Chicago bulls : What is the plan?

[League Circles]

Regarding the criticism of profits over winning, I'm not too concerned about the reluctance to pay the luxury tax. I believe Michael when he said they would be willing to go into it if they were a top-4 team in the East.The problem is that have a ton of difficulty getting there.

The criticism that makes more sense to me is about the reluctance to a do full scale rebuild. They haven't really done that since Krause. The rebuild after the Jimmy Butler trade was designed to be brief with expected contributions early on from LaVine and Dunn. They also didn't do much on the selling off of additional assets, taking on bad contracts for picks, etc. They aren't doing any of that this time too. AK sold Michael on the idea that full scale rebuilds aren't necessary -- a quality organization can keep winning without becoming a bottoming team. The financial impact of this is the Bulls mostly sell out unless they are really bad. Attendance has been pretty good during these play-in years. Maybe this is a coincidence but I think there is probably something there.

They do want to win though. And given enough time, they will be good again even if it's by luck. Hopefully sooner than later.

When the Bulls were a top 4 team in the East, didn’t Reinsdorf say that he wouldn’t go into the tax unless the Bulls were a legitimate championship contender? Bulls Ownership is just making these comments because they have to in order to sucker more fans into loyalty.

IIRC JR made the contender comments, and then years later MR or maybe Paxson or someone clarified that that basically meant top 4 seed. And the only time we were a top 4 seed we were also a contender and did indeed pay the tax.

[dougthonus]

Buz was pretty good especially with blocks.

Tre was a very strong POA defender.

Noa has the length and lateral movement to be a real force on D. Those 3 with Okoro and a future rim protector C should give us a good shot. Pat when healthy can play some disruptive D too.

Depends if you're looking at this year or just down the line.

This year, I'd guess Tre + Noa will barely play. We obviously don't have that rim protecting center and won't get one, and Buz is okay but shot blocking isn't frequently generating a lot of fast break offense, it's typically much more about steals / passing lanes as a lot of blocked shots go out of bounds or back to the offensive player.

Might be better in the future if Noa / Tre become bigger players and show this ability and if we get that center and if Buz continues to develop, but that's also four things that aren't true today that only might be true later.

As it stands today, I think we've got one disruptive defender on the roster in Okoro (whom also projects as a 50% playing time guy) and another reasonably likely in Matas.

[DuckIII]

I think doubling down on pace combined with disruptive defense that gets turnovers for easy buckets is most important thing in all the quotes. Quite different than the layup line known as Vuc.

If they are able to be top 3 in pace and add in the turnover producing defense they will surprise and win a bunch more games than anticipated.

I could actually see Noa carving out a nice role by the end of his rookie season as the hyper defender coming off the bench aka Caruso in the past. I think Okoro will start.

It's interesting because we sure don't seem to have the personnel to be a disruptive defense that generates turnovers outside of Okoro.

We have several disruptive or projected disruptive defenders in Ayo, Okoro, Matas and eventually Essengue. And Pat is a disruptive defender - a very disruptive defender - when he's healthy and engaged. But you can't count on that going into this year.

Not really the point though. The point is that is the model they are in the process of building. Not the model they have already built. This basically started in earnest 5 months ago.

[sco]

It's interesting because we sure don't seem to have the personnel to be a disruptive defense that generates turnovers outside of Okoro.

Buz was pretty good especially with blocks.

Tre was a very strong POA defender.

Noa has the length and lateral movement to be a real force on D. Those 3 with Okoro and a future rim protector C should give us a good shot. Pat when healthy can play some disruptive D too.
Depends if you're looking at this year or just down the line.

This year, I'd guess Tre + Noa will barely play. We obviously don't have that rim protecting center and won't get one, and Buz is okay but shot blocking isn't frequently generating a lot of fast break offense, it's typically much more about steals / passing lanes as a lot of blocked shots go out of bounds or back to the offensive player.

Might be better in the future if Noa / Tre become bigger players and show this ability and if we get that center and if Buz continues to develop, but that's also four things that aren't true today that only might be true later.

As it stands today, I think we've got one disruptive defender on the roster in Okoro (whom also projects as a 50% playing time guy) and another reasonably likely in Matas.

I'll be interested to see how many minutes Okoro/Tre/Noa get this season. I think we'll need one of Okoro or Tre on the court at all times to be our primary POA defender (even though they play slightly different positions).

