2025-2026: Around the League

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The negative discourse around buyouts just doesn’t make sense to me.

Good teams do buyouts. Bad teams do buyouts.

It’s just part of the game and has been for a long time.

The "discourse" is new in that the new CBA's apron effects are new. The concern is that the buyouts are being used to circumvent the spirt of the purpose of the two aprons.

They are. To argue otherwise is stupid.

Beal signed an astronomical deal with a NTC for $251m and was owed $111m before his buyout.

It means that as long as you have an owner willing to spend money it won’t directly go against your cap when you make franchise killing deals like this. You can do whatever you want apparently and Front offices don’t need to face repercussions.

Beal can just go sign with whoever while he still makes the money discounted over a period of time. Just another way of players choosing where they want to go while circumventing the CBA cap restrictions by stretching guaranteed contracts that are nearly never fulfilled by these specific players.

How about players that sign guaranteed contracts play for the guaranteed time unless they are moved to another team willing to take on the remainder of the full contract? Shocking revelation.

Only nba lawyers and agents could find ways of getting bad teams to pay good players to play for competing teams that were previously unable to add more talent due to cap restrictions 90% of the rest of the league would otherwise face when backed into a corner.

have a feeling you're going to start seeing more teams use this buyout as a way out of the aprons.. why wouldn't you if you think about it especially for aging type players.

[Knightro]

The negative discourse around buyouts just doesn’t make sense to me.

Good teams do buyouts. Bad teams do buyouts.

It’s just part of the game and has been for a long time.

The "discourse" is new in that the new CBA's apron effects are new. The concern is that the buyouts are being used to circumvent the spirt of the purpose of the two aprons.

They are. To argue otherwise is stupid.

Beal signed an astronomical deal with a NTC for $251m and was owed $111m before his buyout.

It means that as long as you have an owner willing to spend money it won’t directly go against your cap when you make franchise killing deals like this. You can do whatever you want apparently and Front offices don’t need to face repercussions.

Beal can just go sign with whoever while he still makes the money discounted over a period of time. Just another way of players choosing where they want to go while circumventing the CBA cap restrictions by stretching guaranteed contracts that are nearly never fulfilled by these specific players.

How about players that sign guaranteed contracts play for the guaranteed time unless they are moved to another team willing to take on the remainder of the full contract? Shocking revelation.

Only nba lawyers and agents could find ways of getting bad teams to pay good players to play for competing teams that were previously unable to add more talent due to cap restrictions 90% of the rest of the league would otherwise face when backed into a corner.

The way you guys act about buyouts is really bizarre to me. It's not like one side, player or team, can force the other side to do a buyout, ya know? It's a mutually agreed upon decision and if both parties want it to happen, then what exactly is the problem?

Beal and Smart both willingly gave up more guaranteed money than they were able to make back on their new contract in order to be set free. Neither guy is being "paid twice" or circumventing the CBA or salary cap in any way really.

Smart gave back $7M to get a $5M deal this year.

Beal gave back $14M to get a $5M deal this year.

No different than the hundreds of players we've seen take cheaper contracts than they probably could have gotten from a worse team in order to chase rings with good teams over the years.

I just don't particularly see the problem. The main issue for everybody seems to stem the fact the two players went to the two Los Angeles teams above all else, but like if those two guys had just been unrestricted free agents without the buyout piece, they very likely still sign the exact same contracts with the exact same teams.

That's simply what each guy is worth at this point given the respective ages and injury histories.

The Rockets pushed back Jock Landale's guarantee date and then waived him and he immediately signed with the Grizzlies, but no one cared because it was Memphis.

The Grizzlies bought out and stretched Cole Anthony and he immediately signed with the Bucks, but no one cared because it was Milwaukee.

The Bucks didn't even buyout Dame! They just stretched waived him and no one batted an eye as he went back to Portland because of the romantic element of coming home.

This isn't an issue with the CBA so much as this is an issue with people specifically not liking the fact that two teams from LA were able to get players they "shouldn't" have gotten. But instead of having piss in your pants about that, why are we not praising the Clippers for good front office work by letting Paul George walk for literally nothing last summer?

Because by doing that and replacing him in the aggregate with much cheaper options, they allowed themselves the opportunity to get out of the aprons and be in a position to make the moves they made this summer.

