$19M
- Caruso earns roughly the same, around $20M

So honestly, I’d be completely fine doubling NAW’s salary — up to $9–10M per year. That would still be a very good deal for MIN, especially if next season Dillingham can handle more of the backup PG duties.

I actually think both NAW and Rob could thrive together — their skill sets can complement each other nicely if the rotation is structured well.

I think those are both excellent comparisons for NAW, and I get the feeling most people wouldn't be as upset about starting them versus starting NAW.

I do understand that Ant isn't quite the lead ballhandler that Shai or Tyrese are, so it feels like the need is heightened, but I'm not sure it really is. I actually think where the team (and Ant specifically) runs into problems is more due to a lack of offensive production from Gobert and Conley and sometimes McDaniels rather than a lack of shot facilitation.

[minimus]

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I feel like if NAW leaves in FA, it might be another Kyle Anderson situation for MIN: our roster might loses a high IQ, high character guy, versatile in defense and who knows his role in offense.

[Klomp]

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I feel like if NAW leaves in FA, it might be another Kyle Anderson situation for MIN: our roster might loses a high IQ, high character guy, versatile in defense and who knows his role in offense.

It might be, however, we have a little more in place behind him than we had behind Anderson.

[shrink]

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I thought it was interesting to hear Windy on Hoop Collective say that an insider in the Wolves front office said that the team is trying to duck the second apron, but would be open to the right deal. This is exactly what they should say, but keeping NAW, even if meant more lux taxes and second apron restrictions, was not what they did.

The everyday public has been conditioned to think that apron restrictions are so severe, that a team can’t even function over the second apron, (which our team did just fine last year). It gives ownership the perfect excuse to not pay lux taxes, because fans will believe they are not spending for some mythical move down the road that no one even knows about, that would violate apron restrictions.

[winforlose]

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I thought it was interesting to hear Windy on Hoop Collective say that an insider in the Wolves front office said that the team is trying to duck the second apron, but would be open to the right deal. This is exactly what they should say, but keeping NAW, even if meant more lux taxes and second apron restrictions, was not what they did.

The everyday public has been conditioned to think that apron restrictions are so severe, that a team can’t even function over the second apron, (which our team did just fine last year). It gives ownership the perfect excuse to not pay lux taxes, because fans will believe they are not spending for some mythical move down the road that no one even knows about, that would violate apron restrictions.

Turning NAW into an Okogie like contract only works if you want to take back real money. Most teams that could afford him would not be able to take back extra money (assuming we don’t want to be in the 2nd apron,) and we can only be in the 2nd for two out of five years without major draft pick consequences/penalties. If you believe in TSJ, then you know that NAW is a luxury, and by moving on we keep the TPMLE available to hopefully add someone helpful like Monte Morris. I don’t object to letting him the way I did with Kyle Anderson. In Kyle’s case we were already a 2nd apron team, and the only difference was the actual tax bill. Whether or not to go into the 2nd apron is radically different than how far to go in.

[Devilzsidewalk]

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I thought it was interesting to hear Windy on Hoop Collective say that an insider in the Wolves front office said that the team is trying to duck the second apron, but would be open to the right deal. This is exactly what they should say, but keeping NAW, even if meant more lux taxes and second apron restrictions, was not what they did.

The everyday public has been conditioned to think that apron restrictions are so severe, that a team can’t even function over the second apron, (which our team did just fine last year). It gives ownership the perfect excuse to not pay lux taxes, because fans will believe they are not spending for some mythical move down the road that no one even knows about, that would violate apron restrictions.

I would assume ducking the 2nd apron is every front office's default position

[BlacJacMac]

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I thought it was interesting to hear Windy on Hoop Collective say that an insider in the Wolves front office said that the team is trying to duck the second apron, but would be open to the right deal. This is exactly what they should say, but keeping NAW, even if meant more lux taxes and second apron restrictions, was not what they did.

The everyday public has been conditioned to think that apron restrictions are so severe, that a team can’t even function over the second apron, (which our team did just fine last year). It gives ownership the perfect excuse to not pay lux taxes, because fans will believe they are not spending for some mythical move down the road that no one even knows about, that would violate apron restrictions.

I'd argue that keeping NAW was not the "right deal".

I like NAW, but he's not a player, especially for this team, that warrants going into the 2nd apron over.

[dschroeder01]

It gives ownership the perfect excuse to not pay lux taxes, because fans will believe they are not spending for some mythical move down the road that no one even knows about, that would violate apron restrictions.