Besides being effective as our POA defender and backup PG last year, Tre really excelled at finishing breaks (sorta part of the POA defender role). My point is that he really supplanted both Ball and Ayo in those roles, playing well alongside Giddey well, in addition to backing him up. Ayo, Carter and Terry should really not get rotation minutes. The 1-3 minutes of 144 per game less say 64 minutes for Coby and Giddey, leaves 80 mpg to split between Okoro, Jones and Huerter (and MAYBE Pat if he has a strong showing). I doubt Okoro sees more than 30 minutes, so that leaves 50 minutes to split between Jones and Huerter...I'd like to see that split equally.

[Evil_Headband]

Regarding the criticism of profits over winning, I'm not too concerned about the reluctance to pay the luxury tax. I believe Michael when he said they would be willing to go into it if they were a top-4 team in the East.The problem is that have a ton of difficulty getting there.

The criticism that makes more sense to me is about the reluctance to a do full scale rebuild. They haven't really done that since Krause. The rebuild after the Jimmy Butler trade was designed to be brief with expected contributions early on from LaVine and Dunn. They also didn't do much on the selling off of additional assets, taking on bad contracts for picks, etc. They aren't doing any of that this time too. AK sold Michael on the idea that full scale rebuilds aren't necessary -- a quality organization can keep winning without becoming a bottoming team. The financial impact of this is the Bulls mostly sell out unless they are really bad. Attendance has been pretty good during these play-in years. Maybe this is a coincidence but I think there is probably something there.

They do want to win though. And given enough time, they will be good again even if it's by luck. Hopefully sooner than later.

When the Bulls were a top 4 team in the East, didn’t Reinsdorf say that he wouldn’t go into the tax unless the Bulls were a legitimate championship contender? Bulls Ownership is just making these comments because they have to in order to sucker more fans into loyalty.

IIRC JR made the contender comments, and then years later MR or maybe Paxson or someone clarified that that basically meant top 4 seed. And the only time we were a top 4 seed we were also a contender and did indeed pay the tax.

MR gave the top 4 answer to KC under the AK regime (just a few years ago).

[dougthonus]

We have several disruptive or projected disruptive defenders in Ayo, Okoro, Matas and eventually Essengue. And Pat is a disruptive defender - a very disruptive defender - when he's healthy and engaged. But you can't count on that going into this year.

Not really the point though. The point is that is the model they are in the process of building. Not the model they have already built. This basically started in earnest 5 months ago.

Will be interesting to see how it works. It feels like Giddey + Coby are guys they want long term. To be successful, you will need Noa to hit. I like Noa as a prospect, but pretty dicey on whether he hits or how long it takes. A lot of our defensive guys so far outside of Matas feel like minor players, to make this model work you really need Matas to hit and Noa to hit. Matas feels more likely than not at this point.

The other thing that will be tricky here is if this is the plan, the plan doesn't generate a great playoff roster without a half court game that's going to have to figure out how to get in shooting here too which will be tricky while having disruptive defenders unless they're also shooters.

That said, a fun team that loses in the 1st round would still be a big improvement.

[SfBull]

What's the plan?
Suck for the next 5 years saying we're building something good

[dpucane]

What's the plan?
Suck for the next 5 years saying we're building something good

Sucking for a few years is actually a better plan than what they have right now.

[Chi town]

I think doubling down on pace combined with disruptive defense that gets turnovers for easy buckets is most important thing in all the quotes. Quite different than the layup line known as Vuc.

If they are able to be top 3 in pace and add in the turnover producing defense they will surprise and win a bunch more games than anticipated.

I could actually see Noa carving out a nice role by the end of his rookie season as the hyper defender coming off the bench aka Caruso in the past. I think Okoro will start.

It's interesting because we sure don't seem to have the personnel to be a disruptive defense that generates turnovers outside of Okoro.

We have several disruptive or projected disruptive defenders in Ayo, Okoro, Matas and eventually Essengue. And Pat is a disruptive defender - a very disruptive defender - when he's healthy and engaged. But you can't count on that going into this year.

Not really the point though. The point is that is the model they are in the process of building. Not the model they have already built. This basically started in earnest 5 months ago.

If it all works it will be interesting to see if the Bulls will be able to score in the half court enough in the playoffs. Improved D should help them compete but there is a lot less running in the playoffs and only Coby and hopefully Buz can get their own show. Will be years before Noa can get his own shot and Giddey may not ever be able to do it in the halfcourt.

I’m glad we have an identity and our building towards it but I still maintain AK wants to win instead of build a winner and I think this is a shortcut to make the playoffs but not win instead the playoffs and contend.