But we're mad about that? For them having foresight? Because of their city? That doesn't make sense.

[Knightro]

Now I will say, if you want to make a legitimate gripe against the NBA and the current CBA, I think it is very fair to say that the changes that were implemented should have been afforded a much longer roll out period.

Like if they wanted to do these aprons and all that stuff, it would have been more fair for all 30 teams for that to have been announced 2 or 3 years ahead of when it was actually implemented. That would have given all of the teams the ability to prepare for what turned out to be significant changes to the team building process.

But they didn't do that. They just implemented it immediately and basically if a team had already put itself in a certain financial position, they were kind of screwed even though they didn't make any "bad" financial decisions after the new CBA changes were put into place.

Many teams have been essentially retroactively punished for financial decisions that were made under a completely different CBA which is kind of unfair.

[eyriq]

Buyouts are a bad outcome all around. For the team, it means eating dead money on a cap sheet that's already tight thanks to the apron rules. For the player, it's a clear sign their value has dropped off and now they’ve got to rebuild their reputation.

For the team picking them up, it’s basically a cheap lottery ticket. And honestly, big-market teams have always had an edge in free agency, so this isn’t anything new.

[VFX]

People need to stop acting like legitimate starters signing contracts in the hundreds of millions are in the same category as fringe bench players or role players that barely move the needle.

Yeah, it’s just complete happenstance that a few years into this new apron cba thing we start seeing legitimate starters, allstars, and all defense players getting waived, stretched, and bought out. Totally a coincidence!

Yeah it doesn’t help that the two guys worth anything next season went directly to two teams cornered into cap hell for an extremely nominal amount relative to their usual contract numbers. But outside of Lillard rehabbing in Portland that was always going to be the case in these situations. What’s next? Jokic signing a deal, getting bought out in two seasons, and joining the warriors for $5m?

Milwaukee and Phoenix should have been crippled for the next 3-4 seasons for being terribly run. The grand scheme of it is LA teams benefiting for incompetence simply due to being large markets that spend money for a complete roster every season.

[Knightro]

Again... buyouts are a mutual decision.

You know what Bradley Beal could have said to the Suns if he wanted to?

F you, pay me every single last nickel. I want the full amount I'm owed and he would have been fully within his right to do so.

And guess what? Had he taken that route, the Suns would not have stretch waived him. In fact, legally they couldn't stretch waive him unless he gave back $14M dollars, which he willingly chose to do.

[basketballRob]

If we had $5m to spend and offered a multi-year deal, we could probably get Mccollum or Middleton. Why would Washington keep them if they offered them a $5m saving in a buyout? Lillard made money by being waived.

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[eyriq]

Milwaukee and Phoenix should have been crippled for the next 3-4 seasons for being terribly run. The grand scheme of it is LA teams benefiting for incompetence simply due to being large markets that spend money for a complete roster every season.

Milwaukee and Phoenix aren’t crippled, but their cap sheets still put them at a clear disadvantage: in an era where every dollar matters, each club has effectively sacrificed a starter-level salary slot.

[pepe1991]

Milwaukee and Phoenix should have been crippled for the next 3-4 seasons for being terribly run. The grand scheme of it is LA teams benefiting for incompetence simply due to being large markets that spend money for a complete roster every season.

Milwaukee and Phoenix aren’t crippled, but their cap sheets still put them at a clear disadvantage: in an era where every dollar matters, each club has effectively sacrificed a starter-level salary slot.

That's the point tho, they aren't as crippled as they should be and in same time Lakers payroll is waay bigger than their, and Lakers casually just added starting level C who, when focused is top 10 player at his position and top 2 best perimeter defender - for $14M total

And did in such fashion where trades weren't needed, previous salary attachment didn't happen, just casually called out their agents and arranged whole thing.

As MM said, what stops one Jokić /SGA/Tatum /whoever from going to Knicks/Lakers for $5M a year ? He'll get his money anyway.

And in same time crippled Suns without pick are giving up on Beal so he can join team with even bigger payroll

Some random Cole Anthony , Jock Landale being cut are irrelevant. Smart, Ayton, Beal aren't irrelevant for nba by any stretch of imagination.