That's not quite the whole picture though. The Wolves are under the 2nd apron, but are well into the luxury tax. Yes, going beyond the 2nd apron means even more money spent in tax, but in the Wolves current position, they're still really expensive.

[shrink]

Whether or not to go into the 2nd apron is radically different than how far to go in.

I would assume ducking the 2nd apron is every front office's default position

I like NAW, but he's not a player, especially for this team, that warrants going into the 2nd apron over.

Without looking, what specific rule in the second apron do you find so egregious?

(I used to think like this too, repeating what so many talking heads were saying that it was so bad. Like every new rule the CBA has inserted, including spending over the salary cap, it sounds really rough until teams realize the penalties don’t outweigh the superior chance to win a ring.)

[winforlose]

Whether or not to go into the 2nd apron is radically different than how far to go in.

I would assume ducking the 2nd apron is every front office's default position

I like NAW, but he's not a player, especially for this team, that warrants going into the 2nd apron over.

Without looking, what specific rule in the second apron do you find so egregious?

(I used to think like this too, repeating what so many talking heads were saying that it was so bad. Like every new rule the CBA has inserted, including spending over the salary cap, it sounds really rough until teams realize the penalties don’t outweigh the superior chance to win a ring.)

7 years later your pick is moved to last. Even if let’s say 4 or 5 teams have this happen, that is a ton of potential value loss over time. Add to that the in ability to trade a pick 7 years out. So we don’t own a trade able first until 2033. We have a swap on 28, and protections on 29, and technically a top 1 protection on the swap on 30. Not to mention giving up 31 to get Dilly. So if you really look at this, we are facing not just short term shortages, but long term shortages.

Combine the above with the truth of our roster. Ant, Jaden, Naz, TSJ, Dilly, and JB are all pre prime. Losing NAW hurts, but keeping him hurts too. We still have an imbalanced roster, but thankfully not as bad as last year. I expect Monte Morris to sign in the coming weeks. I don’t think this team wins a chip, I think it could get to the WCF depending on matchups, but to push beyond we either need a solid PG or a better coach, and we have neither.

[shrink]

Whether or not to go into the 2nd apron is radically different than how far to go in.

I would assume ducking the 2nd apron is every front office's default position

I like NAW, but he's not a player, especially for this team, that warrants going into the 2nd apron over.

Without looking, what specific rule in the second apron do you find so egregious?

(I used to think like this too, repeating what so many talking heads were saying that it was so bad. Like every new rule the CBA has inserted, including spending over the salary cap, it sounds really rough until teams realize the penalties don’t outweigh the superior chance to win a ring.)

7 years later your pick is moved to last. Even if let’s say 4 or 5 teams have this happen, that is a ton of potential value loss over time. Add to that the in ability to trade a pick 7 years out. So we don’t own a trade able first until 2033. We have a swap on 28, and protections on 29, and technically a top 1 protection on the swap on 30. Not to mention giving up 31 to get Dilly. So if you really look at this, we are facing not just short term shortages, but long term shortages.

Combine the above with the truth of our roster. Ant, Jaden, Naz, TSJ, Dilly, and JB are all pre prime. Losing NAW hurts, but keeping him hurts too. We still have an imbalanced roster, but thankfully not as bad as last year. I expect Monte Morris to sign in the coming weeks. I don’t think this team wins a chip, I think it could get to the WCF depending on matchups, but to push beyond we either need a solid PG or a better coach, and we have neither.

I know that rule seemed terrifying but look more closely. Remember, we have been above the second apron once.

If a team is above the second apron for three of any five consecutive seasons, their first-round pick in the following draft is automatically moved to the end of the round, regardless of their actual draft position that year.

So spending on NAW wouldn’t have frozen our pick. Moreover, if you are spending so much to be over the second apron, you probably aren’t getting a good pick to begin with. Moving 25 to 30 isn’t a big penalty.

Teams cannot trade their first-round pick seven years in the future if they are over the second apron. These picks can be unfrozen if the team avoids the second apron in at least three of the four years following the season in which the pick was frozen

You don’t lose the pick, you only can’t trade it! That isn’t much of a penalty either. And if you start to go under the second apron in the future, you can soon be eligible to trade it anyway.

[BlacJacMac]

I know that rule seemed terrifying but look more closely. Remember, we have been above the second apron once.

But it would've been 2/2 years. Meaning we'd have to be out of it the next 3.