[sco]

It's interesting because we sure don't seem to have the personnel to be a disruptive defense that generates turnovers outside of Okoro.

We have several disruptive or projected disruptive defenders in Ayo, Okoro, Matas and eventually Essengue. And Pat is a disruptive defender - a very disruptive defender - when he's healthy and engaged. But you can't count on that going into this year.

Not really the point though. The point is that is the model they are in the process of building. Not the model they have already built. This basically started in earnest 5 months ago.

If it all works it will be interesting to see if the Bulls will be able to score in the half court enough in the playoffs. Improved D should help them compete but there is a lot less running in the playoffs and only Coby and hopefully Buz can get their own show. Will be years before Noa can get his own shot and Giddey may not ever be able to do it in the halfcourt.

I’m glad we have an identity and our building towards it but I still maintain AK wants to win instead of build a winner and I think this is a shortcut to make the playoffs but not win instead the playoffs and contend.

I agree, but had a contrary notion: "What if he feels that there just isn't a way short of tanking for 4+ seasons to build a contender?"

Many here would say, "well then, just tank". It's a fair point. That said, it may be more palatable to ownership to be good and give fans hope that they are just one guy away from contending.

[dougthonus]

I agree, but had a contrary notion: "What if he feels that there just isn't a way short of tanking for 4+ seasons to build a contender?"

Many here would say, "well then, just tank". It's a fair point. That said, it may be more palatable to ownership to be good and give fans hope that they are just one guy away from contending.

FWIW, I probably wouldn't start a plan on a rebuild where I didn't think I would see significant improvement by year 3. I wouldn't plan on purposefully hoping for miracle lottery odds by being really bad for more than two years.

Maybe the Bulls have done this, but it doesn't seem like they have, is look at guys and slot them in at future contract prices years down the road. Know whether you think you are going to keep Coby or Ayo (or in the past Vuc/Zach/DeMar/Caruso) and at what price you think you are, then look at what else you think you can add.

Assume you can never go into the tax. Then with that information, see what you can do to move more current assets into future assets in years that you don't think winning will be the primary goal. This is a process that would hope to force you to make future facing decisions and be real with yourself later. Like you're looking at the team from 1-3 years ago thinking "we have no room to add anyone to it, the team is going to get more expensive, we're presently not in the playoffs, most of our key contributors are old, we should be real and sell off those pieces now".

For different reasons, you should have had that thought already about Ayo / Coby last deadline knowing that you're going to enter a rebuild and looking at what a team looks like and whether those guys make sense to bring back at top of market UFA type contracts. The answer based on where we were, should have been probably not, and you should have probably moved those guys for future assets and then focused on Giddey, Matas, and whatever you were going to do in the draft (which also likely would have been more interesting had you moved Coby).

At any rate, it is what it is, but I think we are really bad at strategic planning.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[sco]

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Defense Camp! Nice...hope you regain your mojo!

[Muzbar]

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Defense Camp! Nice...hope you regain your mojo!

I love Ayo, one of my favourite players, I'm going to be upset when they trade him.

[Lunartic]

7 of the last 10 championship teams paid the luxury tax. Winning a title is cost-prohibitive to the Bulls and thus, they would rather be mediocre/good than actually great.

Logic would suggest they would focus on the cheaper option of building a team thru the draft but instead they trade away 2nd rounders for cash and have a knack for selling as low as possible on their players.

Just an awful franchise

[Chi town]

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Defense Camp! Nice...hope you regain your mojo!

I love Ayo, one of my favourite players, I'm going to be upset when they trade him.

I want to see Ayo in this offense with Giddey and Tre before trading him. I think he would thrive and may be more valuable than a player like Huerter.

Most likely he gets traded before training camp and we will never know.

[sco]

Defense Camp! Nice...hope you regain your mojo!

I love Ayo, one of my favourite players, I'm going to be upset when they trade him.

I want to see Ayo in this offense with Giddey and Tre before trading him. I think he would thrive and may be more valuable than a player like Huerter.

Most likely he gets traded before training camp and we will never know.

IDK, I don't think the Bulls are trading either guy before the deadline. I feel like most of the offseason trades are done. Also, Ayo is less likely to be traded due to him coming off a bad year and shoulder surgery.

I was rooting hard for him to figure it out, but whether it was him bulking-up or the shoulder, he really never even reached the level of defender he was as a rookie. He is very competent on offense, especially in the open court, but he never seemed to have a scoring focus. I think he might get one more shot this season.