This nba era could be called "random s*** era" because everything that happens is so random and no matter how many "rules" exist, by doing random stuff you can avoid all of them.


Agree with Knightro about "drop" of CBA, but i've been complaining about it for past two years, but once again, "random s*** era" , in middle of your ball out for a title nba decides you no longer will just pay luxury tax, they will also take away your picks , trade ability etc . I guess they didn't think hard enough about star players buyouts

[drsd]

Buyouts are a bad outcome all around. For the team, it means eating dead money on a cap sheet that's already tight thanks to the apron rules. For the player, it's a clear sign their value has dropped off and now they’ve got to rebuild their reputation.

For the team picking them up, it’s basically a cheap lottery ticket. And honestly, big-market teams have always had an edge in free agency, so this isn’t anything new.

They are not a bad outcome for teams struggling to get up to the 90% salary floor. And it is the salary floor that is "allowing" these buyouts.

Now: from a management perspective, I agree that buyouts can be painful (look at Milwaukee). But from a player perspective, something needs to change. Getting paid twice to do the same job is not part of the commutative balance of the CBA.

It leads to silly news reporting like:

Cole Anthony gave back $2 million in his buyout agreement with the Memphis Grizzlies.

He signed for 2,667,947, so actually he is making more money not less. The idea that a player can "pay" team-A to paid more by team-B is, well , ....

[Knightro]

As MM said, what stops one Jokić /SGA/Tatum /whoever from going to Knicks/Lakers for $5M a year ? He'll get his money anyway.

What’s stopping them is that their teams aren’t going to buy them out.

I’ll say it for like the 5th time.

Buyouts are a mutual decision between team and player.

If one of the two sides doesn’t want it, it won’t happen.

The amount of overrating that’s happening right now with Beal, Smart and Ayton - which is only happening because of the teams they ended up signing with - is crazy to me.

All three of those guys got paid what they would have gotten paid had they been regular ole free agents and not buyout guys.

*Maybe* Beal would have gotten a bigger portion of somebody’s 14.1M MLE instead of the TPMLE, but that’s it.

[MasterGMer]

Nikola Jokic mentioned in his China tour that he could possibly not playing basketball in several years.

Anybody thinks Jokic is enjoying his time in Denver?


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[msmoore66]

Nikola Jokic mentioned in his China tour that he could possibly not playing basketball in several years.

Anybody thinks Jokic is enjoying his time in Denver?


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I dunno if it is Denver per se, I just think Jokic doesn't love basketball as much as we all like to think he does.

[BadMofoPimp]

If we had $5m to spend and offered a multi-year deal, we could probably get Mccollum or Middleton. Why would Washington keep them if they offered them a $5m saving in a buyout? Lillard made money by being waived.

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Trading Jett with some future 2nds could free up $5.5 mil.

[anothermagicfan]

The "discourse" is new in that the new CBA's apron effects are new. The concern is that the buyouts are being used to circumvent the spirt of the purpose of the two aprons.

They are. To argue otherwise is stupid.

Beal signed an astronomical deal with a NTC for $251m and was owed $111m before his buyout.

It means that as long as you have an owner willing to spend money it won’t directly go against your cap when you make franchise killing deals like this. You can do whatever you want apparently and Front offices don’t need to face repercussions.

Beal can just go sign with whoever while he still makes the money discounted over a period of time. Just another way of players choosing where they want to go while circumventing the CBA cap restrictions by stretching guaranteed contracts that are nearly never fulfilled by these specific players.

How about players that sign guaranteed contracts play for the guaranteed time unless they are moved to another team willing to take on the remainder of the full contract? Shocking revelation.

Only nba lawyers and agents could find ways of getting bad teams to pay good players to play for competing teams that were previously unable to add more talent due to cap restrictions 90% of the rest of the league would otherwise face when backed into a corner.

The way you guys act about buyouts is really bizarre to me. It's not like one side, player or team, can force the other side to do a buyout, ya know? It's a mutually agreed upon decision and if both parties want it to happen, then what exactly is the problem?

Beal and Smart both willingly gave up more guaranteed money than they were able to make back on their new contract in order to be set free. Neither guy is being "paid twice" or circumventing the CBA or salary cap in any way really.

Smart gave back $7M to get a $5M deal this year.