And again, its just NAW. A nice bench player. Not a real needle mover.

It was time to move on. We need to see what we have in TSJ.

[winforlose]

Without looking, what specific rule in the second apron do you find so egregious?

(I used to think like this too, repeating what so many talking heads were saying that it was so bad. Like every new rule the CBA has inserted, including spending over the salary cap, it sounds really rough until teams realize the penalties don’t outweigh the superior chance to win a ring.)

7 years later your pick is moved to last. Even if let’s say 4 or 5 teams have this happen, that is a ton of potential value loss over time. Add to that the in ability to trade a pick 7 years out. So we don’t own a trade able first until 2033. We have a swap on 28, and protections on 29, and technically a top 1 protection on the swap on 30. Not to mention giving up 31 to get Dilly. So if you really look at this, we are facing not just short term shortages, but long term shortages.

Combine the above with the truth of our roster. Ant, Jaden, Naz, TSJ, Dilly, and JB are all pre prime. Losing NAW hurts, but keeping him hurts too. We still have an imbalanced roster, but thankfully not as bad as last year. I expect Monte Morris to sign in the coming weeks. I don’t think this team wins a chip, I think it could get to the WCF depending on matchups, but to push beyond we either need a solid PG or a better coach, and we have neither.

I know that rule seemed terrifying but look more closely. Remember, we have been above the second apron once.

If a team is above the second apron for three of any five consecutive seasons, their first-round pick in the following draft is automatically moved to the end of the round, regardless of their actual draft position that year.

So spending on NAW wouldn’t have frozen our pick. Moreover, if you are spending so much to be over the second apron, you probably aren’t getting a good pick to begin with. Moving 25 to 30 isn’t a big penalty.

Teams cannot trade their first-round pick seven years in the future if they are over the second apron. These picks can be unfrozen if the team avoids the second apron in at least three of the four years following the season in which the pick was frozen

You don’t lose the pick, you only can’t trade it! That isn’t much of a penalty either. And if you start to go under the second apron in the future, you can soon be eligible to trade it anyway.

Let’s break this down.

1. Are you saying the pick in 7 years is not the pick that is poisoned? If so how could that possibly work? For example, we owe Utah 2029 top 5 protected, say we are in the 2nd apron in 27/28 and 28/29. That is 3 of the last 5 years. Are you telling me we can sabotage a pick we already owe with no cost to us?

2. Is NAW a needle mover? Either NAW the player or the 15 million in salary we could add with him (remembering that we lose the TPMLE and whatever other money we have under the apron to go that route. I am just not sure that losing NAW and deciding to stay under the 2nd apron is the same thing as losing Kyle regardless of already being there. Especially with Terrance needing minutes to develop.

[shrink]

7 years later your pick is moved to last. Even if let’s say 4 or 5 teams have this happen, that is a ton of potential value loss over time. Add to that the in ability to trade a pick 7 years out. So we don’t own a trade able first until 2033. We have a swap on 28, and protections on 29, and technically a top 1 protection on the swap on 30. Not to mention giving up 31 to get Dilly. So if you really look at this, we are facing not just short term shortages, but long term shortages.

Combine the above with the truth of our roster. Ant, Jaden, Naz, TSJ, Dilly, and JB are all pre prime. Losing NAW hurts, but keeping him hurts too. We still have an imbalanced roster, but thankfully not as bad as last year. I expect Monte Morris to sign in the coming weeks. I don’t think this team wins a chip, I think it could get to the WCF depending on matchups, but to push beyond we either need a solid PG or a better coach, and we have neither.

I know that rule seemed terrifying but look more closely. Remember, we have been above the second apron once.

If a team is above the second apron for three of any five consecutive seasons, their first-round pick in the following draft is automatically moved to the end of the round, regardless of their actual draft position that year.

So spending on NAW wouldn’t have frozen our pick. Moreover, if you are spending so much to be over the second apron, you probably aren’t getting a good pick to begin with. Moving 25 to 30 isn’t a big penalty.

Teams cannot trade their first-round pick seven years in the future if they are over the second apron. These picks can be unfrozen if the team avoids the second apron in at least three of the four years following the season in which the pick was frozen

You don’t lose the pick, you only can’t trade it! That isn’t much of a penalty either. And if you start to go under the second apron in the future, you can soon be eligible to trade it anyway.

Let’s break this down.

