Why did Dame and Giannis never really click?

[Triple M]

The Bucks roster aged out and couldn't replace key players in the draft because they drafed mainly in the 2nd round. They got their ring but they invested a lot of future capital.

On top of that there was coaching instability, 3 coaches in 3 years, and the fit just didn't materialize. But they mainly aged out of contention.

[dhsilv2]

The first year they were +10 per 100 together and last year the team was worse but they were still +4.3.

The duo worked rather well imo. The rest of the team wasn't great and they were hurt in the playoffs.

How good were we expecting them to be together while the rest of the roster got worse?

[Capn'O]

I always wondered why they didn't just hire Stotts

[Bernman]

The first year they were +10 per 100 together and last year the team was worse but they were still +4.3.

The duo worked rather well imo. The rest of the team wasn't great and they were hurt in the playoffs.

How good were we expecting them to be together while the rest of the roster got worse?

Wrong, the Bucks were 3.5 pts better w/out Dame on the court last season. Dame/Giannis was +5 & KPJ/Giannis was +21, best in the eastern conference (and outside a few OKC duos).

Dame/Giannis indeed had bad chemistry. Both are alphas. And the p&r chemistry didn't work that well cuz Giannis slipped and Dame couldn't pass over top or get out of double teams anymore.

Dame also couldn't be arsed to play d much. He's not a big winning player. The lack of urgency w/ his legacy on the line reinforced that.

[Pattycakes]

Bucks were really a trash situation outside of Giannis.

[Bernman]

Bucks were really a trash situation outside of Giannis.

You're making excuses for your guy. The Bucks won more w/out him last yr (+3.5). Defense, effort, size matters. Maybe they'd have risen in the playoffs (like in the Cup). But Dame's regular season was lackluster, even in "Dame Time". Shot 32% from field & 15% 3 in the clutch.

[TheGeneral99]

Too many injuries and not enough games played together.

[dhsilv2]

The first year they were +10 per 100 together and last year the team was worse but they were still +4.3.

The duo worked rather well imo. The rest of the team wasn't great and they were hurt in the playoffs.

How good were we expecting them to be together while the rest of the roster got worse?

Wrong, the Bucks were 3.5 pts better w/out Dame on the court last season. Dame/Giannis was +5 & KPJ/Giannis was +21, best in the eastern conference (and outside a few OKC duos).

Dame/Giannis indeed had bad chemistry. Both are alphas. And the p&r chemistry didn't work that well cuz Giannis slipped and Dame couldn't pass over top or get out of double teams anymore.

Dame also couldn't be arsed to play d much. He's not a big winning player. The lack of urgency w/ his legacy on the line reinforced that.

Those were the numbers with Dame AND Giannis on...

[Bernman]

The first year they were +10 per 100 together and last year the team was worse but they were still +4.3.

The duo worked rather well imo. The rest of the team wasn't great and they were hurt in the playoffs.

How good were we expecting them to be together while the rest of the roster got worse?

Wrong, the Bucks were 3.5 pts better w/out Dame on the court last season. Dame/Giannis was +5 & KPJ/Giannis was +21, best in the eastern conference (and outside a few OKC duos).

Dame/Giannis indeed had bad chemistry. Both are alphas. And the p&r chemistry didn't work that well cuz Giannis slipped and Dame couldn't pass over top or get out of double teams anymore.

Dame also couldn't be arsed to play d much. He's not a big winning player. The lack of urgency w/ his legacy on the line reinforced that.

Those were the numbers with Dame AND Giannis on...

I know, you expect to be better than +4 or +5 per 100 w/ Giannis on the court, and the Bucks were w/out Dame, as I pointed out w/ Dame's negative on-off, & the +21 w/ KPJ/Giannis.

[dhsilv2]

Wrong, the Bucks were 3.5 pts better w/out Dame on the court last season. Dame/Giannis was +5 & KPJ/Giannis was +21, best in the eastern conference (and outside a few OKC duos).

Dame/Giannis indeed had bad chemistry. Both are alphas. And the p&r chemistry didn't work that well cuz Giannis slipped and Dame couldn't pass over top or get out of double teams anymore.

Dame also couldn't be arsed to play d much. He's not a big winning player. The lack of urgency w/ his legacy on the line reinforced that.

Those were the numbers with Dame AND Giannis on...

I know, you expect to be better than +4 or +5 per 100 w/ Giannis on the court, and the Bucks were w/out Dame, as I pointed out w/ Dame's negative on-off, & the +21 w/ KPJ/Giannis.

The bucks were still +0.4 with Dame last year. This being a year that Giannis and Dame both missed a lot of games and played hurt a good bit. It still shows being +4.3 together, despite all that, that they played reasonable well together.

[CharityStripe34]

Yeah, they weren't a trainwreck on the court or anything while playing together.

To be fair to both, Middleton started breaking down, Prince was played out of position, they were starting a literal zero at SG for a while (Andre Jackson) so the wings in between both of them were pedestrian at best for much of the season (and that's mostly Middleton being a savvy vet despite being limited defensively).

[old skool]

1. Lillard's game had to change halfway through the 2023-24 season when the NBA started to allow more defense and stopped calling fouls on some contacted initiated on drives to the basket. Suddenly Lillard had to work much harder for points with defenses more aggressive and fouls harder to draw.

2. Dame Time was and is a one man offense. Sometimes spectacular, usually a failure.

3. Lillard pounding the dribble while looking for a way to attack was easy to defend in spite of his ability to score.

4. I Milwaukee Lillard expended more energy trying to defend, leaving him less energy to devote to offense.

5. I think roster instability was more of an issue than coaching instability.

6. At age 34, Lillard's body was breaking down.

7. The Bucks only lost 1 playoff game where both Lillard and Antetokounmpo played. They never lost a game where Lillard, Antetokounmpo and Middleton played (zero games played). Relying on aging veterans is a high risk proposition.

[boomershadow]

I think the original plan was to play Giannis at the 5 and see what their two-man game would look like. Giannis didn't actually want to play much 5 and set all those screens every regular season game.

[maradro]

I remember half this board proclaimed them to be the best pnr duo ever before playing a game lol