Beal gave back $14M to get a $5M deal this year.

No different than the hundreds of players we've seen take cheaper contracts than they probably could have gotten from a worse team in order to chase rings with good teams over the years.

I just don't particularly see the problem. The main issue for everybody seems to stem the fact the two players went to the two Los Angeles teams above all else, but like if those two guys had just been unrestricted free agents without the buyout piece, they very likely still sign the exact same contracts with the exact same teams.

That's simply what each guy is worth at this point given the respective ages and injury histories.

The Rockets pushed back Jock Landale's guarantee date and then waived him and he immediately signed with the Grizzlies, but no one cared because it was Memphis.

The Grizzlies bought out and stretched Cole Anthony and he immediately signed with the Bucks, but no one cared because it was Milwaukee.

The Bucks didn't even buyout Dame! They just stretched waived him and no one batted an eye as he went back to Portland because of the romantic element of coming home.

This isn't an issue with the CBA so much as this is an issue with people specifically not liking the fact that two teams from LA were able to get players they "shouldn't" have gotten. But instead of having piss in your pants about that, why are we not praising the Clippers for good front office work by letting Paul George walk for literally nothing last summer?

Because by doing that and replacing him in the aggregate with much cheaper options, they allowed themselves the opportunity to get out of the aprons and be in a position to make the moves they made this summer.

But we're mad about that? For them having foresight? Because of their city? That doesn't make sense.

There's arguments for both sides of this but I think you're missing the point here. You compared Bradley Beal getting bought out and signing in La to Cole and jock whoever going to Milwaukee and Portland. Add in Ayton. You got 3 players that are proven difference makers going to cap strapped LA teams super cheap and 2 irrelevant guys going to Portland and Milwaukee. Ok the Milwaukee Portland situations are different because of lilliard affecting both teams. The point is that buyouts have not circumvented large market teams from having an unfair advantage.

We got tyus for 7 million and the clippers got Beal for 5.3


You don't see anything wrong with that?

[anothermagicfan]

They are. To argue otherwise is stupid.

Beal signed an astronomical deal with a NTC for $251m and was owed $111m before his buyout.

It means that as long as you have an owner willing to spend money it won’t directly go against your cap when you make franchise killing deals like this. You can do whatever you want apparently and Front offices don’t need to face repercussions.

Beal can just go sign with whoever while he still makes the money discounted over a period of time. Just another way of players choosing where they want to go while circumventing the CBA cap restrictions by stretching guaranteed contracts that are nearly never fulfilled by these specific players.

How about players that sign guaranteed contracts play for the guaranteed time unless they are moved to another team willing to take on the remainder of the full contract? Shocking revelation.

Only nba lawyers and agents could find ways of getting bad teams to pay good players to play for competing teams that were previously unable to add more talent due to cap restrictions 90% of the rest of the league would otherwise face when backed into a corner.

The way you guys act about buyouts is really bizarre to me. It's not like one side, player or team, can force the other side to do a buyout, ya know? It's a mutually agreed upon decision and if both parties want it to happen, then what exactly is the problem?

Beal and Smart both willingly gave up more guaranteed money than they were able to make back on their new contract in order to be set free. Neither guy is being "paid twice" or circumventing the CBA or salary cap in any way really.

Smart gave back $7M to get a $5M deal this year.

Beal gave back $14M to get a $5M deal this year.

No different than the hundreds of players we've seen take cheaper contracts than they probably could have gotten from a worse team in order to chase rings with good teams over the years.

I just don't particularly see the problem. The main issue for everybody seems to stem the fact the two players went to the two Los Angeles teams above all else, but like if those two guys had just been unrestricted free agents without the buyout piece, they very likely still sign the exact same contracts with the exact same teams.

That's simply what each guy is worth at this point given the respective ages and injury histories.

The Rockets pushed back Jock Landale's guarantee date and then waived him and he immediately signed with the Grizzlies, but no one cared because it was Memphis.

The Grizzlies bought out and stretched Cole Anthony and he immediately signed with the Bucks, but no one cared because it was Milwaukee.

The Bucks didn't even buyout Dame! They just stretched waived him and no one batted an eye as he went back to Portland because of the romantic element of coming home.