1. Are you saying the pick in 7 years is not the pick that is poisoned? If so how could that possibly work? For example, we owe Utah 2029 top 5 protected, say we are in the 2nd apron in 27/28 and 28/29. That is 3 of the last 5 years. Are you telling me we can sabotage a pick we already owe with no cost to us?

2. Is NAW a needle mover? Either NAW the player or the 15 million in salary we could add with him (remembering that we lose the TPMLE and whatever other money we have under the apron to go that route. I am just not sure that losing NAW and deciding to stay under the 2nd apron is the same thing as losing Kyle regardless of already being there. Especially with Terrance needing minutes to develop.

1. You know, I’m not sure! I have seen it written differently by two different reputable sources, and of course, we haven’t seen a real world application of the rule yet, since the aprons have only been around two years. Maybe next available (unencumbered) pick? I don’t know, maybe I will research this later.

2. I agree with you that NAW isn’t a needle-mover. I believe he was fifth in “Six Man of the Year” voting, but that is hardly a star. The truth is, MIN doesn’t get many needle-movers, because they don’t choose us! If we had signed NAW from another team, I think he surpasses Kyle Anderson as the greatest free agent in franchise history. Losing NAW is a loss, especially since he likes it here, has talent, and already knows his teammates and Finch’s system. While other teams in the West have added talent in free agency, we lost it.

[winforlose]

I know that rule seemed terrifying but look more closely. Remember, we have been above the second apron once.


So spending on NAW wouldn’t have frozen our pick. Moreover, if you are spending so much to be over the second apron, you probably aren’t getting a good pick to begin with. Moving 25 to 30 isn’t a big penalty.


You don’t lose the pick, you only can’t trade it! That isn’t much of a penalty either. And if you start to go under the second apron in the future, you can soon be eligible to trade it anyway.

Let’s break this down.

1. Are you saying the pick in 7 years is not the pick that is poisoned? If so how could that possibly work? For example, we owe Utah 2029 top 5 protected, say we are in the 2nd apron in 27/28 and 28/29. That is 3 of the last 5 years. Are you telling me we can sabotage a pick we already owe with no cost to us?

2. Is NAW a needle mover? Either NAW the player or the 15 million in salary we could add with him (remembering that we lose the TPMLE and whatever other money we have under the apron to go that route. I am just not sure that losing NAW and deciding to stay under the 2nd apron is the same thing as losing Kyle regardless of already being there. Especially with Terrance needing minutes to develop.

1. You know, I’m not sure! I have seen it written differently by two different reputable sources, and of course, we haven’t seen a real world application of the rule yet, since the aprons have only been around two years. Maybe next available (unencumbered) pick? I don’t know, maybe I will research this later.

2. I agree with you that NAW isn’t a needle-mover. I believe he was fifth in “Six Man of the Year” voting, but that is hardly a star. The truth is, MIN doesn’t get many needle-movers, because they don’t choose us! If we had signed NAW from another team, I think he surpasses Kyle Anderson as the greatest free agent in franchise history. Losing NAW is a loss, especially since he likes it here, has talent, and already knows his teammates and Finch’s system. While other teams in the West have added talent in free agency, we lost it.

Your point about losing talent in free agency is true. But, that is the difference between being all in and not. We saw this with Denver since the chip. We lack the draft capital to acquire impact players. We lack the cash to sign guys. We need our picks to return us rotation worthy players. TSJ looks rotation worthy. JB is not likely rotation worthy but should be used anyway. Those 2 plus the other 6 (excluding Mike,) is 8 guys who need minutes. Mike is 9, and we need to find some for Dilly as well. NAW was not going to be happy having his minutes decrease, and we couldn’t avoid it. In ATL he might start. Plus who knows, if he struggles there, he will want to be back here.

[dschroeder01]

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I believe the Wolves 2032 pick is already frozen. If we stay under the 2nd apron 3 out of the next 4 years, the pick becomes unfrozen. If we go over the 2nd apron 2 more times in the next 4 years, the frozen pick becomes locked as the last pick of the first round and can't be changed.

Let's just say the Wolves exceeded the 2nd apron to resign NAW (also freezing the 2033 first) and were over again in 1 of the following 3 years, the already frozen 2032 pick moves to pick 30 no matter what else happens. Ant could demand a trade in 2030 with the Wolves then taking nosedive to 20 wins we'd still pick 30.

The 7 year thing was chosen specifically because there's no way that pick could have been traded yet due to the already existing rules about trading draft picks. The frozen/locked pick thing can never be a pick that has a trade obligation.