This isn't an issue with the CBA so much as this is an issue with people specifically not liking the fact that two teams from LA were able to get players they "shouldn't" have gotten. But instead of having piss in your pants about that, why are we not praising the Clippers for good front office work by letting Paul George walk for literally nothing last summer?

Because by doing that and replacing him in the aggregate with much cheaper options, they allowed themselves the opportunity to get out of the aprons and be in a position to make the moves they made this summer.

But we're mad about that? For them having foresight? Because of their city? That doesn't make sense.

There's arguments for both sides of this but I think you're missing the point here. You compared smart and Bradley Beal getting bought out and signing in La to Cole and jock whoever going to Milwaukee and Portland. Add in Ayton. You got 3 players that are proven difference makers going to cap strapped LA teams super cheap and 2 irrelevant guys going to Portland and Milwaukee. Ok the Milwaukee Portland situations are different because of lilliard affecting both teams. The point is that buyouts have not circumvented large market teams from having an unfair advantage.

We got tyus for 7 million and the clippers got Beal for 5.3


You don't see anything wrong with that?

[VFX]

There's arguments for both sides of this but I think you're missing the point here. You compared Bradley Beal getting bought out and signing in La to Cole and jock whoever going to Milwaukee and Portland. Add in Ayton. You got 3 players that are proven difference makers going to cap strapped LA teams super cheap and 2 irrelevant guys going to Portland and Milwaukee. Ok the Milwaukee Portland situations are different because of lilliard affecting both teams. The point is that buyouts have not circumvented large market teams from having an unfair advantage.

We got tyus for 7 million and the clippers got Beal for 5.3


You don't see anything wrong with that?

Knightro won't argue if a take is anomalous or completely inconsistent with the point being made.

He will just say "yeah well all parties agreed to it so the **** cares". Like there is no actual context or slippery slope to be aware of in the given situation.

Yeah thats the goddamn point of the conversation obviously. Things happen because bad organizations made bad decisions and people that aren't casuals happen to notice who benefits. Nobody is arguing whether it's legal or outside the bounds of the rules. Thats Reddit tier logic.

Sorry, I'm not too keen on starting level players making $100m+ to sign to LA for $5m because some lawyers and agents picked up a phone behind the scenes and it coincidentally helps the league. It's not like Ayton, Smart, or Beal were gonna randomly appear in Charlotte, Brooklyn, or Toronto next season for more. No of course they will wind up exactly in Los Angeles as those two teams were backed up against a wall with zero options.

Like we don't have a decade plus of examples now of entitled players handing teams a ransom list of places forcing them to acquiesce to their demands for ass return already. It's the same exact **** with extra steps taking cap and apron into account.

[pepe1991]

Nikola Jokic mentioned in his China tour that he could possibly not playing basketball in several years.

Anybody thinks Jokic is enjoying his time in Denver?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dunno if it is Denver per se, I just think Jokic doesn't love basketball as much as we all like to think he does.

Bro was crying like a baby yesterday when his horse won

I think he loves basketball but treats it as a job, i'm not sure he really likes living in USA in general. He has very close circle of friends from childhood ( + brothers ) and married his highschool love.

He is private person, all the spotlights don't really mean much to him.

[pepe1991]

As MM said, what stops one Jokić /SGA/Tatum /whoever from going to Knicks/Lakers for $5M a year ? He'll get his money anyway.

What’s stopping them is that their teams aren’t going to buy them out.

I’ll say it for like the 5th time.

Buyouts are a mutual decision between team and player.

If one of the two sides doesn’t want it, it won’t happen.

The amount of overrating that’s happening right now with Beal, Smart and Ayton - which is only happening because of the teams they ended up signing with - is crazy to me.

All three of those guys got paid what they would have gotten paid had they been regular ole free agents and not buyout guys.

*Maybe* Beal would have gotten a bigger portion of somebody’s 14.1M MLE instead of the TPMLE, but that’s it.

Caris Levert (31) - $14,5M a year
Turner (2) $27M a year
Bobby Portis (30) - $14,5M a year
Kennard (30) - 11M a year
Kornett (30) - 11M a year
Merrill (29 ) - 9,5M a year
Duncan Robinson (31) - $16M a year



Guys who's deals are bigger than Beal & Smart:

Nicolas Batum ( 37)
Zaire Williams
Isaiah Jackson
Capela
Tree Mann (after back surgery )
Brook Lopez ( age 38 )


And you are telling me that Marcus Smart, Bradley Beal and Ayton wouldn't cost more than $5,5 & $8,5M ?



One legged Isaiah Jackson & Mortiz Wagner, both big guys with ACL tears cost $5M a year and neither was ever 10% as talented as Ayton. Both will probably miss sh*** loud of time even after they are officially recover, since ACLs for bigs are always complicated.

The amount of overrating that’s happening right now with Beal, Smart and Ayton - which is only happening because of the teams they ended up signing with - is crazy to me.

Because they are better at basketball than entire 2025 FA class and all 3 went to LA teams and costed them nothing. They weren't even FAs, all moves were pre-arranged and staged.

Buyout is mutal decision between two parties- player and current team.
What happens when new team knows about it two weeks in advance? Well, they trade SG for PF as they know they will add SG for nothing


I'm still confused, and apparently not only one, why you can't see how problematic it is. They were never free agents, LA teams never had to pay them "real" money since they have guaranteed previous deals. They got better for free, where some poor bastards like PIstons had to pay some Levert & Duncan Robinson cumulative $30M .
And hidden genius in all this is that they are exp. money. So being over second apron won't hurt them as they will just shed off books lot of salary and go below aprons without any consequences in April.

Buyouts of Cole- type players make virtually no difference whatsoever in winning and losing. Those 3 guys are not Cole Anthony. They are well established players. Ayton's thing is by far the worst given context of how young he is, and how good he is when motivated.

[basketballRob]

As MM said, what stops one Jokić /SGA/Tatum /whoever from going to Knicks/Lakers for $5M a year ? He'll get his money anyway.

What’s stopping them is that their teams aren’t going to buy them out.

I’ll say it for like the 5th time.

Buyouts are a mutual decision between team and player.

If one of the two sides doesn’t want it, it won’t happen.

The amount of overrating that’s happening right now with Beal, Smart and Ayton - which is only happening because of the teams they ended up signing with - is crazy to me.

All three of those guys got paid what they would have gotten paid had they been regular ole free agents and not buyout guys.

*Maybe* Beal would have gotten a bigger portion of somebody’s 14.1M MLE instead of the TPMLE, but that’s it.

Caris Levert (31) - $14,5M a year
Turner (2) $27M a year
Bobby Portis (30) - $14,5M a year
Kennard (30) - 11M a year
Kornett (30) - 11M a year
Merrill (29 ) - 9,5M a year
Duncan Robinson (31) - $16M a year



Guys who's deals are bigger than Beal & Smart:

Nicolas Batum ( 37)
Zaire Williams
Isaiah Jackson
Capela
Tree Mann (after back surgery )
Brook Lopez ( age 38 )


And you are telling me that Marcus Smart, Bradley Beal and Ayton wouldn't cost more than $5,5 & $8,5M ?



One legged Isaiah Jackson & Mortiz Wagner, both big guys with ACL tears cost $5M a year and neither was ever 10% as talented as Ayton. Both will probably miss sh*** loud of time even after they are officially recover, since ACLs for bigs are always complicated.

The amount of overrating that’s happening right now with Beal, Smart and Ayton - which is only happening because of the teams they ended up signing with - is crazy to me.

Because they are better at basketball than entire 2025 FA class and all 3 went to LA teams and costed them nothing. They weren't even FAs, all moves were pre-arranged and staged.

Buyout is mutal decision between two parties- player and current team.
What happens when new team knows about it two weeks in advance? Well, they trade SG for PF as they know they will add SG for nothing


I'm still confused, and apparently not only one, why you can't see how problematic it is. They were never free agents, LA teams never had to pay them "real" money since they have guaranteed previous deals. They got better for free, where some poor bastards like PIstons had to pay some Levert & Duncan Robinson cumulative $30M .
And hidden genius in all this is that they are exp. money. So being over second apron won't hurt them as they will just shed off books lot of salary and go below aprons without any consequences in April.

Ayton, Beal, and Smart were bought out after all the free agent money had dried up. Washington and Phoenix held onto them to try and trade them first.

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